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Cryptic/Atari Faltering Marketing and Damage Control

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User

Please note (tldr summary). This is strictly an opinion piece but is certainly open for discussion amongst my favorite community (you guys&gals). I write this with the intent that Cryptic (or Atari) may take pause to seriously consider their internal resources and marketing strategies.

(When I make a statement that SOUNDS like a fact, please continue in order to find how my logic allowed me to arrive at such conclusions. I may be wrong at some points, and am fully open to standing corrected, I only ask that you be respectful.)

Dear Cryptic,
Disclaimer
I am writing to you in order to discuss Star Trek Online. That is point number 1, so that the mods can resist the temptation to move this thread to a quiet "resting place. This is not meant to elaborate on any SPECIFIC promotion, C-Store content or anything... this thread does not belong there. This is a general op-ed regarding Star Trek Online and how certain actions have been taken to potentially negatively impact its success.

1) Star Trek Online is an unfinished and unpolished product.
I don't want to go too much into detail here, because I think this is pretty much a commonly accepted opinion (I was to say FACT... but I'll leave that up to the historians to decide).

I want to make the specific point, that the gaming industry at large (and I have said this many times, but this point is pertinent to the whole, apologies) was generally

by STO. Not much damage control was done, but I'll give them a break, because how much can you do without loosing face?

Cryptic I'm assuming that you knew that there would be a negative reaction to the game at launch. There were plenty of indicators amongst the community pre-launch:
  • Discontentment over micro-transactions
  • The community CONSTANTLY asking about exploration but receiving hardly anything
  • The uproar over the poor Klingons
  • Clear concerns over the amount of content that would be present at launch
  • Community expectations and clearly stated desires regarding economy, crafting, diplomacy, and sandbox elements.
  • The vocal minority (which now seems to have been a larger group in hindsight) wishing for functional ship interiors
Which of you long-timers remember these discussions? They are clear in my mind, and if I weren't so lazy (right now) I'd go dig them up in the archives (because they are still there). Cryptic, you should have known you were going to disappoint people. But your marketing department unwisely promoted the game till nearly the cows began to sing in anticipation. Did you not remember your MMO history (Age of Conan, Warhammer)?.

What should have been done and what may be wise for the future
You should have done your marketing low level and targeted only your niche audience. I'm not really sure who your niche audience is at this point, as I see an increasing number of fanboys turn skeptic. But regardless, it would have been wise to start with a small, devoted, and easily pleased audience and built the game up from there. If I am not mistaken, this is the course that was taken by another Science Fiction MMO which shall not be named (heaven knows I don't want to be accused of marketing by Phoxe the vigilant) which is now successful, and by some is considered a "WoW" on a smaller scale.

2) STO's receiving negative attention due to marketing efforts.
I believe Rekhan is a "marketing dude" so I'll ask you... did you not heed the words of the people in this community? Sure, some were up in arms over the Galaxy X (I know I was astonished by this move, because had this been made available in game... this likely would have done leaps and bounds to improve my opinion overall, and would have actually made me log in to the game to aspire for that) but I'm not referring to that. I'm talking about how SO many stated clearly that STO IS NOT "INVITE" READY.

Now you have to consider if your "please come back" weekend was worth it, what with content websites asking questions like "Is STO Dying already" and "Isn't is a little early for a winback weekend?". Now this marketing endeavor may have yet garnered STO a kind of attention that you were not wanting in the first place. Are you even reading what people are writing about STO nowadays?

3) STO's long term sustainability is being hurt by marketing planning
Doing the RaF weekend now was ... well, I'd like to quote some of the other forum goers, but I'm sure I'll get and infraction for it, even if I was quoting someone else... needless to say it was flat out... unwise. STO has huge problems which hurt its competitive viability. With this in mind... now is not the time to present STO to the masses... unless UNLESS you are going for a desperate money grab and don't care if people see a game that is largely unchanged from beta and just quite after the first month anyway.

4) STO's CURRENT COMMUNITY Is continually being put off but your marketing blunders, fiascoes, debacles!

Three synonyms in one sentence, woot! Anyone have any others to add? Anyway, I'll make this short and sweet... but how many of you have been discouraged, angered, disappointed, or just turned off by some of Cryptic's marketing decisions:
  1. Closed beta fiasco
  2. Fileplanet debacle
  3. "1 million accounts" marketing speak
  4. 90 days game play in the first month of release shenanigans!
  5. More "exclusive" items
  6. New races being added to the game... oh wait no... I mean C-STORE
  7. Vibora Pay
  8. The recent RaF program

Think carefully. Have these programs served to encourage your existing user base. Have them made us elated with joy... or otherwise? You are not thinking carefully about Star Trek Online and how your decisions affect its current user base and how it may affect its long term sustainability. MMO players DO NOT CARE if there is a huge influx of players if there is a positive likely hood that they will not stick around and follow past habits/trends of others. MMO gamers care about the long term investment, ESPECIALLY US LIFETIMERS.

5) Current "Damage Control" methods are disenchanting some, while reinforcing negative notions in others.

Locking threads of "i quit" posters and making it a policy right around the time most people's free time was going to be up negated the opporunity for those leavng us to give us their feedback and constructive criticism. It also disallowed us from discussing their points and their validity. Sure, there are i-rage posters who have nothing good to say, shut those down, fine... but blanket censorship... thats a no-no, even if these are your forums.

Moving a lot of dissenting threads into quieter places where they my rest in peace also bespeaks of desperation to impress newcomers and removes the notion that you are a transparent company. This reinforces the notion that you guys are manipulative, and can not handle criticism like the big boys. Its your game, and if people have less than flowery, delightful things to say about it... then you need to take responsibility for your creation and own up to. Something that you've had difficulty doing (although Zinc once showed a glimmer of hope at one time... it has now been shown that his words were merely words and not much else). Craig, "best intentions" that have no perceivable actions on their behalf often make the best laid schemes of mice and men go awry! You said action would be taken to change people's perceptions, and yet your marketing department are proving otherwise. Defend your credibility and make changes for the betterment.

Suggestions
Given that these types of mistakes have been plaguing both Champions Online and STO, I would say that there is an inherent problem with the internal resources you are utilizing.
  • Take a slower marketing approach. Wait for the game to be more "ready" for the target demographic overall
  • Consider carefully how this may enrage or delight your current user base
  • Hire someone with excellent foresight, intuition, and wisdom which has a Communications background that isn't bogged down by media speak (which is truly annoying).
  • Take steps to make your current user base happy. You need to develop loyalty and player retention. Right now, with the game bleeding and a continued conversion of people from "lovers" to "dislikers"... you obviously need to change strategy.
  • Consider your business ethics for Heaven's sake!

I'm sure there are people who will disagree with me. However, given the number of threads, feedback within those threads
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    whilst I'm reading Jacob you may want to add that this is an opinion open for discussion with your peers and not intended as direct feedback for Cryptic, who may take feedback from it should they wish.

    edit:// I only read the first line ;)

    now I'm reading the rest after your disclaimer ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010


    • Take a slower marketing approach. Wait for the game to be more "ready" for the target demographic overall
    • Consider carefully how this may enrage or delight your current user base
    • Hire someone with excellent foresight, intuition, and wisdom which has a Communications background that isn't bogged down by media speak (which is truly annoying).
    • Take steps to make your current user base happy. You need to develop loyalty and player retention. Right now, with the game bleeding and a continued conversion of people from "lovers" to "dislikers"... you obviously need to change strategy.
    • Consider your business ethics for Heaven's sake!

    I'm sure there are people who will disagree with me. However, given the number of threads, feedback within those threads

    1. agree
    2. agree
    3. agree
    4. agree
    5. agree.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    whilst I'm reading Jacob you may want to add that this is an opinion open for discussion with your peers and not intended as direct feedback for Cryptic, who may take feedback from it should they wish.

    edit:// I only read the first line ;)

    now I'm reading the rest after your disclaimer ;)

    Noted. Disclaimer amended. ;)

    I of course always welcome discussion. The more the merrier!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Noted. Disclaimer amended. ;)

    I of course always welcome discussion. The more the merrier!

    I would discuss more, but I'm tired out due to getting ready for finals. ( that is why I had the simple reply earlier)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Noted. Disclaimer amended. ;)

    I of course always welcome discussion. The more the merrier!

    I only mentioned it so as to help avoid it being shifted to the forum graveyard.

    Read and understood. I have nothing to add. You know where I stand. ( very precariously I might add after another, final infraction point )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Here's some cherry-picking, marketing spin from your review links:
    That said, I did glean common trends from the reviews:
    • wanted a death penalty (available now)
    • wanted Klingon Content (hold breath for Season 2)
    • wanted Ground Combat to be as fun as the Space Portion (??????)
    • wanted the Exploration/Genesis content to fulfill marketing hype (??????)
    • wanted more useful gear and skill information (partially available now)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    [This post has been moderated by GM Destra - Discussing Disciplinary Actions, Harassing Material Towards Cryptic Employees]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Here's some cherry-picking, marketing spin from your review links:
    That said, I did glean common trends from the reviews:
    • wanted a death penalty (available now)
    • wanted Klingon Content (hold breath for Season 2)
    • wanted Ground Combat to be as fun as the Space Portion (??????)
    • wanted the Exploration/Genesis content to fulfill marketing hype (??????)
    • wanted more useful gear and skill information (partially available now)

    Thanks for picking out those things. Highly respectable that you read them. I do want to state for the record, that despite my overal displeasure with the game, it does have some nice things about it. Most of my praises would be directed at the art department (although they COULD go a little easy on the asteroids).

    And yea, space combat is fun, despite the button mashing. But it's not enough to sustain true viability to be competitive in the current market, which is the conclusion that most came to, which unfortunately is the thing that will stick in people's minds who are on the fence about STO. There are good points indeed, but the bottom line carries the most weight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Thanks for picking out those things. Highly respectable that you read them. I do want to state for the record, that despite my overal displeasure with the game, it does have some nice things about it. Most of my praises would be directed at the art department (although they COULD go a little easy on the asteroids).

    And yea, space combat is fun, despite the button mashing. But it's not enough to sustain true viability to be competitive in the current market, which is the conclusion that most came to, which unfortunately is the thing that will stick in people's minds who are on the fence about STO. There are good points indeed, but the bottom line carries the most weight.
    I was just pulling your leg. I loved the Euro-gamer review, describing fleet actions as a "wet dream." Who writes their material?

    However, the trends I gleaned offer some insight into where STO desperately needs development (after Klingon PvE, Exploration Mission Complexity seemed like they'd be in order)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010

    When speaking of being infractinated upon, I find it best to speak in code or make up neologisms or both (as i did in the first part of the sentence). I for one would like you to stay on the forums, so you may want to amend your post.

    When discriminated against, I actively try to fly under the "radar" so that our dear Phoxe has no ammunition. He's proven a worthy cute puppy (notice my going out of the way to avoid being given "love" for use of "vulgarity") given the obviously, and ridiculously insane circumstances for which I have been given affection for previously.


    I've accepted my fate now. I'm just awaiting the email address for John Needham CEO which I asked for 2 days ago.

    I'm done discussing moderation with moderators.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with most of what you're saying, yeah. x_x Cryptic and Atari really need to work on keeping the people they have rather than trying to get new players. Really sort of sad to see things in this shape, I really think this could be a great game if they took the time to clean and fix it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    [redacted]

    Redacted because I misinterpreted the post. /cheers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I was just pulling your leg. I loved the Euro-gamer review, describing fleet actions as a "wet dream." Who writes their material?

    However, the trends I gleaned offer some insight into where STO desperately needs development (after Klingon PvE, Exploration Mission Complexity seemed like they'd be in order)

    Exploration by far was the biggest disappointment for me. I actually began to believe what they were saying about the Genesis engine at one point prior to release. I even convinced myself that... this being their third MMO, that they will have made advancements from CoX random mission generation, but alas, this was clearly not the case. It is CoX random missions with star trek painting all over it, and I would love for someone to dispute this point. Even the interiors are generic (unless I've just had bad luck with all of the exploration missions).

    As for the rest... meh. I mean, yea none of those things thrilled me, but exploration done right... could have been THE THING which set STO apart from the rest. Unfortunately this is not the case, and I find myself going to another science fiction MMO which shall not be named (SFMwsnbN) to do exploration (although its kind of challenging, irk!).

    Klingons received "exploration", but this was a matter of copy and paste it seems. But generally, we've received more combat combat combat. Jeez. Strangely, in the other SFMwsnbN which happens to have a large focus on PvP... I do far less combat in that game than in STO. A lot can be said for unscripted emergent gameplay which is inherent in sandboxes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Exploration by far was the biggest disappointment for me. I actually began to believe what they were saying about the Genesis engine at one point prior to release. I even convinced myself that... this being their third MMO, that they will have made advancements from CoX random mission generation, but alas, this was clearly not the case. It is CoX random missions with star trek painting all over it, and I would love for someone to dispute this point. Even the interiors are generic (unless I've just had bad luck with all of the exploration missions).

    As for the rest... meh. I mean, yea none of those things thrilled me, but exploration done right... could have been THE THING which set STO apart from the rest. Unfortunately this is not the case, and I find myself going to another science fiction MMO which shall not be named (SFMwsnbN) to do exploration (although its kind of challenging, irk!).

    Klingons received "exploration", but this was a matter of copy and paste it seems. But generally, we've received more combat combat combat. Jeez. Strangely, in the other SFMwsnbN which happens to have a large focus on PvP... I do far less combat in that game than in STO. A lot can be said for unscripted emergent gameplay which is inherent in sandboxes.

    They can develop more Exploration missions types (even adding new, randomly selected gameplay elements).

    The big hold up is that most of the pods are working on Klingon Content. I'd say Exploration getting tough love for Season 3 sounds fair. :)

    That and UCG is busy being developed by coderanger, atm. That's why you haven't seen him lately, according to dstahl.

    In fact, the mere mention that developers looked at the random generation of content in the Explore the System and Revisit the System Proposals (see my signature) sounds like they might have quite a bit up their sleeve for Season 3.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Even if you are right about everything you said, do we really need another jacobflowers thread about this?

    how can we not need them? Do you think that things improve by ignoring them?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    how can we not need them? Do you think that things improve by ignoring them?
    Agreed. As much as I don my rose-colored glasses, a healthy debate if vital to keeping good ideas on the table (and bad ones off).

    We may disagree about what either of those terms mean but the debate itself contributes to a greater marketplace of ideas: from which everyone can come away the better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The marketting team from Cryptic/Atari has been dreadful....
    I hope for Cryptic's sake they reign them in or fire them (were appropriate).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I disagree with some of what Jacob says and agree with some of what he says. I would love to respond further but it is too late in the evening to write a paper on the forums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Exploration by far was the biggest disappointment for me. I actually began to believe what they were saying about the Genesis engine at one point prior to release. I even convinced myself that... this being their third MMO, that they will have made advancements from CoX random mission generation, but alas, this was clearly not the case. It is CoX random missions with star trek painting all over it, and I would love for someone to dispute this point. Even the interiors are generic (unless I've just had bad luck with all of the exploration missions).

    As for the rest... meh. I mean, yea none of those things thrilled me, but exploration done right... could have been THE THING which set STO apart from the rest. Unfortunately this is not the case, and I find myself going to another science fiction MMO which shall not be named (SFMwsnbN) to do exploration (although its kind of challenging, irk!).

    Klingons received "exploration", but this was a matter of copy and paste it seems. But generally, we've received more combat combat combat. Jeez. Strangely, in the other SFMwsnbN which happens to have a large focus on PvP... I do far less combat in that game than in STO. A lot can be said for unscripted emergent gameplay which is inherent in sandboxes.

    And you know what? It SHOULD have been THE thing. No offence to other MMOs with taglines such as "Emergent unscripted gameplay" but in my opinion Star Trek isn't about that. It's about discovery more than interaction. Sadly unlike Star Wars or Warhammer the ST universe always seemed to be distant and vast, not quite suitable to an MMO. On one ship maybe but Starfleet was always "Our fastest ship would take a week just to get you you, Picard, and even then they'd be useless from burned out warp coils! You're on your own" very rarely from what I recall did Picard ever run accross another Starfleet captain and be like "Oh hey I'm Jean-Luc Picard, I like your moves out there want to join my battlegroup?"

    STO needs to be brought closer to a living universe and farther away from a game. Now that being said if limited dev time and resources meant they could choose one or the other and they probably made the right choice. If they spread everything out massivly and had persistant exploration it would be much better, something where you could fly at maximum warp in one direction just to get away from everything else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    how can we not need them? Do you think that things improve by ignoring them?

    "This just in. Cryptic did X and jacobflowers didn't like it. News at 11."

    I am not in favor of ignoring problems. I am really tired of hearing the same thing by the same person on the epic marketing fail of the week. Saying that marketing people can't use common sense and forethought is just like calling a politician someone with special interests outside of the public's best interests. What else is new?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    "This just in. Cryptic did X and jacobflowers didn't like it. News at 11."

    I am not in favor of ignoring problems. I am really tired of hearing the same thing by the same person on the epic marketing fail of the week. Saying that marketing people can't use common sense and forethought is just like calling a politician someone with special interests outside of the public's best interests. What else is new?

    so ignore it. It's not aimed at you. It's not really your business seeing as you are not interested. Move on and leave the discussion for those interested.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think this is a very interesting topic and I would like to reply (hopefully I can keep this brief).

    I am an avid MMO player who has played virtually every major MMO that's ever been made, at least long enough to try it out and become slightly familiar. Being some one who enjoys Star Trek, but not necessarily a "Trekkie" I consider myself to be a part of the mainstream audience that STO needs to reach to be truly successful.

    As you can see from my inception date on the forum, I am was not following this game in beta, and I just started playing about a week ago. Although I've heard some mixed (mostly bad) reviews of the game, I was really curious to see how cryptic would implement a space game. Having played both SWG (the "real" SWG before it was turned into a level grind WoW clone) and EVE, I feel like no one has exactly nailed down a winning formula for this genre. For 29.99 on Steam, I felt that the price was right to take a chance on the game. Any more than that I would not have picked it up. Keep that in mind, because that is the cost of a poor launch and poor reviews. That's also a reflection of poor quality from Cryptic in the past, whether it be Champions Online, or the involvement of Cryptic personel with City of Heroes, which was a similarly hit and miss affair. People who are aware of Cryptic or who read the reviews, are not inclined to try the game unless and until they know "the coast is clear" so to speak.

    Now, onto the game itself. I have to be honest, I nearly cancelled after my first 5-6 hours of play. Reasons for my immediate poor impression:

    1) The tutorial, which does contain useful information and nice voice acting, nonetheless looks like it was never properly run through QA. Almost immediately I was asked to use a tricorder to examine an injured patient, only to find said patient floating spookily,5 feet above his treatment bed, due to a pretty obvious issue regarding the "closed" bed doodads. The fact that no one at Cryptic ever noticed this and either corrected the doodad, or swapped to the "open" unbugged doodad immediately gave me a sinking feeling in my stomach that this was not a quality product.

    2) The interface is horrible. It is not at ALL clear how skills work. There's no apparent way to drag un wanted icons OFF of the hot key tray (they can only be replaced with another icon) leading to a sloppy and disorganized look. The tools to acquire and train bridge officers are strewn all over the interface. Simple, common features like Mail and The Exchange are severely lacking. Can't mail my alt any energy credits, can't see more than 400 results on the exchange for a search, etc I mean literally I can find about 100 things wrong with the interface that aren't simply a matter of taste, but areas where needed functions are simply missing or poorly implemented. All of this stuff should have been corrected before the game left beta. No, wait, let me correct myself. Until that stuff is fixed, your software is a beta product for which you have the gall the charge money.

    3) The game engine itself lacks polish. There are a lot of aggravating bugs that cause elements of the interface to simply stop working. Some times my arrow keys simply stop controlling my character. Sometimes my number keys simply stop activating my hot keys. I have to exit the game entirely and then restart, in order to correct these bugs. Also, for some reason, transitioning from one form of movement to another (say, using both mouse buttons to move forward transitioned into use arrows keys, or any sort of diving roll into any other sort of movement) causes my character to freeze for a small moment (a fraction of a second). While this may seem like a small thing, it makes for a horrible game play experience, especially in ground combat where I want to move around as much as possible. There are many examples in the game of unpolished and jerky animation and interface. No excuse for this.

    4) The rewards structure is weird. Starfleet merits, badges of exploration, badges of bravery, etc. I was exposed to 5 different types of currency before I even left the Sol space station. Once I had the currency, it wasn't always clear where I was supposed to go in order to spend it. The only other game I've seen with such a convoluted rewards structure is World of Warcraft, except that most of those currencies aren't introduced until end game, and even Blizzard is working to simplify their system and cut down to only one type of raid currency and one type of PvP currency to go along with the generic "gold" currency. Throwing that many different types of currency at players does not make much sense, especially prior to end game content. I hate the idea that by the time I reach RA 5 I'll have literally something like 20-25 types of currency on my character. Couldn't we have gotten by with just skill points, officer training points, star fleet merits, and then normal energy credits AKA money? Is there some aspect of badges that couldn't have been simply worked into the Merit currency?

    5) I'm going to cut myself off at this point, because my intention was not to rant about how bad the game is but rather to make the point that you don't have to look very deep to find a LOT of areas for obvious improvements that could have and should have been made before release. This relates to the idea that the game is not "referral ready" which I believe is true. I've considered inviting some of my friends to play with me, but given the sorry state of the game right now I'd be a little embarassed, and I doubt any of them would stick around long enough to see the positive aspects of the game.


    What's that? Positive aspects? Yes, there are positive aspects. Enough that I am seriously considering playing beyond the first 30 days, which would have been unthinkable even a few days ago.

    Positive aspects of the game:

    1) I just finished the "Ultimate Klingon/City on the Edge of Never/etc" story quest line, and I found it to be a very interesting and rewarding storyline. This is a great example of tying in with the lore of Star Trek, and once I realized it wasn't a standard "go fetch some stuff and kill a guy" quest (well, of course they're all "kill some guys" quests, but I mean there was a real story arc to this one) and I was hooked, it was a lot of fun. For the 3 hours it took me to complete this quest chain, I was having a lot of fun without even giving a thought to the flaws in the game. A perfect example of how even moderate quality content can draw players in, and how much quality trumps quantity. 100 random "kill the guy" missions could not have the impact that this one hand crafted story line had. More of this , and less of "fly around the empty featureless zone until you come to an empty space that prompts you to do a mission."

    2) Increasing complexity and options. The first 10 levels of the game simply don't give any hint at the number of options that open up, as the game continues. While there is "complexity" in the form of multiple currencies, lots of mission types and interface elements to learn, etc, there is no hint of depth until you hit Lt Commander. Once you can start giving your BOs mutliple skills, can choose a specialized ship configuration, and have access to a multitude of consoles, weapons, devices, kits, tribbles, etc, the game really starts to be something to explore, rather than just a process to be tolerated. I feel like the first 10 levels of the game as they are currently implemented are a huge mistake. Too much complexity in areas that don't add depth, and not enough options to feel like you're really making any decisions. That said, once you hit Lt Commander, the game begins to get fun.

    3) A lot of alien races, locales, weapons, ships etc that really give me hope that the game can develop into a rich environment that really looks and feels like Star Trek. It would be cool if more of this stuff was available "for free" rather than via the C-store, but honestly I don't mind paying extra for high quality and cool options. If the rest of the game was up to par, I think the C-store complaints would be a lot less vocal. As it is now, it seems like there is a desparate desire to cash in on a game that isn't even finished yet. If you still haven't fixed the bad engine on the car that you sold me, of course I am going to feel insulted when you come and try to sell me some expensive and shiny rims for my tires. First things first.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I believe they are aware of all the problems you have listed as people have listed them pretty much daily since release, so I don't see much added value in listing yet again. As you are a Lifer, I'm quessing you played Beta and pretty much knew the direction the game was heading. I'm also quessing like me you invested that faith money in their ability to make the game better down the line, hopefully you didn't expect those fixes right away. I hope you didn't buy the life time subscription without liking what they accomplished so far, or I would say you wasted your money. I feel that there is plenty of depth in the character/ship abilities along with the NPC Bridge Officiers skills. I also like the ground combat and skills and the many story missions. What I see as areas to improve is Exploration (way too limited), crafting (non-existance, turns in's don't count in my book), and more open areas (sandbox) for interactions. I would also like more areas for PvP with meaningful goals that change some aspects of the game for the siding winning the advent. Many of the things you have complained about I don't have problems with or just don't perceive them as a problem, but to each his own. I'm still having fun and am patient enough to allow them time to get the other stuff inorder!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sorry for the double post, I just wanted to add one thing:

    I think the number one priority for the game should be to get the interface right. There's a very rich level of customization (in theory) which at this point has got to be your main selling point for the game, and yet it's mostly meaningless for any one who is not willing to spend hours upon hours searching for information outside of the game itself. Information about what skills do, which abilities are impacted by which skills, etc has to be available at a glance, or at the very least by pressing a "detailed info" button.

    Second priority, the exploration system needs a complete overhaul. Flying around an empty map getting random missions is not satisfying. A limited amount of structure needs to exist for exploration, including a space map that looks like a space map and not just a featureleless nothing. Even if it's generated randomly once per day and only revealed as it is explored, that's still better than having a bunch of empty space. Picard and crew did not fly about in a galactic fog, they flew around in space that wasn't charted. It's not the same thing. Another feature that should exist within the framework of exploration is a small number of hand crafted missions. There has to be some system or feature that is most important in each area, and that feature should persist even though the rest of the sector might be randomly generated, and it should be the subject of a hand crafted and compelling story/mission.

    Unlike some other players, I don't care if Klingons become anything except a PvP alternative, simply because I'd rather that resources were put into making federation content robust and interesting than making a greater quantity of mediocre content. Obviously the best of all worlds would be for the Klingons to have their own awesome stories and lore and to become a full realized "side" but how soon that happens (IMO) is very flexible if everything else is taken care of. I do think that the idea of adding any other races is a bit riduculous though until the Klingon situation is cleared up. If they're going to be a "real" side then they need to be well on their way before some one like Romulans are introduced, and if they're just going to be a gimmick, then that needs to be made clear to those who are still waiting for Klingons to be fleshed out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    [*]Consider your business ethics for Heaven's sake!

    Yeah, that's gonna happen any time soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    OP has a really well thought out post. Couple observations:

    1. This thread will probably get locked/moved to die a slow death. For shame.

    2. Cryptari doesn't care about lifetime members. Lifers already surrendered their money. By doing so they surrendered their influence.

    3. Cryptari's marketing people are either liars, incompetent, or both.

    4. Cryptari is hurting for cash; hence the cash grab marketing tactics (at the expense of the long-run profits for STO).

    5. I will never give Cryptari another penny of my money after this experience. Ever. I even have a list of their subsidiaries.

    6. The developers are doing their best, but there really isn't enough of them and it's hard to be motivated to develop what is, at best, a mediocre product.

    7. Most of the forum moderators are just trying to do their jobs. That said, the people upstairs have obviously told them to crack down on bad press. There have even been a few instances when a moderator said they would do something and then the issue quietly died - almost assuredly via order from upper management. Then there's all those moved/locked threads to consider.

    8. I wish STO was awesome. I really do. Wishing does not make it so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    And you know what? It SHOULD have been THE thing. No offence to other MMOs with taglines such as "Emergent unscripted gameplay" but in my opinion Star Trek isn't about that. It's about discovery more than interaction. Sadly unlike Star Wars or Warhammer the ST universe always seemed to be distant and vast, not quite suitable to an MMO. On one ship maybe but Starfleet was always "Our fastest ship would take a week just to get you you, Picard, and even then they'd be useless from burned out warp coils! You're on your own" very rarely from what I recall did Picard ever run accross another Starfleet captain and be like "Oh hey I'm Jean-Luc Picard, I like your moves out there want to join my battlegroup?"

    STO needs to be brought closer to a living universe and farther away from a game. Now that being said if limited dev time and resources meant they could choose one or the other and they probably made the right choice. If they spread everything out massivly and had persistant exploration it would be much better, something where you could fly at maximum warp in one direction just to get away from everything else.

    Perhaps you mistook the meaning of "emergent and unscripted gameplay"... but that and "discovery" are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I find the activity of "Discovering" new places and sites far more fulfilling and varied in the sci fi mmo which shall not be named, than in STO. Do you honestly think STO (in its current state) is about discovery? It slightly leans more towards scanning 5 things or genocide.

    But you and I are in agreement wholeheartedly, Star TREK (not STO) should have been about discovery. But interaction has to be there as well if its to be called an MMO. Unfortunately, STO doesn't do discovery right now. And it likely won't do it with any level of impressiveness if the universe remains so fragmented and heavily instanced (my opinion).

    WHat you speak of Dr. Love is what I ultimately wanted for STO to begin with: a grand, massive, expansive space with PLENTY of room to boldly go. We ended up getting shoeboxes the present the illusion of being big by effectively separating the player population. You could have easily done this if you launched a game with 3,500 star systems (like another sci fi MMO which shall not be named) did. Seeing players on a persistent map, allows for each player to effectively decide their own gameplay... whether it is to venture off and be with people at population centers... or to go off exploring into less populated or empty regions.

    "This just in. Cryptic did X and jacobflowers didn't like it. News at 11."

    I am not in favor of ignoring problems. I am really tired of hearing the same thing by the same person on the epic marketing fail of the week. Saying that marketing people can't use common sense and forethought is just like calling a politician someone with special interests outside of the public's best interests. What else is new?

    I think I can adequately posit that you must not read very carefully the threads I put up. For, if you did, then you wouldn't say something like "I..'m tired of hearing the same thing, by the same person [each week]". The contents do differ.

    Additionally, any reasonable person would judge the words on their own merit, as opposed to judging them based on who spoke/wrote them. I sent you a PM out of respect to address you more personally on your comments.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think I can adequately posit that you must not read very carefully the threads I put up. For, if you did, then you wouldn't say something like "I..'m tired of hearing the same thing, by the same person [each week]". The contents do differ.

    Additionally, any reasonable person would judge the words on their own merit, as opposed to judging them based on who spoke/wrote them. I sent you a PM out of respect to address you more personally on your comments.

    I regret not showing you respect. I am sorry, and you are right. I was trying to be sarcastic (in the "news at 11" post) and it came out wrong.

    I'm going to go read some Dilbert comics where they make fun of marketing and link it the next time you post another well thought out post. That might communicate what I'm trying to say better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Since one of the points had to do with marketing, I'll mention my opinion on this.

    Once the plethora of bugs have been mostly fixed, and sidekicking and a reasonable amount of content has been added (Season 2), THEN if CBS doesn't run TV ads for this game I will become convinced that CBS, Atari and Cryptic are being managed by a gaggle of idiots.

    Frankly I understand not advertising STO now. In fact I'd be against it, just like I was against their "Welcome Back Weekend." Because anyone invited for the first time is going to have the same problems with the game that most of us have. And anyone invited back to the game is going to find a game that hasn't really changed from the one they've already quit. And people will only come back so many times before they give up, so those times should be saved for after large additions to the game.

    If CBS has such control over every little detail of the game that they can reject the Nebula Class, then they're probably involved enough that they get a percentage of the profit of STO. If that's the case, then not running commercials to increase the subscriber base, and thus their own profits, would be sheer stupidity.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    1. This thread will probably get locked/moved to die a slow death. For shame.
    Well, it is a feedback thread - just like many of my feedback threads got moved.
    2. Cryptari doesn't care about lifetime members. Lifers already surrendered their money. By doing so they surrendered their influence.
    Sweeping generalizations. Obviously, Atari put more resources into Cryptic's STO due to profits from Lifers. Cryptic itself (due to the financial success of the game at launch) would be moving resources over to STO (it is acknowledged as the largest dev team at Cryptic).

    I'd find it absurd that lifetime subscriptions didn't influence the financial backing of this game (and therefore the new content backing).
    3. Cryptari's marketing people are either liars, incompetent, or both.
    If it brings more people in than it loses, they're competent enough to have met financial goals. That's the only substantial feedback they have: did this boost monthly or lifetime subscriptions?
    4. Cryptari is hurting for cash; hence the cash grab marketing tactics (at the expense of the long-run profits for STO).
    Assumption (Cryptic seems to be on-track to repaying investors at Atari - even if Atari's other units are failing miserably). If every game has trials referral progams: why not implement them sooner than later? I'm not agreeing with the policy - just acknowledging this wasn't created ex nihilo.
    5. I will never give Cryptari another penny of my money after this experience. Ever. I even have a list of their subsidiaries.
    If you don't like their games, by all means, don't buy them. They've proven before that they can publish good games (see virtually anything from their D&D license-holder days).
    6. The developers are doing their best, but there really isn't enough of them and it's hard to be motivated to develop what is, at best, a mediocre product.
    Could you elaborate? Why would developers be less motivated to improve an inferior product?
    7. Most of the forum moderators are just trying to do their jobs. That said, the people upstairs have obviously told them to crack down on bad press. There have even been a few instances when a moderator said they would do something and then the issue quietly died - almost assuredly via order from upper management. Then there's all those moved/locked threads to consider.
    Well, this can be true or false. Many of these sub-forums (aside from the C-store one) have existed since the game launch.

    The question was the inconsistency in moving them before (not that many of the existing forums were better suited or some feedback). For example, I made a Ground Combat proposal that was moved to the combat feedback forum - apparently because that's where the design teams have been gathering combat feedback (unless dstahl brought up something from another forum).
    8. I wish STO was awesome. I really do. Wishing does not make it so.
    That's the double-edged sword of MMO development: you have some luxury to develop new content after launch but many won't hold their breath until they see.
This discussion has been closed.