Yes, ridiculous title but there is a kernel of truth beneath it.
Ok, maybe not quite everything. I can't really see nerfing Cannon Scatter Volley, but in general PVP would be enhanced greatly if there was a general, across the board nerf to ALL abilities.
Burst damage in this game is ridiculous, so is RSP to deal with it, so is SNB to deal with that, etc., etc. What if.....combining CRF II, APO, Sensor Scan, HY II, and SNB did NOT result in 80k damage in 4 seconds. What if it increased damage by about 50% total, rather than 700% or 800% as it does currently so that what type of shields your target has and the levels they were sitting at were more important than whether or not your target could hit RSP in the first second after the alpha strike began. After nerfing the damage buffs, you could follow up with RSP being less than complete God-Mode. Once you've done those two things getting hit by SNB wouldn't be the difference between 1) Being able to walk away from the computer for the entire duration of RSP and know your ship will not only survive but will recover any shield damage you may have taken, OR 2) Dying in 4 seconds in a hideous and horrible matter as your previously God-like shields transform into wet tissue paper against the onslaught of all the demons from hell.
SNB stripping alll buffs is only OP because every buff, offense and defense, is so OP that losing your buffs is either insta-death or complete irrelevance.
I'm not suggesting making abilities useless, but how about have them not be so absolutely, instantly, irrecoverably, critically, and in all other ways far too necessary.
We should all just fly around in runabouts and do pvp in them exclusivley with no captain power or BO's. Only 1 cannon/phaser with a 20 degree firing arc and it will be 1 hit, 1 kill.
i demand the nerfing of team play! the ability to help out a fellow team memeber is waaaay over powered. how dare i be able to send a science team over to help him out when his shields are dropped. same with hazzard emitters. i'm tellin ya the real problem with pvp is it involves people
-all in good humor, if i offend please dont be offened and just remember the number 42.-
Really, give me a rubber band gun with 1 damage and triple the shield defense of cruisers and i'll still kill 90% of the cruiser captains. If you wait tell end game to start to pvp you will get owned for a long long time no matter what they nerf. True skills are earned when the only way to get your Klink to RA is 2 weeks of constant PVP, from lvl 5-45.
The feds are getting better, i am guessing because most klinks have gone fed for something to do. You can only kill so many feds before you get bored.
I don't mind nerfs, I don't mind boots. I will always adapt my gameplay to the curent game rules. A modified ability is only overpowered cause you have not adaped to the change. So either try a few things out yourself or wait a few weeks and someone is bound to post a fitting that will help to counter it.
You do realize that an escort capable of killing you in 3 seconds per such a nerf would be able to kill you in 3 seconds after the nerf.
You said across the board, well if you nerf damage by say 75%, and survivability by 75%....your back at square one. It is just the numbers look smaller.
You do realize that an escort capable of killing you in 3 seconds per such a nerf would be able to kill you in 3 seconds after the nerf.
You said across the board, well if you nerf damage by say 75%, and survivability by 75%....your back at square one. It is just the numbers look smaller.
Haha thats so true, guess the OP didnt think his idea through. It would all be the same anyway with 10k crits instead of 20k.
What's the deal with all of you nerf haters?!
I agree with the original poster, nerf everything! Shoot don't make me nerf you all right now! That upgrade cost 5000 badges but it's totally worth it, I 1 shot people all the time.
The best way to fix pvp is to stop stacking same skill. Would lower damage and defence for all. No more stacking 3 attack patern beta, 3 rsp, 2 tss and so on.
The best way to fix pvp is to stop stacking same skill. Would lower damage and defence for all. No more stacking 3 attack patern beta, 3 rsp, 2 tss and so on.
That was already completely over-solved by the abomination that is now SNB.
Last thing we need is more deterrent in that department, if anything we need less. 70% of the PVP pop and growing are all science captains.
Although the damage output is insanely high that is not the problem. Nor is the problem the fact that the klinks team up and work together, well not the idea of teaming it self, that is actually a good thing to do and more feds need to learn how to do it.
The biggest trouble is the current system allows pretty much and endless number of one side to join a battle already in progress. as I mentioned in another thread more often then not a fed will find them self's facing not only team work and working together but, also a overwhelming amount of enemy's. Which if you think about it does not take a lot of good game play, it is not hard to win if you outnumber the other team at 3-5 to one.
There have been many times, more then I can count, I go into an instance and there are about 5-7 feds and about 5-7 klinks, sometimes we will manage to take them out or make them retreat, soon after such a victory there are way more klinks then there are feds. I have been in capture the flag match's where they suddenly have 2-3 klinks at each flag and a roving group of 5-10 ships blasting anything that moves.
This I believe is a symptom of letting people join battles in progress they obviously are talking to each other and telling each other which instance to join being that klinks have little aside from pvp to lvl, these lines of communication and groups are obviously well established and they have plenty of people to call on to overwhelm.
The system is broken but, not really in the ability's although I would agree with anyone who said some of the skills need a little tuning but, more in the area of there should be more to limit cannon damage, there are several skills that allow one to limit or use incoming beam damage to there advantage and maybe 2 that will do anything about incoming cannon damage.
Although I think the biggest thing that needs looking at is the late arrivals, there should be a system in place that watch's the numbers and how many people there are and will only kick out invites to attempt to even the numbers not the current system of allowing a huge amount of one team or the other to join battles in progress. Such as if there are 2 feds and 5 klinks it will kick out invites to 3 more feds and no more klinks can join. Also a system that watch's the number's and won't let more join if they already have more then the other side such as if there are 2 feds and 5 klinks then it will let 3 feds join but no more klinks until the numbers are even.
Also there needs to be a penalty to those that leave a match because the other problem is people getting on there feds to get the match started then switching to there kilinks and joining the battle they intentionally short sided, I know supposedly this is something they fixed but, obviously there is still a way to do it because it is still happening. I suspect that one of the ways they are going about it is simply shutting down the game and or there pc and either A. this allows them to come back in a bit and get on there klink or B. they have it worked out with friends "ok,today is my day to use my feds to get you guys a game started but, tomorrow is your day" or something along these lines.
Any one that leaves in the middle of a battle should face a timer of at least the average time it takes a match to complete before they can log on to the other faction toon hence if a fed player drops in the middle of the battle then they are looking at an hour or two before they can log into the klink toon. Of course this can be circumvented by having enough people to fill the rotation and would do nothing for the "this is my day tomorrow is yours" crowd. So maybe the timer should be 24 hours, many will wait the hour or rotate out but few will wait 24 hours, before they can join any pvp match after they drop on any toon, this seams exstream I know and would suck for people that honestly had a RL issue come up but, I fear something exstream is what will be needed to slow the people down that use this method to assure victory.
I know that some of this is due to the fact that many people que for multiple instances and either go to a dif one or are afk when the join button comes up but, that is not the only reason and anyone who pays attention can see this.
You do realize that an escort capable of killing you in 3 seconds per such a nerf would be able to kill you in 3 seconds after the nerf.
You said across the board, well if you nerf damage by say 75%, and survivability by 75%....your back at square one. It is just the numbers look smaller.
Umm, no he wouldn't? I didn't say nerf damage and nerf survivability, I said to bring the two extremes (buff offense vs. buff defense) closer to the middle so it isn't such an all or nothing affair.
Currently (yes, yes, numbers are illustrations not exact): Dual Cannons for about 300dps, x APA, x APO, 600dps, x CRF II for 1000dps (600 x 1.4%) x 3 Cannons = incoming for 3000dps.
On receiving end: 3000dps, x Sensor Scan for 4200 dps x 3 seconds (ToT for second volley) for 12600 damage. Frankly, this is very low, 3 fully buffed DHCs easily drop shields to 0 in a single volley.
12600. 25k counting the second volley. Easy to do, just hit a few buttons and shoot. Follow that up with a HY II or III Torpedo for 12k plus (unless you crit, then it's much MUCH higher), and the next volley (which arrives 3 seconds later) will easily bring them down. A 7000 point shield is pretty much useless against a total incoming volume of 36000 plus damage or so. So instead, our intrepid target simply hits RSP, and negates 24k of the 36 k damage, incidentally reducing the last 12k damage from the torpedo to 200 or so.
So, either our target does not use RSP and takes 40k to 50k damage, or he uses RSP and takes about 1k. Maybe there is a middle ground between 50k and 1k?
To sum it up, using abilities takes currently takes you from an expected 3 or 4k dps to a 12-14k dps. The only way to survive numbers that high is to use an equally ridiculous ability that takes your 12-14k dps and reduces it to 200-600 dps. If offensive buffs brought you to 8k, instead of 14k, and defense dropped that by a comparable amount, you would find situations where using abilities would give you a very large advantage, but over a larger amount of time. Instead, we have people either popping in 3 seconds or being totally immune. According to the devs, we are looking for something towards the middle where a fight should be decided in 10 seconds, or even a minute.
I didn't suggest nerfing damage, I suggested that we reduce the amount that offensive and defensive abilities alter the damage.
Comments
They should nerf loud people that refuse too adapt :cool:
Make do with what u have and ADAPT for crying out loud...
hint; the biggest/best/most overpowered weapon in STO is once brain, use it too figure out how to overcome obstacles instead of paving them...
That will sort the men from the boys
-all in good humor, if i offend please dont be offened and just remember the number 42.-
Nerf the whiners who fail to adapt!!!!!!
Really, give me a rubber band gun with 1 damage and triple the shield defense of cruisers and i'll still kill 90% of the cruiser captains. If you wait tell end game to start to pvp you will get owned for a long long time no matter what they nerf. True skills are earned when the only way to get your Klink to RA is 2 weeks of constant PVP, from lvl 5-45.
The feds are getting better, i am guessing because most klinks have gone fed for something to do. You can only kill so many feds before you get bored.
Seriously - that sounds like a blast ! (-80 in pun damage)
Oh goodness. I was going to contribute to this discussion, I swear, but I think I've been rendered speechless. :eek:
ummmm... LOL
You do realize that an escort capable of killing you in 3 seconds per such a nerf would be able to kill you in 3 seconds after the nerf.
You said across the board, well if you nerf damage by say 75%, and survivability by 75%....your back at square one. It is just the numbers look smaller.
Haha thats so true, guess the OP didnt think his idea through. It would all be the same anyway with 10k crits instead of 20k.
I agree with the original poster, nerf everything! Shoot don't make me nerf you all right now! That upgrade cost 5000 badges but it's totally worth it, I 1 shot people all the time.
That was already completely over-solved by the abomination that is now SNB.
Last thing we need is more deterrent in that department, if anything we need less. 70% of the PVP pop and growing are all science captains.
The biggest trouble is the current system allows pretty much and endless number of one side to join a battle already in progress. as I mentioned in another thread more often then not a fed will find them self's facing not only team work and working together but, also a overwhelming amount of enemy's. Which if you think about it does not take a lot of good game play, it is not hard to win if you outnumber the other team at 3-5 to one.
There have been many times, more then I can count, I go into an instance and there are about 5-7 feds and about 5-7 klinks, sometimes we will manage to take them out or make them retreat, soon after such a victory there are way more klinks then there are feds. I have been in capture the flag match's where they suddenly have 2-3 klinks at each flag and a roving group of 5-10 ships blasting anything that moves.
This I believe is a symptom of letting people join battles in progress they obviously are talking to each other and telling each other which instance to join being that klinks have little aside from pvp to lvl, these lines of communication and groups are obviously well established and they have plenty of people to call on to overwhelm.
The system is broken but, not really in the ability's although I would agree with anyone who said some of the skills need a little tuning but, more in the area of there should be more to limit cannon damage, there are several skills that allow one to limit or use incoming beam damage to there advantage and maybe 2 that will do anything about incoming cannon damage.
Although I think the biggest thing that needs looking at is the late arrivals, there should be a system in place that watch's the numbers and how many people there are and will only kick out invites to attempt to even the numbers not the current system of allowing a huge amount of one team or the other to join battles in progress. Such as if there are 2 feds and 5 klinks it will kick out invites to 3 more feds and no more klinks can join. Also a system that watch's the number's and won't let more join if they already have more then the other side such as if there are 2 feds and 5 klinks then it will let 3 feds join but no more klinks until the numbers are even.
Also there needs to be a penalty to those that leave a match because the other problem is people getting on there feds to get the match started then switching to there kilinks and joining the battle they intentionally short sided, I know supposedly this is something they fixed but, obviously there is still a way to do it because it is still happening. I suspect that one of the ways they are going about it is simply shutting down the game and or there pc and either A. this allows them to come back in a bit and get on there klink or B. they have it worked out with friends "ok,today is my day to use my feds to get you guys a game started but, tomorrow is your day" or something along these lines.
Any one that leaves in the middle of a battle should face a timer of at least the average time it takes a match to complete before they can log on to the other faction toon hence if a fed player drops in the middle of the battle then they are looking at an hour or two before they can log into the klink toon. Of course this can be circumvented by having enough people to fill the rotation and would do nothing for the "this is my day tomorrow is yours" crowd. So maybe the timer should be 24 hours, many will wait the hour or rotate out but few will wait 24 hours, before they can join any pvp match after they drop on any toon, this seams exstream I know and would suck for people that honestly had a RL issue come up but, I fear something exstream is what will be needed to slow the people down that use this method to assure victory.
I know that some of this is due to the fact that many people que for multiple instances and either go to a dif one or are afk when the join button comes up but, that is not the only reason and anyone who pays attention can see this.
All science abilities that deprive you of systems, any holds, stuff like that.
Leave in stuff you can do to YOURSELF only: EPW, EPS, EPE, CRF, HY etc.
This will cause a few people "who can't adapt" to use your own words to leave the game, but we will be better off for them leaving.
This is the only way to open this game up for all and frankly save the game.
Umm, no he wouldn't? I didn't say nerf damage and nerf survivability, I said to bring the two extremes (buff offense vs. buff defense) closer to the middle so it isn't such an all or nothing affair.
Currently (yes, yes, numbers are illustrations not exact): Dual Cannons for about 300dps, x APA, x APO, 600dps, x CRF II for 1000dps (600 x 1.4%) x 3 Cannons = incoming for 3000dps.
On receiving end: 3000dps, x Sensor Scan for 4200 dps x 3 seconds (ToT for second volley) for 12600 damage. Frankly, this is very low, 3 fully buffed DHCs easily drop shields to 0 in a single volley.
12600. 25k counting the second volley. Easy to do, just hit a few buttons and shoot. Follow that up with a HY II or III Torpedo for 12k plus (unless you crit, then it's much MUCH higher), and the next volley (which arrives 3 seconds later) will easily bring them down. A 7000 point shield is pretty much useless against a total incoming volume of 36000 plus damage or so. So instead, our intrepid target simply hits RSP, and negates 24k of the 36 k damage, incidentally reducing the last 12k damage from the torpedo to 200 or so.
So, either our target does not use RSP and takes 40k to 50k damage, or he uses RSP and takes about 1k. Maybe there is a middle ground between 50k and 1k?
To sum it up, using abilities takes currently takes you from an expected 3 or 4k dps to a 12-14k dps. The only way to survive numbers that high is to use an equally ridiculous ability that takes your 12-14k dps and reduces it to 200-600 dps. If offensive buffs brought you to 8k, instead of 14k, and defense dropped that by a comparable amount, you would find situations where using abilities would give you a very large advantage, but over a larger amount of time. Instead, we have people either popping in 3 seconds or being totally immune. According to the devs, we are looking for something towards the middle where a fight should be decided in 10 seconds, or even a minute.
I didn't suggest nerfing damage, I suggested that we reduce the amount that offensive and defensive abilities alter the damage.