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Borg Cube Hyper-Crits - WTF???

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Just played an exploration mission against Borg in space. I was only on advanced mode.

3 spheres - easy.
2 groups of probes - easy.

Final cube - 4 attempts! WTF?! :mad:

Each time I died it was due to some freaking ******** crit for over 10k damage. HOW THE HELL DOES A BEAM ARRAY CRIT FOR 16k THROUGH SHIELDS???

This is very very annoying. Surely this isn't right?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They are the freaking BORG!

    They are doing to you what the Borg do to any federation ship that is not named Enterprise or Voyager. :p

    Finally SOMETHING true to Star Trek as we've seen it on TV...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zutty wrote: »
    Just played an exploration mission against Borg in space. I was only on advanced mode.

    3 spheres - easy.
    2 groups of probes - easy.

    Final cube - 4 attempts! WTF?! :mad:

    Each time I died it was due to some freaking ******** crit for over 10k damage. HOW THE HELL DOES A BEAM ARRAY CRIT FOR 16k THROUGH SHIELDS???

    This is very very annoying. Surely this isn't right?

    Well it is a borg cube.. borg arent meant to be dismissively easy.

    I've soloed a cube, although I agree they are very tough depending on your skills chosen and you can pretty much forget shields for the encounter irrespective lol.

    Easy way yo fight them is to run them around some space debris, they are fast in a straight line but slow and awkward to turn because of the size, just fly around them shooting and healing hull as necessary.

    flying at them...bad idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ok so I admit my first attempt I was a little cocky, and I got it down to about 10% before I got hit with a BS crit. The next couple of times I tried attacking in waves to allow my abilities to cool down, but all I needed to do was just peek into 9.9km, and they would wipe me out with a single crit, yet again.

    I'm all for a more difficult opponent, and in general I'm enjoying the difficulty slider, but a 16K crit from a single beam array is not fair. I've never gotten a crit that high from a beam array. Hell, I dont remeber getting hits that high from torpedos very often.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zutty wrote: »
    Ok so I admit my first attempt I was a little cocky, and I got it down to about 10% before I got hit with a BS crit. The next couple of times I tried attacking in waves to allow my abilities to cool down, but all I needed to do was just peek into 9.9km, and they would wipe me out with a single crit, yet again.

    I'm all for a more difficult opponent, and in general I'm enjoying the difficulty slider, but a 16K crit from a single beam array is not fair. I've never gotten a crit that high from a beam array. Hell, I dont remeber getting hits that high from torpedos very often.

    Like I said... They are the BORG. And to them, you are cannon fodder.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zutty wrote: »

    I'm all for a more difficult opponent, and in general I'm enjoying the difficulty slider, but a 16K crit from a single beam array is not fair. I've never gotten a crit that high from a beam array. Hell, I dont remeber getting hits that high from torpedos very often.

    I'd be disappointed if a borg cube didn't do 16K crit damage from a single beam array.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    did the cube use beam overload? That would prob make a 16k crit for borg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    First attempt, first time facing a cube on Elite... dead cube.

    Next time, took three attempts. I made a few mistakes that time.

    It's just learning the fight. Nowadays, I take cubes down in one try, unless I really flub it. They aren't that difficult.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    With beam overload, I have crit for 20-30K many times. it the torpedos HY or Spread that you have to watch out for. I have been hit by them for way more than my max Hull of about 46K as a cruiser captain. If youy are the Glass Cannon tac ship with no healing or resistance buffs, then you have to use things lige jam sensors and get in and out as quick as possible. If you take your time and attack wisely you can make the kill first time out most of the time.

    Thirteen
    Tactical Fleet Delta
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Like I said... They are the BORG. And to them, you are cannon fodder.

    The Borg stopped being badass the minute Janeway could beat them regularily.
    If the shortest short bus in Starfleet can best the Borg, anyone can. Accept it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They are the freaking BORG!

    They're the borg in the 25th century. They've already been defeated in the books soundly. These borg are different. We don't know why but they seem odd. And weaker. There's a story there.

    They're not the complete threat they used to be.

    The issue with borg cubes, btw, is a bug. Still being looked at.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sounds like a bug worth keeping. anything to make this game a non-cake walk.

    EDIT: BTW I've never had a problem with borg. Ever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Issue? What issue? You TRIBBLE up, they wtfpwn you. That's not an issue. That's life.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    RCSlyman wrote: »
    Issue? What issue? You TRIBBLE up, they wtfpwn you. That's not an issue. That's life.

    Damage bugs. That are being investigated. Devs have already made posts about this. And are looking into it.

    Sometimes bugs happen. Get recorded. Get reported. And get acknowledged.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The Borg stopped being badass the minute Janeway could beat them regularily.
    If the shortest short bus in Starfleet can best the Borg, anyone can. Accept it.

    Yeah... Berman and Braga took the perfect Star Trek super-enemy and turned them into pansies. But I guess they had to do something. After all, Voyager HAD to get home, and they had to go through Borg Space to do that. had the Borg continued to be written as an irresistable force, then Voyager wouldn't have made it through all seven seasons to reach that series finale with its totally anticlimactic and totally unfulfilling end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Damage bugs. That are being investigated. Devs have already made posts about this. And are looking into it.

    Sometimes bugs happen. Get recorded. Get reported. And get acknowledged.

    Well, bug or not, I still think that having an enemy,especially one as epic as the Borg used to be, that's able to blast your ship into space dust with one shot if you completely flub the encounter, isn't a bad thing. I mean, there was ships that would get tractored by a cube. And what happened? Their saucer section would get shredded by a cutting beam in a matter of seconds.

    Even when Starfleet was able to start gibbing cubes, it still took a massive fleet, and losses were heavy. Now, we're taking them on solo. And winning. Makes sense that you only get that win, if you manage to execute a picture-perfect battle strategy.

    OK, yeah, bugs need squashing. This one should be pretty low on the list, though, imo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    At least these Borg don't adapt to be immune to your attacks after two or thee shots. Imagine having to constantly switch weapons and firing angles in order to even affect them in-game. I guess that by the 25th century all weapons are equipped with the IMOD system from Elite Force (not that that's canon).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'd be disappointed if a borg cube didn't do 16K crit damage from a single beam array.

    lol me too
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They are the freaking BORG!

    They are doing to you what the Borg do to any federation ship that is not named Enterprise or Voyager. :p

    Finally SOMETHING true to Star Trek as we've seen it on TV...

    They are doing to a federation ship what they did 20 plus years before the game time. Sorry. Nothing can assimilate technology fast enough to cope with the technology change of the federation.

    In reality if the federation, Romulan Star Empire and the Qo'nos fought a 30 year battle and the borg always remained far superior to them, they would have fallen miserably 27 years prior to 2409. The sheer financial costs and personal costs is staggering. For both sides. There are only so many resources the borg can obtain and only so much technology.

    Cryptic doesnt see or understand war from how they scripted the Borg. It is physically impossible for the Borg to be this hard. Maybe if the game took place in a pre voyager return federation, unfortunately it doesnt.

    One Borg cube destroyed would cost the Borg dearly. Thats why you didnt see a bazillion of them flying around in TNG and Voyager. One cube attacked Wolf-359. And One Voyager was able to destroy multiple borg cubes with ease.

    Cryptic has not suspended disbelief in creating the borg like they did. There is a point that they would have to slow down. You cant control the universe. You cant assimilate everything and expect every individual to provide assets to the collective. Some may even be destructive to the collective and set them back.

    You didnt have to worry about this in TNG. You rarely saw them. And they even had problems with individuality damaging the collective.

    The Borg have a major draw back and individualistic societies should, would, could, will adapt technologies and strategies in 30 years that would have neutralized the Collectives abilities or be able to cause a stalemate as the Borg had with the Undine.

    The borg are not stupid. They find a race or a people that cost them dearly they will break off their plans (Borg and the Undine).

    You dont get a sense of them being the ultimate evil in the game. Just a pain in the TRIBBLE. Honestly. Why the hell would we go onto a Borg Infested star base? Why not call in a fleet and pulverize the starbase? Or use a tetryon pulse and shoot it throw the star base, destroying organic matter or the entire system?

    I just wish the STFs had variety. You have many many many many borg STFs and one Undine. Why not something like the movies? You only had one Borg movie. You had klingons, romulans, some weird people who like to stretch their faces like they were Joan Rivers, You had Khan, A probe, God, Malcom McDowell or however you spell his last name.

    I would be a dangerous threat to the federation in game. Anyone could in its current state. Come up with some super awesome weapon and you can destroy Earth. Or use an enemy from the past.

    Im tired of Borg. It just doesnt make good science or sense to continue them as a super ultra mega force after 30 years of fighting them. We adapt too. Even at the end of Voyager the borg was not a threat anymore in the future. Why did cryptic decide to make them the super enemy?

    Its not interesting. Its boring. Its why I stopped watching voyager half way through the series. I got tired of the Borg.

    There is no excuse or reason that the Borg would be this awesome this far into the future after our first contact with them.

    All you would have to do is use subspace weapons or transport something into their ships and vaporize organic matter. Or use subspace stuff to change the mass on certain areas which causes the entire ship to go boom. And subspace weapons and technology is readily available and used. Tetryon weapons, Tri-Colbat devices, Tyken's Rift, etc.

    The first time they are hit with viral matrix should have shut the collective down. Just send them a program that causes them to divide by zero until they get a prime number. They'd be flying their cubes into stars and in circles with that.

    Or send over strains of ebola or small pox. They still rely on flesh.

    The Borg need to be put out to pasture. And a new threat arise. Try to find an enemy that has not been used before and still defines what star trek is. In 30 years we should have explored and expanded known space to the point where we find a new enemy.

    People get tired of jem hadar, borg, cardasians, etc. They were ran into the ground. We need a sense of something truly awesome, like what TNG and TOS was about. You didnt have the same enemies every episode. You may have had a klingon or a romulan in one. Then there was an illness on a remote planet or you were going to watch a super nova or a planet being formed. Then you had one episode a season with the borg or sometimes 2 if it were a cliffhanging 2 parter.

    They do need to nerf Borg. Cubes are not balanced for the time period at all. In fact we should be seeing hardly any of the really huge cubes. No one has infinite resources to build ships that big over and over again. You would be seeing mini cubes or larger spheres. More probes. And rarely a cube. There is only so much resources in the universe and matter to produce cubes. And having more than one cube in a solar system would permanently mess up the orbits of every planet there. Possible sending stars into some crazy unstable state.

    Cant just plop something the size of planets and moons into a system without affecting the other bodies there.

    Blah! Borg. Give us some variety and something new cryptic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The Borg play 2-Dimensionally since the game only deals 2.5D. Simply stay we above them...they cant fire Heavy Plasma Torpedoes more than 45 degrees above or below the Horizon.

    Equip and use anything you can that can reduce energy damage. Hull plating, dampning fields, polarize hull, aceton field, etc, etc.

    Spam attacks from above as you spiral upward above him. Borg can apparently observe and percieve other planes and dimensions of existance...but they have a hard time looking up.

    Bear in mind, they will slowly come up after you, but they cant tilt up to aim there torpedoes at you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I pity the croo... no, I'm not Mr. T. But I am flying an Escort, so even on Elite the cubes are manageable. Offense: Bring down their shields to 2/3 or 1/2, load up alpha strike skills, blow the cube to kingdom come. Defense: Wait till your shields are down, then jam their sensors. If your hull goes below 75% once they have recovered from jam sensors., pop Engineering Team and Hazard Emitters. In combination, these two not only bring you back close to 100% health, they even protect you from 60% of the incoming damage for 18 seconds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    you have no reason to complain... u are using poor tactics... as was posted above.. a top or bottom attack will work wonders... an occasional slip up will get you a trip to the shipyard for repairs. What? U can't just shoot it? Call the WAAAAAAMBULANCE !!!!

    The new difficulties are wonderful... And players with no tactics get BlownApart... As it should be...


    Napoleon BlownApart
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Desdecardo wrote: »
    Lots of *yawn* text.

    Ok yeah i read what you said, but no way im quoting that! :p

    This i your view, everyone else wants the big bad villains of Star Trek, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Dominion, Cardassians and even the Borg.
    I believe a huge majority of Trek fans got very ticked off with how the Borg were made into wusses in Voyager, and what Cryptic has done is restored them to what they should be, a force to be reconed with.

    "You can't outrun them, You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains – they regenerate and keep coming... eventually you will weaken – your reserves will be gone... they are relentless." - Q in Q Who

    The path to 2409 even explains why the Borg are again a power, and thats because Starfleet stopped viewing them as a threat and closed down their Borg Task Force leaving them again unprepared for the new wave and onslaught from the Borg.
    And from your arguments i will assume you know nothing at all of the Borg.

    Beam in devices to mess them up? Yeah right.... shields anyone?
    Ebola? Smallpox? are you serious? Or are you not aware that they have nanoprobes that maintain their organic parts and renegerate their bodies. And just a few stray nanoprobes are capable of constructing an entire bloody maturation chamber from scratch.

    lol and limited number of Borg ships and cubes?
    Or are you also not aware that the Borg have assimilated and conquered thousands and thousands of worlds over the course of many millennia.
    Combine just those raw materials with the superior replication and regeneration technology the Borg possess its little matter to have thousands and thousands of Cubes, Sphers and Probes.

    Like Q said, they just keep comming and all that Janeway did(in the worst series finale ever) was strike them a heavy blow from which they needed time to recover.
    But time is all that was bought.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Wow the Borg beat you four times?!?! Something must be wrong, the Captain is supposed to win everytime..... its written in the scripts that way. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    They're the borg in the 25th century. They've already been defeated in the books soundly. These borg are different. We don't know why but they seem odd. And weaker. There's a story there.

    They're not the complete threat they used to be.

    The issue with borg cubes, btw, is a bug. Still being looked at.

    The godawful Destiny series never happened in the game's timeline.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The godawful Destiny series never happened in the game's timeline.

    Sure it did. In the STO novel by Michael A. Martin, there's an entire chapter that is an interview between Jake Sisko and Renee Picard. Picard's wife is the daughter of Riker and Troi.

    That is directly from the Destiny series. Troi has that daughter in that series. Ergo, it happened because the author of the STO novel uses the character from an entire sub-plot in that series.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Sure it did. In the STO novel by Michael A. Martin, there's an entire chapter that is an interview between Jake Sisko and Renee Picard. Picard's wife is the daughter of Riker and Troi.

    That is directly from the Destiny series. Troi has that daughter in that series. Ergo, it happened because the author of the STO novel uses the character from an entire sub-plot in that series.

    Or he picked out bits of it. Or he wasn't told it never happened.
    The fact that the Borg exist at all in STO proves it never happened, in the Destiny series they're not defeat, they're dead, gone, extinct by deus ex machina.

    Although why the author would pick that absurdity is beyond me. Hacks beget hacks I guess.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Or he picked out bits of it. Or he wasn't told it never happened.
    The fact that the Borg exist at all in STO proves it never happened, in the Destiny series they're not defeat, they're dead, gone, extinct by deus ex machina.

    Although why the author would pick that absurdity is beyond me. Hacks beget hacks I guess.

    They're not dead, gone or extinct from Destiny. As Annika proves with her completely different take on the issue, in the next TNG novel to follow the Destiny arc. Losing the Peace.

    It's all writing gimmicks. This game establishes that the borg we fight here at Vega ARE DIFFERENT. They are weaker. The game sets that up for two pretty easy to acknowledge reasons.

    1- The ability to tell new stories with them.
    2- The mechanics. The Borg can't be done the way they were in the shows. The mechanics of the game can't emulate their constant assimilation and adaptability. It's too limited. The game also needs to present enemies as challenging, but not unbeatable. And space combat against the borg was binary. They were either unbeatable (Best of Both Worlds) ... or easily destroyed (a few quantum torps and we're done in First Contact). That doesn't even get into Transphasics, which in the books do one-shot the borg. But in-game, do not.

    So really this whole thing is just wide open. The borg at Vega are different. We haven't been told why yet. I think they do plan to tell us. They may even let Q do it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I've been one-shotted by their plasma torpedos before (with a sliver of shields still up and nearly full hull strength), so don't feel too bad. Pretty much what everyone already said, and make sure you have either Attack Pattern Omega or Polarize Hull to break out of their tractor beam. You lose a huge defense bonus when you're sitting still and crits start to hurt a lot more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Sure it did. In the STO novel by Michael A. Martin, there's an entire chapter that is an interview between Jake Sisko and Renee Picard. Picard's wife is the daughter of Riker and Troi.

    That is directly from the Destiny series. Troi has that daughter in that series. Ergo, it happened because the author of the STO novel uses the character from an entire sub-plot in that series.

    Except that Riker and Troi didn't name thier daughter Renee. If you read ST:TITAN Over a Torrent Sea, and the end their daughters name is revealed to be Natasha Miana Riker-Troi.

    I think this little tid-bit leands more credednce to the claim that the Destiny and Post Destiny series events didn't happen in STOs timeline.... but thats just my opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The Borg at Vega were weaker because of Khitomer Accords. I don't know the specifics and evidentally never will since Cryptic have decided that the storyline will only be continued in STFs where only the hardcore raiders can pass.
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