I'm primarily a PVE gamer, but I've reached RA5, am currently out of PVE content, and need Medals of Honor for purple gear, so I tried FvF PVP today. This is the only MMO I've ever played and I have basically no PVP experience. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty. I died many times, quickly, often without even seeing what it was that killed me or even having time to click a single boff ability. Clearly, there are skilled players mixed in with us noobs. So, sorry for the stupid question, but why isn't there a handicap system?
Also, aside from reading some of the highly useful PVP guides already in this forum, are there any suggestions on how to improve my PVP experience?
Your true "handicap" is lack of knowlege (no offence).
IMHO Cryptic should keep an updated version of a (Work In Progress) Manual, which contains each skill, how to use, examples of use, tips on triggering extra specials, and how to counter. For each skill, also list related (influencing) char skills, consoles, equipment, etc.
Knowlege is the key to leveling the playing field.
A Cryptic manual could never be on par with the current player "abuse" of certain abilities, seen as global information database it could help a bit. But of course: PvP fights are the best way to improve your performance - especially since you don't lose anything in pvp (maybe beside your pride).
@ handicap system: Once Cryptic adds leaderboards something like this could be done to balance pugs. However by now it would be a huge improvement if they were capable of balancing fights numerical. FvF, 5vs2...
While knowledge is certainly a key factor in performance, knowledge alone can not level the playing field. Just as in golf, knowledge (and equipment) can only get you so far. Individual skill, natural talent, and indeed practice, also come into play. If you want PVP to be fun to play for people of all skill and interest levels, a handicap system needs to be introduced. No one enjoys getting owned all the time.
While knowledge is certainly a key factor in performance, knowledge alone can not level the playing field. Just as in golf, knowledge (and equipment) can only get you so far. Individual skill, natural talent, and indeed practice, also come into play.
Absolutely right. Knowlege isnt the end-all of pvp. Getting everyone up to speed (knowledge wise) is the starting point.
Currently this IS the major hurdle.
If you want PVP to be fun to play for people of all skill levels, a handicap system needs to be introduced. No one enjoys getting owned all the time.
Finding a good fleet to fly with IMHO is a far better solution than further splitting up the queue system, which does not have enough players to begin with. Maybe sitting in the noob queue waiting for action for 6 hours will help you to appreciate that. OFC at that point most of us will be gone.
While knowledge is certainly a key factor in performance, knowledge alone can not level the playing field. Just as in golf, knowledge (and equipment) can only get you so far. Individual skill, natural talent, and indeed practice, also come into play. If you want PVP to be fun to play for people of all skill and interest levels, a handicap system needs to be introduced. No one enjoys getting owned all the time.
in golf, like u mention, there are "tiers" of ranking ur handicap. Like someone stated, u need a well developed leaderboard to see who gets what handicap then. Do premades get a severe handicap due to their prowess as a solid crew then?
Truth be told, u started PvPing too late. The distinction Cryptic tried to make is getting players to PvP from the getgo(lieutenant level) thus when reaching RA5, u would know how to keep up ur own pants.
Expecting Cryptic to solve or punish other players for ur dis-interest in PvP is not fair nor logical.
The only solution for "not so skilled PvPers" would be too choose from two seperate skill levels urself, so people can choose to play against peers. This would have the downside of splitting an already downsized PvP environment thus waiiting even longer for a solid game. An added downside would be that these players would not learn valuable lessons from their defeats.
So, letting players choose whom to fight could be an option, but there is also the option, of trying to better ur own skills via the lessons learned from ur defeats. Most succesful PvP "specialists" now were n00bs and bad in the beginning, they chose to rise to the challenge.
I'm not suggesting we split up the queue system. A handicap system like that found in golf is specifically meant to allow players of differing skill levels to play each other on the same course at the same time. The game remains the same, only scoring changes. Such could be the case here. A high handicap player (a noob) could be given buffs (or a the low handicap player could be given debuffs, or both) to even the playing field, so to speak. Of course, this assumes people want PVP matched to be competitive and not lopsided.
And yes, I know I can get purple gear from just doing exploration missions. Stats of certain items aren't the same between the two stores. Besides, isn't getting more people to PVP a good thing?
I'm not sure how suggesting a handicap system is punishing other players for my own disinterest. I have several posts and heard commments from many in-game that PVP is declining. Part of that decline is certainly caused by frustration at perceived inequities in the game of PVP. Myself, I'm a glutton for punishment and I intend to stick around and learn the ropes, but for the greater good of the game might we not consider a handicap system?
Uhm nothing personal...but i think its too much work for people, who need 3 matches per day only to get their badges...and if you pvp more...you dont need that handicap system as you will learn...
Sooo sorry, but from my point of view, its waste of development resources...
You say you've played for the first time or very little...be persistent-you encountered actuall opponents unlike those from PVE which are child's play.More instances are not needed in this game-if you are not a RA the you can wait for pvp for half an hour,that's how little players are willing to pvp
please the "handicap" system would be horrid. i enjoy the fact that what my gear does in pve it does in pvp. a phaser dosent care what it shoots at. if you truely wan to see where handicap pvp leads to ask anyone in eq2 about pvp/battlegrounds. eq2 is now unstable due to the pvp system there.
but since you asked here are some tips.
you started right by asking questions
read the pvp section
try fed v fed. why? same stuff you have no cloaks.
look at the debuffs and grahpic tell tales that thier powers use
most importanly.. if, er when you get owned DONT CRY. try sending a polite pm to that player and asking about what he hit you with. some wont tell you but some will. if they reply thank them. everyone wants to win but some enjoy a well fought fight where you run thru everyting you have 3 times before help arrives and almost makes you feel bad.
the only handicap i would want is if i enter pvp and i see coderanger's borg sphere. as i would go from alive to handicaped to crippled to dead to we aint kidding you're dead. in .02 seconds which is a long time for an andriod or a borg and i am neither
I'm not sure how a handicap system would work for this game. I do understand what the issue is though. It is really hard to learn what to do and what not to when you don't survive long enough to see your attacker(s). After I avoided PvP all the way up to RA5 I found it horribly frustrating that everything I thought I did well amounted to almost nothing against smarter players (and there are loads of them). Learning what abilities you and your opponents have is certainly the first big step to surviving but time and practice is the only way you'll train yourself to use them effectively.
I know it's a huge time investment but you will not get better at fighting most of these guys without investing loads of it. They already have and they won't lose that advantage. Once I got to RA5 I enrolled a Klingon character so I wouldn't get side tracked by quick exp missions. I feel like I'm loads better than I was (which doesn't really say much) and i still get rolled most of the time (especially by premades). I don't expect to ever be better than the people who have more experience than I do.
Learn the best counters and how to identify what your up against.
Stick to your group as you'll never live long enough to learn much alone.
Find a fleet that you can work well with and who will support you.
Rank up another character through PvP primarily.
And when you have questions, keep asking them in the calm reasonable manner that you made this thread. So many people get in over their heads and decide to cry nerf or exploit to ruin things for others instead of trying to figure out what they themselves can do better. Good luck!
No handicap systems for PvP. Everyone willing to PvP should learn to play just like everyone else who plays PvP. To handicap one player so another player can have a pleasant experience and a gentle learning curve is wrong on so many levels.
No handicap systems for PvP. Everyone willing to PvP should learn to play just like everyone else who plays PvP. To handicap one player so another player can have a pleasant experience and a gentle learning curve is wrong on so many levels.
this echoes my beliefs on any form of handicapping system.
this echoes my beliefs on any form of handicapping system.
It has always been the "understood" rule of PvP. If you play, you take your lumps like everybody else did, or don't play.
Nobody likes to be ganked or griefed that I know of, but if someone can't it when it happens then maybe they should not play PvP.
I can only think that those who do need or want a handicap to balance the PvP field are just children of the "entitlement" generation and it makes me sad.
We all play the same game. It should be the better person/crew wins. If one doesn't like gettin their shinny ship scratched, then stay in the Sol System.
While knowledge is certainly a key factor in performance, knowledge alone can not level the playing field. Just as in golf, knowledge (and equipment) can only get you so far. Individual skill, natural talent, and indeed practice, also come into play. If you want PVP to be fun to play for people of all skill and interest levels, a handicap system needs to be introduced. No one enjoys getting owned all the time.
The absolute best way to get better is to do just what you did. You die a lot. But every time you do, you should learn a little more. And don't get stuck in specific abilities or tactics, always be ready to adapt. See what others do and steal it, the work it out your own way. You'd be surprised how fast you can improve.
I'm primarily a PVE gamer, but I've reached RA5, am currently out of PVE content, and need Medals of Honor for purple gear, so I tried FvF PVP today. This is the only MMO I've ever played and I have basically no PVP experience. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty. I died many times, quickly, often without even seeing what it was that killed me or even having time to click a single boff ability. Clearly, there are skilled players mixed in with us noobs. So, sorry for the stupid question, but why isn't there a handicap system?
Also, aside from reading some of the highly useful PVP guides already in this forum, are there any suggestions on how to improve my PVP experience?
Handicaps are not fun at all, and do nothing but hinder those that are truly good at what they do.
I understand that you're a casual PvPer and you want to be able to compete, but you've got to understand that the people that are primarily PvPers are going to be very good at what they do and easily rip up people who are set up for PvE or just not used to the pace and firepower that comes in a PvP match.
I'm primarily a PVE gamer, but I've reached RA5, am currently out of PVE content, and need Medals of Honor for purple gear, so I tried FvF PVP today. This is the only MMO I've ever played and I have basically no PVP experience. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty. I died many times, quickly, often without even seeing what it was that killed me or even having time to click a single boff ability. Clearly, there are skilled players mixed in with us noobs. So, sorry for the stupid question, but why isn't there a handicap system?
Also, aside from reading some of the highly useful PVP guides already in this forum, are there any suggestions on how to improve my PVP experience?
If you're playing Fed, you're playing with a handicapped team right off the bat. It seems that 90% of federation players are kids or sorely lacking in brains. There isn't much you can do to counter the stupidity, all you can do is accept it and try to do your best.
Comments
IMHO Cryptic should keep an updated version of a (Work In Progress) Manual, which contains each skill, how to use, examples of use, tips on triggering extra specials, and how to counter. For each skill, also list related (influencing) char skills, consoles, equipment, etc.
Knowlege is the key to leveling the playing field.
@ handicap system: Once Cryptic adds leaderboards something like this could be done to balance pugs. However by now it would be a huge improvement if they were capable of balancing fights numerical. FvF, 5vs2...
Getting everyone up to speed (knowledge wise) is the starting point.
Currently this IS the major hurdle.
Finding a good fleet to fly with IMHO is a far better solution than further splitting up the queue system, which does not have enough players to begin with. Maybe sitting in the noob queue waiting for action for 6 hours will help you to appreciate that. OFC at that point most of us will be gone.
in golf, like u mention, there are "tiers" of ranking ur handicap. Like someone stated, u need a well developed leaderboard to see who gets what handicap then. Do premades get a severe handicap due to their prowess as a solid crew then?
Truth be told, u started PvPing too late. The distinction Cryptic tried to make is getting players to PvP from the getgo(lieutenant level) thus when reaching RA5, u would know how to keep up ur own pants.
Expecting Cryptic to solve or punish other players for ur dis-interest in PvP is not fair nor logical.
The only solution for "not so skilled PvPers" would be too choose from two seperate skill levels urself, so people can choose to play against peers. This would have the downside of splitting an already downsized PvP environment thus waiiting even longer for a solid game. An added downside would be that these players would not learn valuable lessons from their defeats.
So, letting players choose whom to fight could be an option, but there is also the option, of trying to better ur own skills via the lessons learned from ur defeats. Most succesful PvP "specialists" now were n00bs and bad in the beginning, they chose to rise to the challenge.
And yes, I know I can get purple gear from just doing exploration missions. Stats of certain items aren't the same between the two stores. Besides, isn't getting more people to PVP a good thing?
I'm not sure how suggesting a handicap system is punishing other players for my own disinterest. I have several posts and heard commments from many in-game that PVP is declining. Part of that decline is certainly caused by frustration at perceived inequities in the game of PVP. Myself, I'm a glutton for punishment and I intend to stick around and learn the ropes, but for the greater good of the game might we not consider a handicap system?
Sooo sorry, but from my point of view, its waste of development resources...
but since you asked here are some tips.
you started right by asking questions
read the pvp section
try fed v fed. why? same stuff you have no cloaks.
look at the debuffs and grahpic tell tales that thier powers use
most importanly.. if, er when you get owned DONT CRY. try sending a polite pm to that player and asking about what he hit you with. some wont tell you but some will. if they reply thank them. everyone wants to win but some enjoy a well fought fight where you run thru everyting you have 3 times before help arrives and almost makes you feel bad.
the only handicap i would want is if i enter pvp and i see coderanger's borg sphere. as i would go from alive to handicaped to crippled to dead to we aint kidding you're dead. in .02 seconds which is a long time for an andriod or a borg and i am neither
I know it's a huge time investment but you will not get better at fighting most of these guys without investing loads of it. They already have and they won't lose that advantage. Once I got to RA5 I enrolled a Klingon character so I wouldn't get side tracked by quick exp missions. I feel like I'm loads better than I was (which doesn't really say much) and i still get rolled most of the time (especially by premades). I don't expect to ever be better than the people who have more experience than I do.
Learn the best counters and how to identify what your up against.
Stick to your group as you'll never live long enough to learn much alone.
Find a fleet that you can work well with and who will support you.
Rank up another character through PvP primarily.
And when you have questions, keep asking them in the calm reasonable manner that you made this thread. So many people get in over their heads and decide to cry nerf or exploit to ruin things for others instead of trying to figure out what they themselves can do better. Good luck!
this echoes my beliefs on any form of handicapping system.
It has always been the "understood" rule of PvP. If you play, you take your lumps like everybody else did, or don't play.
Nobody likes to be ganked or griefed that I know of, but if someone can't it when it happens then maybe they should not play PvP.
I can only think that those who do need or want a handicap to balance the PvP field are just children of the "entitlement" generation and it makes me sad.
The absolute best way to get better is to do just what you did. You die a lot. But every time you do, you should learn a little more. And don't get stuck in specific abilities or tactics, always be ready to adapt. See what others do and steal it, the work it out your own way. You'd be surprised how fast you can improve.
Handicaps are not fun at all, and do nothing but hinder those that are truly good at what they do.
I understand that you're a casual PvPer and you want to be able to compete, but you've got to understand that the people that are primarily PvPers are going to be very good at what they do and easily rip up people who are set up for PvE or just not used to the pace and firepower that comes in a PvP match.
If you're playing Fed, you're playing with a handicapped team right off the bat. It seems that 90% of federation players are kids or sorely lacking in brains. There isn't much you can do to counter the stupidity, all you can do is accept it and try to do your best.