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Sportmanship in PvP

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited May 2010 in PvP Gameplay
All;

Have noticed a *few* bad apples in PvP over the last couple weeks. Now, leaving aside the whole "this and that is OP" arguments, escort vs cruiser vs sci vs <insert ship here> discussions - good sportsmanship doesn't care what class or ship you fly. It matters how much class you have in your ship (or on the ground)

Example - last evening - post went out by a player "griefing rock <rock = rstoney> because he is exploiting TSS and so-and-so because he is exploiting HYT" When asked why by a teammate, would he intentionally do these things (recognizing the extremely poor sportsmanship) the poor-sport just replied "because I can" Needless to say, I doubt the answer earned the person any respect.

Other examples - watching other player get tagged with "Fed newbie because he/she doesn't know how to play - so I gank them to drive them out"
-- "Too bad we cannot get a team in here that knows how to play"
-- And the list goes on...and on....and on...and on...and on......


Now - if you are among those that only use half of your skills, being careful to not annoy any of your opposing forces, never utilize abilities that would possibly heal yourself, or make you harder to kill, and are sure to only do actions which you are positive will always turn out 100% favorable, then you have my thanks. That would be about it.....but you have that anyway.

For the rest of the folks - instead of immature unsportsmanlike remarks - You can offer helpful suggestions (that the other player is free to take or ignore, he paid his montly fee as well) You can offer kudos if someone stayed in a fight, even if it was pretty much hopeless, or a wide array of other **appropriate, sportsmanlike** commentary. Or you can just kindly shut the hell up. Trust me, your "elite mad skillz" are not that impressive, and you are a legend only in your own mind.

Note - this applies to both factions, Fed and Klink.

Kudos to those (far too many players to list over the last week) who pass on these types of positive comments, including one yesterday "Great job Feds, even if it was horribly imbalanced teams - you did well"


You know - freakin' outstanding! This is the type of comment that should be routine!! I apologize for not putting out names -- truly I have gotten many zone and tell messages with this sort of tone. Please all the players that do this -- YOU ADD ENJOYMENT AND FUN BACK TO THE GAME -- KEEP IT UP !!!!!


Also - for those that pass out these comment - perhaps it might not be a bad idea to help "educate" the less intelligent that believe belittling other players is somehow appropriate. Please try to do so privately though, as would be proper.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, I feel sometimes you need to be a good sport on both ends of the win/loss result. Have a good sense of humor when you lose, and see the bright side. Gaining experience, scoring more kills than you expected, and just joking around a little after in /zone ("Next time Gadget, next time!", "Which button shoots again?"). Heck, I frequently send tells to the Klingons I fight against to congratulate them on nice duels in the middle of PvP maps, etc. Plus, if you end up friending them, sometimes you learn more about how to counter what they do (i.e. "Next time, if you want to stop me from doing X, do Y").

    As for being on the winning side, I find it's always good to at least say it was a good game, and especially to give kudos to players who stick around on heavily outnumbered matches or performed quite well ("nice tanking of the spike damage", "awesome healing", etc). And if it's a pre-made or a group that listens, to go to smaller engagements if it's 5:1 or something to give the guy a chance.

    If you just abuse a match and kill a guy in 3 seconds each time, he'll tire of PvP and that's one less guy available to PvP with.

    Heck, last night was the extreme example. A bunch of us took a break from T5 PvP Fed side and rolled new Klingon Lieutenants. The 5 of us enter an arena match, 5:3 . After one battle, 2 of the 3 log off stranding the last guy outnumbered 5:1, who it turns out was trying PvP for the first time. So we all just cloaked, and just ran 1:1 against him, giving PvP tips in /zone and advice as we progressed, and watched as he started to get better.

    It took forever to finish the match, but we figured what the heck, we were in a sporting mood and didn't mind. We just chatted in vent critiquing him and figuring out what he needed to do to counter us, then we'd say it in /zone.

    So now, I'd wager he's looking forward to his next PvP at least rather than hurting over getting destroyed by 5 guys attacking him at once 13 times in a row.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    What you might classify as bad sportsmanship others might classify as good Zone chat PvP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ninjaboy wrote: »
    What you might classify as bad sportsmanship others might classify as good Zone chat PvP.

    I would admit that at times, sarcasm doesn't translate well in /zone either. A sarcastic/joking comment can be interpreted as being serious if they don't throw in a ":p" or something at the end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    RStoney wrote: »
    All;

    Example - last evening - post went out by a player "griefing rock <rock = rstoney> because he is exploiting TSS and so-and-so because he is exploiting HYT" When asked why by a teammate, would he intentionally do these things (recognizing the extremely poor sportsmanship) the poor-sport just replied "because I can" Needless to say, I doubt the answer earned the person any respect.

    The only poor sportmanship i see in this quote is from those who call someone using a certain set of BO Skills an exploiter. If the one using it replys then in an annoyed manner its nothing to be surprised about.

    Only cause you dont use TSS or HYT (btw i have no clue whats exploiting HYT is) does not mean that anyone else using it is a exploiter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    HYT - High Yield Torp. They hit for several times the damage of normal torps. In my case.... right before firing I would hit TSS and HYT. Fire your high yield torps to try and hit right when the shields drop. If you get the timing right - great combo.

    Yes - I to find it funny - the person in question certainly makes full use of Cannon Rapid Fire, etc etc etc, but feels offended by someone 'over-using" something that drops his shields. Go figure.

    And yes - the 'good sportsmanship' does certainly need to be extended on both sides of the win/lose. I am sure we will all spend time on both sides! Thanks for that outlook, Ambience.
    After one battle, 2 of the 3 log off stranding the last guy outnumbered 5:1, who it turns out was trying PvP for the first time. So we all just cloaked, and just ran 1:1 against him, giving PvP tips in /zone and advice as we progressed, and watched as he started to get better.

    HERE IS WHAT I AM SPEAKING ABOUT !!! EXCELLENT !! Not only did Ambience's team help 'boost' up a bad situation to something decent - his team too the chance to ensure we have *good quality* PvP in the future!! KUDOS !!!



    Also - I would like to stress what is my personal opinion here - There are a *FEW* bad apples in PvP. By far, my experience suggests the majority of the players are of the caliber of Ambience and his team. (or her?)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think its a game and a competition.
    If by making some snide comment I can keep 2 or 3 players chasing me around rather then capturing flags then I have used psychological warfare and if that helps my side win then I have done my job.

    I think freedom of speech means being able to ***** just as much as it means I can be nice. I would much rather a person was honest rather then just pretending to happy when you know they are not. As far as I'm concerned most people that expect others to behave in a specific way have a personal agenda they are trying to enforce.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree, regardless of the outcome of a game, I always feel it's good sportsmanship to give a GG. When the game was a spectacular battle win or lose I will give a GG Feds and praise those I think did extraordinarily well. As an aside, I always find it quite funny when a Fed escort suicides into a FBP/TSS1 or 2 combo and whines at the use of FBP.


    We all know, the power that "needs" to be "nerfed" in the game is the one that kills you or gives YOU the most grief. For escorts it's FBP, for Cruisers it's stacked TSS, and for Sci ships it's being caught with your pants down to an Alpha Strke. And for everyone else there is SNB, RSP, or OMFGBBQ.


    In the end, be you Fed or Kling, we're all in this together and need each others participation to make PvP possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    HYT can be exploited? Now I've heard everything...

    The term exploited has come full circle and can now be applied to everything you click.

    Also, HYT do not hit harder. It just fires multiples of each torpedo, of which each one has a chance to critical, miss, and cause the damage of a single torpedo. Not to be confused with torp spread, which increases in damage with each rank and only hits once, no matter how many torps are fired.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I've been in on some interesting scenarios and Zone Chats in PvP as a member of DOB...go figure, right? There was a 5v5 which for some reason only loaded three on the opposite team. As we were a Premade group that evening we messaged them we would wait. No more players joined so a player on their team...we'll call him Vinnie...says "Hey, let's 1v1."

    We proceed to 1v1 him 5 times in a row with each member taking a turn and defeating him. Vinnie was very cool, we offered him tips/advice, and ended with "GG" all around and so forth.

    Flash forward a week. We are in a Premade group again and run into a PUG with Vinnie on the team. Remembering his name, I send out a "Hey, Vinnie" over Zone. No reply. We roll the PUG 15-0 and immediately around the 10-0 mark Vinnie starts with the "You guys are no-skill exploiters" and "You guys are cheap and suck" and progressively digressing into profanity and personal attacks. Bipolar? Jekyll and Hyde syndrome? Just an idiot? Bad day? No idea, but the point is this type of Zone Chat goes on in all games...be it MMO's or FPS's or RTS's on consoles and PC's. Consoles have it worse generally with voice channels so you run the full range of racial, sexual orientation, and intelligence/skill insults.

    You're in a game with hundreds of thousands of different players from around the world with different ages, maturity levels, socio-economic upbringings, and educational backgrounds. You're bound to have these types of chat conversations sooner or later. It's sad but a part of being a member of an online community...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Otheym81 wrote: »
    Also, HYT do not hit harder. It just fires multiples of each torpedo, of which each one has a chance to critical, miss, and cause the damage of a single torpedo.

    Small correction...HYT does increase the damage of each torpedo slightly. Click on THY in your Power Tray and then hover over your torpedo and you'll see the damage increase displayed as well as firing two or more individual torpedoes. Do agree with the rest of your post regarding the non-exploitable nature of the power.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    1234567890
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    BountyXP wrote: »
    You're in a game with hundreds of thousands of different players from around the world with different ages, maturity levels, socio-economic upbringings, and educational backgrounds. You're bound to have these types of chat conversations sooner or later. It's sad but a part of being a member of an online community...

    especially when you are heavily involved in pvp. Best is to grow a thick skin cause insults will come sooner or later ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    tbh as an average player i have had relatively little in the way of smack talk in zone, a bit sure but not nearly as much as in other games i have played
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    BountyXP wrote: »
    Small correction...HYT does increase the damage of each torpedo slightly. Click on THY in your Power Tray and then hover over your torpedo and you'll see the damage increase displayed as well as firing two or more individual torpedoes. Do agree with the rest of your post regarding the non-exploitable nature of the power.

    Ya, you're right, I just jumped down on the TRIBBLE of calling everything exploitable. It does increase the damage slightly, I had forgotten that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Otheym81 wrote: »
    Ya, you're right, I just jumped down on the TRIBBLE of calling everything exploitable. It does increase the damage slightly, I had forgotten that.

    Eh...it happens to me all the time. Besides, I've flown against you before in matches with my DOB teammates and whatever you're doing and using is fine. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    BountyXP wrote: »
    Eh...it happens to me all the time. Besides, I've flown against you before in matches with my DOB teammates and whatever you're doing and using is fine. ;)

    Bounty use spacepowers and win games I hate him. cheater!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I tend to just laugh at the bad mouthing, it's just so immature. I've been in teams where I've crushed the opposition, not once did I feel the need to bad mouth them.

    There was one occasion though it did rile me up, not because of what was said, but the fact they were doing it at all, so I lost my temper and decided to act as immature as them. So I repeatedly logged in and out, just as they started shooting me. Did that 10 times or so, probably much more. Not something I'm proud of, but I was so sick of that sort of maturity in PVP, that I couldn't give a damn at the time (plus I was already in a bad mood).

    Some PVPer's - specifically premades - tend to take the PvP far too seriously, setting up websites, doing podcasts. It's a game, not an occupation. More to the point, it's not exactly one that's likely to last a long time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Zorena wrote:
    Bounty use spacepowers and win games I hate him. cheater!

    You forgot "exploiter"...;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Excuse me (im drunk btw)

    But sportsmanship in a MMO and particulary STO?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    RStoney wrote: »
    All;

    Have noticed a *few* bad apples in PvP over the last couple weeks. Now, leaving aside the whole "this and that is OP" arguments, escort vs cruiser vs sci vs <insert ship here> discussions - good sportsmanship doesn't care what class or ship you fly. It matters how much class you have in your ship (or on the ground)

    Example - last evening - post went out by a player "griefing rock <rock = rstoney> because he is exploiting TSS and so-and-so because he is exploiting HYT" When asked why by a teammate, would he intentionally do these things (recognizing the extremely poor sportsmanship) the poor-sport just replied "because I can" Needless to say, I doubt the answer earned the person any respect.

    Other examples - watching other player get tagged with "Fed newbie because he/she doesn't know how to play - so I gank them to drive them out"
    -- "Too bad we cannot get a team in here that knows how to play"
    -- And the list goes on...and on....and on...and on...and on......


    Now - if you are among those that only use half of your skills, being careful to not annoy any of your opposing forces, never utilize abilities that would possibly heal yourself, or make you harder to kill, and are sure to only do actions which you are positive will always turn out 100% favorable, then you have my thanks. That would be about it.....but you have that anyway.

    For the rest of the folks - instead of immature unsportsmanlike remarks - You can offer helpful suggestions (that the other player is free to take or ignore, he paid his montly fee as well) You can offer kudos if someone stayed in a fight, even if it was pretty much hopeless, or a wide array of other **appropriate, sportsmanlike** commentary. Or you can just kindly shut the hell up. Trust me, your "elite mad skillz" are not that impressive, and you are a legend only in your own mind.

    Note - this applies to both factions, Fed and Klink.

    Kudos to those (far too many players to list over the last week) who pass on these types of positive comments, including one yesterday "Great job Feds, even if it was horribly imbalanced teams - you did well"


    You know - freakin' outstanding! This is the type of comment that should be routine!! I apologize for not putting out names -- truly I have gotten many zone and tell messages with this sort of tone. Please all the players that do this -- YOU ADD ENJOYMENT AND FUN BACK TO THE GAME -- KEEP IT UP !!!!!


    Also - for those that pass out these comment - perhaps it might not be a bad idea to help "educate" the less intelligent that believe belittling other players is somehow appropriate. Please try to do so privately though, as would be proper.




    You people have completely missed the point of this. Yes, comments can be bad sportsmanship; but the whole point is that comments are not the only part of sportsmanship. The way you choose to play the game is a part of sportsmanship, and let's face it, not everyone is playing nicely. By that I mean there is 8 or 9 of you who are going out of there way to find what's broken in the game and exploit it under the guise of "it's a feature not a bug". Yeah, the que system letting in 8 of you against 2 is real fricken feature.

    Wondering why people call you names? No, they are just mad because they lost. WRONG. They are mad because you are being a bad sport by trying to gain unfair advantage. You can justify it any way you like. I really don't care what excuse you come up with. In the end it is morally unacceptable, ethically vacant, and immature to exploit the things that are not working. You should be helping to fix it, not helping to run off every pvp player.

    Fight fairly and you will enjoy the game even if you lose; and less people will call you names. When it is uneven, try sitting out until more come, or have a competition to see who can kill who in a 1:1 fist fight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cpt. wrote:
    You people have completely missed the point of this. Yes, comments can be bad sportsmanship; but the whole point is that comments are not the only part of sportsmanship. The way you choose to play the game is a part of sportsmanship, and let's face it, not everyone is playing nicely. By that I mean there is 8 or 9 of you who are going out of there way to find what's broken in the game and exploit it under the guise of "it's a feature not a bug". Yeah, the que system letting in 8 of you against 2 is real fricken feature.

    Wondering why people call you names? No, they are just mad because they lost. WRONG. They are mad because you are being a bad sport by trying to gain unfair advantage. You can justify it any way you like. I really don't care what excuse you come up with. In the end it is morally unacceptable, ethically vacant, and immature to exploit the things that are not working. You should be helping to fix it, not helping to run off every pvp player.

    Fight fairly and you will enjoy the game even if you lose; and less people will call you names. When it is uneven, try sitting out until more come, or have a competition to see who can kill who in a 1:1 fist fight.

    In the interests of fairness and open discussion I'd like to see what people feel is "fair play." Does that mean no TSS use? No use of Subnucleonic Beam? No use of focus firing or Vent communications? No use of +30 consoles if rightfully earned in game? No use of the MK IV Efficient Engines even though every Fed player had the opportunity to get them and choose something else instead? Not trying to flame just genuinely interested in the psychology behind statements of "fair play" and "sportsmanship."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Would you bring a gun to a knife fight? I would and will, especially if everybody in the fight had the chance to do the same. Comments advocating fairplay are all well and good, but they will not stop your hull from melting under focused fire, nor stop your crew from burning to death.

    Its an unfortunate reality, and I do see why people are asking for fair play (especially when applied to TSS), but I dont pay to play this game in order to fortify my good karma by dropping some tools that are considered over powered by some players. Apologies if this isn't to your liking.

    Back to the OP - I do see people ranting (or venting from their prespective), but on the whole, the vast majority of players I've encountered in PVP are gracious and have a good sense of sportsmanship. I've taken my beatings in PVP and have been part of many 15-0 defeats, but nearly everytime the victorious group has always said GG. Likewise, I always try to do the same.

    Smack talk is idiotic. I am a grown man, working during the week with a credit card playing for a passtime. I am not a 6 year old boy running around pulling girls pigtails in the playground.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Like most fed players I didn't do any pvp till I got to RA on my first Toon. I had my backside handed to me match after match. I got anoyed and remember telling my wife I was done. ;) Then I though about what happend for an evening and the next day retooled my build. I won't say I rule PVP now but I don't get anoyed when I get smoked. I understand now what I've done wrong when I (sometimes ;)) get my backside handed to me. If I didn't have a heal or a speed buff ready to save me... my fault good game. If my sheilds go bye bye cause I didn't transfer power or hit emg to shields in time... my fault good game.

    If I go up against guys that hold back on me... thats poor sportsmanship. Bring it, and so will I.

    I haven't run into anything in this game that after I sat back and thought about it I was unable to counter someway. That does not mean I counter everything no. Sometimes I pop something to early and a good opponent knows I"m ripe for X or Y. I used to smile when I would hit a sci team and then get hit with VM. It was just good game play not poor sportsmanship.

    The pvp could be set up a little bit better to tier players somehow. I think really though if something seems overpowered... well look at your build. If you get hit by TSS all the time, drop the 2 eng teams you likely have and add a Emergency to sheilds or engines. A good counter to TSS Shields is to Hit emergency to eng and evasive and get out of dodge. ;) just kidden
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Would you bring a gun to a knife fight? I would and will, especially if everybody in the fight had the chance to do the same. Comments advocating fairplay are all well and good, but they will not stop your hull from melting under focused fire, nor stop your crew from burning to death.

    Its an unfortunate reality, and I do see why people are asking for fair play (especially when applied to TSS), but I dont pay to play this game in order to fortify my good karma by dropping some tools that are considered over powered by some players. Apologies if this isn't to your liking.

    This is not about a specific skill or a specific weapon. This is about people, apparently much like yourself by your statement, who will do whatever they can to exploit any game mechanic that is not working. You agreed not to do it to play the game, and now that you're in you're saying you will do it. That's a breach of contract. (I'm sorry if THAT is not to your liking.)-sarcastic remark

    Now to answer what is fair play....

    Of coarse, that is going to change from person to person. All you have to do is use a guide:

    Not likely fair play if:

    .....you are just running or flying through the map without any thought, and killing people in one shot-
    .....you are being shot by 5 people and not taking any damage-
    .....you find yourself debating what is fair because you were accused of cheating-
    .....you have no idea what tactics are, or why they are used
    .....there are 5 people chasing down 1 person
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Husanak wrote: »
    The pvp could be set up a little bit better to tier players somehow.

    Agree with this 100%...leaderboards and True Skill rankings would make this game markedly better. Players would find themselves teamed with both teammates and opponents of similar skill levels and thus be more effective and enjoy themselves more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    BountyXP wrote: »
    Agree with this 100%...leaderboards and True Skill rankings would make this game markedly better. Players would find themselves teamed with both teammates and opponents of similar skill levels and thus be more effective and enjoy themselves more.

    I would think that would be a bad idea even after they get the ques working. When somebody has less skill than you you should be teaching them so they can improve. When somebody has more than you, you should be taught. It is part of the fun really. If you section people off more than we already have, any chance of learning will go out the window.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cpt. wrote:
    This is not about a specific skill or a specific weapon. This is about people, apparently much like yourself by your statement, who will do whatever they can to exploit any game mechanic that is not working. You agreed not to do it to play the game, and now that you're in you're saying you will do it. That's a breach of contract. (I'm sorry if THAT is not to your liking.)-sarcastic remark

    Now to answer what is fair play....

    Of coarse, that is going to change from person to person. All you have to do is use a guide:

    Not likely fair play if:

    .....you are just running or flying through the map without any thought, and killing people in one shot-
    .....you are being shot by 5 people and not taking any damage-
    .....you find yourself debating what is fair because you were accused of cheating-
    .....you have no idea what tactics are, or why they are used
    .....there are 5 people chasing down 1 person

    I will respond to your ideas of fair play one at a time,

    1. I dont think a lone hunter is unfair play, If someone has the balls in this game to travel alone and pick off stragglers or lost sheep then more power to them. I do it sometimes and it can be really fun. I know for a fact that a good captain can survive my best alpha attacks if they are paying attention. I will say that I can hit hard and fast so you better be on the ball or you will die.

    2. A really good cruiser or sci ship can take a beating for a while if they are built right and using stacked defenses. That is not unfair its just knowing how to tank, That of course doesn't mean they wont die it just means you need to get creative or just pound it into oblvions even if it takes 30 seconds.

    3. I agree with that one but hey if people are still learning they will get frustrated so either help them ignore them or debate them but at least realize its usually not personal.

    4. Thats a bit confusing, if you dont know tactics you not likely to be much of a threat to good players that nor unfair thats called the learning curve,

    5. I love when i get 5 people chasing me becuase that means the rest of my side is either waiting for me to pull them into a death trap or they are off capturing flags so that we win the game. If I can get 5 people chasing me all over the place then I am the one in control and that is not unfair thats is tactics.


    So as far as I can see you have not made a very good guide for what is unfair.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cpt. wrote:
    I would think that would be a bad idea even after they get the ques working. When somebody has less skill than you you should be teaching them so they can improve. When somebody has more than you, you should be taught. It is part of the fun really. If you section people off more than we already have, any chance of learning will go out the window.

    Being able to teach requires one important caveat...a pupil willing to learn. By the rampant cries of "nerf" and the majority of the casual players wanting the more skilled minority brought down to their level rather than improving that's not so likely to happen. If those individuals want to casually play and purchased the game for the Star Trek name and not to be competitive PvP'ers they can play with like-minded and similarly skilled individuals. Premade PvP'ers can be matched with similarly skilled opponents and then everyone is happy.

    When DOB first started PvP'ing we lost our first 10 to 15 matches in a row. We examined our strategy and the opponent's and began to practice, revise skills/loadouts, employ new strategy and now rarely lose. That's from an innate desire to improve. No one showed us a thing. No one taught us strategy. Experience was our teacher and is that way for those who play competitively. Granted...that environment is not for everyone. And those players should have a venue to PvP and have fun too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Andor wrote: »
    I will respond to your ideas of fair play one at a time,

    1. I dont think a lone hunter is unfair play, If someone has the balls in this game to travel alone and pick off stragglers or lost sheep then more power to them. I do it sometimes and it can be really fun. I know for a fact that a good captain can survive my best alpha attacks if they are paying attention. I will say that I can hit hard and fast so you better be on the ball or you will die.

    2. A really good cruiser or sci ship can take a beating for a while if they are built right and using stacked defenses. That is not unfair its just knowing how to tank, That of course doesn't mean they wont die it just means you need to get creative or just pound it into oblvions even if it takes 30 seconds.

    3. I agree with that one but hey if people are still learning they will get frustrated so either help them ignore them or debate them but at least realize its usually not personal.

    4. Thats a bit confusing, if you dont know tactics you not likely to be much of a threat to good players that nor unfair thats called the learning curve,

    5. I love when i get 5 people chasing me becuase that means the rest of my side is either waiting for me to pull them into a death trap or they are off capturing flags so that we win the game. If I can get 5 people chasing me all over the place then I am the one in control and that is not unfair thats is tactics.


    So as far as I can see you have not made a very good guide for what is unfair.

    Like I told your friend, I don't care what your excuses are. No matter what anyone tells you you will disagree with them because you are trying to justify your actions. This is apparent by the way you are trying to twist my post to suit your end of the debate. I am adding another line to it:

    IF:
    ....you have to ask what fair play is
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    BountyXP wrote: »
    Being able to teach requires one important caveat...a pupil willing to learn. By the rampant cries of "nerf" and the majority of the casual players wanting the more skilled minority brought down to their level rather than improving that's not so likely to happen. If those individuals want to casually play and purchased the game for the Star Trek name and not to be competitive PvP'ers they can play with like-minded and similarly skilled individuals. Premade PvP'ers can be matched with similarly skilled opponents and then everyone is happy.

    When DOB first started PvP'ing we lost our first 10 to 15 matches in a row. We examined our strategy and the opponent's and began to practice, revise skills/loadouts, employ new strategy and now rarely lose. That's from an innate desire to improve. No one showed us a thing. No one taught us strategy. Experience was our teacher and is that way for those who play competitively. Granted...that environment is not for everyone. And those players should have a venue to PvP and have fun too.

    Most of us who do the PVP understand that we only learn by being Schooled. A system that ranked players wouldn't always be able to fill games with rank 2 or 4 or example... but it could even sides. I would also be great for the premade teams to be thrown up against a pug made up of high scoring pug players. It might challange some of the better groups players... and some of us more skilled pug players. It might just keep us all loggin on and playing. At least the devs would not have to take the nerf screams as serious.... "you got smacked around in the hard end of the pool. no kidden"
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