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Space Combat Feedback

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Hi all. First, I welcome an opening of a separate Feedback section. Good move, Cryptic! :thumbsup:

Now, although combat can be fun and satisfying, sometimes it just feels too fast and twitch-dependant. Also, some concepts and designs are a bit off for a space combat simulator. I'll list my suggestions here, and if anyone wishes so, can chime in and add up to the list. Hopefully, Cryptic will look into some of them and maybe even incorporate them into future patches.
  • I'm all for slight nerfing of dmg all around - energy weapons, projectiles, ramming speed dmg, the whole nine yards. Perhaps in a 15-20% range. All for a common goal of slowing combat down, making it more strategic than an fps-style twitchy click fest.
  • Since cannons are represented as a hybrid energy-projectile weapons, they should inflict half kinetic and half energy type dmg.
  • Also, cannon rounds travel slower to their target, and are unguided. I've seen ridiculous situations when a ship would go to Evasive Maneuvers while being fired upon, causing all the cannon rounds to follow it around before they impact. I know it's a visual representation, a relativistic way of making them visible (moving at a near-light speed at a distance of 10 km would make combat even more faster and unresponsive), but a difference must be made betwen them and a beam weapons, which impact almost-instantly the moment they are fired. Thus, I was thinking about lowering cannons' accuracy, while keeping the beams untouched.
  • In the ship description, Escorts are described as highly maneuvrable and thus hard to hit. Well, currently it is represented only by higher warp factor (0.20 compared to 0.15 of other ships) which gives them higher defense stat speed-wise. However, a ship should not move at a maximum speed to be hardest to hit. In fact, lower speed grants even more maneuvrability, however, the game simulates the opposite - the slower you are, the easier you are to hit. Additionally, Escort are smaller than most other ships, and should be even harder to hit, especially by cannons (see above). Thus, I'm proposing either an innate abillity for Escorts which grant them extra defense, emulating the fact that they are smaller and more maneuvrable than other ships, making them harder to hit; or a defense formula that takes turn rate and/or inertia into account. End result should be the same - making Escorts harder to hit, while not basing that only on their speed.
  • No weapons should have a significant damage drop-off with distance. We're fighting in space, not in an atmosphere. While there are gasses and radiations in the space which can interfere, it's mostly negligable compared to massive energy outputs of a ship-based weapon. Instead, for balancing issues, make the accuracy drop-off with distance, with steeper curve for cannons than for beams. Torpedoes should be unaffected, since they are guided.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    STO is done in a way that is a points system and not how you hit the target.

    So you move you turn how fast how slow and its the same with the target to which your dmg or how less dmg is done.

    And that for is not what I was hoping for in STO...but thats the way they went with this game.
    [*]No weapons should have a significant damage drop-off with distance. We're fighting in space, not in an atmosphere. While there are gasses and radiations in the space which can interfere, it's mostly negligable compared to massive energy outputs of a ship-based weapon. Instead, for balancing issues, make the accuracy drop-off with distance, with steeper curve for cannons than for beams. Torpedoes should be unaffected, since they are guided.
    [/LIST]
    If you think about it damage drop-off with distance and accuracy drop-off with distance are more or less the same thing...so 50% miss with 50% hit with accuracy full damage the 100% hit with damage drop-off with distance but even so your going to say what about 10% miss with 90% hit at close range well sure but then the weapons do too much damage as it so all weapons need to be reduced....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I have something else to add... Everyone knows that in space there is no "up" or "down".... so why cant our ships go completely vertical? I thing they should handle more like a jet fighter sim, all be it more slowly of course.... Its really annoying then fighting and your next group of enemies is about 25K straight down.... only options are to go way out and come back, or to do a downward spiral.


    just my $0.02
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Vartok wrote: »
    I have something else to add... Everyone knows that in space there is no "up" or "down".... so why cant our ships go completely vertical? I thing they should handle more like a jet fighter sim, all be it more slowly of course.... Its really annoying then fighting and your next group of enemies is about 25K straight down.... only options are to go way out and come back, or to do a downward spiral.


    just my $0.02

    Because its not canon for Star Trek ships to do handle in such a way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dryan wrote:
    Because its not canon for Star Trek ships to do handle in such a way.

    i would imagine they didnt handle that way in the shows because its hard to get a model on wires... to say do a loop for example. And im not even really asking for a complete inversion like that... id be happy with an extra 45 dec. of pitch in the controls
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Vartok wrote: »
    i would imagine they didnt handle that way in the shows because its hard to get a model on wires... to say do a loop for example. And im not even really asking for a complete inversion like that... id be happy with an extra 45 dec. of pitch in the controls

    Models haven't been used for years. The devs have already stated they are looking into increasing the angles, without affecting the canon feel.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dryan wrote:
    Because its not canon for Star Trek ships to do handle in such a way.

    But it is. STII: The Wrath of Khan, it was the deciding factor in the final battle. Also, in a few DS9 episodes Defiant does the loopings and barrel rolls around and between enemy ships.

    It's a good suggestion, it would add another dimension in a fight and create new tactical opportunities. However I understand the difficulties and challenges it creates in front of the designing team at Cryptic. Let's be rational and first ask for at least increased pitch angle, from 45 or whatever it is now, to smth like 60-70 degrees.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    First of all, I think the idea that range be increased and accuracy dropped is a good one.

    Second, if they're really going to ***** about "non-canon" TRIBBLE, which is a joke coming from this game, then they should make loops, high angles, etc., a special ability. After all, that stuff IS done on the shows, which I know those of you who actually pay attention remember, but I will admit it is done rarely and only when especially needed. As such, I don't see why it can't be included as a skill.

    This will make people like me, who think that any sort of flight restriction in space is bull, and those who want everything to feel like WWII naval combat, happy, at least somewhat, or maybe a bit less angry at least.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Animaezing wrote:
    ...
    Second, if they're really going to ***** about "non-canon" TRIBBLE, which is a joke coming from this game, then they should make loops, high angles, etc., a special ability. After all, that stuff IS done on the shows, which I know those of you who actually pay attention remember, but I will admit it is done rarely and only when especially needed. As such, I don't see why it can't be included as a skill.
    ...

    Good idea. For example, they could be enabled and performed only while Evasive Maneuvers or Attack Patterns are active.

    Additionally, I think that Evasive Maneuvers should have innate, non-speed dependant defense bonus. After all, what we know from shows, it doesn't just enable the ship to fly faster, it makes it harder to hit because all the veering and turning a ship makes. Since this is not a flight sim and we don't fly small fighter but a massive spaceships, we shouldn't be required to manually steer the ship left-right (which, by the way, does absolutely nothing to make it harder to hit, even if we do it manually via keyboard or a mouse), instead it should be relativised to this special ability.

    As it is currently, Evasive Maneuvers are useful only for turning tail and escaping a hairy situation or for better positioning of firing arcs. It's downright wrong. Evasive Maneuvers reroute additional power to engines and thrusters - which is correctly represented in the game. However, in the shows it also enables ships to "dodge" enemy weapons and even torpedoes in some cases, while still staying in fight and shooting back. Not escaping. This is NOT represented ingame, however if they add innate defensive bonus, it will do just that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dryan wrote:
    Models haven't been used for years. The devs have already stated they are looking into increasing the angles, without affecting the canon feel.

    Not good enough in my opinion older Star Trek games did and we are in 2010 now its really down to 2D play field or full3D not some half 2D-3D play...go the 9 yields or not at all.

    Really when playing and the attack just makes you fly up and up then you destroy them and you got to get back in to range below you its like round and round down the drain pipe to get back. Even if they did 90 dec I still feel its not going all the way.

    The problem is the players ship is whats doing the turning and moving the map stays where it is so really the best way to do full 360 is for the map to move...believe me when you get you head round it you get how that could work but at the same time have it look like your moving through space so what really happens is that the ship does move on screen but what really moves is space around you.

    You might think thats not the way to do it because really the ship moves through space but are screens are 2D which makes that hard to do in a way that feels right.
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