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Cryptic, come on now...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?

    They definitely need more variety and I'm kinda hoping that this particular mission (is it the pheromone research or the hull breach one?) gets the data hacking mini-game that's been proposed (which is supposed to be like an LCARS minesweeper game).

    The obvious idea would be: You play the mini-game. If you win, the mission completes. If you lose, you have to find another terminal to access.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Make a Klingon alt and come join our destroy X scanerless object missions and missions that don't load at all for some variety?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They definitely need more variety and I'm kinda hoping that this particular mission (is it the pheromone research or the hull breach one?) gets the data hacking mini-game that's been proposed (which is supposed to be like an LCARS minesweeper game).

    The obvious idea would be: You play the mini-game. If you win, the mission completes. If you lose, you have to find another terminal to access.

    This.

    Anybody play the new Covert Ops: Facebook game? or the Hack mini games in Mass Effect 2? They are very simple mini-games like "pattern matching", "find the object", etc. Simple thing to add this kind thing to exploration missions.

    They are adding mini games for ship interior use, which is cool....but why not extend that concept to the exploration missions as well? "Find the computer terminal" is the same concept as Cryptic's "Find the glowy box" in CoH/CoV. It's fun if done once in a while, but not all the time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Collect 10 boar pelts anyone?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think this is one of the most commonly heard and fair criticisms of the game to date - when so much of your PvE content comes from Exploration missions, it really should be something with more depth than running to five different blinky objects and pressing "f". dstahl mentioned somewhere that the Genesis system is being improved to deliver full missions rather than the simple missions they make now. My response was, why not make it better than linear missions? Add some challenge by timing the mission (a MACO "set the charges and rendezvous at the beam-out coordinates in time", or for a less violent take, "rescue the survivors on a Starfleet vessel before their warp core breaches"), a space escort mission where you actually have to keep your ally alive, or a series of other common tactics found in most single and multiplayer games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?

    check the link in my sig =( :(:(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Whats funny is those exploration missions where you need to beam to a base and one of the objectives is to access a computer and reinitialize life support. How exactly am I breathing on the base? Do those new personal shields come with invisible oxygen tanks too?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    senn4200 wrote: »
    Collect 10 boar pelts anyone?

    Kill 10 rats in this dude's basement. Have 1 silver piece for your troubles!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    check the link in my sig =( :(:(

    I've seen that thread, and I still think it's an awesome one (Geez I wish you could rate threads up or down on this forum). No Dev response though, which is a shame. They are adding mini-games though, but they aren't doing it to spruce up the explore missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    attilio wrote: »
    Whats funny is those exploration missions where you need to beam to a base and one of the objectives is to access a computer and reinitialize life support. How exactly am I breathing on the base? Do those new personal shields come with invisible oxygen tanks too?

    Minimal Life support is available.... Don't question their logic.

    but it would be neat if we had vacuum suits for those missions. maybe a mission that happens on the outside of the building?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    but it would be neat if we had vacuum suits for those missions. maybe a mission that happens on the outside of the build?

    The Trident class science vessel kind of looks like a hand held vaccuum cleaner.
    And support drones are kind of like flying Rumbas.

    ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    Minimal Life support is available.... Don't question their logic.

    but it would be neat if we had vacuum suits for those missions. maybe a mission that happens on the outside of the build?

    My understanding is that environmental suits have been in development since Beta.

    I'd like to see them as well as bases where the gravity is out entirely or where it's lighter (ala Hobus).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    Minimal Life support is available.... Don't question their logic.

    but it would be neat if we had vacuum suits for those missions. maybe a mission that happens on the outside of the building?

    There is one with minimal life support, but I swear there was one where it didn't say that but I also had to reinitialize it. I'm not complaining, just found it funny.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    attilio wrote: »
    There is one with minimal life support, but I swear there was one where it didn't say that but I also had to reinitialize it. I'm not complaining, just found it funny.

    I know... that is why I said Don't question their logic. :D I should of added and expression at the end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well I have the answer. I had to dig deep to find it. But you know the Akira is a class of ship. And Nausicaans are a kind of alien.

    I give you ...

    Marine Boy

    An old anime. In it, Marine Boy could breathe underwater by chewing gum.

    Specifically:
    The headgear includes a radio transceiver, but most remarkably, there is no breathing apparatus or face shield. Oxygen is supplied through another of Professor Fumble's inventions: "oxy-gum" which Marine Boy can chew and receive hours of oxygenation. He tends to have to replenish the gum after heavy activity. Presumably the oxy-gum is very limited in production because no other Ocean Patrol officers use it.

    Now obviously Oxy-Gum is no longer "very limited" and it's standard issue for away team missions on these life support challenged asteroid bases.

    No need to thank me. I just know these things.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?

    Great - now we'll have fireman simulators. :P

    Seriously, the devs have the mechanisms to make better exploration content. I just wonder what the ETA is till it gets overhauled. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    i know what secret would let sales sprout up 90%.

    add the encryption mini game from mass effect(1). :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?

    When you compare their "copy and paste" mission model (ahem), I mean Gensis system, then yes... it is much harder to implement.

    You are asking them to create dynamic missions with a certain level of complexity and variation. I'm not a programmer, but it sounds a lot more resource consuming, than the current copy and paste mission extractor they have now. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    When you compare their "copy and paste" mission model (ahem), I mean Gensis system, then yes... it is much harder to implement.

    You are asking them to create dynamic missions with a certain level of complexity and variation. I'm not a programmer, but it sounds a lot more resource consuming, than the current copy and paste mission extractor they have now. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

    I am a programmer and it would be only somewhat difficult if I understand their system correctly. However the difficulty increases exponentially in comparison to the complexity of the missions that you want. If you don't want it to break then either months and months of dev time or simple things like putting out fires or copy-paste door hacking mini-game. Neither of which I'd be opposed too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Also I've heard talk of them using EVA suits as a new equipment slot in season 3-4, so you can get different EVA suits for cold/heat resistance, bio hazzards, all around space gear ect. and this would factor in to some missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think the current Exploration mechanic could be improved using already available models.
    There are models of interiors and exteriors that are present in Episodes that are not re-used in Exploration missions.
    One that springs to mind is the Romulan ship interior from an Episode.
    Why hasn't that been re-used and added to Exploration content?

    Another thing that disappoints about the Exploration mechanic.
    The repetition.
    One simple thing to help alleviate it is SUPRISE.
    For example: you get another boring 5 scans things on a planet mission. But this time u get ambushed after the first scan or it explodes badly injurying an Away team member. When u call for the beam out your told there is something blocking it and u set off to find the source before your Away team member dies.
    So come on Cryptic, show some imagination will ya.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think the current Exploration mechanic could be improved using already available models.
    There are models of interiors and exteriors that are present in Episodes that are not re-used in Exploration missions.
    One that springs to mind is the Romulan ship interior from an Episode.
    Why hasn't that been re-used and added to Exploration content?

    Another thing that disappoints about the Exploration mechanic.
    The repetition.
    One simple thing to help alleviate it is SUPRISE.
    For example: you get another boring 5 scans things on a planet mission. But this time u get ambushed after the first scan or it explodes badly injurying an Away team member. When u call for the beam out your told there is something blocking it and u set off to find the source before your Away team member dies.
    So come on Cryptic, show some imagination will ya.

    Complexity can be added - the question is when Cryptic will catch up.

    I'm hoping Exploration Content gets some TLC in regards to mission complexity (or gameplay variety). The Diplomacy Corps (Prime Directive System) sounds like it will meet players half-way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, I would love it if they mixed and matched objectives. Find 5 plants/probes...ok, but 2 of them you end up scanning and need to be destroyed (toxic, leaking radiation), the others you scan/interact with. Drop in a group of enemies 2 or 3 times...not every one or none, as it is now.

    Since it's free, they out to have someone check out the puzzles in DDO, some of them are actually very fun, the best I've seen in an MMO. I'd think these types of puzzle would be up many Trek fan's alleys.

    The "put out the fires" mission, that was good...but I only have seen the one like it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?

    I agree...these missions are so boring and pointless...the interiors so dull and "eh" total lack of environment detail...scatter some papers on the floor, throw a few crates here and there...a few dead bodies and debris around...make it feel alive...or as if it was once alive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I really hope that by adding the Dabo mini game, they will have built the framework necessary to quickly build and include other mini games in the randomly generated away missions... even if they are just for disarming bombs, sealing airlocks, raising shields, etc...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Another thing that disappoints about the Exploration mechanic.
    The repetition.
    One simple thing to help alleviate it is SUPRISE.
    For example: you get another boring 5 scans things on a planet mission. But this time u get ambushed after the first scan or it explodes badly injurying an Away team member. When u call for the beam out your told there is something blocking it and u set off to find the source before your Away team member dies.
    So come on Cryptic, show some imagination will ya.

    Decision Trees FTW during random map generation.

    First set of branches (explore, fight, etc) : explore

    Second set (ambush on first scan, accident on first scan, normal scan) : accident

    Third set (explosion, radiation, trap, trigger natural disaster, trigger something in orbit causing you to beam up and confront, etc) : trap, pop dialog explaining that you now have 5 mins to solve the other puzzles on the ground before a giant lightning storm is summoned.

    It honestly would not take much with a framework like that to make much more varied missions... you could even add weights to certain probabilities in the tree based on what theme or race is chosen for the exploration mission.

    Keep in mind this is the map generation tree the game would use before you enter the map... this is not a real time tree...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'm doing an exploration mission and the objective is to beam to an asteroid base that was evacuated due to a plasma storm and check for damage. Unfortunately, all I'm doing is running from one computer to another, like so many missions. Why not have some fires to put out like that one episode(cant remember the name)? Why not have some debris to shoot through, or something that I actually need to fix? Is it really too much to ask for to have exploration missions that involve more than scanning computers?

    Lol. And here I had you pegged as a fanboi. Now I'll have to modify that categorization to realistic fanboi.

    +1
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Chompo wrote:
    Yeah, I would love it if they mixed and matched objectives. Find 5 plants/probes...ok, but 2 of them you end up scanning and need to be destroyed (toxic, leaking radiation), the others you scan/interact with. Drop in a group of enemies 2 or 3 times...not every one or none, as it is now.

    Since it's free, they out to have someone check out the puzzles in DDO, some of them are actually very fun, the best I've seen in an MMO. I'd think these types of puzzle would be up many Trek fan's alleys.

    The "put out the fires" mission, that was good...but I only have seen the one like it.

    Unless DDO added a bunch of puzzles after level 16 ... there were less than 10 in the entire game.

    The most notable being the one in the first harbor set of quests from that annoying nobleman who gives you the piece of junk sword. And the Shroud puzzles which were part of a raid.

    I'm not at all convinced DDO puzzles are as inspiring at they're being made out to be. The idea is fine, but I would like this game to take mini-games and puzzles a step forward.

    I think we should turn our attentions to Apps and the mini-games we all play on our phones these days for inspiration on how we can make mini-games and puzzles in this game integrate well and be that step forward.

    I've certainly played enough bejeweled on my phone standing in line at wal-mart's pharmacy to know that there's quite a lot of potential there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Tetris!

    Seriously, I'd like to see something like the various lockpicking mini-games from Ratchet and Clank. They don't have to be for opening doors either, but maybe to inject something into the warp core to prevent a breach or to flush out nanites from a bridge officer/crew member who is in a stage of assimilation.

    That would be awesome.

    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I would love some actual atmosphere to these missions. Yes, scenery is nice and all, but it feels the same after a while. I would love to get trapped in one of these outposts, the exits seal shut, and you're cut off from your ship. Life support starts to fail and you HAVE to find the consoles to get it back up...and for good measure, throw in some ****ed off lab experiments gone bad.

    I just wish exploring had that, unknown, element.
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