Am I the only one who sees PVP in this game is just a time sink?
The gameplay is lousy. My science ship has been killed in less than 2 seconds by a single enemy. If the fights actually felt like fights (shooting, maeuvering, actual strategy) instead of "bang you're dead", maybe this would be interesting, but they don't. It's just a bunch of guys all target one person and pound on the space bar a couple times.
The maps are repetative. Everyone seems to play "Salvage Opertaion" or "Cracked Planetoid". They may be fun the first couple dozen times, but after you've played the exact same map a hundred times it gets pretty repetative.
It's worth playing three/day to get the Marks of ____ (can't remember off the top of my head) to trade for purple gear, but that's in. Yes, you get some badges, typically 20-30 per match. For the time invested, exploration missions will get you blue/green gear faster, especially if you consider que times outside of prime time. The merits, credits, and BO skill points are nice, but it's not worth the time investment for any of those.
So, typically I'll play my 3/day daily PVP mission, and that's it. I play them as fast as I can. Get it over with and move on. If my side is winning, I'll actually play, otherwise I run windowed mode and check my email, watch hulu.com, or type forum posts like this. It's currently 203 Federation vs 1193 Klingon. Two more of these and I can buy that new beam array...
EDIT: A few ideas:
1. More maps, more mission types. There are plenty of variations on "capture the flag" that could be used to add some variety.
2. Maybe add some kind of damage/defense multiplier to PvP to increase durability.
3. Change the rewards so there's a benefit to winning. At the moment, the motivation is to sit in the map, not to actually fight. Give me a reason to want to win.
Well, Id hate to be on your team. But in all seriousness, Id have to disagree. Just a personal thing I guess, but I love PvP. Getting to BG5 you have to lol.
From either side its far more challanging than anything PvE. Yes the maps are the same, and they do get boring. But the people you play against are rarly the same. And when they are, I think thats even better. Nothing like already knowing your opponent.
I guess if you dont like the space aspect of the game, than you wouldnt like PvP at all. But if that were true, than you wouldnt like the game at all, would you?
And yeah everyone can die in 2 seconds, if youre quicker than the other guy youll make it. I could take a BoP and 2 battle crusiers in my Golf ball, Havent tryed anything with the galaxy yet.
I agree that they have gotten repetitive and i do not enjoy PvP as much as i did when i started. they just need more map and some open PvP zones.
As far as you giving up. you should never give up on your team. a team can rally and come back. i have been on some of thous teams. never give up; never surrender.
Well, Id hate to be on your team. But in all seriousness, Id have to disagree. Just a personal thing I guess, but I love PvP. Getting to BG5 you have to lol.
From either side its far more challanging than anything PvE. Yes the maps are the same, and they do get boring. But the people you play against are rarly the same. And when they are, I think thats even better. Nothing like already knowing your opponent.
I guess if you dont like the space aspect of the game, than you wouldnt like PvP at all. But if that were true, than you wouldnt like the game at all, would you?
And yeah everyone can die in 2 seconds, if youre quicker than the other guy youll make it. I could take a BoP and 2 battle crusiers in my Golf ball, Havent tryed anything with the galaxy yet.
In most games, I like PVP. I liked PVP back in Ultima Online. I used to run around "overt" all the time in Star Wars Galaxies and was on a guild that raided rebel bases. I used to really enjoy the huge scale PvP in Dark Age of Camelot, and the fact that you could level up entirely off PvP in Warhammer Online made it one of the most fun MMO's I've played.
PvP in STO just lacking.
So far, the space aspect of this game is the best part. The ground game sucks; it feels like something two developers put together out of old code on their lunch breaks.
Shoot, I need to stop typing. Current score is 337 fed vs 1044 kingongon, and just capped a base. Got to stop making this take longer than it has too...
I sense a hint of a WoW /Afk'r? My feelings on this are quite simple, if you want the rewards, earn them. Your team relies on you to pull your weight, or in the case of terribad players, be an alternate target. Mooching off of the efforts of others is wrong and irresponsible. Do you do this in real life? How would you feel if someone did this to you? Do you believe in entitlements?
P.s. This is why I love Open PvP, rewards fit your success and failing rewards nothing.
Personally I have very little interest in PvP for the sake of PvP. I do it for the Marks of Honor and while I quite like it I don't like it enough to bother doing extra. That being said I would love to see it changed so that when a game starts it picks a random map from a selection rather than always going to the same one.
Personally i have just barely gotten into pvp... I tried it at RA5 and hated it but I am leveling a cruiser right now as an engineer and I will be danged if most teams can even kill me in space! I have had whole teams going to town on me and not even get my shields down... I am loving pvp right now... I think once RA5 hits klinks have a better advantage IMO but thats ok... its all they got so let em have an advantage. PvP in this game if you get witha good team is uber fun.. more so than anything PvE has to offer!
Personally I have very little interest in PvP for the sake of PvP. I do it for the Marks of Honor and while I quite like it I don't like it enough to bother doing extra. That being said I would love to see it changed so that when a game starts it picks a random map from a selection rather than always going to the same one.
Sounds like a marvelous idea, certainly has my vote.
Actually, I really do like the space PvP. Doing it to get items is nice but I do a few matches every day regardless of reward, it is just plain fun.
The ground PvP is pretty lame. WAY too many hold effects.
My only gripe about space PvP is the damage is way too high across the board. No player should be able to kill another player in under 5 seconds in this game. Sure, in an FPS *HEADSHOT* but not in star trek. You blow up the NPC "mooks" in 5 sec but a heroic player captain? I want the feel of the movies, shields are down, taking a pounding, everything is blowing up, consoles exploding fires etc and I still have enough time to give my wondrous monologue before activating the genesis device. THAT is star trek space combat not press my 3 or 4 buffs spam space bar for 4 seconds and watch those hard earned players in front of me die.
Ayupan please man just stop typing. The things you say are ridiculous to any player that actually plays this game frequently. Why don't you come up against anyone in my Fleet and we shall see how long you "Shield Tank", what a joke. Now that is funny.
I sense a hint of a WoW /Afk'r? My feelings on this are quite simple, if you want the rewards, earn them. Your team relies on you to pull your weight, or in the case of terribad players, be an alternate target. Mooching off of the efforts of others is wrong and irresponsible. Do you do this in real life? How would you feel if someone did this to you? Do you believe in entitlements?
P.s. This is why I love Open PvP, rewards fit your success and failing rewards nothing.
I was never AFK on a wow battleground longer than it took to run to the bathroom and back during a 10-hour AV BG.
As for "earning it" in the PVP battlegrounds of STO, you earn more by loosing two games than by winning one. If I recall correctly, you get 30 marks for winning, 23 for loosing. If you're teams down on points, better to just let the wookie win (wait...wrong franchise...) than drag it out as long as possible.
As for that "real life", TRIBBLE you. Sorry, but I work my TRIBBLE off and pay more than 50% taxes to cover welfare leeches. In real life, at least for most of us, the harder you work, the better the rewards. In STO PvP, that's not true. These forums are dedicated to a game, let's try to keep it that way.
EDIT: By the way, if responding to a personal attack is considered a bannable offense, I'm not going to miss this game, or most of the people who play it.
Maybe the PvP hasnt gotten old for me because I havent played other mmos, so this is all I know. Maybe try a Klingon if you havent, as funny as that might sound lol.
Actually, the OP has a point, PvP is boring once you have all the sweet stuff and that can be achieved pretty fast. Ofcourse just sitting in a PvP map waiting till the match ends is not good, leave STO then. For me it is also getting boring, seeing more and more fleet people leave, it is getting empty and the point of doing 3 dailies every day is nothing once you have all the purple stuff.
I do agree with the OP and with Vontrox, to a degree. It doesn't take long to earn all your purple gear from doing dailies, and if that's a player's only motivation to PvP, I advise you to stop before you even start. The only reason I can come up with for earning all purple gear is to give you that extra edge in PvP. PvE is pretty simple anyway, so you don't need the "best" gear to get the job done.
That said, I can see how PvP in STO can get boring. I can also see how it can be incredibly fun and challenging at times. I definitely think we need more maps and game types (maybe something like a "starbase defense" map where you try to take out the other team's base, etc.) to keep things interesting. Also, I think it's a must that Cryptic allows for teams larger than five. Seriously, even with the existing maps and game mechanics, how fun would it be to run a 15v15 arena match where you could easily keep track of your team's players and plan out large-scale strategy? The problem with that idea is that the queues are slow enough as it is. Imagine queuing for a 15v15...
I guess my final opinion is that PvP in STO has a lot of potential, but it doesn't seem like the devs are concentrating on building it up right now (at least, not that I can tell). I still enjoy space PvP, but I'm not in it for the rewards. I just like testing myself against other players; seeing how it turns out. It's kind of the same with games like chess: the board stays the same, you can only move your pieces so many ways, but the strategy and the unique flavors that different players bring to the game is the payoff.
The gameplay is lousy. My science ship has been killed in less than 2 seconds by a single enemy. If the fights actually felt like fights (shooting, maeuvering, actual strategy) instead of "bang you're dead", maybe this would be interesting, but they don't. It's just a bunch of guys all target one person and pound on the space bar a couple times.
.
I agree it gets old quick doing the same thing over and over, not to mention the que waiting times, but wolf-packing a single target is a vaild tactic in pvp and hardly falls in the "unfair" category. It sucks to recieve, but is not unfair.
EM is your friend in such a situation. I played in one match where a single science ship tied up 5 BoP's just by circling close to an asteroid for cover and boosting his shields all the time. We became so intent on his demise that we failed to realize how effectively he was subverting our attaempts using cover.
EM is your friend in such a situation. I played in one match where a single science ship tied up 5 BoP's just by circling close to an asteroid for cover and boosting his shields all the time. We became so intent on his demise that we failed to realize how effectively he was subverting our attaempts using cover.
So true, i wish there was a PvP map where you can really use the enviroment as a tactic...But...Space is wide open
Playing PvP for marks or whatever makes no sense to me; you play it because you enjoy it. It may require some effort to get past the frustration factor, which is normal - I burned through a lot of ships in EVE when I started playing.
And any PvP, beyond dueling, in any game, always involves focusing on a single player. That's where teamwork comes in.
The only thing I dislike (strongly) in STO PvP is the wacky queue system, which is frankly terrible.
The whole game could be called pointless,
the point is to have fun, if you are not having fun then you should do somethings else.
The game will change with time but no matter what happens it will never have a point, its a game.
Now that I have over 7000 badges, 80K merit, and too many million credits to spend....
I am starting to wonder what the point is too. There is no reward to work with at end game.
An Open PvP system with rewards for victory and nothing for losers would be nice.
When I finally finished my blackwing lair armor set, and noticed how much gold I had in my bank, how much puprle I had on my toon, and how flush and easily twinked my alts were, I felt the same way.
Then AQ40 opened.
But we finished that.
Then Naxx opened.
But by then I was too bored to care.
I hear that game is the gold standard for end-game in this genre though?
I didn't see it that way. I was in a guild that would conquer their content with ease. So boring.
PvPing is fun...how PvP is implemented in STO is a yawn.
What we need is purposeful PvP that isnta queued "play date" and is inseated an open, faction based, PvP for territoy control. Not game wide open PvP, but open PvP within combat sectors of space.
That way we fight for a reason, we engage dynamically and without pre-defined, staged fights. All that is pre-defiend is the objectives and where they are...the when, the how and the who is totally open. Open also mean we are free to come and go as we deem fit and that there is little, to no numbers balancing, no tier restrictions, to time limits...basically, no "battles in a bottle" constrained by time, space or participants.
War and its battles need to be as fluid as possible. Out numbered or out matched means nothing if you can call in help for other faction players to arrive 5 mins later. Beat in Star System A, doesnt mean you cant fall back and gather up your resources to coming smashing back in to try and re-take it...or send those forces to Star System B and capture it instead.
Open means that all "open" combat systems be available for simultaneous entry. So while the Feds might be winning in Star System A, other KDF forces can be making head way in Star System B. Which also means the KDF might releave some of its forces in System B, to aid the beaten down KDF forces in System A.
Open PvP system doesn't necessarily even have to be every day, it could be once a week for example. A good system will be expensive, meaning I have to work during the week to help my fleet PvP in the big event.
PvPing is fun...how PvP is implemented in STO is a yawn.
What we need is purposeful PvP that isnta queued "play date" and is inseated an open, faction based, PvP for territoy control. Not game wide open PvP, but open PvP within combat sectors of space.
?
Combat Sectors of space? That is an instance. How is that different?
Agreed. As with other effective PvP systems we need leaderboards for individuals and fleets, open PvP or territorial PvP sectors, more variety of maps, more goal-based PvP scenario games (base defense/attack, headquarters, etc), occasional organized tournaments or ladder play, less "blanket" nerfing of classes/skills, and the like.
This would go a long way towards maintaining the current PvP community, attracting new members, encouraging fleet enrollment and cohesion, and making PvP an interesting and fun way to stay involved in STO while waiting for updates and new content.
This game really needs OPEN PvP ZONES. I think a large number of us want open PVP because it is content that changes every time you play it and gives us a greater goal(WAR).And frankly, i think it is the only way to keep player playing for more than a couple of months. i am surprised it has not been put on the schedule.
It is a topic we discuss a lot under PvP Gameplay.
Yes, it may take alot to develop but it is re-playable content; it changes with the players actions.
engineering report came out to day no mention of open PVP. And i do not believe we will see it for a long time.
soon PvE is going to be re-playable. fine but is it going to change. i do not think so. how many times can you play the same thing before it becomes boring.
This game really needs OPEN PvP ZONES. I think a large number of us want open PVP because it is content that changes every time you play it and gives us a greater goal(WAR).And frankly, i think it is the only way to keep player playing for more than a couple of months. i am surprised it has not been put on the schedule.
It is a topic we discuss a lot under PvP Gameplay.
Yes, it may take alot to develop but it is re-playable content; it changes with the players actions.
engineering report came out to day no mention of open PVP. And i do not believe we will see it for a long time.
soon PvE is going to be re-playable. fine but is it going to change. i do not think so. how many times can you play the same thing before it becomes boring.
If a game is fun you do not need rewards.
balance; balance will come with time.
This. Player driven content and gameplay is the only way to keep me interested at this point. While the current PvP system is player driven, I can accomplish the same thing with TF2. It's why I've been subbed to EVE for years and yet all other MMOs eventually lose my sub. Persistent, open PvP would be a godsend for this game. The geek OMFGSTARTREK!!!oneeleven1 factor is starting to wear off for me.
Comments
From either side its far more challanging than anything PvE. Yes the maps are the same, and they do get boring. But the people you play against are rarly the same. And when they are, I think thats even better. Nothing like already knowing your opponent.
I guess if you dont like the space aspect of the game, than you wouldnt like PvP at all. But if that were true, than you wouldnt like the game at all, would you?
And yeah everyone can die in 2 seconds, if youre quicker than the other guy youll make it. I could take a BoP and 2 battle crusiers in my Golf ball, Havent tryed anything with the galaxy yet.
As far as you giving up. you should never give up on your team. a team can rally and come back. i have been on some of thous teams. never give up; never surrender.
In most games, I like PVP. I liked PVP back in Ultima Online. I used to run around "overt" all the time in Star Wars Galaxies and was on a guild that raided rebel bases. I used to really enjoy the huge scale PvP in Dark Age of Camelot, and the fact that you could level up entirely off PvP in Warhammer Online made it one of the most fun MMO's I've played.
PvP in STO just lacking.
So far, the space aspect of this game is the best part. The ground game sucks; it feels like something two developers put together out of old code on their lunch breaks.
Shoot, I need to stop typing. Current score is 337 fed vs 1044 kingongon, and just capped a base. Got to stop making this take longer than it has too...
P.s. This is why I love Open PvP, rewards fit your success and failing rewards nothing.
Sounds like a marvelous idea, certainly has my vote.
The ground PvP is pretty lame. WAY too many hold effects.
My only gripe about space PvP is the damage is way too high across the board. No player should be able to kill another player in under 5 seconds in this game. Sure, in an FPS *HEADSHOT* but not in star trek. You blow up the NPC "mooks" in 5 sec but a heroic player captain? I want the feel of the movies, shields are down, taking a pounding, everything is blowing up, consoles exploding fires etc and I still have enough time to give my wondrous monologue before activating the genesis device. THAT is star trek space combat not press my 3 or 4 buffs spam space bar for 4 seconds and watch those hard earned players in front of me die.
You have the most overpowered ability by an exponential amount, and it has a short CD.
My sci can tank outperform my Tac/escort and my Eng/cruiser put TOGETHER.
What ability would that be? I'm a tactical captian in a science ship. I haven't found an "I WIN" button on my keyboard yet.
I was never AFK on a wow battleground longer than it took to run to the bathroom and back during a 10-hour AV BG.
As for "earning it" in the PVP battlegrounds of STO, you earn more by loosing two games than by winning one. If I recall correctly, you get 30 marks for winning, 23 for loosing. If you're teams down on points, better to just let the wookie win (wait...wrong franchise...) than drag it out as long as possible.
As for that "real life", TRIBBLE you. Sorry, but I work my TRIBBLE off and pay more than 50% taxes to cover welfare leeches. In real life, at least for most of us, the harder you work, the better the rewards. In STO PvP, that's not true. These forums are dedicated to a game, let's try to keep it that way.
EDIT: By the way, if responding to a personal attack is considered a bannable offense, I'm not going to miss this game, or most of the people who play it.
That is because it is innate to Science captains ONLY. I will give you a hint it is one of the "BIG 3", begins with an "S"
That said, I can see how PvP in STO can get boring. I can also see how it can be incredibly fun and challenging at times. I definitely think we need more maps and game types (maybe something like a "starbase defense" map where you try to take out the other team's base, etc.) to keep things interesting. Also, I think it's a must that Cryptic allows for teams larger than five. Seriously, even with the existing maps and game mechanics, how fun would it be to run a 15v15 arena match where you could easily keep track of your team's players and plan out large-scale strategy? The problem with that idea is that the queues are slow enough as it is. Imagine queuing for a 15v15...
I guess my final opinion is that PvP in STO has a lot of potential, but it doesn't seem like the devs are concentrating on building it up right now (at least, not that I can tell). I still enjoy space PvP, but I'm not in it for the rewards. I just like testing myself against other players; seeing how it turns out. It's kind of the same with games like chess: the board stays the same, you can only move your pieces so many ways, but the strategy and the unique flavors that different players bring to the game is the payoff.
I agree it gets old quick doing the same thing over and over, not to mention the que waiting times, but wolf-packing a single target is a vaild tactic in pvp and hardly falls in the "unfair" category. It sucks to recieve, but is not unfair.
EM is your friend in such a situation. I played in one match where a single science ship tied up 5 BoP's just by circling close to an asteroid for cover and boosting his shields all the time. We became so intent on his demise that we failed to realize how effectively he was subverting our attaempts using cover.
So true, i wish there was a PvP map where you can really use the enviroment as a tactic...But...Space is wide open
Ayupan.......NM not worth it.
And any PvP, beyond dueling, in any game, always involves focusing on a single player. That's where teamwork comes in.
The only thing I dislike (strongly) in STO PvP is the wacky queue system, which is frankly terrible.
you never give up do you?
I am starting to wonder what the point is too. There is no reward to work with at end game.
An Open PvP system with rewards for victory and nothing for losers would be nice.
the point is to have fun, if you are not having fun then you should do somethings else.
The game will change with time but no matter what happens it will never have a point, its a game.
When I finally finished my blackwing lair armor set, and noticed how much gold I had in my bank, how much puprle I had on my toon, and how flush and easily twinked my alts were, I felt the same way.
Then AQ40 opened.
But we finished that.
Then Naxx opened.
But by then I was too bored to care.
I hear that game is the gold standard for end-game in this genre though?
I didn't see it that way. I was in a guild that would conquer their content with ease. So boring.
What we need is purposeful PvP that isnta queued "play date" and is inseated an open, faction based, PvP for territoy control. Not game wide open PvP, but open PvP within combat sectors of space.
That way we fight for a reason, we engage dynamically and without pre-defined, staged fights. All that is pre-defiend is the objectives and where they are...the when, the how and the who is totally open. Open also mean we are free to come and go as we deem fit and that there is little, to no numbers balancing, no tier restrictions, to time limits...basically, no "battles in a bottle" constrained by time, space or participants.
War and its battles need to be as fluid as possible. Out numbered or out matched means nothing if you can call in help for other faction players to arrive 5 mins later. Beat in Star System A, doesnt mean you cant fall back and gather up your resources to coming smashing back in to try and re-take it...or send those forces to Star System B and capture it instead.
Open means that all "open" combat systems be available for simultaneous entry. So while the Feds might be winning in Star System A, other KDF forces can be making head way in Star System B. Which also means the KDF might releave some of its forces in System B, to aid the beaten down KDF forces in System A.
Keep me busy for PvP, and I'll be a happy PvPer.
?
Combat Sectors of space? That is an instance. How is that different?
Agreed. As with other effective PvP systems we need leaderboards for individuals and fleets, open PvP or territorial PvP sectors, more variety of maps, more goal-based PvP scenario games (base defense/attack, headquarters, etc), occasional organized tournaments or ladder play, less "blanket" nerfing of classes/skills, and the like.
This would go a long way towards maintaining the current PvP community, attracting new members, encouraging fleet enrollment and cohesion, and making PvP an interesting and fun way to stay involved in STO while waiting for updates and new content.
It is a topic we discuss a lot under PvP Gameplay.
Yes, it may take alot to develop but it is re-playable content; it changes with the players actions.
engineering report came out to day no mention of open PVP. And i do not believe we will see it for a long time.
soon PvE is going to be re-playable. fine but is it going to change. i do not think so. how many times can you play the same thing before it becomes boring.
If a game is fun you do not need rewards.
balance; balance will come with time.
This. Player driven content and gameplay is the only way to keep me interested at this point. While the current PvP system is player driven, I can accomplish the same thing with TF2. It's why I've been subbed to EVE for years and yet all other MMOs eventually lose my sub. Persistent, open PvP would be a godsend for this game. The geek OMFGSTARTREK!!!oneeleven1 factor is starting to wear off for me.