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Crafting System / Further Memory Alpha Ugrade

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I went and checked the new Memory Alpha system earlier and I've come to the conclusion that the system, as it is, still needs a lot of work before it becomes an actual crafting system. That being said, the improvements that went live today will in fact help towards that goal! I have here a plan that I believe would further help:

1. Use the anomalous data purely for the purpose of researching and developing recipes. Do not use them for actually creating or modifying items (that is, spend the anomalous data and you learn the recipe, which is then used to craft the items with other components as I will describe below). There should be a function at Memory Alpha to actually conduct "Research" - that is, you spend anomalous data and as a result have a chance of learning a random advanced recipe, which may or may not be affected by other recipes you have learned and may be attemptable only once per day or some other frequency. These are the recipes that would be valuable - it's understood that the recipes the vendors directly teach you are not as useful, they're really just for improving your understanding of the field.

2. When you find various items, they should be "deconstructible" to gain Parts. Parts should be of a particular research tree type, as per the three trees we now have in the system and there should be a chance to gain uncommon, rare and very rare parts when you perform a deconstruction (based on the rarity of the item you are deconstructing). These parts are what are used to actually craft items; a "base item" such as we use now may still be additionally required, depending on the item in question.

3. When crafting there should be four different kinds of items you can make: Gear (such as firearms, ship shields, etc.), Toys (ship "skin" parts, personal or BO costume pieces, shuttlecraft, etc.) Enhancements (mods that improve the function of an existing item somehow, preferrably in a way that does not mimic usual on-item bonuses, for example: a special proc) and Consumables (including special or extra-strong consumable types that are not otherwise obtainable).

4. Ideally, people would be forced to specialize in only ONE of the three types of Crafting. This will lead to a healthy player-driven economy and trade between them for items they can't make themselves, particularly the most prestigious Toys as the crafted ones should not be available via other means. I do not recommend making things that are one type of Captain only.

5. In contrast to Toys, there should be some Gear, Enhancements and Consumables that are self-only. These can as a result be unusually strong or useful and act as potent rewards for hard work. Since they're self-only they have limited competition with other forms of gear; you have to work hard to be able to use them. This has been proven to be balanced in many other MMO's.

6. Some recipes should be drop only, such as from STF's. Also, a really good idea for STO would be for some recipes to only be accessible via random traders that you find on exploration missions! Some others might be PvP-based in acquisition. Ideally the crafting system will encompass all aspects of gameplay.

7. Allow crafting to occur away from Memory Alpha, presumably at crafting points on starbases (i.e. "forges"). Some items should be craftable anywhere, particularly consumables.

So, to recap some major points from above:

a. When researching and acquiring components there is a heavy emphasis on random results. This has been proven to form a good underpinning of a crafting system as it slows down advancement and raises value in addition to using a "lottery" mentality to keep people interested.

b. Freely tradeable Toys make for good trade and prestige items. The pursuit of such will really motivate players.

c. Special and useful self-only Gear, Enhancements and Consumables that are not otherwise obtainable will cause players to really value the effort they put into crafting and instill a strong sense of reward.

d. Recipes should be obtainable from all aspects of gameplay. This causes players to have a wider appreciation for game aspects that they might not otherwise partake in and results in a healthier social atmosphere.

If these things are implemented, all of which are based on the system we now have, IMO we'll have a crafting system to be proud of and a real increase in player retention, too.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Something like this above needs to be done.

    Also there should be a degree of customization of what's made allowing the player to create enhanced items that normally wouldn't spawn in game potentially.

    A take on this, items should be able to recycles also for Crafting Skill points and have crafting work like the current skill system but with a separate pool and skill trees and cap.

    Something could also be done to upgrade say the ships themselves so we can enhance slots that we can swap items and gear into Also perhaps give the crafter a chance to produce a superior crafted item based on their skill level. Like when attempting to upgrade the rarity of an item, there's a chance that the stats are randomly (within a range) enhanced above the normal.

    Also add in the ability produce custom hull armors that aren't engineering consoles.

    My thoughts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The horse has been beaten to death. If you would read some of cryptics posts they are working on changing the crafting to be more traditional. Just wait for the changes and then post again with your feedback..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    when i saw the patch this morning and discovered that memory alpha was included. i was estatic. However, once i got there. I was so disappointed to discover that it was more of the same broken system. Sure it was easier to use. But it was pointless. I had stocked up on stacks and stacks of samples, looking forward to the changes. Now, i've got tons of worthless samples and no desire to "craft" anything. I was expecting better. I was expecting to improve my equipment, not upgrade worthless equipement into useless junk. I'm an RA5 with a full set of very rare equipment on myself and my boffs. I was hoping to transform my equipment into better quality equipment (yes better than very rare), add bonuses like critical chance, accuracy, and more. I wanted to take what I have and make it better. Instead, i was presented with lists and lists and lists of worthless junk. And where are the consoles? But i guess when you put in junk, you get junk. Cryptic for the first time, I am truly disappointed. I am seriously questioning my choice of purchasing my lifetime subscription.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm still an LTC, played a little over 30 hours so far and have a ways to go before RA5 :) So... with that said, a lot of the stuff there at memory alpha is cetainly worth it for me.

    I did not have high expectations about memory alpha update either...I actually read the forums and was prepared for this and can be patient for additional changes. So far, they are on the right track to fixing the mess they made.

    While I hate the idea of copying anything from Champions online to Startrek online... the crafting system needs to be copied from CO in a bad way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dave111 wrote:
    The horse has been beaten to death. If you would read some of cryptics posts they are working on changing the crafting to be more traditional. Just wait for the changes and then post again with your feedback..

    I know the devs are going to improve things further but I don't know what they are planning or what they have managed to think of. I post feedback because I know the devs will read it and, hopefully, add it to their info base as they go forward.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    soriedem wrote: »
    when i saw the patch this morning and discovered that memory alpha was included. i was estatic. However, once i got there. I was so disappointed to discover that it was more of the same broken system. Sure it was easier to use. But it was pointless. I had stocked up on stacks and stacks of samples, looking forward to the changes. Now, i've got tons of worthless samples and no desire to "craft" anything. I was expecting better. I was expecting to improve my equipment, not upgrade worthless equipement into useless junk. I'm an RA5 with a full set of very rare equipment on myself and my boffs. I was hoping to transform my equipment into better quality equipment (yes better than very rare), add bonuses like critical chance, accuracy, and more. I wanted to take what I have and make it better. Instead, i was presented with lists and lists and lists of worthless junk. And where are the consoles? But i guess when you put in junk, you get junk. Cryptic for the first time, I am truly disappointed. I am seriously questioning my choice of purchasing my lifetime subscription.

    I understand your frustration, but I honestly believe that they were just fixing the underpinnings of the system. It certainly looks like a solid basic system at this point; it's not really crafting but it could *become* crafting with additions as opposed to fixes. Due to this, even though as it is right now it isn't much more useful than it was before, I have to say that we have had a major improvement. Hopefully they'll add something to the system sooner rather than later, and I suspect it won't take nearly as much work as this update did.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think the ground work for a better system could've begun with this change to simplify, but it hasn't done anything at all really. For those of use who put in a bunch of time finding the craft-able common stock and gathering anomalies to no end it has done nothing except put us backward. I could craft everything before and all this update did was rearrange things. THERE IS NOTHING NEW! It's all rearranged, but I can no longer craft everything. I can only do what used to be second tier, and two or three items in one of the new lines of study. This is hardly fair to those who put in a lot of energy to getting to the "end" of grinding. I am not happy with the change at all since it really did nothing except make it easier to grind while simultaneously setting me back. If there were even SOME change to the items, SOMETHING unique that couldn't be gotten as regular loot, it would've eased the sting, but as it is, they just took all the puzzle pieces, rearranged them, lowered the amount of anomalies needed that I already worked hard to farm, and made it simple to get the common items needed by adding a vendor, THEN they say under the new system I may not be able to craft everything that I could before because of the structure. There is no new structure, just a new look to it with THE SAME ITEMS AS BEFORE. I know I keep repeating myself, but it really is not only frustrating, but ridiculous to even call this a positive change since nothing is really new at all except the pull down menu that lists your standings, which I admit is nice. I just feel like someone is waving something shiny in my face saying "Look at this!" While they take away my stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    soriedem wrote: »
    when i saw the patch this morning and discovered that memory alpha was included. i was estatic. However, once i got there. I was so disappointed to discover that it was more of the same broken system. Sure it was easier to use. But it was pointless. I had stocked up on stacks and stacks of samples, looking forward to the changes. Now, i've got tons of worthless samples and no desire to "craft" anything. I was expecting better. I was expecting to improve my equipment, not upgrade worthless equipement into useless junk. I'm an RA5 with a full set of very rare equipment on myself and my boffs. I was hoping to transform my equipment into better quality equipment (yes better than very rare), add bonuses like critical chance, accuracy, and more. I wanted to take what I have and make it better. Instead, i was presented with lists and lists and lists of worthless junk. And where are the consoles? But i guess when you put in junk, you get junk. Cryptic for the first time, I am truly disappointed. I am seriously questioning my choice of purchasing my lifetime subscription.

    Since you seem to have missed it somewhere, the Devs plainly stated some time ago that stage one (this one) of the MA overhaul was getting the UI working properly and giving useful feedback to the players. Not once was there a promise of new content for MA with this particular update.

    Personally, I'm willing to wait and see where crafting goes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    don't get me wrong. I appreciated the fixes. It certainly makes it easier to use memory alpha. I just expected more, especially for upper level players. I just hope that the following updates actually add newer capabilities.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I can completely understand making things simpler. I agree with putting in a vendor. What I find completely unacceptable is that people that had previously mastered a crafting trade now login to find that they can only make a handful of the items they previously could. Saying to players "look we made it easier and cheaper" then turning around and telling the players that spent the time previously to master their crafts that they were idiots for wasting the time, effort and money on the system they implemented in a broken state is absolutely unacceptable. Previously I could make any of the tactical gear, now I have 172/500 in advanced technology which translates to me not even being able to make all of the MK VIII gear. Fortunately for me there is nothing in the crafting system worth me wasting any time on since I have hit RA5. Thanks Cryptic, I am waiting very patiently for Bioware to finish up The Old Republic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    That is what I did it only slows you down. It is just a badges system. One that is a pain to do as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well, I agree that Memory Alpha has a long way to go yet. Still I find it useful to craft stuff there. It has been a very good source of shields, engines, deflectors, armor, and sometimes kits for my alts. And now its easier to do that with the basic item merchants.

    But yes, obviously the whole thing needs major improvements. Purples should be craftable considering how easy they are to get from dailies. All weapon types need to be covered at all levels those weapons normally appear in. The stuff should also be unique in some way, rather than pretty much identical to what you can get with badges. Also, like Champions, there should be other things to make with crafting, like the costume unlocks and travel powers and consumables. As it is, its pretty much only equipment in STO.

    Right now the system is very basic, almost too basic, but at least it looks like it has a future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm renaming it "Crapting", not 'Crafting', due to it's sheer TRIBBLE-ness. There's nothing to crapt that's worthy of the money and data samples put in to the crapting process.

    And after knocking a sizeable chunk out of each crapting tree, and fully maxing the AdvPhysSci crapting tree, I still have over 200 Alien Artifacts left, and over 150 Radiation Samples and Mineral Samples, which weren't really used at all, in any of the crapting recipes.

    And even after maxing the AdvPhysSci crapting tree, there's nothing there worth crapting.

    Truly awful.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I'm renaming it "Crapting", not 'Crafting', due to it's sheer TRIBBLE-ness. There's nothing to crapt that's worthy of the money and data samples put in to the crapting process.

    And after knocking a sizeable chunk out of each crapting tree, and fully maxing the AdvPhysSci crapting tree, I still have over 200 Alien Artifacts left, and over 150 Radiation Samples and Mineral Samples, which weren't really used at all, in any of the crapting recipes.

    And even after maxing the AdvPhysSci crapting tree, there's nothing there worth crapting.

    Truly awful.

    Can I have your anamalous data? My LTC character likes the stuff they have at memory alpha :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    joebobkill wrote: »
    Can I have your anamalous data? My LTC character likes the stuff they have at memory alpha :)

    For the right price, sure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    daveywavey wrote: »
    For the right price, sure.

    Luckily for Joebob, that price is bottoming out quickly.
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