I'm a RA5 with Very Rare MkX weapons all around my ship. I've played the PvP missions innumerable times with many other well-armed Federation allies, and every time the Klingons win easily. The game is not set up fairly and it's really a pain in the neck to play when you know going in the opponents will destroy you and your allies with ease. Not to mention the graphics are very poor with so many ships interacting. The action is all stop and go and half the time you don't even know who you're firing at. Anyone else sharing this experience?
I got on Sunday and someone made the same complaint in Zone while I was playing as a Klingon. What was funny was that I had just swtiched over from playing and winning as a Fed.
Each side can easily win. Especially in Salvage, where I don't even cloak as a Klingon.
If you think weapons are the only part of PvP you seriously have problems.
Have you spent even a minute reading the PvP forums and the wealth of PvP information there?
Are you grouped with a team?
What skills are you using?
Are you part of a PvP guild? If that is your intent, browse the Starbase forums and find one.
There is much much more to PvP than just weapons.
this.
1. Teamwork
a. call out targets
b. call out heals
c. ask for help
d. point out trouble spots (ex: ONE enemy ship doing multiple times the damage of any other needs to be dealt with)
2. Skills/abilities
a. BO skills ranked and usefull (this is as much a part of endgame as obtaining very rare weapons)
b. Captain skill tree reconfigured for best advantage for those BO skills
3. Ship
a. Weapons loadout.
b. consoles loadout
c. engines/shields/deflector loadout
d. power level presets (yes this is worth mentioning, you want to set them to take proper advantage of your skills and abilities)
and then you get into ground stuff too, which I wont go into as I prefer space and dont have the knowledge to help with ground.
oh, and you need to experiment with lowered graphics settings if you are having problems. (maybe avoid solar wind map too.. hate to say that but its graphics intensive.)
The game is not set up fairly and it's really a pain in the neck to play when you know going in the opponents will destroy you and your allies with ease.
What I noticed it comes down to teamwork Teamwork Teamwork and Klingons work better as a team then FEDS due its a fact. Tho there are alot of Federation players that use teamwork and actually heal/support people. but mainly WHat i see from the Federation side esecially in salvage is they want to 1v1 for some odd reason then complain when they get beaten by a gank group.
me and 3 fleet mates and a friend of fleet in Cracked Planoid map. 5 Fed in tight formation, looked like a premade. we communicate and pick target, battle starts....ouch... Feds 5, Klingons 1.
regroup, communicate, make plan, attack, Feds 5, Klingons 6. sofar so good.... then, to our surprise, every fed starts to fly in SOLO at full impuls... doh.... Feds 5, Klingons 15, game set and match
We flew 1 cruiser, 1 carrier, 3 raptors (could be 2 raptors and BoP, but i am sure we had 3 raptors..). Cruiser and carrierwere healing, rest doing DPS.....
Team work, communicate, tactics and ofc skils and BO setup.
I'm a RA5 with Very Rare MkX weapons all around my ship. I've played the PvP missions innumerable times with many other well-armed Federation allies, and every time the Klingons win easily. The game is not set up fairly and it's really a pain in the neck to play when you know going in the opponents will destroy you and your allies with ease. Not to mention the graphics are very poor with so many ships interacting. The action is all stop and go and half the time you don't even know who you're firing at. Anyone else sharing this experience?
Ever since the most recent patch, the Federation has drastically improved in PvP performance at max level. Matches that used to be 5 minute wins for the Klingons have turned into 15 to 20 minutes (or more) slugging matches with their outcomes very much unknown with the average PUGs.
Truly organized Federation groups have gone from tough to borderline unbeatable.
I don't know what you're doing wrong, but it isn't because the Klingons are OP.....
I'm a RA5 with Very Rare MkX weapons all around my ship. I've played the PvP missions innumerable times with many other well-armed Federation allies, and every time the Klingons win easily. The game is not set up fairly and it's really a pain in the neck to play when you know going in the opponents will destroy you and your allies with ease. Not to mention the graphics are very poor with so many ships interacting. The action is all stop and go and half the time you don't even know who you're firing at. Anyone else sharing this experience?
You know what's even worse ... a lot of those Klingons beating you up are doing it with Uncommon MkX weapons all around their ships, because very rares are just a pretty color.
Organised or unorganised klings can and do win the vast majority of the time
If we collated th satistics from the matches I think the data would be overwhelmingly in the klingons favour
I think the main reasons are:
Cloak makes it very easy for klings to get set up for a powerful attack and to regroup on the rare occasion your killed, this is a big advantage.
Most klingon ships can mount 3 x dual cannon and/or dual beams and a torp up front this means that in most instances klingons have far greater firepower and this allows huge damage spikes, any slight advantage which may be gained from slightly better shields or slightly better hulls on the fed side are entirely totally overwhelmed by the these huge damage spikes when a fed is targetd by a few klings and as said it is easy to set up davastating attacks using cloak.
Good and Bad players on both sides , but with average players of similar abilities on both sides I would think say klingon ships for the win
Cloak makes it very easy for klings to get set up for a powerful attack and to regroup on the rare occasion your killed, this is a big advantage.
That's called Alpha Strike. A good Fed player can laugh that right off.
Most klingon ships can mount 3 x dual cannon and/or dual beams and a torp up front this means that in most instances klingons have far greater firepower and this allows huge damage spikes, any slight advantage which may be gained from slightly better shields or slightly better hulls on the fed side are entirely totally overwhelmed by the these huge damage spikes when a fed is targetd by a few klings and as said it is easy to set up davastating attacks using cloak.
Not if you are in an organized group that is actually supporting each other.
Good and Bad players on both sides , but with average players of similar abilities on both sides I would think say klingon ships for the win
Klingon's pretty much PvP from day 1, so naturally we have a little bit better experience with it. And we also typically know to support each other. Of course with PUG PvP instances this does not always happen, but for the most part it does. It's not the ships, it's not broken skills it is simple team work. Period.
with guys that know all the stat stuff and purple numbers
and then pretend you are the leader and say " all forward and ready at the helm" and stuff and then hide behind all the good players and click "mask enemy signature" and after they target everyone else then unmask and shoot
this is the "Traxell Manuever" so named for my fed that is at luitenent now but has a feel for the future
The Klingon ships have a significant advantage in PvP. It takes several forms.
Their hull and shields are comparable to Federation equivalents. However, Klingon ships all have Cloaks, all have superior manueverability and all have superior firepower.
The Cloak allows a huge tactical advantage, specifically, the ability to choose when and where to attack as well as the first strike (which is usually decisive in itself).
Superior manueverability means they can continue to attack weak shields of targets while being able to turn their own weak shields away from attackers.
The superior firepower comes from the fact that all Klingon ships can mount heavy cannons, which VASTLY increases damage output, especially in that furst strike (which they're almost guaranteed to have...).
Thus, all else being equal, Klingons will always have the advantage in PvP.
OP most everyone here is going to be mean to you because as ubernerds they have mastered the 30 or so button presses and console/ equip selections necessary for a 99.035% chance of winning any engagement for this current patch period.
On the off chance you are a normal person like myself that just wants a bit of fun, don't PvP!
The meanest thing you can do to these people is leave them to themselves. They will eventually turn on each other in their need to win at PvP no matter what.
Just sit at the spawning starbase and minimize the game and go off and check your email and such.
Close your chat window, believe me there is nothing there you need.
You get your badges and don't have to deal with the grief.
Occasionally one of the really bright ones will try to get you at the starbase and instaspload because of the 20 or so turrets there, That is amusing.
To be fair this is not just the Klingons. The FvF matches are all science dweebs with equally nubered ships.
Also try to get a Galaxy X ship. This will be a good equalizer.
I'm a RA5 with Very Rare MkX weapons all around my ship. I've played the PvP missions innumerable times with many other well-armed Federation allies, and every time the Klingons win easily. The game is not set up fairly and it's really a pain in the neck to play when you know going in the opponents will destroy you and your allies with ease. Not to mention the graphics are very poor with so many ships interacting. The action is all stop and go and half the time you don't even know who you're firing at. Anyone else sharing this experience?
Its simple really. Just boycott PVP. If we don't play they will have to fix this!! I am seriously considering just doing my PVP dailys and just flying in and dieing over and over. Theres no point in trying if your just going to get killed in two seconds. Theres nothing realistic and fun ab out PVP in STO. Even if you play the Klingon faction you just gert this false sense of superiority. I have had no success what so ever in PVP. I have tried many times to just sail on the fail boat once more. Fix this Cryptic Please!!!!!
What I noticed it comes down to teamwork Teamwork Teamwork and Klingons work better as a team then FEDS due its a fact. Tho there are alot of Federation players that use teamwork and actually heal/support people. but mainly WHat i see from the Federation side esecially in salvage is they want to 1v1 for some odd reason then complain when they get beaten by a gank group.
I dont really understand how you can ever have teamwork in a game where you cannot even talk with your team. Its impossible to sit there and type messages and do combat without getting wasted every time. This game lacks seroius in game community communication and interaction. Whats the point in Massively online MMO? when you cannot communicate during the game.
I dont really understand how you can ever have teamwork in a game where you cannot even talk with your team. Its impossible to sit there and type messages and do combat without getting wasted every time. This game lacks seroius in game community communication and interaction. Whats the point in Massively online MMO? when you cannot communicate during the game.
Totally agree, on a PVP match there should be an additional chat setting (like zone, local, team, fleet chat) called FACTION chat, that will speak only to your side and not the other.
When I pvp properly it is with my fleet or friends and we vent as it is much easier to communicate targets etc here. However, for dailies and on occasion I will go into a PUG pvp and this is when communication is difficult. Sometimes people will not join your team or you will have a split team (eg 3 and 2) so team chat will not work. Also on large CTF maps there are more ships than you can have in a team so the only way to communicate with them all is to put something in Zone chat that the enemy will be able to read.
This is not a complicated addition and I rally think Cryptic should look into it as it would improve the ability to communicate in pvp.
LOL at guys that think slapping on fancy weapons will make you a good PvP'er!
Here's a couple clues... free and on the house.
- Team Up and use Team Work.
- Do not venture out by yourself. Go in pairs at the very, very least. Stay close to the group. As a KDF player primarily, Feds have a notoriously terrible habit of going off by themselves, while Klingons go in small groups at least. Lonely Feds are easy meals.
- Support your Teammates. I can have a fair chance of expecting support from fellow KDF players, even in PUGs. Feds have a nasty habit of not giving support to each other, preferring to keep such abilities for themselves.
- Decide as to what your ship will be doing and optimize EVERYTHING towards that end. Do not be a jack of all trades, because you'll be totally worthless and not capable of doing anything well.
- Continuously look at your build and setup and finding ways to change things for an improvement. Or just simply look at how you're fighting and how it affects the team.
- Experiment in trying new things out.
- Keep on fighting. Again and again.
When you see people with high scores and such, don't stamp your feet and pout. How about asking how in the hell did they do that to begin with? In all likeliness, they won't tell. But a few may, and you may learn a thing or two, or at the very least, get inspiration to do something different towards success.
If you're not having success in PvP, keeping on trying the same thing you were doing and expecting success will only lead to more failure.
If you're one of those guys that will just "Boycott PvP" (/snicker), then if for some miraculous reason you come in later to PvP again... you'll still suck.
Nothing will ensure your mediocrity better, for longer periods of time, if you always cast blame on outside sources for your own failures. Look towards what YOU are doing first before pointing at others. You may be doing something very wrong or just don't have that experience just yet.
Just to add one more thing. I dont mind loosing in PVP. But simply put the two second death rule should never apply. How is a person supposed to learn anything to do better when you just die in two seconds flat. The learning curve here is way to steap. I was never killed by any NPC character so fast. If a person is going to get better and learn anything they need to make it so you dont die so fast. You might still loose. But dieing in two seconds just makes the whole PVP thing hopeless.
The lack of a death penalty and the near-instant respawn offsets the occassional 2-second death in my opinion. My only advice is to try it, have fun and beware the occassional a-hole. Overtime you will get better and make friends in PvP.
Just to add one more thing. I dont mind loosing in PVP. But simply put the two second death rule should never apply. How is a person supposed to learn anything to do better when you just die in two seconds flat. The learning curve here is way to steap. I was never killed by any NPC character so fast. If a person is going to get better and learn anything they need to make it so you dont die so fast. You might still loose. But dieing in two seconds just makes the whole PVP thing hopeless.
generally when you get 2 second killed, its an alpha strike from a tactical heavy ship. Running full weapons power with 2 fore heavy cannons, and a quantum. attack pattern alpha a some sort of shield power dropping ability,the possibility is high that the cannons are phaser cannons givng a chance to drop a subsystem. I run phasers for this reason as my klingon.
the best way to not die to an alpha like this, is to expect it, or have an ally "on the ball" with a shield extension, and/or science team/engineering team.
or avoid the player all-together, and pick off the easier players. I have had to do this many times.
One thing that's helped me survive a bit better is to learn to switch between offensive and defensive power allocations quickly. You learn that the hard way doing B'tran Cluster on elite! And it's helped me big time survive a bit more on PvP.
Still have trouble with escorts popping up and blowing me away with their overwhelming firepower, but them's the breaks!
Here's some of my tips:
-Never let them attack you first. The guy who fires the first volley usually wins. If that happens, disengage immediately by any means.
-Save your evasive manuvers so you can try to outdistance your opponent. He'll usually break off to go for an easier target. If not, you can still outdistance him with emergency power to engines, ramming speed, etc, after you use your evasive manuvers.
-Placate, Tractor Beam, whatever you can use to throw sand in his face, make him stop firing, to get some distance... use it!
With that being said, I agree. Klingon factions are better. Their ships have more universal stations, they tend to perform a little better and they fight harder. However, it's the Klingon player's mindset that sets them apart. As a feddie, the mindset is to be Captain Kirk, the lone gunslinger. As a Klingon, the mindset is that you're a face wrecking space viking, out to win, to pillage, to burn. You're not trying to be the lone ranger. You're out to fight a war! Mindset can be a powerful thing.
Klingons are not op. I am not RA yet, but in my tier 4 galaxy class I have gone 4-5 matches in a row without even dying. All the while putting up pretty impressive damage and healing figures. Not going to beat the bush anymore, but teamwork is the key. I have been on fed teams that were amazing and dominating.
The best thing to do is always be ready to react to incoming fire. Have an escape route, or a plan to pop some BO skills quickly. Always have a plan.
1. The first Klingon you see and shot at is the decoy designed to get you to waste your attacks. The first target the klingons shoot at is a decoy designed to blow all your powers on.
2. The difference between winning and losing is how well organized you are.
3. Having purple weapons and being higher level doesn't matter when 5 klingons who are working as a team pop you like a balloon.
In short PvP is about team work using your powers to support and assist your team mates not running off and getting yourself killed. You will be fighting people on vent calling out targets, healing each other and generally making a mockery of you... So if you can't beat them join them:)
Comments
Each side can easily win. Especially in Salvage, where I don't even cloak as a Klingon.
Have you spent even a minute reading the PvP forums and the wealth of PvP information there?
Are you grouped with a team?
What skills are you using?
Are you part of a PvP guild? If that is your intent, browse the Starbase forums and find one.
There is much much more to PvP than just weapons.
this.
1. Teamwork
b. call out heals
c. ask for help
d. point out trouble spots (ex: ONE enemy ship doing multiple times the damage of any other needs to be dealt with)
2. Skills/abilities
b. Captain skill tree reconfigured for best advantage for those BO skills
3. Ship
b. consoles loadout
c. engines/shields/deflector loadout
d. power level presets (yes this is worth mentioning, you want to set them to take proper advantage of your skills and abilities)
and then you get into ground stuff too, which I wont go into as I prefer space and dont have the knowledge to help with ground.
oh, and you need to experiment with lowered graphics settings if you are having problems. (maybe avoid solar wind map too.. hate to say that but its graphics intensive.)
I imagine that this mindset does not help.
Nope. And after reading your post, it's rather clear to me why you're experiencing this.
Try teamwork. Work together, call out targets, concentrate your fire, use some basic tactics and you'll do much better.
All the purple gear in the world is meaningless if you don't know how to use it effectively.
me and 3 fleet mates and a friend of fleet in Cracked Planoid map. 5 Fed in tight formation, looked like a premade. we communicate and pick target, battle starts....ouch... Feds 5, Klingons 1.
regroup, communicate, make plan, attack, Feds 5, Klingons 6. sofar so good.... then, to our surprise, every fed starts to fly in SOLO at full impuls... doh.... Feds 5, Klingons 15, game set and match
We flew 1 cruiser, 1 carrier, 3 raptors (could be 2 raptors and BoP, but i am sure we had 3 raptors..). Cruiser and carrierwere healing, rest doing DPS.....
Team work, communicate, tactics and ofc skils and BO setup.
Space combat is much more fluid and dynamic than any other type of combat. Teamwork, support etc all play major roles.
Ever since the most recent patch, the Federation has drastically improved in PvP performance at max level. Matches that used to be 5 minute wins for the Klingons have turned into 15 to 20 minutes (or more) slugging matches with their outcomes very much unknown with the average PUGs.
Truly organized Federation groups have gone from tough to borderline unbeatable.
I don't know what you're doing wrong, but it isn't because the Klingons are OP.....
You know what's even worse ... a lot of those Klingons beating you up are doing it with Uncommon MkX weapons all around their ships, because very rares are just a pretty color.
X-Men story from awhile back. Age of Apocalypse.
Klingon vs Fed
Organised feds win sometimes, unorganised feds rarely win.
Organised or unorganised klings can and do win the vast majority of the time
If we collated th satistics from the matches I think the data would be overwhelmingly in the klingons favour
I think the main reasons are:
Cloak makes it very easy for klings to get set up for a powerful attack and to regroup on the rare occasion your killed, this is a big advantage.
Most klingon ships can mount 3 x dual cannon and/or dual beams and a torp up front this means that in most instances klingons have far greater firepower and this allows huge damage spikes, any slight advantage which may be gained from slightly better shields or slightly better hulls on the fed side are entirely totally overwhelmed by the these huge damage spikes when a fed is targetd by a few klings and as said it is easy to set up davastating attacks using cloak.
Good and Bad players on both sides , but with average players of similar abilities on both sides I would think say klingon ships for the win
Klingon's pretty much PvP from day 1, so naturally we have a little bit better experience with it. And we also typically know to support each other. Of course with PUG PvP instances this does not always happen, but for the most part it does. It's not the ships, it's not broken skills it is simple team work. Period.
i suggest recruiting a new fleet
with guys that know all the stat stuff and purple numbers
and then pretend you are the leader and say " all forward and ready at the helm" and stuff and then hide behind all the good players and click "mask enemy signature" and after they target everyone else then unmask and shoot
this is the "Traxell Manuever" so named for my fed that is at luitenent now but has a feel for the future
the evidence is clear
The Klingon ships have a significant advantage in PvP. It takes several forms.
Their hull and shields are comparable to Federation equivalents. However, Klingon ships all have Cloaks, all have superior manueverability and all have superior firepower.
The Cloak allows a huge tactical advantage, specifically, the ability to choose when and where to attack as well as the first strike (which is usually decisive in itself).
Superior manueverability means they can continue to attack weak shields of targets while being able to turn their own weak shields away from attackers.
The superior firepower comes from the fact that all Klingon ships can mount heavy cannons, which VASTLY increases damage output, especially in that furst strike (which they're almost guaranteed to have...).
Thus, all else being equal, Klingons will always have the advantage in PvP.
On the off chance you are a normal person like myself that just wants a bit of fun, don't PvP!
The meanest thing you can do to these people is leave them to themselves. They will eventually turn on each other in their need to win at PvP no matter what.
Just sit at the spawning starbase and minimize the game and go off and check your email and such.
Close your chat window, believe me there is nothing there you need.
You get your badges and don't have to deal with the grief.
Occasionally one of the really bright ones will try to get you at the starbase and instaspload because of the 20 or so turrets there, That is amusing.
To be fair this is not just the Klingons. The FvF matches are all science dweebs with equally nubered ships.
Also try to get a Galaxy X ship. This will be a good equalizer.
Its simple really. Just boycott PVP. If we don't play they will have to fix this!! I am seriously considering just doing my PVP dailys and just flying in and dieing over and over. Theres no point in trying if your just going to get killed in two seconds. Theres nothing realistic and fun ab out PVP in STO. Even if you play the Klingon faction you just gert this false sense of superiority. I have had no success what so ever in PVP. I have tried many times to just sail on the fail boat once more. Fix this Cryptic Please!!!!!
I dont really understand how you can ever have teamwork in a game where you cannot even talk with your team. Its impossible to sit there and type messages and do combat without getting wasted every time. This game lacks seroius in game community communication and interaction. Whats the point in Massively online MMO? when you cannot communicate during the game.
Totally agree, on a PVP match there should be an additional chat setting (like zone, local, team, fleet chat) called FACTION chat, that will speak only to your side and not the other.
When I pvp properly it is with my fleet or friends and we vent as it is much easier to communicate targets etc here. However, for dailies and on occasion I will go into a PUG pvp and this is when communication is difficult. Sometimes people will not join your team or you will have a split team (eg 3 and 2) so team chat will not work. Also on large CTF maps there are more ships than you can have in a team so the only way to communicate with them all is to put something in Zone chat that the enemy will be able to read.
This is not a complicated addition and I rally think Cryptic should look into it as it would improve the ability to communicate in pvp.
Here's a couple clues... free and on the house.
- Team Up and use Team Work.
- Do not venture out by yourself. Go in pairs at the very, very least. Stay close to the group. As a KDF player primarily, Feds have a notoriously terrible habit of going off by themselves, while Klingons go in small groups at least. Lonely Feds are easy meals.
- Support your Teammates. I can have a fair chance of expecting support from fellow KDF players, even in PUGs. Feds have a nasty habit of not giving support to each other, preferring to keep such abilities for themselves.
- Decide as to what your ship will be doing and optimize EVERYTHING towards that end. Do not be a jack of all trades, because you'll be totally worthless and not capable of doing anything well.
- Continuously look at your build and setup and finding ways to change things for an improvement. Or just simply look at how you're fighting and how it affects the team.
- Experiment in trying new things out.
- Keep on fighting. Again and again.
When you see people with high scores and such, don't stamp your feet and pout. How about asking how in the hell did they do that to begin with? In all likeliness, they won't tell. But a few may, and you may learn a thing or two, or at the very least, get inspiration to do something different towards success.
If you're not having success in PvP, keeping on trying the same thing you were doing and expecting success will only lead to more failure.
If you're one of those guys that will just "Boycott PvP" (/snicker), then if for some miraculous reason you come in later to PvP again... you'll still suck.
Nothing will ensure your mediocrity better, for longer periods of time, if you always cast blame on outside sources for your own failures. Look towards what YOU are doing first before pointing at others. You may be doing something very wrong or just don't have that experience just yet.
generally when you get 2 second killed, its an alpha strike from a tactical heavy ship. Running full weapons power with 2 fore heavy cannons, and a quantum. attack pattern alpha a some sort of shield power dropping ability,the possibility is high that the cannons are phaser cannons givng a chance to drop a subsystem. I run phasers for this reason as my klingon.
the best way to not die to an alpha like this, is to expect it, or have an ally "on the ball" with a shield extension, and/or science team/engineering team.
or avoid the player all-together, and pick off the easier players. I have had to do this many times.
Still have trouble with escorts popping up and blowing me away with their overwhelming firepower, but them's the breaks!
Here's some of my tips:
-Never let them attack you first. The guy who fires the first volley usually wins. If that happens, disengage immediately by any means.
-Save your evasive manuvers so you can try to outdistance your opponent. He'll usually break off to go for an easier target. If not, you can still outdistance him with emergency power to engines, ramming speed, etc, after you use your evasive manuvers.
-Placate, Tractor Beam, whatever you can use to throw sand in his face, make him stop firing, to get some distance... use it!
With that being said, I agree. Klingon factions are better. Their ships have more universal stations, they tend to perform a little better and they fight harder. However, it's the Klingon player's mindset that sets them apart. As a feddie, the mindset is to be Captain Kirk, the lone gunslinger. As a Klingon, the mindset is that you're a face wrecking space viking, out to win, to pillage, to burn. You're not trying to be the lone ranger. You're out to fight a war! Mindset can be a powerful thing.
The best thing to do is always be ready to react to incoming fire. Have an escape route, or a plan to pop some BO skills quickly. Always have a plan.
2. The difference between winning and losing is how well organized you are.
3. Having purple weapons and being higher level doesn't matter when 5 klingons who are working as a team pop you like a balloon.
In short PvP is about team work using your powers to support and assist your team mates not running off and getting yourself killed. You will be fighting people on vent calling out targets, healing each other and generally making a mockery of you... So if you can't beat them join them:)