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Hey, Atari! Why not try this...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Instead of letting your marketing department continue to come up with promotional endeavors that only manage to divide STO's existing community, Why not give Cryptic at least 25% more funding, let them hire on a few more developers, and just let them do their job? Every good thing Cryptic manages to do is constantly being undermined by marketing.

All that needs to be done with this game is two things:

1 - Fix the bugs
2 - Add content

And when the bugs get fixed and content gets added, they just need to do one thing:

1 - Keep adding content.

If this formula is followed, STO will practically sell itself.

Just give it a shot. What can it hurt?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The marketing team is doing some ok work.

    The Khan uniform code with the DVD.
    The Mirror Universe uniform with Champions Online lifetime sub.
    The free TOS uniforms with the Beckett magazine.
    The shuttle with Del Taco tacos.

    Ads on syfy.

    Zachary Quinto autographed box.

    The various special items from where and what kind of version you bought.

    I think the assessment of the marketing department is a tad unfair. Let them do their jobs. Let the devs do their jobs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    The marketing team is doing some ok work.

    The Khan uniform code with the DVD.
    The Mirror Universe uniform with Champions Online lifetime sub.
    The free TOS uniforms with the Beckett magazine.
    The shuttle with Del Taco tacos.

    Ads on syfy.

    Zachary Quinto autographed box.

    The various special items from where and what kind of version you bought.

    I think the assessment of the marketing department is a tad unfair. Let them do their jobs. Let the devs do their jobs.

    That sort of thing is fine... It's promotional stuff that comes with box sales. Every MMO company that I know of does that.

    It's the things they've tried to pull since launch to try to drum up more support for the game.

    The problem is that they are doing promotions that would be fine for a non-MMO. Because until the acquired Cryptic, non-MMOs are all they've known. Whomever is making decisions in marketing does not seem ton understand MMOs or the communities that keep them alive. The rules for an MMO are way different than for a regular game.

    Regular games also are on a short-term profit mechanic. MMOs need to be focused on long-term profit mechanics. It doesn't matter how big you grow. If you can't retain members, something is wrong. And like it or not, STO is not retaining members.

    Marketing decisions like the RAF might be a good idea on paper, and if this wasn't an MMO, it would be fine. But look what it is doing to the community. For an MMO not even 4-months old yet, it looks like an act of desparation, making it obvious even to casual observers that STO is not working out as well is it by all rights should.

    Reigning them in and letting Cryptic fix what is broken and add what is missing will help this game out tremendously.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    The free TOS uniforms with the Beckett magazine.

    Alienating everybody who bought the DDE version was a good idea?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The RaF is marketing idiocy that goes far beyond the player advisory council, in my not-so-humble opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with most of that. They should focus more on fixing things to keep the people they have playing, rather than trying to just get new people to play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Alienating everybody who bought the DDE version was a good idea?

    I didn't feel alienated. As far as I am aware, it was only the shirt. Not the shirt and skirts. Even if it was it wouldn't have bothered me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I didn't feel alienated. As far as I am aware, it was only the shirt. Not the shirt and skirts. Even if it was it wouldn't have bothered me.

    It's the full uniform.
    And it bothers me, because a bonus I paid for is being given out for free, with no equivalent for the TNG uniform for instance.

    Wouldn't have bothered me were it a c-store item, or in-game earned. But free?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's the full uniform.
    And it bothers me, because a bonus I paid for is being given out for free, with no equivalent for the TNG uniform for instance.

    Wouldn't have bothered me were it a c-store item, or in-game earned. But free?

    I can understand why it might bother you, all I am saying is that it doesn't bother me. I may not agree with you but I will defend your right to say it. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I can understand why it might bother you, all I am saying is that it doesn't bother me. I may not agree with you but I will defend your right to say it. :)

    Please guys. Let's not degrade this thread into something argumentative. I mean no disrespect to anyone by posting it.

    As to the issue of perk items not available to some groups, I'm sure that a compromise can be reached. Like maybe offering a choice of any one exclusive item that you don't already have by upgrading your subscription. Pay for a 3-month subscription next cycle, and you get the reward. If you don't downgrade, you get another one. I wouldn't start doing that until at least a year after the perk reward was first introduced. For stuff related to the LT accounts, 20 months ought to be fair. by then, a regular subscriber will have spent $300 in subscription fees.

    There are ways to make things fair and still upsell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The Khan uniform code with the DVD - And a universal code at that. Fine and dandy but probably a decision that was made prior to Atari influence.

    The Mirror Universe uniform with Champions Online lifetime sub - This was a promotion that was made long before the takeover by Atari and it's marketing team.

    The free TOS uniforms with the Beckett magazine - After already having given them as perks for a Special Edition version of the game that made many many players angry, some of which even quit playing the game over it. That's not good marketing, IMO. Sacrificing current players in order to get new subscribers does not make for good PR.

    The shuttle with Del Taco tacos - Fine and dandy but also probably a decision that was made previous to the Atari takeover.

    Ads on syfy
    - Fine and dandy but also probably a decision that was made pre-Atari.

    Zachary Quinto autographed box - Fine and dandy.

    The various special items from where and what kind of version you bought - Standard for any MMO and also done before Atari was in charge of marketing.


    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    The marketing team is doing some ok work.

    The Khan uniform code with the DVD.
    The Mirror Universe uniform with Champions Online lifetime sub.
    The free TOS uniforms with the Beckett magazine.
    The shuttle with Del Taco tacos.

    Ads on syfy.

    Zachary Quinto autographed box.

    The various special items from where and what kind of version you bought.

    I think the assessment of the marketing department is a tad unfair. Let them do their jobs. Let the devs do their jobs.

    And you just described what marketing should be doing.

    What they should not be doing are things like:

    Halfpricegate (the first great "Friday afternoon bombing run" by marketing)

    Advisorycouncilgate (Let's name a council. Before we actually SPEAK with any of the people who are going to be on it)

    fleecegate (The Galaxy X $200 fleece)

    Frankly the marketing department of Cryptic, to borrow from Douglas Adams, have performed like a "bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes".

    IE: the marketing department of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. Look it up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Instead of letting your marketing department continue to come up with promotional endeavors that only manage to divide STO's existing community, Why not give Cryptic at least 25% more funding, let them hire on a few more developers, and just let them do their job? Every good thing Cryptic manages to do is constantly being undermined by marketing.

    All that needs to be done with this game is two things:

    1 - Fix the bugs
    2 - Add content

    And when the bugs get fixed and content gets added, they just need to do one thing:

    1 - Keep adding content.

    If this formula is followed, STO will practically sell itself.

    Just give it a shot. What can it hurt?

    I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like you have any business experience. I'm not trying to be rude, just my opinion. You CANNOT get rid of marketing, it is impossible. Even established businesses such as McDonalds, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. have marketing and they don't need it.

    Further, marketing has no bearing on the amount of development work that is getting done. They are two separate divisions working on two separate things at the same time. This means that the bug fixes and content are getting done, but they take time. You need patience. If you have had any experience with writing programs you would understand it takes time and cannot be done over night. Now add 3D graphics and that time increases. Patience grasshopper.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I am moving this thread to the General Community Feedback section. Good work keeping it constructive. My only request is to try make your title have a summary of what your feedback is about. An example title for a thread like this could be "Feedback: Please prioritize new content and fixes over promotions" :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    They probably have people working on both. The game may engine may only allow a certain number of developers working on content at one time. That means other developers can work on extras.

    This is just a WAG.

    But STO may have enough LTS's to keep things going until the content side of things improve.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    attilio wrote: »
    I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like you have any business experience. I'm not trying to be rude, just my opinion. You CANNOT get rid of marketing, it is impossible. Even established businesses such as McDonalds, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. have marketing and they don't need it.

    I didn't suggest that Atari should get rid of marketing. I suggested that they stop letting marketing continue to rollm out promotions that inadvertantly undermine the progress Cryptic is making, due to their cotravercial nature.

    Marketing is necessary. But there are ways to drum up support and visibility for the game that do not cause a rift in a community that is already torn assunder on many other issues.
    Further, marketing has no bearing on the amount of development work that is getting done.

    I didn't say that it did. I said that Cryptic's progress is undermined by marketing's misguided endeavors. Undermined as in just when people start to see that Cryptic is trying to make things work, announcements come down from cryptic about what marketing is doing. Because a cryptic person announces it, to those who do not understand that Cryptic Development and Atari Marketing are two different entities start balstinc Cryptic on a whole new issue. One that is out of their hands. The community ends up in chaos, and Cryptic has to spend more time trying to smooth it over rather than talking about what's coming.
    You need patience. If you have had any experience with writing programs you would understand it takes time and cannot be done over night. Now add 3D graphics and that time increases. Patience grasshopper.

    I am being patient. I'm on Cryptic's side here. In fact, I want them to slow down and pace themselves a little more. They are trying to churn out too many things too fast, and glaring bugs are being missed.

    Now dstahl told me yesterday that the way they are set up, they have content groups that are responsible for a content project, and for fixing any bugs associated with it. Well, they need to take their time, get it before deploying it, so they can move right into their next task.

    I've got a better grasp on this than you may think I do.

    marketing needs to do promotions that do not stir up a hornet's nest. If they will just do that, more attention in the community will be on what Cryptic is doing. And there would be fewer multi-threaded ragefests going on.

    Anything else you need me to clarify?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's the full uniform.
    And it bothers me, because a bonus I paid for is being given out for free, with no equivalent for the TNG uniform for instance.

    Wouldn't have bothered me were it a c-store item, or in-game earned. But free?

    They had to buy the game and (presumably) a magazine. That should cover most of the distance between Standard and DDE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's the full uniform.
    And it bothers me, because a bonus I paid for is being given out for free, with no equivalent for the TNG uniform for instance.

    Wouldn't have bothered me were it a c-store item, or in-game earned. But free?

    It wasn't free. The magazine cost me around $5. Mwahahahah!

    /tries to duck incoming infraction


    I don't see any problem with marketing the game. Atari is it's own entity, and apparently that's what they do. Cryptic is the developer. It seems like a lot of people are concerned with the free weekend, RaF, etc. I say "Great! Let's get all the people in here we can!"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I didn't suggest that Atari should get rid of marketing. I suggested that they stop letting marketing continue to rollm out promotions that inadvertantly undermine the progress Cryptic is making, due to their cotravercial nature.

    Marketing is necessary. But there are ways to drum up support and visibility for the game that do not cause a rift in a community that is already torn assunder on many other issues.

    What you said in your OP was "Instead of letting your marketing department continue to come up with promotional endeavors that only manage to divide STO's existing community, Why not give Cryptic at least 25% more funding, let them hire on a few more developers"

    To me that sounds like, "don't do one, do the other". Don't let marketing come up with promotions, give Cryptic funding. That is how it sounds to me. Part of marketing is the promotions. Maybe some of the promotions aren't perfect but they are doing their job. However promotions not being to everyone's liking is different then what you are saying.

    I didn't say that it did. I said that Cryptic's progress is undermined by marketing's misguided endeavors. Undermined as in just when people start to see that Cryptic is trying to make things work, announcements come down from cryptic about what marketing is doing. Because a cryptic person announces it, to those who do not understand that Cryptic Development and Atari Marketing are two different entities start balstinc Cryptic on a whole new issue. One that is out of their hands. The community ends up in chaos, and Cryptic has to spend more time trying to smooth it over rather than talking about what's coming.

    No argument here. It does seem that as things calm down something is announced to get people angry/annoyed. However, again the way your OP sounds to me is that you want only bugs to be fixed and content to be added, nothing more and nothing less. Frankly I don't feel that is the correct approach.
    I am being patient. I'm on Cryptic's side here. In fact, I want them to slow down and pace themselves a little more. They are trying to churn out too many things too fast, and glaring bugs are being missed.

    I have to be honest, I haven't come across many bugs recently. The only recurring bug I have come across is when using a sniper weapon the animation sometimes get stuck, but I've reported it every single time. However part of the bug problem can be solved if more people use Tribble. Sure you can say that we shouldn't do Cryptic's work for them, but that's not true. They cannot figure out ever single thing that every single player is going to do, and that is where the problem comes in. Not only with this game, but with all software. People do crazy things when using software and then some unexpected bug pops up.
    Now dstahl told me yesterday that the way they are set up, they have content groups that are responsible for a content project, and for fixing any bugs associated with it. Well, they need to take their time, get it before deploying it, so they can move right into their next task.

    I've got a better grasp on this than you may think I do.

    If you have a better grasp on this than I think, then good for you, and I am genuinely happy about that. We need more people in this community who understand what is going on behind the scenes.
    marketing needs to do promotions that do not stir up a hornet's nest. If they will just do that, more attention in the community will be on what Cryptic is doing. And there would be fewer multi-threaded ragefests going on.

    No argument here, however in my opinion that's something to bring up with Atarai. Sure Cryptic can suggest it but it would probably have a bigger impact if the players go directly to Atarai.
    Anything else you need me to clarify?
    Nope, unless you want to comment on anything I just said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Alienating everybody who bought the DDE version was a good idea?

    I bought the DDE version. It did not alienate me at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Honestly the only reason I bought DDE was for Joined Trill... well... also cause I buy all my games on Steam now a days...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    The Khan uniform code with the DVD - And a universal code at that. Fine and dandy but probably a decision that was made prior to Atari influence.

    ? Prior to Atari influence? That makes no sense and has no bearing either way. It was a marketing decision.
    The Mirror Universe uniform with Champions Online lifetime sub - This was a promotion that was made long before the takeover by Atari and it's marketing team.

    ?

    What?

    Champions Online ... just ... I'm stumped here. Do you know what the promotion I'm referring to is?

    People who play Cryptic's OTHER game, Champions Online ... if they bought a lifetime sub to THAT game ... they got the Mirror Universe uniforms for THIS game.

    Cryptic's OTHER game.
    The free TOS uniforms with the Beckett magazine - After already having given them as perks for a Special Edition version of the game that made many many players angry, some of which even quit playing the game over it. That's not good marketing, IMO. Sacrificing current players in order to get new subscribers does not make for good PR.

    Numbers favor them. The decision brought more players into the fold than it lost.
    The shuttle with Del Taco tacos - Fine and dandy but also probably a decision that was made previous to the Atari takeover.

    Ads on syfy
    - Fine and dandy but also probably a decision that was made pre-Atari.

    There seems to be a huge disconnect here. Do you not understand that Cryptic is a division of Atari? And has been the entire time it's developed this game?
    Zachary Quinto autographed box - Fine and dandy.

    The various special items from where and what kind of version you bought - Standard for any MMO and also done before Atari was in charge of marketing.

    :cool:

    Yeah, you definitely do not really understand the relationship between Cryptic and Atari ... or how this game was developed. Cryptic IS Atari. Atari's always been in charge of this game.

    BEFORE Atari was involved? That's Perpetual. That game never existed. Never got past a few pieces of concept art and a website.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Except that you don't need to even buy the Magazine anymore, you can get the code if you sign up on the magazine's website (for free)!
    http://www.massiveonlinegamer.com/game-code
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wildcat84 wrote: »
    And you just described what marketing should be doing.

    What they should not be doing are things like:

    Halfpricegate (the first great "Friday afternoon bombing run" by marketing)

    Advisorycouncilgate (Let's name a council. Before we actually SPEAK with any of the people who are going to be on it)

    fleecegate (The Galaxy X $200 fleece)

    Frankly the marketing department of Cryptic, to borrow from Douglas Adams, have performed like a "bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes".

    IE: the marketing department of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. Look it up.
    I think what really bothered me the most was Gategate - whoever decided that we should compare everything to Watergate to make fairly trivial situations (especially those on video games) look like travesties of the highest caliber.

    I disagree that the above situations were travesties to the game's populace. On the contrary; they seem grossly put out of proportion.

    Putting the game at half price for a very limited time to draw in more customers and offering extra complimentary sub time? That seems very reasonable. Granted, perhaps they should have waited a little longer to do it (depending on one's PoV), but there's nothing wrong with limited time offers (see: preorder lifetime subs). Promos create buzz. The only thing I can fault was perhaps the timing, so close after launch.

    Getting people in established Star Trek communities to offer feedback about the game? Again, nothing wrong with that, especially if it's not the only source for feedback. Seems like Star Trek fans who are versed in lore and canon would be great sources for feedback.

    Putting the Galaxy X as a "carrot on a stick" to help get more players into the game? That's working beautifully. Look at how many people want it, despite threads months ago claiming that three nacel ships looked ugly. What you call fleecing to me is Marketing hitting the nail on the head. I bet a lot of people are going to try extra hard to get some invites out (or try to exploit the system by creating disposable alt accounts or such just for a month or two). Either way, the game gets more funds.

    Granted, things could be much worse. At least special items aren't tied to a collectible card game (WoW). In my personal opinion, that's more of a fleece than what we're talking about with the above.

    Am I a fanboy or a dev apologist? Not really. I've been through plenty of games and seen plenty of marketing hijinks. I just feel that the past few situations were grossly overblown by small but (extremely) noise minorities of the game population, which I don't think engenders the rest of the player population very well.

    Just my 2 ECs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Yeah, you definitely do not really understand the relationship between Cryptic and Atari ... or how this game was developed. Cryptic IS Atari. Atari's always been in charge of this game.

    BEFORE Atari was involved? That's Perpetual. That game never existed. Never got past a few pieces of concept art and a website.

    No, I think perhaps you do not understand.

    Cryptic had fully developed and released Champions Online before the deal with Atari was made. They had also done the majority of the work developing this game before that merger. They were an independent company then. Most of the decisions made for marketing prior to the release of this game had already been done before Atari came in.

    I was at the Meet & Greet at the ST convention in Las Vegas months before release. I still have the fliers and a sign from that event. Neither of them have the Atari logos on them. What does that tell you?

    Cryptic is a subsidiary of Atari now, but they were not always part of that company and they were not part of Atari when this game was initially developed.


    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Whilst it is true that everyone at Cryptic ultimately works for and answers to Atari SA. It's not Atari Inc. doing the marketing. Cryptic have their own marketing department lead ( I think ) by Joe Blancato and voiced by (if he's still there ) Ivan Sulic.

    Cryptic have their own team making their own mistakes and they've been given the budget that they asked for when they were taken over.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    No, I think perhaps you do not understand.

    Cryptic had fully developed and released Champions Online before the deal with Atari was made.

    No, they hadn't. They had been working on a Marvel Universe game. They have been a part of Atari the entire time they were making this particular video game.
    They had also done the majority of the work developing this game before that merger.

    No, they hadn't. They had worked on their engine. The basic structure of what this and Champions is. Because it was the work they did for Marvel.

    The Star Trek of Star Trek Online was developed after Champions. And they were a part of Atari the entire time.
    I was at the Meet & Greet at the ST convention in Las Vegas months before release. I still have the fliers and a sign from that event. Neither of them have the Atari logos on them. What does that tell you?

    That doesn't tell me or you anything.
    Cryptic is a subsidiary of Atari now, but they were not always part of that company and they were not part of Atari when this game was initially developed.

    :cool:

    The entire time they were making Star Trek Online, they were a part of Atari.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    attilio wrote: »
    I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like you have any business experience. I'm not trying to be rude, just my opinion. You CANNOT get rid of marketing, it is impossible. Even established businesses such as McDonalds, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. have marketing and they don't need it.

    Further, marketing has no bearing on the amount of development work that is getting done. They are two separate divisions working on two separate things at the same time. This means that the bug fixes and content are getting done, but they take time. You need patience. If you have had any experience with writing programs you would understand it takes time and cannot be done over night. Now add 3D graphics and that time increases. Patience grasshopper.

    Of course there needs to be marketing but the marketing people need to look at this game from a long - term perspective and not so short sighted as they have been. THey need to RETAIN CUSTOMERS and bring in new Customers. an MMO survives by RETAINING CUSTOMERS. Everything the marketing company does is just try to add stuff to get new subscribers...we need the things that are ****ing all of the customers currently playing to get fixed otherwise STO will have no foundation to sit on. The foundation is crumbling as we speak.

    1.) FIX BUG and INSTANCE ISSUES.(IF THE DEVS ACTUALLY READ THE FORUMS THEY WOULD KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THESE ISSUES ARE)

    2.) MORE CONTENT

    3.) ADD PERKS FOR NEW SUBSCRIBERS

    That is the order things should be worked on.
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