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STO Team Turn-over?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I knew Gozer was leaving, but I wasn't aware others were as well? I just read this in the new Engineering Reports.
dstahl wrote: »
You've also heard that some of our long time team members (like Gozer) are moving off to pursue other opportunities and we wish them all the best. While turn-over is common once titles ship, their impact on the game will be missed. There are a few items on the schedule that are shifting due to the transfer or loss of a few team members which is allowing us to bring several new team members up to speed on their work in progress. The STF Into the Hive (which is being rescoped to work with the upcoming new level cap) and the Caitians are the two things most impacted and have shifted as necessary.

I'm actually quite sad to read this. I wonder who is leaving and how will this impact the game?
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    I knew Gozer was leaving, but I wasn't aware others were as well? I just read this in the new Engineering Reports.



    I'm actually quite sad to read this. I wonder who is leaving and how will this impact the game?

    while it is nothing new. ( people leaving that is ) it mite have an impact. the big question is, is the main writer for the missions here? and are they going to replace them?

    ( and no for anyone negative, this is not about a sinking ship. )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    For some reason, (Connection unknown) the new people coming in and the old people leaving has caused the Caitians to be pushed back. So in that respect there has been an impact.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    To put my comments in perspective, turnover happens all the time. There have been your average number of people who have come and gone throughout the life of the project. Gozer's leavng has a special impact on the STF Into the Hive because it was his baby... he's been working on it for a long time... and we don't want to just put it up unfinished, so we're going to give the remaining parts to someone else to finish instead which is why it was pushed.

    While turnover hurts, we also have a large talent pool already in the company and no lack of new candidates who are ready to move to the team. In fact a new character artist who started last week is already cranking out new formal outfits as part of new types of off-duty costumes.

    The impact that did have though is that Matt (working on Caitians) had to take a week to bring them up to speed and since Matt is doing the Caitians himself, they might be delayed unless he pulls some crazy Scotty maneuver on me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    To put my comments in perspective, turnover happens all the time. There have been your average number of people who have come and gone throughout the life of the project. Gozer's impact has a special impact on the STF Into the Hive because it was his baby... he's been working on it for a long time... and we don't want to just put it up unfinished, so we're going to give the remaining parts to someone else to finish instead which is why it was pushed.

    While turnover hurts, we also have a large talent pool already in the company and no lack of new candidates who are ready to move to the team. In fact a new character artist who started last week is already cranking out new formal outfits as part of new types of off-duty costumes.

    The impact that did have though is that Matt (working on Caitians) had to take a week to bring them up to speed and since Matt is doing the Caitians himself, they might be delayed unless he pulls some crazy Scotty maneuver on me.

    Of course, now he's going to try to get them done early just because you've said that... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    He didn't tell you how long it'd REALLY take, did he?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    To put my comments in perspective, turnover happens all the time. There have been your average number of people who have come and gone throughout the life of the project. Gozer's leavng has a special impact on the STF Into the Hive because it was his baby... he's been working on it for a long time... and we don't want to just put it up unfinished, so we're going to give the remaining parts to someone else to finish instead which is why it was pushed.

    While turnover hurts, we also have a large talent pool already in the company and no lack of new candidates who are ready to move to the team. In fact a new character artist who started last week is already cranking out new formal outfits as part of new types of off-duty costumes.

    The impact that did have though is that Matt (working on Caitians) had to take a week to bring them up to speed and since Matt is doing the Caitians himself, they might be delayed unless he pulls some crazy Scotty maneuver on me.

    I read your response in the Engineering thread, so I now have a better perspective on the Caitian situation. Thanks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Uhm, what? That's not how this industry works at all. Many of the people working on this game left successful companies to come to Cryptic. Some people just like new challenges, and once the game launches they lose interest. Others want to change their physical location for personal reasons, and Cryptic doesn't do telecommuting. Gozer is a very sought-after developer. He turned down offers that would make your mouth water, and his new gig is geographically very far away from Cryptic.

    This has nothing to do with rats leaving sinking ships; this is skilled professionals seeking the next challenge or the perfect office culture.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.

    Bah

    *waves hand in a dismissing motion
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wrote:
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.
    At least among programmers I've found thats simply not that case. To be blunt, most of us rank and file in the games industry aren't going to get rich doing it. Some people like working on a particular franchise because they are a fan of the source material, but I would say this is a very small minority. Most of us work on games because there is no other challenge like this out there. The unique set of requirements on each person on the team makes for a job that is pretty much always pushing you. The downside of having an industry built on this kind of thrill-seaking is that people sometimes just get bored. We, as a community, always like to be pushing some boundary, and sometimes that means leaving your comfort zone and heading out in a new direction. From having been around a lot of creative people in my younger days, I think the same goes for many other groups too. Sometimes you just have to shake things up :-) Losing a team member like Gozer is always hard, but every other person on the team understands the urge so we try to just be happy for them and all their new possibilities.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.

    No. People leave for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they decide they just want to pursue a different profession. Maybe they want to move to another place. Etc etc. Fear mongering is all you're doing.
    - Kitkun
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.

    Gozer didn't start in the video game industry - he got hired at Cryptic after being part of the IT industry (according to an interview done a couple weeks ago). I personally wouldn't read too much into his departure - other than he's going somewhere he's especially passionate about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I've watched plenty of people walk away from jobs that others would kill to have. With everyone reading the tea leaves I wonder if a Cryptic employee can even clock out at night without someone saying, "man, they just walked out on STO."

    I don't care who leaves STO or why. I just play the game and enjoy it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.

    Re: Ralph Koster and SOE.....he was politely asked to leave because SOE wanted to take a new direction and Koster didn't agree with it. That was well documented.

    On the other side of the coin, most MMO's I have played (and that is a lot) I have noticed that people on the Dev teams leave a lot. Usually just a few here and there. In this case with STO, I don't see any new trend or anything to worry about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    coderanger wrote:
    To be blunt, most of us rank and file in the games industry aren't going to get rich doing it. .

    that's the sad reason why i changed my degree path to IT, with a biz minor from gaming. your not going to get rich, the hours are killer, and you have to deal with people like us. :D ( ok last one was a joke. )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Annatar11 wrote: »
    No. People leave for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they decide they just want to pursue a different profession. Maybe they want to move to another place. Etc etc. Fear mongering is all you're doing.
    - Kitkun

    Yes....how many devs has WoW lost? I'm sure it has to be many....people leave jobs all the time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    You guys have been around long enough to know, Devs come and go...doesn't mean TRIBBLE...new blood is good..brings new ideas...old guys more than likely got better paying jobs...

    fair winds and following seas to the old guys...Welcome new guys...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    Turnover at this level is a bad sign. If STO were a success, veteran Devs wouldn't want to leave.

    Talent generally looks to flee a sinking ship. A good example, when the NGE hit, ALL the good SWG Devs fled not only the game but SOE, including Raph Koster, all that were left were their interns and "gofers" who ironically are still running things there.

    ummm... what?!?! Since when is people moving around a bad thing? Some (most, actually I think) of the original WoW Dev Team have moved on, yet WoW appears to still be going along just fine, and has released expansion packs without some of the founding Devs.... just because people move on doesn't mean something is a failure.

    You have no idea what may have caused them to move on, what if Staff Member A's spouse got a good job in another state, should Staff Member A stay behind, just so you don't think STO is a 'sinking ship'?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    coderanger wrote:
    To be blunt, most of us rank and file in the games industry aren't going to get rich doing it. Some people like working on a particular franchise because they are a fan of the source material, but I would say this is a very small minority. Most of us work on games because there is no other challenge like this out there.

    I agree with you Coderanger.

    Back in my day before new fandangled contraptions like 64-Bit processors, G3s, rendering that didnt take 12 hours for 5 seconds of animation time, etc, we did it for the thrill of it. Working on new projects, making the latest greatest innovating product. It was all exciting.

    All though back then it was harder to replace someone who left for a different pasture. The pool was way to shallow and the talent untested. Probably why there's a ton of abandonware out there.

    When I left the company I spent 6 years with, developing educational software that most likely no one here has ever heard of or could afford even when it was sold ($3500 for one module back in 2000), it killed the program. It makes me nervous with Gozer leaving. Of course this is 2010 and a lot of people out there can pick up where he left off (at least skill wise).

    Its also hard to find someone who has the same vision. Games are an art form. And to find someone who can share the community vision of the game is hard.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Gruug wrote: »
    Re: Ralph Koster and SOE.....he was politely asked to leave because SOE wanted to take a new direction and Koster didn't agree with it. That was well documented.

    On the other side of the coin, most MMO's I have played (and that is a lot) I have noticed that people on the Dev teams leave a lot. Usually just a few here and there. In this case with STO, I don't see any new trend or anything to worry about.

    I think a lot of creative types including programmers are like myself. I got bored after working on the same thing after 2-3 years even if it's big and complex like an CRM system. For once I master the what ever the company produces/works on there is no challenge for me any more. I got bored and started looking for other work. Now I'm a Unix Systems Administrator and have been on the current job for over 10 years. Wben I got board there is always something new around the corner. I'm never bored for too long.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    syberghost wrote: »

    This has nothing to do with rats leaving sinking ships; this is skilled professionals seeking the next challenge or the perfect office culture.
    Does Cryptic write this stuff for you?

    Folks, it's rats jumping ship fast as they can. You can bank on it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    What if the new people they hired were better than the one's who took other jobs? Isn't that possible. I mean Michael Jordan took someones job when he got to the NBA.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Hagon wrote: »
    Does Cryptic write this stuff for you?

    Folks, it's rats jumping ship fast as they can. You can bank on it.

    Bah



    *waves hand in a dismissive motion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Bah



    *waves hand in a dismissive motion.
    RP forum (Ten Forward)
    >

    Thanks. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Hagon wrote: »
    RP forum (Ten Forward)
    >

    Thanks. :rolleyes:

    Actually I was just dismissing your comment. Thanks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Hagon wrote: »
    Does Cryptic write this stuff for you?

    Folks, it's rats jumping ship fast as they can. You can bank on it.

    One has to wonder, if you're so convinced the ship is sinking, why are you still on it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Actually I was just dismissing your comment. Thanks
    Oh, so that's how you act in real life? hahahahahahaahahaha!! :D:D:D
    Teranika wrote: »
    One has to wonder, if you're so convinced the ship is sinking, why are you still on it?
    Because I still have till the end of this month before my sub runs out, and since this game only provides a couple of weeks of game play before one wants to poke one's eyes out with a hot poker because of the repetitiveness, I need to get my money's worth of amusement somehow.

    That, and if I can warn even one person off wasting their money on this game I can pat myself on the back. I'm really into self gratification gigitty gigitty
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I hope it's just normal personnel turnover. I really do.

    In terms of believing you, it would have helped if the game was well-designed. Can't remember the last time I heard of a lead developer leaving Blizzard for a new company.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I hope it's just normal personnel turnover. I really do.

    In terms of believing you, it would have helped if the game was well-designed. Can't remember the last time I heard of a lead developer leaving Blizzard for a new company.

    Several of Blizzard's "lead developers" left Blizzard and formed Flagship Studios (the Hellgate:London folks).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    The impact that did have though is that Matt (working on Caitians) had to take a week to bring them up to speed and since Matt is doing the Caitians himself, they might be delayed unless he pulls some crazy Scotty maneuver on me.

    Please inform Matt that some of us are looking forward to the Caitians. Not only because it will be another race to perhaps give a new perspective on the game, but the new animation set sounds intriguing. I am interested to see just what that means, and how it will affect their walk, or maybe it's just for the tail. I don't know.

    In any case, Matt, before you go, kindly, give us our space kitties, if you please.
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