Like so many others, my wife and I are cancelling our subscriptions and moving on.
A bit of feedback for Cryptic as well.
Lack of content and content variety at endgame is a gamebreaker. "Raidisodes" do not qualify by our definition as "content".
Weapons ceasing to fire, and abilities ceasing to function generally mid battle during spacefights is also a gamebreaker. Apparently this is a hard bug for Cryptic to track down, so I'll give you Devs a huge hint. I found I can reproduce this problem at will, and it's not the code, it's your UI interface that is the issue. You Devs might look into something called Scaleform, which would solve this and a whole hell of a lot of other interface issues.
Your Memory Alpha crafting system is not crafting. Not even close.
Skill point cap at 60700 was and is a poor idea. For that matter the whole skills system is shallow as water pooled in a plate. As ironic as it may sound, Anarchy Online has had the best character development system across all 16 MMOs I've played to date. Combining stats and skills plus implants and armor along with Shadowland and Alien Invasion perks to form a cohesive character was both indepth and intellectually stimulating and intriguing. More depth to character development in STO would have been nice. Your system by comparison to what I just described is simply terrible.
The lack of ship development is essentially the same as character development. Lack of interiors, functionality, heck you can't even sit in the captain's chair properly.
Space combat has reminded me and my wife on more than one occasion of a first person shooter as opposed to a MMORPG. Likewise, ground combat.
Combine all of the above with a general negligence on the part of your employee staff in various departments under different circumstances and ultimately you have a game that simply is not worth our time or funds to continue to support.
We won't be coming back..there's not enough here to warrant coming back to, and if your (Cryptic's) actions so far are any indication, there won't be any reason to come back later, either.
We won't be coming back..there's not enough here to warrant coming back to, and if your (Cryptic's) actions so far are any indication, there won't be any reason to come back later, either.
Cutting past the frustration and looking at the content of your discontent ... I wonder about this final statement.
For instance, one of the things you cite as lacking is that there are no interiors. So if they added interiors would that still be no reason to come back later?
You also cite a lack of ability to properly sit in the captain's chair. If they fixed this, would there still be no reason to come back later?
If they increased the level cap and the skill cap would there still be no reason to come back later?
Have you visited the engineering reports sub forum?
Anyways, interesting thread. I quit threads usually get locked. I did find some of your criticisms very insightful, but am worried that you missed out on some of the key points of this game's future before shutting the door so completely as you do in your last statement.
Lack of content and content variety at endgame is a gamebreaker. "Raidisodes" do not qualify by our definition as "content".
I've seen others cite this or something similar. While I would rather shove toothpicks in my eyes than do raidsodes (or whatever you want to call them, enforced group content is NOT my thing), it does certainly qualify as late game content.
Please, help me to understand:
What do you consider valid late game content? I'm honestly curious.
@Superchum: Even if they did add interiors, there's still too many other issues to warrant coming back. Way too many really. I put in the most major of things that came to mind since they were the ones that caused the most potential frustration and dislike. Truth is, there's quite a laundry list of other things that weren't of the same caliber or priority as those things I did mention.
I've looked over the Engineering Reports subforum..and honestly some of it is okay, some of it isn't. However I keep coming back to a couple of singularly negative issues. They released this Undine Terradome which is a raidisode anyway, and it was apparently fairly bug-ridden. I never attempted it personally so that's purely hearsay but there were quite a few negative threads about it. Hand in hand with that is the fact that as I pointed out earlier, these raidisode spectacles do not qualify as content by my definition. Then of course the other issue is the bugs like weapons ceasing to fire, abilities becoming nonfunctional, the rather finicky method that must be adhered to for joining teammates in exploration clusters, the associated bugs WITH joining teammates in those clusters, and so on..in short a whole lot of bugs that should have never made it out of beta.
I mean, you're in a pitched fight and suddenly..all your weapons on the front of your ship stop firing? That's acceptable to allow to slip over into live from beta? I mean, seriously..that should have been a priority bughunt before STO ever went to the shelves. Other times..it's a scenario where you're in a pitched fight, you use Engineering Team, Science Team, or something of a similar nature, and it doesn't go off..or you click on the button and the button doesn't indicated it's been activated. However if you move that hotkey by dragging it to another key on the bar and use it, it will almost always go off. Yet again, something that should have never left beta.
Insofar as this game's future..I don't see Cryptic having the marketing capacity, developmental strength or just the clout to make this work long term. Given STO and how they've treated players, the things they've done so far, (and not done!) the only reason I can see that City of Heroes / City of Villains was such a success was because of their ties to NCSoft.
With that said, if they ever were to actually flesh out and patch up STO to make it decent, it's still going to be too little too late. If you want a classic example of this, check Anarchy Online. Anarchy Online ended up (After Gaute Godager's transferral) becoming one hell of a good game..but it launched with a hellish amount of bugs and exploits, and honestly, Funcom caught hell over it and that reputation (thanks in no small part to a repeat with Age of Conan and ironically Gaute Godager again) they still cannot escape.
That is the future Cryptic is digging for themselves. CO = AO, and STO = AoC. Not identically, but conceptually in that both have had so much trouble, that people are going to lump Cryptic and Funcom into the same category even tho AO ended up being awesome, and it's minutely possible STO might also end up that way. Problem is, even if they do, the reputation is already there, and the golden window of opportunity will have passed..people will have left in too great of amounts for it to ever feel as if it's really flourishing. Instead it will be relegated to having that "niche game" sort of hollow feeling. And to compound that, other games are on the way, notably Secret World, Knights of the Old Republic, etc. With a reputation as described above, and in the face of appealing new titles, how well will Cryptic fare?
Not well I think. It more than likely won't die, but it will be one of those games like I described before..the "hollow" niche-game where there isn't a flourishing hustle and bustle of players coming and going and the like.
As for myself and the wife, my sig points the way.
Like so many others, my wife and I are cancelling our subscriptions and moving on.
[ Edited by Bramendor ]
Combine all of the above with a general negligence on the part of your employee staff in various departments under different circumstances and ultimately you have a game that simply is not worth our time or funds to continue to support.
We won't be coming back..there's not enough here to warrant coming back to, and if your (Cryptic's) actions so far are any indication, there won't be any reason to come back later, either.
QFT
I would quote the whole post but it would be to long. I feel like you do. Although I am not quitting... yet.
in regards to abilities ceasing to function, i do need to ask, do these happen in space? did they happen in pvp? did you get hit by any of the following : tricobalt torpedoes, tricobalt mines, photonic shockwave, viral matrix? if the answer is yes to these (the third question in particular) then its no bug. its called getting stunned or hit with vm.
as for weapons not firing, i can sympathize with you on that in the sense that its an issue with the update to space autofire. personally i just bound my "fire all energy weapons" to mouse4 so i can click that when i need to instead of doing fire and forget with the autofire. however, if once again this happened in pvp, are you sure people didnt hit you with target weapon subsystem? crazy as this is i have seen some that run around with high drain settings of that skill. in that vein, your weapons go offline either by the proc of the skill or just from the energy drain.
while its not "by your definition" any form of content, an STF in fact is. anything new added on, be it a new ship to buy at the c-store, an STF, or any actual change to the game, it still IS content. unfortunately, this is not a dimension where games have you as the center of their universe. instead, a rather broad majority with varying tastes. its in satisfying a majority of that majorities taste that games like this usually aim for. after all, an old saying goes "can't win 'em all"
a last point of curiosity is how you found space combat to be akin to an fps. my recollection of some core mechanics of fps combat involves sidestepping (which starships cant do), being able to backpedal at almost the same speed as your forward movement (which these starships cant do), crouching and in some cases going prone to give both better accuracy and concealment (to date, i have yet to see the sovereign class or a bird of prey crouch).
in any event, good journeys and may you find an mmo for you and your wife.
its called two pages of a grwon man crying about a video game
not having things his own way
and deluded enough to think that whining is "feedback" - or that any one cares
like a few others- they say they quit then the post and post and post
zzzzzz
Now, now, it's all right. No need to get upset because someone doesn't like something you like. Different strokes, and all that. It's no big deal. All that really matters is that YOU enjoy it. So, log in and have some fun. It's a beautiful day for fun!
I have seen one or two other people mention the weapons not firing bug. I personally have never run across it or if I have never enough to notice. Is it only when using auto fire (I don't use auto fire so that might be it)
Weapons ceasing to fire, and abilities ceasing to function generally mid battle during spacefights is also a gamebreaker. Apparently this is a hard bug for Cryptic to track down, so I'll give you Devs a huge hint. I found I can reproduce this problem at will, and it's not the code, it's your UI interface that is the issue. You Devs might look into something called Scaleform, which would solve this and a whole hell of a lot of other interface issues.
I find these problems very annoying as well, but the developers are aware of them and working on fixing them.
The lack of ship development is essentially the same as character development. Lack of interiors, functionality, heck you can't even sit in the captain's chair properly.
The ability to sit in a chair by simply clicking is scheduled to be added to the game within the month. Also, the devs have said they are working on adding ship interiors with functionality to the game.
Space combat has reminded me and my wife on more than one occasion of a first person shooter as opposed to a MMORPG. Likewise, ground combat.
Most people like the Space Combat portion of the game, and it is constantly touted as the best part of the game. Also, massive changes to ship powers and abilities are on the test server right now. Perhaps you might find the changes interesting.
Combine all of the above with a general negligence on the part of your employee staff in various departments under different circumstances and ultimately you have a game that simply is not worth our time or funds to continue to support.
Negligence? Negligence how? Several of the developers post and answer people's questions on the forums every day.
We won't be coming back..there's not enough here to warrant coming back to, and if your (Cryptic's) actions so far are any indication, there won't be any reason to come back later, either.
I'm sorry to hear that. Don't let the door CRIT you on the way out.
I have seen one or two other people mention the weapons not firing bug. I personally have never run across it or if I have never enough to notice. Is it only when using auto fire (I don't use auto fire so that might be it)
No, it happened to me when I wasn't using auto-fire....all beams quit working (torps still worked)....and I couldn't change directions. After being plinked down for about 5 minutes, it was almost a relief to fly into a group oif enemies....on respawn it had cleared up.
Only has happened the one time though.
I have never had any of my weapons on autofire because well..it never worked. I tried it..but after selecting it so it was in the green box..nothing occured whatsoever..no "autofiring" at all. For the progress of two RA5s I have either used the space bar, or individual weapons to fire. With that said, it isn't a issue of Viral Matrix, Tricobalt or anything similar. It's not a matter of being stunned, it's simply that weapons and skills cease to function. The reason for it is because the UI has too many keystrokes coming in at once and "jams" on one of those keystrokes and after that, refuses to clear itself. Recall if you will that all of your weapons sit on the hotkey bar in some fashion, and of course, spacebar fires them all, which accounts for some weapons just simply stopping. As I said in my initial post, I can reproduce this effect at will.
And yes the Devs are aware of it..and have been since beta. This should have never shipped with that kind of bug in place. Some bugs and issues I could understand slipping by, but this would be a priority to find since it basically can force a person into taking a death if the wrong set of weapons/skills get "jammed up". As such, I consider this negligence since the product shipped with this bug anyway.
Things in the C-Store are NOT content. Neither are the STFs..content is something that any player can take part in, without having to pony up MORE cash past their monthly fee, or having to have a 5 man group plus a raid mentality to take part in.
What is content? It's not only the missions (episodes) we've gotten so far but a whole new sector with planets that don't require you to have missions to enter the system..multiple planets per system you can land on, interact with NPCs and do various missions for..it's places where you can explore and be rewarded for that exploration because you found something "hidden" tucked away on a planet or in some nebula. STFs are only something that a limited percentage of the population will ever complete, due to time restraints, physical factors, or miscellaneous reasons. And due to that, they can't possibly qualify as content, only as additional outlets for those of a raiding mindset.
Insofar as the FPS issue goes..my wife and I both played Fallen Earth, and also Tabula Rasa when both were out, and the mechanics of STO are reminiscent of both games. It's not quite a FPS in the traditional sense of the word but it has elements that lend itself and so reminds us of one.
Side note..yes starships can backpedal..I did it quite often. Use Emergency Power to Engines and kick her in reverse. Same for Ramming Speed and Evasive Manuevers. Both will allow you to back up, or turn in a backwards spiral for the length of their buff rather speedily even if you are in a cruiser.
Finally, thank you..the wife and I have found something to sort of tide us over with some depth, but we are both intent on a MMO that has been in the works by a very dedicated developer and crew for about 7 years now. My sig basically gives it away, abeit in proper fashion given the MMO itself. (chuckle)
A "ton" of new content will likely be a couple of STFS (see above) and a few episodic missions. While the episodic missions quality as content by my way of thinking, STFs surely don't. And a few episodic missions are hardly a "ton".
Peregrine, they've known about the weapons/skill stopping bug since beta for crying out loud. It's been 3 months of live and they still haven't fixed it. This is a critical sort of thing, especially in the face of the new "difficulty slider" now. Instead we've gotten skins for new ships (only available through ponying up MORE cash) off-duty costumes, and a whole slew of other "fluff" things. Now I'm not against fluff..not at all, but things like the weapons/skills bug has to take priority. And Cryptic has shown it clearly doesn't. That's the kind of thing that screams negligence.
Memory Alpha. The way this is headed, it's never going to be a real crafting system. The best they can hope to do is quite spraying rosewater on a cow patty, and rip the whole thing out and start over with a completely different concept.
You're right..the skill cap is going to be raised..by half a rank and a lil bit extra. That is only a band-aid and doesn't address the problem that the skill point system was capless in beta, made sense in beta and was capped near the end which completely redarded the whole functionality of the system. Raising the cap doesn't solve the problem, it only medicates the symptoms.
For the bit about the captain's chair..it's a fluff thing, and I said I like fluff..it was a afterthought because besides the bridge being as useless as teats on a boar, you can't even properly sit in the captain's chair. Consider this more of a ironic thing than a real issue.
When I said the space combat in the game reminds us of a FPS..that wasn't derogatory or a insult..I personally like FPS..enjoyed PVP in Fallen Earth and in some of the more traditional shooters, it's just that after a while you figure tactics out to destroy almost everything space battle wise you come across, and it becomes sort of bland and repetitive after that.
Negligence. Find a user named Jacobflowers on the forums here and check for a post in which Ivan from marketing repeat posts in it. There's a shiner of a example. Also, if for whatever reasons you're are being griefed in game, and petition about it...you gert a email from Cryptic rather than actual GM support. And when your tickets DO get answered, sometimes they aren't even read and just given a form response and shot back to you. Then there's a ton of the bugs and glitches in the game that developers have let just slide on by. And these are only a few examples..alot of the stuff is just more indepth, than I care or feel proper to go into here on the forums. Suffice to say, it's far reaching,and pervasive.
Door crit me on the way out? Yeah right. TRIBBLE that..I'm taking the door WITH ME on the way out.
There are two types of people on this forum. Both are good people, but they are differnt.
The first type recognize that this game sucks. That Cryptic's new business plan is to crank out as many low budget mmos as possible and rake in the cash with little cash out. Kinda like making tons of money making B movies and hoping one becomes a cult classic.
- These type of people either quietly regret their choice and quit or become upset, vent, then quit.
I fall into this group.
The other type of person is in denial about how bad this game sucks. Either because they are defensive about how they spent their money or maybe they have never played an mmo before. For whatever reason they are convinced that this game is G R EA T !
- These type either flame others with 'feed back' or They post pure positive love notes to Cryptic.
To these types of people I must say that I value your opinion but I think you are wrong.
Interestingly you can see both types on this thread.
A "ton" of new content will likely be a couple of STFS (see above) and a few episodic missions. While the episodic missions quality as content by my way of thinking, STFs surely don't. And a few episodic missions are hardly a "ton".
You can foresee the future now? Please kind sir, what are next weeks lottery numbers?
Peregrine, they've known about the weapons/skill stopping bug since beta for crying out loud. It's been 3 months of live and they still haven't fixed it. This is a critical sort of thing, especially in the face of the new "difficulty slider" now. Instead we've gotten skins for new ships (only available through ponying up MORE cash) off-duty costumes, and a whole slew of other "fluff" things.
They've already said they've had problems fixing the bug. Look, the mission team works on making missions, and the art team works on all of that fluff junk that they add to the C-Store. Just because they've added more junk fluff to the C-Store doesn't mean that the mission team is on vacation.
Memory Alpha. The way this is headed, it's never going to be a real crafting system. The best they can hope to do is quite spraying rosewater on a cow patty, and rip the whole thing out and start over with a completely different concept.
I agree with you, the Memory Alpha crafting system is TRIBBLE. And now that they've improved it a little it's TRIBBLE on toast. But at least they know it and plan to work on it more later.
Negligence. Find a user named Jacobflowers on the forums here and check for a post in which Ivan from marketing repeat posts in it.
I've known Jacob for years now, and maybe you didn't notice but I posted in that (now locked) thread. I easily countered every point that Ivan attempted to make and rather than respond to me he ran off and hid under his desk.
You can foresee the future now? Please kind sir, what are next weeks lottery numbers?
You'll notice the word "likely" in the part you quoted. Take as a example, the recent "content" that was added (or is soon to be added) for Klingons..I think it was what...3-4 episodic missions? It's a given that the Klingon faction is so underdeveloped it's atrophied. And 3-4 episodic misisons are supposed to help? Well..I guess technically every raindrop in a barrel fills it slowly, but as many others have indicated, there's just not enough to warrant continuing to play a Klingon and they have either quit playing their Klingon character or just left the game alltogether.
Regardless, it's this approach that does not leave me with a positive outlook on the state of what Cryptic will add by way of new "content".
They've already said they've had problems fixing the bug. Look, the mission team works on making missions, and the art team works on all of that fluff junk that they add to the C-Store. Just because they've added more junk fluff to the C-Store doesn't mean that the mission team is on vacation.
I have to ask. What does the mission team or art team have to do with a interface bug that stops skills / weapons from firing? Like you said, art team does art, mission team does missions. This is a issue that pertains to neither. It is a core mechanics bug instead.
I agree with you, the Memory Alpha crafting system is TRIBBLE. And now that they've improved it a little it's TRIBBLE on toast. But at least they know it and plan to work on it more later.
I prefer grape jelly on my toast, but that's just me.
I've known Jacob for years now, and maybe you didn't notice but I posted in that (now locked) thread. I easily countered every point that Ivan attempted to make and rather than respond to me he ran off and hid under his desk.
That's precisely my point. To me that's accountable as nothing short of negligence, and yes I saw your post, and for most part I agreed with you.
LoL! Ok, well peace brother. I hope that you at least come back for a bit in August and try out the new changes.
/shrug. Doubt it..I suspect the MMO I'm waiting for will be out by then. And as things go, the question does have to be asked, "What state will STO be in by August?"
A ton of new content is scheduled to be added to the game with the Season 2 patch in July.
What constitutes a "ton"? Personally I'm only interested in Klngon content, and see very little of that. Cryptic never seems to quantify their remarks - "Klingon character customization is coming in Season 2" - okay, how much, what are we looking at here, a couple of pairs fo shoes or a full set of off-duty clothing?
The ability to sit in a chair by simply clicking is scheduled to be added to the game within the month. Also, the devs have said they are working on adding ship interiors with functionality to the game.
Might be important to some people, but with Klingons lacking so much basic content it's so low on my list it may be in China.
Most people like the Space Combat portion of the game, and it is constantly touted as the best part of the game. Also, massive changes to ship powers and abilities are on the test server right now. Perhaps you might find the changes interesting.
The space combat system is even less believable than the ground combat system. Weapons fire 10 km. A ship traveling at one TENTH light speed goes 30,000 km per second. It would be in and out of weapon range in 1/7500 second. Ships fly like biplanes, except that they can't loop or roll, so the aerobatics are really lame and the effects of this show in combat. But these are SHIPS not airplanes. Ranges should be measured in tens of thousands of km, if not hundreds of thousands. At that range aerobatics become meaningless. The ability to spin on the long axis however, is relatively important. Captains should fight their ship from the BRIDGE or a combat information center. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Information_Center
Negligence? Negligence how? Several of the developers post and answer people's questions on the forums every day.
The lack of communications is glaring. They post TRIBBLE about fluff like skirts and sitting in chairs, and the posts by devs number what, 5-10 per day? Jackalope, the "Klingon dev" hasn't posted since April 9th. Where are the posts about Cryptic's vision for Klingons? How about a Cryptic led discussion on PvP improvements? How about a Cryptic led discusion on ANYTHING of substance? I think the devs are rightfully ashamed of STO and avoid talking about it, and that Cryptic lacks a plan/vision and jumps from subject to subject in knee jerk reaction.
Your opinions, priorities and assessments of STO/Cryptic are different than mine, and you are entitled to them. I don't expect you to agree with mine, just don't expect me to jump on the "STO is all that and then some" band wagon. {{;-) (Klingon emote for "have a nice day to die")
Your opinions, priorities and assessments of STO/Cryptic are different than mine, and you are entitled to them. I don't expect you to agree with mine, just don't expect me to jump on the "STO is all that and then some" band wagon. {{;-) (Klingon emote for "have a nice day to die")
Actually I agree with pretty much everything you've said. But you didn't know that because you don't see me spamming the forums with "ZOMG!!! Cryptic is teh FAILBOAT!!!!!eleventyone111!!!!" threads.
I'm not saying that you do that, but a lot of people do that.
Right now I think that the game is about 2 degrees from suckage. But I've got a lifetime subscription, so I'm patiently waiting for them to get done fixing and breaking and refixing everything and adding new content. When they finally get done with all of that I think that STO will be a great game.
But you'll get no argument from me that it isn't there yet.
Things in the C-Store are NOT content. Neither are the STFs..content is something that any player can take part in, without having to pony up MORE cash past their monthly fee, or having to have a 5 man group plus a raid mentality to take part in.
the thing about this is, you nitpicked on what content is. seriously, in mmos, and even most other games, content is pretty much anything new added onto the game, regardless of whether or not its cosmetic, all inclusive/exclusive, or gameplay changing.
as far as not needing to pony up more cash, thats a case by case thing. in MMOs i agree that they shouldnt. but you know whats inside those expansions in WoW that people buy? CONTENT! good lord, theyre paying more cash past their monthly fee to have this! you know what those map packs, costume packs, mission packs that are pretty much standard fair for console games? theyre downloadable CONTENT!
Side note..yes starships can backpedal..I did it quite often. Use Emergency Power to Engines and kick her in reverse. Same for Ramming Speed and Evasive Manuevers. Both will allow you to back up, or turn in a backwards spiral for the length of their buff rather speedily even if you are in a cruiser.
you seem to have only read half of what i said so lemme repeat and bold out the part you ommitted
being able to backpedal at almost the same speed as your forward movement (which these starships cant do)
see, i never said they can't backpedal, did i? they just cant in any speed relatively close to their forward movement. using batteries and popping it in reverse is not the same thing, as batteries, ramming, or evasive in a forward movement is still significantly faster than batteries, ramming, or evasive in a backwards motion.
Finally, thank you..the wife and I have found something to sort of tide us over with some depth, but we are both intent on a MMO that has been in the works by a very dedicated developer and crew for about 7 years now. My sig basically gives it away, abeit in proper fashion given the MMO itself. (chuckle)
its good to hear that you found yourself a different venue. though, this is a rather harsh way to nitpick at STO over the new one you're migrating to. i don't know if you followed STO before it went live so i thought i'd ask you this : you do know that due to a severe magnifying glass of scrutiny, Cryptic only had 2 or so years to make this game right? given that, i do hope this one thats had 7 years to be fleshed out works for you. for me, i think STO is a fairly great game given its short development cycle, and any changes made to it from here on out could only serve to move it forward.
After reading this thread I wanted to let the contributors know how useful and well thought out it has been for me personally. I seem to find myself seeking out "I quit" threads. I suppose it is to justify my reasoning for leaving without actually having to think. This thread, while at times slightly heated, has been very open from both points of view. My reason for quitting was less detailed.
This is the first MMO I have ever played. The experience for me overall seemed to underwhelm. The space combat is fun, but thats about all I ever enjoyed. PvP=not fun for me (Honestly, I just wasn't that good at it). Exploration=never really felt involved or driven towards it. Story=o.k.. I never joined a fleet so any fleet actions were hit or miss. Beat Crystalline once.
I think both sides are right, but it feels like a race to see which happens first. Will the quality of new content and fixes rejuvenate the fan base and in return increase subscriptions or will it be too late?
At this point I really believe that a majority of players are less than satisfied. Sadly Cryptic needs to be on these forums in force to try and sell the game to the people who have already paid for it, and I personally don't see that happening. Yes, the Engineering reports are nice, but just not enough. They have quite a few people here who really want this game to be great. They need to connect with them, and do it publicly here. (I mean the forum in general by "here") I think this thread would be a great place for a Cryptic rep of some sort to talk to a disgruntled player. Sure, the "we can't directly respond to EVERY I quit thread" could be argued. But this one isn't the norm. The arguments from both sides are valid. So why not? Maybe the OP's door isn't completely shut, maybe mine isn't.
Like so many others, my wife and I are cancelling our subscriptions and moving on.
A bit of feedback for Cryptic as well.
Lack of content and content variety at endgame is a gamebreaker. "Raidisodes" do not qualify by our definition as "content".
Weapons ceasing to fire, and abilities ceasing to function generally mid battle during spacefights is also a gamebreaker. Apparently this is a hard bug for Cryptic to track down, so I'll give you Devs a huge hint. I found I can reproduce this problem at will, and it's not the code, it's your UI interface that is the issue. You Devs might look into something called Scaleform, which would solve this and a whole hell of a lot of other interface issues.
Your Memory Alpha crafting system is not crafting. Not even close.
Skill point cap at 60700 was and is a poor idea. For that matter the whole skills system is shallow as water pooled in a plate. As ironic as it may sound, Anarchy Online has had the best character development system across all 16 MMOs I've played to date. Combining stats and skills plus implants and armor along with Shadowland and Alien Invasion perks to form a cohesive character was both indepth and intellectually stimulating and intriguing. More depth to character development in STO would have been nice. Your system by comparison to what I just described is simply terrible.
The lack of ship development is essentially the same as character development. Lack of interiors, functionality, heck you can't even sit in the captain's chair properly.
Space combat has reminded me and my wife on more than one occasion of a first person shooter as opposed to a MMORPG. Likewise, ground combat.
Combine all of the above with a general negligence on the part of your employee staff in various departments under different circumstances and ultimately you have a game that simply is not worth our time or funds to continue to support.
We won't be coming back..there's not enough here to warrant coming back to, and if your (Cryptic's) actions so far are any indication, there won't be any reason to come back later, either.
Sorry to hear that, hopefully you reconsider and return once Season 2 rolls around.
Okay, read the thread, and I'm very curious about what the "end content" would be? Episodes that one could only play once RA5 is reached? If so, that's easy to do. Just rescale the missions and have fewer missions for below ranks.
Obviously, that's not what the OP is intending, but I can't really see much difference. So what would it be? Big Bad Boss? Sounds like a raidisode or whatever people are calling it. A mission needing 10+ people to complete? Sounds like a Fleet action. Go rescue some Romulan ships trapped in an anomaly? Sounds like a mission.
Okay, read the thread, and I'm very curious about what the "end content" would be? Episodes that one could only play once RA5 is reached? If so, that's easy to do. Just rescale the missions and have fewer missions for below ranks.
Obviously, that's not what the OP is intending, but I can't really see much difference. So what would it be? Big Bad Boss? Sounds like a raidisode or whatever people are calling it. A mission needing 10+ people to complete? Sounds like a Fleet action. Go rescue some Romulan ships trapped in an anomaly? Sounds like a mission.
Is all that is being asked for? More missions?
I've given it a lot of thought and near as I can figure, I think when people accepted the Fire Caves mission on Deep Space 9, they were very very distraught to find out that the Pah Wraiths didn't look like THIS GUY
I am sorry to hear that STO is not providing you with an adequate level of entertainment. As always, we will continue to do our best to improve the game and will continue to provide regular updates. Please continue checking on our progress; hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Weapons ceasing to fire, and abilities ceasing to function generally mid battle during spacefights is also a gamebreaker. Apparently this is a hard bug for Cryptic to track down, so I'll give you Devs a huge hint. I found I can reproduce this problem at will, and it's not the code, it's your UI interface that is the issue. You Devs might look into something called Scaleform, which would solve this and a whole hell of a lot of other interface issues.
You are correct - this is a tough bug. I was hoping the underline "at will" would be a link to reproduction steps, but alas, it was only formatting. What do you mean specifically by it being the UI? Can anyone elaborate on this?
Well OP at least you weren't stupid enough to buy a lifetime sub and...
....
... damnit.
I am in your boat or Ship if you will. Life is too short for regrets but work is to long to waste money on bad games. I hope the StarWars mmo will be decent.
Originally Posted by Lt.Expendable
Well OP at least you weren't stupid enough to buy a lifetime sub and...
....
... damnit.
I am in your boat or Ship if you will. Life is too short for regrets but work is to long to waste money on bad games. I hope the StarWars mmo will be decent.
^^^^^
You guys could always try for/request a pro-rated refund. I'm liking this game a lot atm, and also like the direction it's heading content wise.
As for SW:ToR, I honestly hope it'll be good too (more Sci-Fi based MMOs is great imo - so sicked and tired of the glut of tolkienesque fantasy MMOs), but I was disheartened to read they will be no player ships or player in space travel or combat via personal ships (only closet thing I could state to what I'm talking about is the old SWG MMOs 'Jump to Lightspeed). Boiware has only stated they are 'aware' potential players are 'interested' in this aspect. So, SWToR does seem more like "WoW as Science Fiction and with Light Sabers).
Comments
a frumpy couple
and a dork old enough to be married but not to not complain about a video game
lol
Can't say as i disagree with their assessment.
Cutting past the frustration and looking at the content of your discontent ... I wonder about this final statement.
For instance, one of the things you cite as lacking is that there are no interiors. So if they added interiors would that still be no reason to come back later?
You also cite a lack of ability to properly sit in the captain's chair. If they fixed this, would there still be no reason to come back later?
If they increased the level cap and the skill cap would there still be no reason to come back later?
Have you visited the engineering reports sub forum?
Anyways, interesting thread. I quit threads usually get locked. I did find some of your criticisms very insightful, but am worried that you missed out on some of the key points of this game's future before shutting the door so completely as you do in your last statement.
I've seen others cite this or something similar. While I would rather shove toothpicks in my eyes than do raidsodes (or whatever you want to call them, enforced group content is NOT my thing), it does certainly qualify as late game content.
Please, help me to understand:
What do you consider valid late game content? I'm honestly curious.
@Superchum: Even if they did add interiors, there's still too many other issues to warrant coming back. Way too many really. I put in the most major of things that came to mind since they were the ones that caused the most potential frustration and dislike. Truth is, there's quite a laundry list of other things that weren't of the same caliber or priority as those things I did mention.
I've looked over the Engineering Reports subforum..and honestly some of it is okay, some of it isn't. However I keep coming back to a couple of singularly negative issues. They released this Undine Terradome which is a raidisode anyway, and it was apparently fairly bug-ridden. I never attempted it personally so that's purely hearsay but there were quite a few negative threads about it. Hand in hand with that is the fact that as I pointed out earlier, these raidisode spectacles do not qualify as content by my definition. Then of course the other issue is the bugs like weapons ceasing to fire, abilities becoming nonfunctional, the rather finicky method that must be adhered to for joining teammates in exploration clusters, the associated bugs WITH joining teammates in those clusters, and so on..in short a whole lot of bugs that should have never made it out of beta.
I mean, you're in a pitched fight and suddenly..all your weapons on the front of your ship stop firing? That's acceptable to allow to slip over into live from beta? I mean, seriously..that should have been a priority bughunt before STO ever went to the shelves. Other times..it's a scenario where you're in a pitched fight, you use Engineering Team, Science Team, or something of a similar nature, and it doesn't go off..or you click on the button and the button doesn't indicated it's been activated. However if you move that hotkey by dragging it to another key on the bar and use it, it will almost always go off. Yet again, something that should have never left beta.
Insofar as this game's future..I don't see Cryptic having the marketing capacity, developmental strength or just the clout to make this work long term. Given STO and how they've treated players, the things they've done so far, (and not done!) the only reason I can see that City of Heroes / City of Villains was such a success was because of their ties to NCSoft.
With that said, if they ever were to actually flesh out and patch up STO to make it decent, it's still going to be too little too late. If you want a classic example of this, check Anarchy Online. Anarchy Online ended up (After Gaute Godager's transferral) becoming one hell of a good game..but it launched with a hellish amount of bugs and exploits, and honestly, Funcom caught hell over it and that reputation (thanks in no small part to a repeat with Age of Conan and ironically Gaute Godager again) they still cannot escape.
That is the future Cryptic is digging for themselves. CO = AO, and STO = AoC. Not identically, but conceptually in that both have had so much trouble, that people are going to lump Cryptic and Funcom into the same category even tho AO ended up being awesome, and it's minutely possible STO might also end up that way. Problem is, even if they do, the reputation is already there, and the golden window of opportunity will have passed..people will have left in too great of amounts for it to ever feel as if it's really flourishing. Instead it will be relegated to having that "niche game" sort of hollow feeling. And to compound that, other games are on the way, notably Secret World, Knights of the Old Republic, etc. With a reputation as described above, and in the face of appealing new titles, how well will Cryptic fare?
Not well I think. It more than likely won't die, but it will be one of those games like I described before..the "hollow" niche-game where there isn't a flourishing hustle and bustle of players coming and going and the like.
As for myself and the wife, my sig points the way.
QFT
I would quote the whole post but it would be to long. I feel like you do. Although I am not quitting... yet.
lol
its called two pages of a grwon man crying about a video game
not having things his own way
and deluded enough to think that whining is "feedback" - or that any one cares
like a few others- they say they quit then the post and post and post
zzzzzz
as for weapons not firing, i can sympathize with you on that in the sense that its an issue with the update to space autofire. personally i just bound my "fire all energy weapons" to mouse4 so i can click that when i need to instead of doing fire and forget with the autofire. however, if once again this happened in pvp, are you sure people didnt hit you with target weapon subsystem? crazy as this is i have seen some that run around with high drain settings of that skill. in that vein, your weapons go offline either by the proc of the skill or just from the energy drain.
while its not "by your definition" any form of content, an STF in fact is. anything new added on, be it a new ship to buy at the c-store, an STF, or any actual change to the game, it still IS content. unfortunately, this is not a dimension where games have you as the center of their universe. instead, a rather broad majority with varying tastes. its in satisfying a majority of that majorities taste that games like this usually aim for. after all, an old saying goes "can't win 'em all"
a last point of curiosity is how you found space combat to be akin to an fps. my recollection of some core mechanics of fps combat involves sidestepping (which starships cant do), being able to backpedal at almost the same speed as your forward movement (which these starships cant do), crouching and in some cases going prone to give both better accuracy and concealment (to date, i have yet to see the sovereign class or a bird of prey crouch).
in any event, good journeys and may you find an mmo for you and your wife.
Now, now, it's all right. No need to get upset because someone doesn't like something you like. Different strokes, and all that. It's no big deal. All that really matters is that YOU enjoy it. So, log in and have some fun. It's a beautiful day for fun!
I find these problems very annoying as well, but the developers are aware of them and working on fixing them.
I agree. But the developers have added recent improvements to the crafting system, and they have said more are coming.
The skill cap is scheduled to be raised in July with the Season 2 update.
The ability to sit in a chair by simply clicking is scheduled to be added to the game within the month. Also, the devs have said they are working on adding ship interiors with functionality to the game.
Most people like the Space Combat portion of the game, and it is constantly touted as the best part of the game. Also, massive changes to ship powers and abilities are on the test server right now. Perhaps you might find the changes interesting.
Negligence? Negligence how? Several of the developers post and answer people's questions on the forums every day.
I'm sorry to hear that. Don't let the door CRIT you on the way out.
No, it happened to me when I wasn't using auto-fire....all beams quit working (torps still worked)....and I couldn't change directions. After being plinked down for about 5 minutes, it was almost a relief to fly into a group oif enemies....on respawn it had cleared up.
Only has happened the one time though.
@NinJarate:
I have never had any of my weapons on autofire because well..it never worked. I tried it..but after selecting it so it was in the green box..nothing occured whatsoever..no "autofiring" at all. For the progress of two RA5s I have either used the space bar, or individual weapons to fire. With that said, it isn't a issue of Viral Matrix, Tricobalt or anything similar. It's not a matter of being stunned, it's simply that weapons and skills cease to function. The reason for it is because the UI has too many keystrokes coming in at once and "jams" on one of those keystrokes and after that, refuses to clear itself. Recall if you will that all of your weapons sit on the hotkey bar in some fashion, and of course, spacebar fires them all, which accounts for some weapons just simply stopping. As I said in my initial post, I can reproduce this effect at will.
And yes the Devs are aware of it..and have been since beta. This should have never shipped with that kind of bug in place. Some bugs and issues I could understand slipping by, but this would be a priority to find since it basically can force a person into taking a death if the wrong set of weapons/skills get "jammed up". As such, I consider this negligence since the product shipped with this bug anyway.
Things in the C-Store are NOT content. Neither are the STFs..content is something that any player can take part in, without having to pony up MORE cash past their monthly fee, or having to have a 5 man group plus a raid mentality to take part in.
What is content? It's not only the missions (episodes) we've gotten so far but a whole new sector with planets that don't require you to have missions to enter the system..multiple planets per system you can land on, interact with NPCs and do various missions for..it's places where you can explore and be rewarded for that exploration because you found something "hidden" tucked away on a planet or in some nebula. STFs are only something that a limited percentage of the population will ever complete, due to time restraints, physical factors, or miscellaneous reasons. And due to that, they can't possibly qualify as content, only as additional outlets for those of a raiding mindset.
Insofar as the FPS issue goes..my wife and I both played Fallen Earth, and also Tabula Rasa when both were out, and the mechanics of STO are reminiscent of both games. It's not quite a FPS in the traditional sense of the word but it has elements that lend itself and so reminds us of one.
Side note..yes starships can backpedal..I did it quite often. Use Emergency Power to Engines and kick her in reverse. Same for Ramming Speed and Evasive Manuevers. Both will allow you to back up, or turn in a backwards spiral for the length of their buff rather speedily even if you are in a cruiser.
Finally, thank you..the wife and I have found something to sort of tide us over with some depth, but we are both intent on a MMO that has been in the works by a very dedicated developer and crew for about 7 years now. My sig basically gives it away, abeit in proper fashion given the MMO itself. (chuckle)
@Peregrine_Falcon
A "ton" of new content will likely be a couple of STFS (see above) and a few episodic missions. While the episodic missions quality as content by my way of thinking, STFs surely don't. And a few episodic missions are hardly a "ton".
Peregrine, they've known about the weapons/skill stopping bug since beta for crying out loud. It's been 3 months of live and they still haven't fixed it. This is a critical sort of thing, especially in the face of the new "difficulty slider" now. Instead we've gotten skins for new ships (only available through ponying up MORE cash) off-duty costumes, and a whole slew of other "fluff" things. Now I'm not against fluff..not at all, but things like the weapons/skills bug has to take priority. And Cryptic has shown it clearly doesn't. That's the kind of thing that screams negligence.
Memory Alpha. The way this is headed, it's never going to be a real crafting system. The best they can hope to do is quite spraying rosewater on a cow patty, and rip the whole thing out and start over with a completely different concept.
You're right..the skill cap is going to be raised..by half a rank and a lil bit extra. That is only a band-aid and doesn't address the problem that the skill point system was capless in beta, made sense in beta and was capped near the end which completely redarded the whole functionality of the system. Raising the cap doesn't solve the problem, it only medicates the symptoms.
For the bit about the captain's chair..it's a fluff thing, and I said I like fluff..it was a afterthought because besides the bridge being as useless as teats on a boar, you can't even properly sit in the captain's chair. Consider this more of a ironic thing than a real issue.
When I said the space combat in the game reminds us of a FPS..that wasn't derogatory or a insult..I personally like FPS..enjoyed PVP in Fallen Earth and in some of the more traditional shooters, it's just that after a while you figure tactics out to destroy almost everything space battle wise you come across, and it becomes sort of bland and repetitive after that.
Negligence. Find a user named Jacobflowers on the forums here and check for a post in which Ivan from marketing repeat posts in it. There's a shiner of a example. Also, if for whatever reasons you're are being griefed in game, and petition about it...you gert a email from Cryptic rather than actual GM support. And when your tickets DO get answered, sometimes they aren't even read and just given a form response and shot back to you. Then there's a ton of the bugs and glitches in the game that developers have let just slide on by. And these are only a few examples..alot of the stuff is just more indepth, than I care or feel proper to go into here on the forums. Suffice to say, it's far reaching,and pervasive.
Door crit me on the way out? Yeah right. TRIBBLE that..I'm taking the door WITH ME on the way out.
The first type recognize that this game sucks. That Cryptic's new business plan is to crank out as many low budget mmos as possible and rake in the cash with little cash out. Kinda like making tons of money making B movies and hoping one becomes a cult classic.
- These type of people either quietly regret their choice and quit or become upset, vent, then quit.
I fall into this group.
The other type of person is in denial about how bad this game sucks. Either because they are defensive about how they spent their money or maybe they have never played an mmo before. For whatever reason they are convinced that this game is G R E A T !
- These type either flame others with 'feed back' or They post pure positive love notes to Cryptic.
To these types of people I must say that I value your opinion but I think you are wrong.
Interestingly you can see both types on this thread.
They've already said they've had problems fixing the bug. Look, the mission team works on making missions, and the art team works on all of that fluff junk that they add to the C-Store. Just because they've added more junk fluff to the C-Store doesn't mean that the mission team is on vacation.
I agree with you, the Memory Alpha crafting system is TRIBBLE. And now that they've improved it a little it's TRIBBLE on toast. But at least they know it and plan to work on it more later.
I've known Jacob for years now, and maybe you didn't notice but I posted in that (now locked) thread. I easily countered every point that Ivan attempted to make and rather than respond to me he ran off and hid under his desk.
LoL! Ok, well peace brother. I hope that you at least come back for a bit in August and try out the new changes.
You'll notice the word "likely" in the part you quoted. Take as a example, the recent "content" that was added (or is soon to be added) for Klingons..I think it was what...3-4 episodic missions? It's a given that the Klingon faction is so underdeveloped it's atrophied. And 3-4 episodic misisons are supposed to help? Well..I guess technically every raindrop in a barrel fills it slowly, but as many others have indicated, there's just not enough to warrant continuing to play a Klingon and they have either quit playing their Klingon character or just left the game alltogether.
Regardless, it's this approach that does not leave me with a positive outlook on the state of what Cryptic will add by way of new "content".
I have to ask. What does the mission team or art team have to do with a interface bug that stops skills / weapons from firing? Like you said, art team does art, mission team does missions. This is a issue that pertains to neither. It is a core mechanics bug instead.
I prefer grape jelly on my toast, but that's just me.
That's precisely my point. To me that's accountable as nothing short of negligence, and yes I saw your post, and for most part I agreed with you.
/shrug. Doubt it..I suspect the MMO I'm waiting for will be out by then. And as things go, the question does have to be asked, "What state will STO be in by August?"
What constitutes a "ton"? Personally I'm only interested in Klngon content, and see very little of that. Cryptic never seems to quantify their remarks - "Klingon character customization is coming in Season 2" - okay, how much, what are we looking at here, a couple of pairs fo shoes or a full set of off-duty clothing?
Trading items and data samples for better items is trading, not crafting IMO. When do the Klingons get this improved "crafting"?
Might be important to some people, but with Klingons lacking so much basic content it's so low on my list it may be in China.
The space combat system is even less believable than the ground combat system. Weapons fire 10 km. A ship traveling at one TENTH light speed goes 30,000 km per second. It would be in and out of weapon range in 1/7500 second. Ships fly like biplanes, except that they can't loop or roll, so the aerobatics are really lame and the effects of this show in combat. But these are SHIPS not airplanes. Ranges should be measured in tens of thousands of km, if not hundreds of thousands. At that range aerobatics become meaningless. The ability to spin on the long axis however, is relatively important. Captains should fight their ship from the BRIDGE or a combat information center. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Information_Center
The lack of communications is glaring. They post TRIBBLE about fluff like skirts and sitting in chairs, and the posts by devs number what, 5-10 per day? Jackalope, the "Klingon dev" hasn't posted since April 9th. Where are the posts about Cryptic's vision for Klingons? How about a Cryptic led discussion on PvP improvements? How about a Cryptic led discusion on ANYTHING of substance? I think the devs are rightfully ashamed of STO and avoid talking about it, and that Cryptic lacks a plan/vision and jumps from subject to subject in knee jerk reaction.
Your opinions, priorities and assessments of STO/Cryptic are different than mine, and you are entitled to them. I don't expect you to agree with mine, just don't expect me to jump on the "STO is all that and then some" band wagon. {{;-) (Klingon emote for "have a nice day to die")
I'm not saying that you do that, but a lot of people do that.
Right now I think that the game is about 2 degrees from suckage. But I've got a lifetime subscription, so I'm patiently waiting for them to get done fixing and breaking and refixing everything and adding new content. When they finally get done with all of that I think that STO will be a great game.
But you'll get no argument from me that it isn't there yet.
the thing about this is, you nitpicked on what content is. seriously, in mmos, and even most other games, content is pretty much anything new added onto the game, regardless of whether or not its cosmetic, all inclusive/exclusive, or gameplay changing.
as far as not needing to pony up more cash, thats a case by case thing. in MMOs i agree that they shouldnt. but you know whats inside those expansions in WoW that people buy? CONTENT! good lord, theyre paying more cash past their monthly fee to have this! you know what those map packs, costume packs, mission packs that are pretty much standard fair for console games? theyre downloadable CONTENT!
you seem to have only read half of what i said so lemme repeat and bold out the part you ommitted
see, i never said they can't backpedal, did i? they just cant in any speed relatively close to their forward movement. using batteries and popping it in reverse is not the same thing, as batteries, ramming, or evasive in a forward movement is still significantly faster than batteries, ramming, or evasive in a backwards motion.
its good to hear that you found yourself a different venue. though, this is a rather harsh way to nitpick at STO over the new one you're migrating to. i don't know if you followed STO before it went live so i thought i'd ask you this : you do know that due to a severe magnifying glass of scrutiny, Cryptic only had 2 or so years to make this game right? given that, i do hope this one thats had 7 years to be fleshed out works for you. for me, i think STO is a fairly great game given its short development cycle, and any changes made to it from here on out could only serve to move it forward.
This is the first MMO I have ever played. The experience for me overall seemed to underwhelm. The space combat is fun, but thats about all I ever enjoyed. PvP=not fun for me (Honestly, I just wasn't that good at it). Exploration=never really felt involved or driven towards it. Story=o.k.. I never joined a fleet so any fleet actions were hit or miss. Beat Crystalline once.
I think both sides are right, but it feels like a race to see which happens first. Will the quality of new content and fixes rejuvenate the fan base and in return increase subscriptions or will it be too late?
At this point I really believe that a majority of players are less than satisfied. Sadly Cryptic needs to be on these forums in force to try and sell the game to the people who have already paid for it, and I personally don't see that happening. Yes, the Engineering reports are nice, but just not enough. They have quite a few people here who really want this game to be great. They need to connect with them, and do it publicly here. (I mean the forum in general by "here") I think this thread would be a great place for a Cryptic rep of some sort to talk to a disgruntled player. Sure, the "we can't directly respond to EVERY I quit thread" could be argued. But this one isn't the norm. The arguments from both sides are valid. So why not? Maybe the OP's door isn't completely shut, maybe mine isn't.
Sorry to hear that, hopefully you reconsider and return once Season 2 rolls around.
Obviously, that's not what the OP is intending, but I can't really see much difference. So what would it be? Big Bad Boss? Sounds like a raidisode or whatever people are calling it. A mission needing 10+ people to complete? Sounds like a Fleet action. Go rescue some Romulan ships trapped in an anomaly? Sounds like a mission.
Is all that is being asked for? More missions?
I've given it a lot of thought and near as I can figure, I think when people accepted the Fire Caves mission on Deep Space 9, they were very very distraught to find out that the Pah Wraiths didn't look like THIS GUY
I could be wrong though.
I am sorry to hear that STO is not providing you with an adequate level of entertainment. As always, we will continue to do our best to improve the game and will continue to provide regular updates. Please continue checking on our progress; hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised!
You are correct - this is a tough bug. I was hoping the underline "at will" would be a link to reproduction steps, but alas, it was only formatting. What do you mean specifically by it being the UI? Can anyone elaborate on this?
....
... damnit.
I am in your boat or Ship if you will. Life is too short for regrets but work is to long to waste money on bad games. I hope the StarWars mmo will be decent.
And that's what the fanboys at the beginning of Age of Conan were saying to those that were leaving.
^^^^^
You guys could always try for/request a pro-rated refund. I'm liking this game a lot atm, and also like the direction it's heading content wise.
As for SW:ToR, I honestly hope it'll be good too (more Sci-Fi based MMOs is great imo - so sicked and tired of the glut of tolkienesque fantasy MMOs), but I was disheartened to read they will be no player ships or player in space travel or combat via personal ships (only closet thing I could state to what I'm talking about is the old SWG MMOs 'Jump to Lightspeed). Boiware has only stated they are 'aware' potential players are 'interested' in this aspect. So, SWToR does seem more like "WoW as Science Fiction and with Light Sabers).