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An epic weapon any time you like = dead economy

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Well since now you can buy the best wepaons in the game (excluding the Borg procs whihc are only good against Borg anyway) for the price of a btran and a couple of pvp matches the economy in STO is dead.

I have never played an MMO where there is absolutely no challenge what so ever in getting epic weapons and have it take all of 30 minutes at worst.

What was the thinking behind this? What is there to aim for now? Why have you killed the market for blue X's and green MkIX's overnight?

So the exchange is now good for...what? shield batteries and Romulan Osol Twists?

When any player of any skill lvl can have any weapon (including Borg as the infected is now so easy as to be a joke) those people who are looking for a long term challenge will move on - and those are the people who would have been paying subs for perhaps years to come.

And while i'm qqing, on a different subject, if you don't slow down the constant nerfs and boosts to skills how the heck are you going to know what effect the constant tinkering is going to have? What exactly is happening here, do you just pick a class each month and nerf the hell out of them? First it was Sci, now it's going to be Cruisers and Escourt are to follow? Stop tinkering, take a breath, step back, stop listening to the minority that cry out for nerfs on these forums and slow down please.
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    While I agree, it is unfortunatly not the only MMO to do this. Some more than others, but it looks like Cryptic are taking the same approach as Blizzard is with WoW. Which incidently takes a lot less time to become "full epic" than it does in STO.

    I'm personally fine with the badge system, as a mechanic. There just needs to be many more varied ways of getting them and the number of badges required increased.

    Regarding the nerfs and buffs. Every single MMO has the exact same problem. Things will never be balanced and there will always be changes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    And by economy you mean "rewarding people who spend hours grinding for drops". No thanks.

    As far as how & why things get nerfed / buffed / changed, you really need to hang out on Tribble discussions more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Actually, it takes quite a long time to get "epiced out". By only doing B'tran dailies, it will take 43 days to get all purples (Not counting consoles). You need 212 marks of exploration and you only get 5 a day.

    Oh, that's only counting space. Including ground, you need an extra 44 marks of exploration (not counting BOs).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    funny, i still have blue engines that are better than any purple offered through the craptastic purple syste, (6.8 turn)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yes, lets condemn a system that doesn't force people to either a) grind for endless hours praying for a drop, b) grind endless hours to get enough gold to purchase ridiculously priced items off the exchange.

    The badge system is near-perfect the way it is. There is a steady, consistant progession towards a goal. None of the "OMG, I hope I roll good enough to get an item at the end of this raid!", no "ZOMG, this is the 93rd raid I have gone on and gotten zilch." If you play consistantly, do your dailies you can get epic'd out without the BS. It isn't 'easy' and it isn't 'hard'. It takes consistant, moderate effort. It allows casual players, and hard-core players alike to be able to progress to the same goal. The only way I can see to improve it is to have the ability to downgrade/upgrade badges & marks.

    Pardon me for not supporting the 'economy' the way you want, ie, your pocketbook. Any economy that bases itself off drops isn't a economy... it's just a system that rewards people that have the time and mindset to grind more than the rest of us. I may not play as much as you, and may not have your luck, but that doesn't mean I don't deserve a reward for my efforts.

    You want a real economy, go play UO... 90% of the stuff sold is made by other players. Or was when I stopped playing. I hope and PRAY that Cryptic will bite the bullet and put in place a real, honest to god crafting system. One in which people actively seek out crafters and materials. What they have in place right now is... horrible. You want a real economy, give us one that encourages us to seek out other players for our daily needs and upgrade desires.

    If your version of an economy is derived from WoW or this game, then you are SORELY mistaken about what an economy really is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This thread and its contents are not very relevant. The pruple very rare items are not "epic" in any sense of the word. The color is the same color as epic items from some other MMO. But that's not how itemization works in this game. The difference between an uncommon Mk X weapon and a very rare Mk X weapon of the same type is insignificant. The base damage is the same. Your "green" Phaser Bank is certainly not outclassed by your "purple" phaser bank.

    So the entire premise this thread is based on, is faulty.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    This thread and its contents are not very relevant. The pruple very rare items are not "epic" in any sense of the word. The color is the same color as epic items from some other MMO. But that's not how itemization works in this game. The difference between an uncommon Mk X weapon and a very rare Mk X weapon of the same type is insignificant. The base damage is the same. Your "green" Phaser Bank is certainly not outclassed by your "purple" phaser bank.

    So the entire premise this thread is based on, is faulty.

    Usual pretentious, judgemental, self satisfied posts on the forum i see. Makes no difference at all what they are called. People will work towards the 'best' or 'rarest' items in game. If this is ridiculously easy what is the point?

    And to the previous poster, what are you talking about 'my pocket book' there's nothing to spend it on anyway and that's not the point. It's not about how many credits you can collect (despite the fact that you just went and decided that's what I was posting about) it's about the challenge.

    Meh, forum posters - so pleased with themselves behind their screens, putting the world and everyone in it to rights because they think they know what other are thinking better than the person actually speaking. You crack me up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wd_harding wrote:
    Usual pretentious, judgemental, self satisfied posts on the forum i see. Makes no difference at all what they are called. People will work towards the 'best' or 'rarest' items in game. If this is ridiculously easy what is the point?

    Your logic is faulty. And when that is pointed out, you resort to base insults. That accomplishes nothing.

    The logic ... the facts of the situation ... are clear.

    The 2.5% difference between one special process action that the purple colored item of the same name has is not significant enough to support your main idea.

    The economy does not run off of the paradigm you believe it does.

    Because this game was not designed around the itemization you think it has.

    If you'd take a moment to notice that, your fears and hopefully your insults would give way to logic, reason and fact.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    i just think it sucks, they finally start dropping more loot (elite settings) only for the items to be worthless because i already got all my purple gear...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm waiting to see what the new crafting system has to offer first. It maybe a way to inject items in the economy. But the biggest fall back is not the amount of purples in the system, but the Bind on Pickup (well that and limited to Admiral).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    matteo716 wrote: »
    i just think it sucks, they finally start dropping more loot (elite settings) only for the items to be worthless because i already got all my purple gear...

    Well, the specific purple gear sold is very, very generic,

    Unfortunately, in space, all weapons sold or dropped are generic. If we had the baseline purple store and a wider range of bonuses that space weapons could have, there would be blue and green items out there that some people would value more situationally than the basic purps. As it stands the only ones I think that applies to now are [Acc]x2 blues for people who don't stat up for crits or [CrtD]x2/[CrtH]x2 blues for those that do. If there were standardized ranges of items that had unusual qualities like many of the mission rewards, those would make good crafting and drop merchandise.

    Without that diversity, though, the purple gear weapons sold are just (marginally, at least) better than almost any drop you'll encounter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wd_harding wrote:
    Usual pretentious, judgemental, self satisfied posts on the forum i see. Makes no difference at all what they are called. People will work towards the 'best' or 'rarest' items in game. If this is ridiculously easy what is the point?

    And to the previous poster, what are you talking about 'my pocket book' there's nothing to spend it on anyway and that's not the point. It's not about how many credits you can collect (despite the fact that you just went and decided that's what I was posting about) it's about the challenge.

    Meh, forum posters - so pleased with themselves behind their screens, putting the world and everyone in it to rights because they think they know what other are thinking better than the person actually speaking. You crack me up.

    Since you don't like their posts, how about this.

    I like the system as it is and do not want it changed. I do want more options and better crafting, but I do not want to grind, have to be lucky, or pay ridiculous Exchange prices to get top end gear.

    I have done the STFs - a lot - and have come away with nothing useful. Either I didn't win the roll or the item was TRIBBLE, not for my class, or not for my build. And since all these items are bind on pickup you cannot even shuffle them to an alt or sell them on the Exchange for a decent profit. That's hours upon hours of time spent with no improvement to my equipment. So leave the badge system alone. Without it I'd still be using TRIBBLE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Your logic is faulty. And when that is pointed out, you resort to base insults. That accomplishes nothing.

    The logic ... the facts of the situation ... are clear.

    The 2.5% difference between one special process action that the purple colored item of the same name has is not significant enough to support your main idea.

    The economy does not run off of the paradigm you believe it does.

    Because this game was not designed around the itemization you think it has.

    If you'd take a moment to notice that, your fears and hopefully your insults would give way to logic, reason and fact.

    My logic is just fine and my insults were anything but 'base', and using polysylabic words doesn't make you any more impressive or correct.

    People strive for what is perceived to be the 'best' gear regardless of what it is called or what it is actually worth. People use this gear to demonstrate their prowess in game and strut a little which is all perfectly fine. When the 'best' gear can easily be obtained by any chimp with a mouse there is nothing left to aim for. 2.5% difference is still a difference and people will strive to achieve it, and that is ther point that you miss. This is a game, it's not all about computing percentages it's about fun, and fun is often having a laugh, showing off a little, working towards targets and being better than the next guy :) Fun is not banding the word logic about the forums like a neurotic Vulcan with a complex.

    Your percentages are irrelevant to me, but they do support my point exactly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Galtrovan wrote: »
    Since you don't like their posts, how about this.

    I like the system as it is and do not want it changed. I do want more options and better crafting, but I do not want to grind, be lucky, or pay ridiculous Exchange prices to get top end gear.

    I have done the STFs - a lot - and have come away with nothing useful. Either I didn't win the roll or the item was TRIBBLE, not for my class, or not for my build. And since all these items are bind on pickup you cannot even shuffle them to an alt or sell them on the Exchange for a decent profit. That's hours upon hours of time spent with no improvement to my equipment. So leave the badge system alone. Without it I'd still be using TRIBBLE.

    Thank you, a reasoned post that disagrees weith what I am saying without deciding you know what the poster is talking about better than they do or indeed deciding that the entire post is irreleavnt. This is the sort of post that forums are supposed to attract.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'd like to add one thing here. Why are people upset with the, quote: "Worthlessness" of purple items.

    I mean, if you are going to sell them... what exactly are you going to buy? This is not an item-centric game and credits are worth nothing. Unless you change every BOs outfit 15 times a day for a month straight... I just don't see the need for credits at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wd_harding wrote:
    What was the thinking behind this? What is there to aim for now? Why have you killed the market for blue X's and green MkIX's overnight?
    The thinking??? I dont know but the peal from players on the forums might have had something to do with it. Players went on and on and on (for various reasons) about how they dont have epic/high-end/elite(ie purple) weapons.
    Players got what they asked for.....

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    taishojojo wrote: »
    The thinking??? I dont know but the peal from players on the forums might have had something to do with it. Players went on and on and on (for various reasons) about how they dont have epic/high-end/elite(ie purple) weapons.
    Players got what they asked for.....

    :cool:

    No, they went on and on and on about how the only ones being sold in the purple shop were of a kind nobody in their right mind would spec for and that the selections in the green shop were nonsensical and random.

    Still didn't do anything about the greens :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    matteo716 wrote: »
    i just think it sucks, they finally start dropping more loot (elite settings) only for the items to be worthless because i already got all my purple gear...

    Yes, but you know, not everyone has, but I bet a lot of ppl have alts that would love to buy it off the Exchange if everyone and thier brother didn't think a Blue Mk IX is worth 500,000 EC.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm waiting to see what the new crafting system has to offer first.

    Nothing yet. The changes are on tribble. It's streamlined, and much easier to use. It's much clearer. And makes it worth doing.

    But all the items are the exact same. It'll be quite some time before new recipes make it in.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wd_harding wrote:
    My logic is just fine and my insults were anything but 'base', and using polysylabic words doesn't make you any more impressive or correct.

    Your logic is faulty. Because the loot and itemization system you are ascribing to this game does not exist in this game. You are thinking itemization works like it did in some other game you've played.

    It does not.

    The difference between a Green Mk X Phaser and a Purple Mk X Antiproton weapon was not significant.

    And that was the system that existed PRIOR to the latest patch.

    People were extremely effective in gameplay using green weapons of a beam type they preferred.

    Because the itemization progression is tied to the MK level and not the rarity.

    The 2.5% difference between the rarities is not significant. That is on purpose. That is by design. Cryptic did not make an itemization that falls into the paradigm you are trying to force onto the game.

    You may WANT that purple to be epic.

    It is not.

    It is simply slightly better than the items with other colors.

    This has always been the case.

    Itemization is directly tied to level progression. This is Cryptic's way of controlling mudflation better than the MMOs you are more experienced with. This is also Cryptic's way of catering to the more casual player who does not want to feel forced into "raiding" to acquire the best loot.

    Or purchasing it for large sums of money off of the exchange.

    This is why your logic fails. The facts. The way the game is designed. It does not, and never has, fit the loot system you want.

    Your PURPLE item is not epic. Never was. Never will be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The economy is messed up anyways. People asking for 25k for some level 3 item. Last I checked, EPS Flow Console MK III 100k. The worst part is people will buy it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Your logic is faulty. Because the loot and itemization system you are ascribing to this game does not exist in this game. You are thinking itemization works like it did in some other game you've played.

    It does not.

    The difference between a Green Mk X Phaser and a Purple Mk X Antiproton weapon was not significant.

    And that was the system that existed PRIOR to the latest patch.

    People were extremely effective in gameplay using green weapons of a beam type they preferred.

    Because the itemization progression is tied to the MK level and not the rarity.

    The 2.5% difference between the rarities is not significant. That is on purpose. That is by design. Cryptic did not make an itemization that falls into the paradigm you are trying to force onto the game.

    You may WANT that purple to be epic.

    It is not.

    It is simply slightly better than the items with other colors.

    This has always been the case.

    Itemization is directly tied to level progression. This is Cryptic's way of controlling mudflation better than the MMOs you are more experienced with. This is also Cryptic's way of catering to the more casual player who does not want to feel forced into "raiding" to acquire the best loot.

    Or purchasing it for large sums of money off of the exchange.

    This is why your logic fails. The facts. The way the game is designed. It does not, and never has, fit the loot system you want.

    Your PURPLE item is not epic. Never was. Never will be.

    I've red a lot of back and forth exchanges on the forums but this is really the first time I can say this.

    That sir, was an epic response. I wanted to use the term burn, but I'd like to remain civil in the matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I would assume more people now a days work or do something productive most their days then mmo players years past. That would be because the industry has grown and millions more play mmo's now.
    So with limited time, playing a game requiring more hours then another game might will just promt customers to buy that other game. With so many good games now out, more people now play more then one mmo leaving even less time for grinding.

    Being able to obtain whatever weapon whenever is not a negative thing unless bragging rights to the effect, I have no real life opportunities worth experiencing that out weigh siting in this chair for far too many hours is important to me. I don't know if I would even tell anyone that now that I think of it :).
    Or buy some game cash from a spammer would work I guess... Especially in PVP. Every player should have access to equipt equall to their opponent. Should be skill not equiptement. Unless losers want an excuse to lose or losers need the advantage to win.

    Myself, I can't afford jack in STO dough, a hair below making the first promotion and have not spent a dime on anything. Have a couple hundred which wont even buy the supplies for med mission. I get access to new class ships, etc, etc and wont be able to buy fuel to run it. How do you make money in this game? Stuff in AH for low levels are set at insanely high prices.

    Economy? Study the so called economy in the game. Realize these epic weapons being rare and sold for amounts beyond possible for 90 percent the population. That model will mirror the worste possible economy. When the population can't pay the money for prices asked, Government Prints More Money. So equate the scenerio to an MMO, No wonder there are so many Gold Sellers.

    Allow weapons to be purchased in C-store for all i care. Why would anyone care what anyone else has? Shouldn't what YOU have be important to you? Hell, people if they have extra usually give them to someone who is looking when the community is cool.

    For those who Have the time to spend grinding, thats great you get stuff Free. I have spent embarrasing amounts of double digit hours grinding for days when time permits, still do when not working. But for those who are fortunate enough to work a lot of hours to afford the computer, games, etc, beer, etc, let em buy the stuff in C-Store, who cares what other people have? Its hours put in one way or another no matter what, bottom line these things were worked for. The REal difference is, the hours put into the later of the two scenerios is Better for the both game and real life economy.

    Most important, Rare items put in AH for stupid prices promotes buying game cash outside the game. And when someone says not many people buy game cash from sellers. Ask why there are so many succesfull gold sellers out there. Research it, its surprising what an industry it is. Yea but Not in this game. Yea its proportionate to the population. All mmo's should go the route buy it or earn it, It's being done anyway.
    Wouldn't you want the game company to benifit rather then people cheating from a third world country not contributing anything in the way of sales tax. Duh, just raise the income taxes to the game company, their employees and everyone else living in the country where the game was made.

    Sell the stuff in C-Store, Support Cryptics people. Don't give us the "well don't buy gold from gold sellers" and put stuff in the AH prices beyond reasonable at the same time. The economy in game would flow if supply and demand were met without restrictions set by greedy players.

    Only way to controll market manipulation is open the flood gates and drown the manipulators. Vote Yes, Sell everything in C-store while not changing its ease of earning in game.
    Some will buy some will not, so what if my neighbor, friend, enemy, buys ubersphincter gear? why should I care?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Galtrovan wrote: »
    Since you don't like their posts, how about this.

    I like the system as it is and do not want it changed. I do want more options and better crafting, but I do not want to grind, have to be lucky, or pay ridiculous Exchange prices to get top end gear.

    I have done the STFs - a lot - and have come away with nothing useful. Either I didn't win the roll or the item was TRIBBLE, not for my class, or not for my build. And since all these items are bind on pickup you cannot even shuffle them to an alt or sell them on the Exchange for a decent profit. That's hours upon hours of time spent with no improvement to my equipment. So leave the badge system alone. Without it I'd still be using TRIBBLE.

    QFE.

    I do the STF missions with my fleet mates for fun. I have received one drop that was worth it to me (a Science Borg Medical Kit) and I view that as a bonus. It might not be interesting for some players but I enjoy taking new RA's through Infected etc so they can learn the STF and have some fun. Not so we grind them every day for gear.

    I like the fact in STO I have only bought food for my Tribbles from the exchange and all my gear was from Episodes and badges. It is a pleasant change from the raid grind present in other games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't think the economy is dead. And there are reasons for it.

    People don't want to grind to get those Purple items. Or even those green items. I don't buy purple items because they are ridiciliously priced. But I do buy other stuff, particularly at lower levels. Getting Phaser Dual or Heavy Dual Cannons can be difficult, so looking at the Exchange for acquiring them is a good method. Even if they were in the exploration store, I might not prefer to just buy them, as I don't want to spend that much time in the Exploration clusters and outlevelling the story missions.

    If I was looking for specific bonuses, it's unlikely I find them in a store or from drops. The exchange is great for that. (And if you are looking for such items and don't find them on the Exchange, there is actually a reason to grind, too...)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't understand why people just aren't content to get drops. Works fine for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't think the economy is dead. And there are reasons for it.

    People don't want to grind to get those Purple items. Or even those green items. I don't buy purple items because they are ridiciliously priced. But I do buy other stuff, particularly at lower levels. Getting Phaser Dual or Heavy Dual Cannons can be difficult, so looking at the Exchange for acquiring them is a good method. Even if they were in the exploration store, I might not prefer to just buy them, as I don't want to spend that much time in the Exploration clusters and outlevelling the story missions.

    If I was looking for specific bonuses, it's unlikely I find them in a store or from drops. The exchange is great for that. (And if you are looking for such items and don't find them on the Exchange, there is actually a reason to grind, too...)

    Your right, i dont know if people even think about a potential customer when putting items for sale or are they just lame, TRIBBLE or storing the stuff.

    An interesting concept would be allow C-store items to be bought and sold for game cash. Think about it, it would bring items worth right into perspective. Economy would flow, Gold sellers would go away as long as c-store prices vs items sale on market stays within reason.

    Yea it will never happen because C-Store is the vehichle Cryptic uses to supplement income to stay alive, pay bills, mow the lawn, buy beer, etc. etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wd_harding wrote:

    I have never played an MMO where there is absolutely no challenge what so ever in getting epic weapons and have it take all of 30 minutes at worst.



    When any player of any skill lvl can have any weapon (including Borg as the infected is now so easy as to be a joke) those people who are looking for a long term challenge will move on - and those are the people who would have been paying subs for perhaps years to come.

    I take it you never played WoW?

    Pugs....epic drops (and badges)....lousy players....no challenge....yup.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Simple way to make an crafting economy in this game is make the crafted gear better in pvp then the purple gear not much but just a little bit , Then on top of that you add decay on each time you die wich will have to be repaired by a repair kit that crafters make , and after a set number of repairs based on quality of the item it will perma break... at wich point players will buy a new one from the crafters..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dryan wrote:
    While I agree, it is unfortunatly not the only MMO to do this. Some more than others, but it looks like Cryptic are taking the same approach as Blizzard is with WoW. Which incidently takes a lot less time to become "full epic" than it does in STO.

    I'm personally fine with the badge system, as a mechanic. There just needs to be many more varied ways of getting them and the number of badges required increased.

    Regarding the nerfs and buffs. Every single MMO has the exact same problem. Things will never be balanced and there will always be changes.

    It's true, I remember the raging that was going on when I left because people had spent months to get fully geared in epic loot and then they introduced a badge system that allowed virtually any new player to get equally geared in weeks simply by running dailies and collecting badges. Personally I didn't mind because It was a great way to help new 80s bridge the gap between TRIBBLE gear to raid ready.
    I'm sure that eventually STO will introduce harder STFes and a new tier set for gear much like WoW does, at which point all your MK-X gear will simply be a crutch to help you get your MK-XI gear. At that point new RA5 players will need the current badge system in order to catch up w/ all the other RA5s that are already fully geared in purple MK-X and starting to get their MK-XI.
    As for Nerfs it's obviously going to be an ongoing issue of balancing out classes and factions (mostly for PvP purposes). It's the same problem that WoW has had ever sine they introduced PvP. A perfect example was the Death Knight class they added w/ the last expansion, anyone who made a DK when they were first introduced can tell you that the class barely resembles what it started out as. It is unlikely that we will ever see an end to class tinkering because of PvP, because on the one hand you will have people screaming bloody murder when they get nerfed but on the other you have them screaming bloody murder if others don't get nerfed, one side will always claim that the other is OPed and so on. I believe that I read an interview where one of the Blizzard devs was asked what his biggest regret was and he said introducing PvP because ever since then it's been a constant battle to balance out skills so that players are not too OPed in PvP and at the same time keep the skills viable for PvE.
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