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STO as Free-to-Play. A viable model?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
So...

Should Cryptic make STO a Free-to Play, aka Pay As You Go (C-Store based) , game?

It would certainly bring in loads more people, and oddly, a lot more money (if other, once subscription based, but now Free-to-Play games like Dungeons and Dragons Online are any indication).

Discuss.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    My prediction? It will happen. Only a matter of time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This thread is not going to go over well. No not well at all:eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think it would be a really good thing if they either reduced the cost or made it free until it was actually worth $15/month.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I wonder if the WoW forums ever had threads like this in the first year of WoW's existence. Most likely. :rolleyes:

    EDIT :: A more serious answer, seeing how City of Heroes/Villains, which was Cryptic's first MMO ever, hasn't degraded to this model, I doubt CO or STO will ever have to.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    LordOfPit wrote: »
    I wonder if the WoW forums ever had threads like this in the first year of WoW's existence. Most likely. :rolleyes:

    nope, it didn't
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't think it's something that they can avoid considering at some point. It has breathed new life into DDO ( which did not need to do it, it had made it's money and only tried it in the US )
    The problem is that it would be financial suicide to contemplate it before STO was able to recoup it's investment ( which at my best estimates before the next half year reports is going to be around 2 years but it's speculation as of yet ) because how do you reconcile no more subscriptions with the lifetimers?
    The only way to do it before 16 months would be to have the F2P severely limited in play with quest lines and new areas opened by purchase, leaving the lifetimers with full access to all content at all times.

    F2P is a valid model and the industry is considering it more in the West. Just reading between the lines of Jack Emmerts recent comments about Cryptic's next MMO makes me believe that they are already considering it and there is no secret that industry insiders think that Blizzard's in-development mmo will also be subscription-free.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    i doubt it will happen

    im happy to pay at the moment but i do think dropping the sub price slightly would help. if you make it the cheapest mmo on the market with a monthly sub and top up their income with the c-store you might see more people come along
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They can't, at least not for a few years...their lifers would rebel. I don't think F2P is inevitable just yet. We'll know by the end of the summer what direction STO is headed, though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They can't, at least not for a few years...their lifers would rebel. I don't think F2P is inevitable just yet. We'll know by the end of the summer what direction STO is headed, though.

    of course they 'can' whether it makes sense is a different matter. What would lifers do? Leave?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I believe it's inevitable that this game will go F2P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    nope, it didn't

    you seam sure of that

    did you hang around the foums 24 hours a day for the entire year and can remember 7 years back with perfect recollection that there was not one thread about it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    My prediction? It will happen. Only a matter of time.

    I agree. They could easily do this if:
    1) they allotted monthly credits to lifer's to the ingame store to compensate for them paying up front.
    2) added things in the ingame store that people would actually want to buy aside from vanity items that they currently have.

    I assume #2 is already on the way at some point since the majority of the items currently are one-time purchases.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Wouldn't be a bad idea, in theory.

    Give the Lifers and those who choose to subscribe a set number of Cryptic Points each month, then charge for new episodes on the Cryptic Store alongside the cosmetics.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    nope, it didn't

    All games do. Including WoW. They did probably more than anyone since they expanded the MMO market to a much larger group of people not used to monthly fees.

    There's a reason Runes of Magic made a F2P WoW Clone.

    As for this game, I think Cryptic might be smart to offer a $20 plan that includes all Cryptic games. A slight value now, that would be a very good value if that rumored 3rd game gelled. Or it could be an Atari based plan and include the Subscription model of DDO as well. Such a plan worked out pretty well for SOE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    STO being FTP is inevitable.

    I hope they wait until my Lifetime Subscription has paid for itself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It is unlikely to happen, What could happen is the subscription will go far below the vaule of keeping the servers online. peolpe will continue to complain about the games direction. this will force the head dev to restructure the game or have the game die. They will be forever remebered as failing at making a MMO star trek game. trust with the company will die soon after and only a good 30 to 50 thousand users will stay devoted to cryptic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They can't, at least not for a few years...their lifers would rebel.

    Easy fix: refunds.

    Everyone is then on the same playing field. The lifers can use the refund to directly purchase all the content they had before if they so wish.

    Better this than NEXT TO NO subscribers in a year/year and a half.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    personae wrote:
    ........... Or it could be an Atari based plan and include the Subscription model of DDO as well. Such a plan worked out pretty well for SOE.


    Turbine won't let Atari anywhere near any more agreements that Atari will breach with regard to DDO. Atari have done their best to kill DDO rather than promote it ( as was their contractual obligation to do )

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/08/26/Atari.pdf
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    personae wrote:
    As for this game, I think Cryptic might be smart to offer a $20 plan that includes all Cryptic games. A slight value now, that would be a very good value if that rumored 3rd game gelled. Or it could be an Atari based plan and include the Subscription model of DDO as well. Such a plan worked out pretty well for SOE.
    Now that may be a smart plan. Smarter than free-to-play in any case.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Better this than NEXT TO NO subscribers in a year/year and a half.
    So... you have the numbers? Do share... please. I urge you! :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    From what I have seen all mmo's have some people that state they feel it is without a doubt going to be FTP, there are ALWAYS people every update of games like wow and SWG that swear it is a game ender or they will have to go FTP to keep going and the reality is neither wow nor SWG are free and both are still going along just fine although SWG is a mere shadow of what it was it still has A LOT of people playing.

    fact of the matter is that every mmo has a number of people that THINK the game revolves around them and these are normally the ones that always state that they are positive about this or that and the more negative the(insert subjet here) is the more positive they claim to be that it will happen. This crowd tends to consist of the people that race to the highest possible lvl as fast as they can by passing all the content and are tend to end up being the people that actually know very little about the game because they never played the content so they have no idea what is good or bad or needs fixing aside from there limited view due to racing to the top.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    F2P definitely has done wonders for DDO's sub numbers and bottomline. They have increased their subscriber base substantially.

    However, being a long time DDO subscriber (4 yrs) it's left a bad taste. DDO is heavily focused on grouping. The amount of hand-holding and failed quests due to newer players really has killed the enjoyment of the game for many vets. Numerous vets have left the game or are currently on a break (myself included). DDO was unique socially in that everyone knew each other/worked well together. Pretty much everyone was fervent about the game, knowledgeable, and let's just say mature... The move to the F2P model all but stripped away the comraderie and social aspects of the game with the influx of new players.

    Business-wise it was a great move, for us long-termers it ended up making it a model of frustration for playing.

    That being said, I could see STO being able to pull it off and still keep the vets around longterm mainly because you don't have to group with others to play the game......as long as content is released in a timely fashion (that's another thread though) ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think F2P would be a much more viable plan if the game had started out with that in mind. Now that they've got things established like Lifetime subscriptions, I'm not exactly sure how that would work, from a business standpoint. But I'm not sure what the ratio of Lifetime subs to non-lifetime subs are. I know that I see a LOT more blue names in the forums than I expected.

    I do like DDO's plans though:
    • Regular Subscription: All the updates plus an "allowance" of Store Points. I suppose Lifetime Subs on such a plan would automatically get these too for as long as the game runs. Not very business effective if there's a lot of Lifetime Subs though.
    • Free Play: You pay for the game box (which, looking at their site, you don't even need to pay for DDO's basic game) which gives you the basic starter stuff, then tack on the new areas and extras if you want them. It looks like DDO has ways to earn store points just by playing the game as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Roggane wrote: »
    F2P definitely has done wonders for DDO's sub numbers and bottomline. They have increased their subscriber base substantially.

    However, being a long time DDO subscriber (4 yrs) it's left a bad taste. DDO is heavily focused on grouping. The amount of hand-holding and failed quests due to newer players really has killed the enjoyment of the game for many vets. Numerous vets have left the game or are currently on a break (myself included). DDO was unique socially in that everyone knew each other/worked well together. Pretty much everyone was fervent about the game, knowledgeable, and let's just say mature... The move to the F2P model all but stripped away the comraderie and social aspects of the game with the influx of new players.

    Business-wise it was a great move, for us long-termers it ended up making it a model of frustration for playing.

    That being said, I could see STO being able to pull it off and still keep the vets around longterm mainly because you don't have to group with others to play the game......as long as content is released in a timely fashion (that's another thread though) ;)

    I can understand your point here about DDO, but players don't even talk to each other in sto. There is no comraderie. I'd be willing to take the gamble.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    roccprofit wrote: »
    From what I have seen all mmo's have some people that state they feel it is without a doubt going to be FTP, there are ALWAYS people every update of games like wow and SWG that swear it is a game ender or they will have to go FTP to keep going and the reality is neither wow nor SWG are free and both are still going along just fine although SWG is a mere shadow of what it was it still has A LOT of people playing.

    fact of the matter is that every mmo has a number of people that THINK the game revolves around them and these are normally the ones that always state that they are positive about this or that and the more negative the(insert subjet here) is the more positive they claim to be that it will happen. This crowd tends to consist of the people that race to the highest possible lvl as fast as they can by passing all the content and are tend to end up being the people that actually know very little about the game because they never played the content so they have no idea what is good or bad or needs fixing aside from there limited view due to racing to the top.

    That's because most people think that free to play is an admission of failure. It is nothing of the sort. It is simply a different revenue model.
    People think that DDO was as a result of failure to attract subscribers. DDO had already made its money but Atari refused to part with it. In fact it was as a result of Atari breaching contractual obligations and refusing to pay royalties on the game units that they sold as publisher. DDO went f2p so that Atari were no longer selling it and keeping the money but that Turbine could be in control of all the game's income.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Kirkfat wrote: »
    I can understand your point here about DDO, but players don't even talk to each other in sto. There is no comraderie. I'd be willing to take the gamble.
    Would you be willing to take the gamble of starting a zone-chat conversation for example?! You know... just to start people talking to each-other? I recently joined a Fleet, and well, what can I say? These folks seem to always chatter... you know? Like there's too many voices in my head, and too many players in my single-player experience. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This game isn't empty. I see people everywhere. So they are probably making profit. So to go to a free to play would be stupid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    nope, it didn't

    Yes, everyone was happy with WoW and playing it constantly..OH WAIT! Maybe NOT! Here's a post to a blog about a plaer's thought's on WoW from March 7, 2005 (When WoW was about 4 months out. FYI - I just got this from a quick Google search - but I find the original bloggers comments, as well as the comments of the people who responded somewhat familiar.

    Here's the Link
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    At this point, I don't see any need for the application of a F2P model in STO. Honestly, I don't think that STO currently is in shape for the F2P model. Also, I think that some folks discussion of STO going F2P is biased due to some of the players feel the game is a failure as a sub model, which is an opinion I do not share.


    To clarify, I don't think the F2P is a illegitimate business model, I just think it currently does not fit in the projected scope of STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Englebert wrote:
    This game isn't empty. I see people everywhere. So they are probably making profit. So to go to a free to play would be stupid.

    It wouldn't be stupid if FTP meant more C-Store sales.

    I can see it but I think they'd basically have to offer the world on a platter to appease lifers if they did it before the 16 month mark.

    There are inbetween models they could go for. For example, FTP but you pay every time you want to rank up and maybe you buy alternate leveling paths.

    Honestly, my favorite model would be the "three drink minimum" system. Some bars will charge a cover or require a minimum number of drinks be purchased.

    The solution could be to make the game FTP but you must buy a certain number of Cryptic Points each month to get access. You don't spend the C-Points for access. But you have to buy a C-Point package and access (or access to certain features, at least) comes with it. In turn under this system, lifers would be exempted from the minimum and given a big bundle of Cryptic Points for the inconvenience of the system changing.

    As Zoot notes, they don't HAVE to do anything to keep lifers happy with a policy change but they would simply because it would cost more to moderate forums with that many unhappy lifers and it would be a black eye with very little upside. (Thus far, everything some people have seen as shady or negative really does have an upside to it. Whereas POing your lifers before their 16 month payoff point would be a much bigger issue than anything we've seen to date.)
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