Let me make a suggestion to Cryptic to salvage this Titanic of a game:
Open the servers up to both factions: Both Klingon and Federation. You'll give the Klingons the content they want, and open PVP which will draw in tons of people. The only thing you'll need to block is Klingons in Federation PVE instances so that noobs can grind in peace, but I guarantee you'll have a full population again. Greifing would be minimal since flying between systems doesn't generate combat.
I know it can be done, you did it during the end of beta event. You could put in different spawn points for Fed and Klings but really it isn't necessary- it would be a disincentive enough for Klings to operate freely in Federation space. You could also block off the Sol sector completely, or maybe just Sol system. And if you add in another faction, it will be even more interesting as three factions duke it out in PVP.
Bottom line is, you have less than a tenth of subscribers you had at launch only a few months into the game, and there's no way you'll be able to generate the content needed to keep players interested at the rate you are going.
Of course, the fanbois will howl. But listen, it's not like there's a lot of subscribers left anyway. You might as well try and offer a real MMO now for a change, instead of this half baked single player with multi player option game you have now.
I'm going now. But keep in mind, I'm a long time gamer that quit this mess long ago, and just one of many voices that have simply left the game in frustration, disappointment and silence. But you probably won't listen. You'll just start up another MMO like this, get your cash and leave. That seems to be the MO for Cryptic anymore.
But you could prove me wrong and make some decent changes. So I posted this. I would love to be wrong and finally enjoy a good Space MMO.
I went into most of the different systems and they were pretty much all vacant. Different systems use different servers. Pretty sure of that anyway, as do different instances.
1 server several instances.
Which is why it sometimes seems vacant. For instance(ahem) you cant see people doing missions.
Anyways... You don't see the problem with opening up all instances to both factions?
A hint... Opposite factions does not really endorse letting the enemy in a war into their territory.
Just opening up would cause a lot of problems.
Mainly because the game does not distinguish between fed and klingon missions right now.
As a result during the end of Beta event when klinks could enter fed space i ended up taking fed missions.
1 server several instances.
Which is why it sometimes seems vacant. For instance(ahem) you cant see people doing missions.
Anyways... You don't see the problem with opening up all instances to both factions?
A hint... Opposite factions does not really endorse letting the enemy in a war into their territory.
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
No I don't see a problem with opening up all instances, except for the exception I mentioned. Every major MMO allows open pvp. Some use a flagging system, some use a safe zone set up.
And no they don't 'endorse' letting an enemy into their territory - THAT's WHY YOU WOULD BE FLAGGED.
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
No I don't see a problem with opening up all instances, except for the exception I mentioned. Every major MMO allows open pvp. Some use a flagging system, some use a safe zone set up.
And no they don't 'endorse' letting an enemy into their territory - THAT's WHY YOU WOULD BE FLAGGED.
This has been discussed to death and there is a huge portion of the population that does NOT want any form of open PVP. There are many that don't even want a "neutral zone" setting of only one sector of space separated from those that want to PVE.
Just because a person dose not flag for PVP does not mean that they don't get griefed. Many times in the games where flagging is required, the flagged PVP player will simply kill everything around so the non-flagged player still can't do anything.
So open PVP will not work. You'll draw in those that want it, and you'll loose those that don't. And since STO was marketed as a casual players game you probably won't get it into many peoples heads that the game has gone more hardcore. So you'll loose a larger portion of the population then you brought in. And you're left with the same problem.
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
No I don't see a problem with opening up all instances, except for the exception I mentioned. Every major MMO allows open pvp. Some use a flagging system, some use a safe zone set up.
And no they don't 'endorse' letting an enemy into their territory - THAT's WHY YOU WOULD BE FLAGGED.
MMOs tend to have a big population at launch and shortly after it...
So immersion wont be broken with enemies flying here and there in enemy territory and you can't do anything about it?
And you know... Not everyone want pvp. Some play this game just because there is a lack of it.
Because well... *cough cough* PvP tend to bring out the "best" in folks.
Like calling everyone noobs(which would be slang for idiot) in their posts. *hint hint*
OpenPVP Sector(s?) will come...
the Dev's said before that they want to get the PVP they have to feel right first, and i am completely behind this decision.... because honestly, even after all the ballance fixes it is still an unballanced mess.
Also Open PVP Sectors would be dominated by the Federation -> bigger in numbers, so it still needs to be instanced and queued somehow which again breaks the Illusion of OPEN pvp...
i'd say first increased the Klingon Population (Episode Missions!!! more custumization, more clothing stuff... etc.)
and just so you know Klingons did not get Episode Missions for now, but the Federation did get none either, so far it was all "Special Task Forces" (and Klingons can do them too).
Oh and Klingons got *exploration clusters* and all the Fleetactions AFAIK.
There are as many instances as required by the population at any one time
each instance can have a maximum if 50 players. If there are 120 players in a sector then the game will create 3 instances and split the population between them to around 40 players in each ( which is dynamic )
for instance, In the Beta Ursae sector (Deep Space 9 ) there are now 2 instances with 19 players in one and 20 in the other.
The game is now pretty much reduced to 2 instances in every sector of the game except for those where the rear admirals gather to do nothing.
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
No I don't see a problem with opening up all instances, except for the exception I mentioned. Every major MMO allows open pvp. Some use a flagging system, some use a safe zone set up.
And no they don't 'endorse' letting an enemy into their territory - THAT's WHY YOU WOULD BE FLAGGED.
No not EVERY MAJOR MMO has open PvP. For example LoTRO only has a system similar to STO, it's called PvMP in that PvP only occurs in a sectioned off area. The monsters aren't allowed out of this area.
No not EVERY MAJOR MMO has open PvP. For example LoTRO only has a system similar to STO, it's called PvMP in that PvP only occurs in a sectioned off area. The monsters aren't allowed out of this area.
So what the OP is asking...is for STO to FREE THE MONSTERS! :eek:
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
No I don't see a problem with opening up all instances, except for the exception I mentioned. Every major MMO allows open pvp. Some use a flagging system, some use a safe zone set up.
And no they don't 'endorse' letting an enemy into their territory - THAT's WHY YOU WOULD BE FLAGGED.
not every mmorpg needs pvp. open pvp is more prevalent in the imported, level grinding trash than western mmorpg's.
of course you could bring up wow, and i could bring up the fact that even on the PVP servers, people spend most of their time doing pve raiding and battlegrounds than open pvp.
this game has all the pvp it needs. open pvp will make it more niche. if you want the eve experience, go play eve
or are you one of those that wants to gank but is too afraid if there are consequences like losing gear and skillpoints etc.?
Let me make a suggestion to Cryptic to salvage this Titanic of a game:
Open the servers up to both factions: Both Klingon and Federation. You'll give the Klingons the content they want, and open PVP which will draw in tons of people. The only thing you'll need to block is Klingons in Federation PVE instances so that noobs can grind in peace, but I guarantee you'll have a full population again. Greifing would be minimal since flying between systems doesn't generate combat.
I know it can be done, you did it during the end of beta event. You could put in different spawn points for Fed and Klings but really it isn't necessary- it would be a disincentive enough for Klings to operate freely in Federation space. You could also block off the Sol sector completely, or maybe just Sol system. And if you add in another faction, it will be even more interesting as three factions duke it out in PVP.
Bottom line is, you have less than a tenth of subscribers you had at launch only a few months into the game, and there's no way you'll be able to generate the content needed to keep players interested at the rate you are going.
Of course, the fanbois will howl. But listen, it's not like there's a lot of subscribers left anyway. You might as well try and offer a real MMO now for a change, instead of this half baked single player with multi player option game you have now.
I'm going now. But keep in mind, I'm a long time gamer that quit this mess long ago, and just one of many voices that have simply left the game in frustration, disappointment and silence. But you probably won't listen. You'll just start up another MMO like this, get your cash and leave. That seems to be the MO for Cryptic anymore.
But you could prove me wrong and make some decent changes. So I posted this. I would love to be wrong and finally enjoy a good Space MMO.
Bottom line is that when you sell a million copies of a game, and less than 20% of those are still playing the game 60 days in, you aren't doing something right. In fact you are doing something very wrong.
Bottom line is that when you sell a million copies of a game, and less than 20% of those are still playing the game 60 days in, you aren't doing something right. In fact you are doing something very wrong.
bottom line is Cryptic have never sold a million of anything.
Why do the mission instances appear to be vacant. I suspect that the new "Difficulty" slider is forcing people into individual instances. Also, I have seen the message "Failure: unable to connect to instance" message many times.
Eventually, it may be better... hopefully before the game hits the closeout bin.
Why do the mission instances appear to be vacant. I suspect that the new "Difficulty" slider is forcing people into individual instances. Also, I have seen the message "Failure: unable to connect to instance" message many times.
Eventually, it may be better... hopefully before the game hits the closeout bin.
You might be onto something there. The programming is probably keeping Elite people and Normal people from joining in the same mission because it'll tick them both off.
Or maybe not? I didn't do any testing with the system where I actively tried to notice that.
You're automatically put into your own mission instance for most missions if auto-teaming is off. You can team up and join the mission with other players.
Fleet Actions, Earth Spacedock, Qo'noS, Sector Space, and several other places are shared, so everyone can see each other there. Zone chat should cross instances of the mission you're in, so if you're looking for people doing your mission, you can probably ask in Zone.
Why do the mission instances appear to be vacant. I suspect that the new "Difficulty" slider is forcing people into individual instances. Also, I have seen the message "Failure: unable to connect to instance" message many times.
Eventually, it may be better... hopefully before the game hits the closeout bin.
Also, Fleet Actions segregate players by rank now. Also, Cryptic reduced the maximum number of players allowed per instance. (It's now at 25 in social areas.)
Now, I'm not saying there hasn't been population decline. There has. But by and large, most instances I see are either full or at least the 3rd or 4th instance shard for an area to open up but you'll see less people in front of you because Cryptic is allowing less people into each instance now.
You're automatically put into your own mission instance for most missions if auto-teaming is off.
Oooooooh. I never checked on this. Up until the last patch Auto-Teaming was automatically on. Did they maybe just change it so the default setting was off?
That would also explain a lot.
Lots of things I didn't even think to test when I was testing out difficulty sliders and exploration missions.
EDIT: And this is something that's always in the back of my mind when this topic gets discussed. From a purely AESTHETIC point of view ...
Space is kind of big. It's slightly more believable to be lonely and separated in space. I understand that doesn't always mesh with the desired social aspects of an MMO. But I do think about it from time to time, and I kind of have to say to myself ... Well, it actually makes more sense not to run into other starships a lot.
That being said, dstahl's mentioned they are looking into social imrpovements for the game. I believe he's mentioned in a post or two that they are aware of level banding issues and the like with Fleet Actions. And that they are looking into ideas to deal with the overall issue.
Bottom line is that when you sell a million copies of a game, and less than 20% of those are still playing the game 60 days in, you aren't doing something right. In fact you are doing something very wrong.
Can you give me hard empirical evidence of the initial box sales and the irrefutable proof that it's down to 20%?
I went into most of the different systems and they were pretty much all vacant. Different systems use different servers. Pretty sure of that anyway, as do different instances.
There's only one server - with all systems being broken up into various instances to help reduce lag.
Late Saturday Night (PST), I saw around 500+ players between 12 instances of Sol's Interior Portion. Outside, there were around 300 people flying around between different Sol Space instances.
Some maps do feel lonely - if only because players spend more time in mission instances than in social hubs (there's little downtime and therefore little reason to return to social hubs).
Oooooooh. I never checked on this. Up until the last patch Auto-Teaming was automatically on. Did they maybe just change it so the default setting was off?
That would also explain a lot.
Lots of things I didn't even think to test when I was testing out difficulty sliders and exploration missions.
D'oh, I spoke without testing, myself.
I believe the option you want to look for is in the Social menu, LFG Settings - Set "Looking for Group Mode" to "Open Teaming" if you want to join other people's maps. I haven't played around with these settings recently though, so I may be mistaken.
when you sell a million copies of a game, and less than 20% of those are still playing the game 60 days in, you aren't doing something right. In fact you are doing something very wrong.
Unless this is a WAD....
Design a game with big appeal and promote in all Sci-Fi venues.
Sell pre-orders and Lifetime memberships, to recoup expenses and build cash fund.
Sell a million copies of the game. Crypic made it's big money, especially since you need to subscribe to play
Send the programming team off to the next project, while a highly reduced crew trys to keep people happy.
Reduced load allows that hardware to be dedicated to the "New" project
Existing players try to recuit more for the cryptic points / ships / tribbles, and to have someone to play.
Big Losers = Lifetimers who ponied up for 2+ years of the original game.
Design a game with big appeal and promote in all Sci-Fi venues.
Sell pre-orders and Lifetime memberships, to recoup expenses and build cash fund.
Sell a million copies of the game. Crypic made it's big money, especially since you need to subscribe to play
Send the programming team off to the next project, while a highly reduced crew trys to keep people happy.
Reduced load allows that hardware to be dedicated to the "New" project
Existing players try to recuit more for the cryptic points / ships / tribbles, and to have someone to play.
Big Losers = Lifetimers who ponied up for 2+ years of the original game.
Am I wrong, or do I have this picture right?
Looks about right to me. Here's hoping that this failure may break the chain.
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
Really, funny how I saw as many instances of Starbase 1 (40 or so) at peak times this weekend as I saw in open beta. Also, you DO realize it's ONE live server with many instances, and (unless teamed) when you go into a zone to do a mission, it's your own private zone - the only exception of ourse is Deep Space Encounters or Fleet Action Zones; and also realize that EVERY MMO (Even World of Warcraft in the first 3 months it was out - the' explosion' didn't happen until they had the servers stable enough - which TOOK them 90 days - and they put the game back in stores).
But hey, who wants facts in a 'game is dying' thread?
Design a game with big appeal and promote in all Sci-Fi venues.
Sell pre-orders and Lifetime memberships, to recoup expenses and build cash fund.
Sell a million copies of the game. Crypic made it's big money, especially since you need to subscribe to play
Send the programming team off to the next project, while a highly reduced crew trys to keep people happy.
Reduced load allows that hardware to be dedicated to the "New" project
Existing players try to recuit more for the cryptic points / ships / tribbles, and to have someone to play.
Big Losers = Lifetimers who ponied up for 2+ years of the original game.
Am I wrong, or do I have this picture right?
Really, Cryptic sent the Dev Team 'off to the next project'?
Then I guess The Calendar (Link) (which outlines upcoming content resease dates); the Engineering Reports (Link) ( (which show what major bugs are being addressed - as well as what stuff is being developed and when it's will be on the Calendar and in game) ; and the Dev Tracker (link) (which does a good job of showing Developer and GM posts soon after they're up); are all smoke and mirrors, or Cryptic has somehow develped an AI system that automates ST development).
Yep, there's nothing but emperical evidence showing how Cryptic has completely pulled th STO Dev team and moved them to their next MMO project...oh, wait...
Design a game with big appeal and promote in all Sci-Fi venues.
Sell pre-orders and Lifetime memberships, to recoup expenses and build cash fund.
Sell a million copies of the game. Crypic made it's big money, especially since you need to subscribe to play
Send the programming team off to the next project, while a highly reduced crew trys to keep people happy.
Reduced load allows that hardware to be dedicated to the "New" project
Existing players try to recuit more for the cryptic points / ships / tribbles, and to have someone to play.
Big Losers = Lifetimers who ponied up for 2+ years of the original game.
Am I wrong, or do I have this picture right?
Wrong on many points. Devs stated multiple times that the STO live team was not reduced from the Development team. In fact, they added in some new people recently.
And recruitment programs kind of flies in the face of reducing server load yes?
Comments
How many of the game's servers did you find vacant?
Which is why it sometimes seems vacant. For instance(ahem) you cant see people doing missions.
Anyways... You don't see the problem with opening up all instances to both factions?
A hint... Opposite factions does not really endorse letting the enemy in a war into their territory.
Mainly because the game does not distinguish between fed and klingon missions right now.
As a result during the end of Beta event when klinks could enter fed space i ended up taking fed missions.
I remember what it was first like when it came out. Population is a joke now.
No I don't see a problem with opening up all instances, except for the exception I mentioned. Every major MMO allows open pvp. Some use a flagging system, some use a safe zone set up.
And no they don't 'endorse' letting an enemy into their territory - THAT's WHY YOU WOULD BE FLAGGED.
This has been discussed to death and there is a huge portion of the population that does NOT want any form of open PVP. There are many that don't even want a "neutral zone" setting of only one sector of space separated from those that want to PVE.
Just because a person dose not flag for PVP does not mean that they don't get griefed. Many times in the games where flagging is required, the flagged PVP player will simply kill everything around so the non-flagged player still can't do anything.
So open PVP will not work. You'll draw in those that want it, and you'll loose those that don't. And since STO was marketed as a casual players game you probably won't get it into many peoples heads that the game has gone more hardcore. So you'll loose a larger portion of the population then you brought in. And you're left with the same problem.
So immersion wont be broken with enemies flying here and there in enemy territory and you can't do anything about it?
And you know... Not everyone want pvp. Some play this game just because there is a lack of it.
Because well... *cough cough* PvP tend to bring out the "best" in folks.
Like calling everyone noobs(which would be slang for idiot) in their posts. *hint hint*
the Dev's said before that they want to get the PVP they have to feel right first, and i am completely behind this decision.... because honestly, even after all the ballance fixes it is still an unballanced mess.
Also Open PVP Sectors would be dominated by the Federation -> bigger in numbers, so it still needs to be instanced and queued somehow which again breaks the Illusion of OPEN pvp...
i'd say first increased the Klingon Population (Episode Missions!!! more custumization, more clothing stuff... etc.)
and just so you know Klingons did not get Episode Missions for now, but the Federation did get none either, so far it was all "Special Task Forces" (and Klingons can do them too).
Oh and Klingons got *exploration clusters* and all the Fleetactions AFAIK.
There are as many instances as required by the population at any one time
each instance can have a maximum if 50 players. If there are 120 players in a sector then the game will create 3 instances and split the population between them to around 40 players in each ( which is dynamic )
for instance, In the Beta Ursae sector (Deep Space 9 ) there are now 2 instances with 19 players in one and 20 in the other.
The game is now pretty much reduced to 2 instances in every sector of the game except for those where the rear admirals gather to do nothing.
No not EVERY MAJOR MMO has open PvP. For example LoTRO only has a system similar to STO, it's called PvMP in that PvP only occurs in a sectioned off area. The monsters aren't allowed out of this area.
So what the OP is asking...is for STO to FREE THE MONSTERS! :eek:
not every mmorpg needs pvp. open pvp is more prevalent in the imported, level grinding trash than western mmorpg's.
of course you could bring up wow, and i could bring up the fact that even on the PVP servers, people spend most of their time doing pve raiding and battlegrounds than open pvp.
this game has all the pvp it needs. open pvp will make it more niche. if you want the eve experience, go play eve
or are you one of those that wants to gank but is too afraid if there are consequences like losing gear and skillpoints etc.?
Thanks for the feedback.
my experiance is vastly different.
Take care and I hope you find something you like.
Bottom line is that when you sell a million copies of a game, and less than 20% of those are still playing the game 60 days in, you aren't doing something right. In fact you are doing something very wrong.
Eventually, it may be better... hopefully before the game hits the closeout bin.
You might be onto something there. The programming is probably keeping Elite people and Normal people from joining in the same mission because it'll tick them both off.
Or maybe not? I didn't do any testing with the system where I actively tried to notice that.
Fleet Actions, Earth Spacedock, Qo'noS, Sector Space, and several other places are shared, so everyone can see each other there. Zone chat should cross instances of the mission you're in, so if you're looking for people doing your mission, you can probably ask in Zone.
Also, Fleet Actions segregate players by rank now. Also, Cryptic reduced the maximum number of players allowed per instance. (It's now at 25 in social areas.)
Now, I'm not saying there hasn't been population decline. There has. But by and large, most instances I see are either full or at least the 3rd or 4th instance shard for an area to open up but you'll see less people in front of you because Cryptic is allowing less people into each instance now.
Oooooooh. I never checked on this. Up until the last patch Auto-Teaming was automatically on. Did they maybe just change it so the default setting was off?
That would also explain a lot.
Lots of things I didn't even think to test when I was testing out difficulty sliders and exploration missions.
EDIT: And this is something that's always in the back of my mind when this topic gets discussed. From a purely AESTHETIC point of view ...
Space is kind of big. It's slightly more believable to be lonely and separated in space. I understand that doesn't always mesh with the desired social aspects of an MMO. But I do think about it from time to time, and I kind of have to say to myself ... Well, it actually makes more sense not to run into other starships a lot.
That being said, dstahl's mentioned they are looking into social imrpovements for the game. I believe he's mentioned in a post or two that they are aware of level banding issues and the like with Fleet Actions. And that they are looking into ideas to deal with the overall issue.
You mean the same event that inspired many testers (including myself) to log out early due to sheer frustration? :rolleyes:
Yeah that's what i thought.
:rolleyes:
Late Saturday Night (PST), I saw around 500+ players between 12 instances of Sol's Interior Portion. Outside, there were around 300 people flying around between different Sol Space instances.
Some maps do feel lonely - if only because players spend more time in mission instances than in social hubs (there's little downtime and therefore little reason to return to social hubs).
D'oh, I spoke without testing, myself.
I believe the option you want to look for is in the Social menu, LFG Settings - Set "Looking for Group Mode" to "Open Teaming" if you want to join other people's maps. I haven't played around with these settings recently though, so I may be mistaken.
Unless this is a WAD....
Design a game with big appeal and promote in all Sci-Fi venues.
Sell pre-orders and Lifetime memberships, to recoup expenses and build cash fund.
Sell a million copies of the game. Crypic made it's big money, especially since you need to subscribe to play
Send the programming team off to the next project, while a highly reduced crew trys to keep people happy.
Reduced load allows that hardware to be dedicated to the "New" project
Existing players try to recuit more for the cryptic points / ships / tribbles, and to have someone to play.
Big Losers = Lifetimers who ponied up for 2+ years of the original game.
Am I wrong, or do I have this picture right?
Looks about right to me. Here's hoping that this failure may break the chain.
Really, funny how I saw as many instances of Starbase 1 (40 or so) at peak times this weekend as I saw in open beta. Also, you DO realize it's ONE live server with many instances, and (unless teamed) when you go into a zone to do a mission, it's your own private zone - the only exception of ourse is Deep Space Encounters or Fleet Action Zones; and also realize that EVERY MMO (Even World of Warcraft in the first 3 months it was out - the' explosion' didn't happen until they had the servers stable enough - which TOOK them 90 days - and they put the game back in stores).
But hey, who wants facts in a 'game is dying' thread?
Really, Cryptic sent the Dev Team 'off to the next project'?
Then I guess The Calendar (Link) (which outlines upcoming content resease dates); the Engineering Reports (Link) ( (which show what major bugs are being addressed - as well as what stuff is being developed and when it's will be on the Calendar and in game) ; and the Dev Tracker (link) (which does a good job of showing Developer and GM posts soon after they're up); are all smoke and mirrors, or Cryptic has somehow develped an AI system that automates ST development).
Yep, there's nothing but emperical evidence showing how Cryptic has completely pulled th STO Dev team and moved them to their next MMO project...oh, wait...
Wrong on many points. Devs stated multiple times that the STO live team was not reduced from the Development team. In fact, they added in some new people recently.
And recruitment programs kind of flies in the face of reducing server load yes?