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Don't spread the playerbase out so thin

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:

I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

Changing it so it puts at least 45 people in a single instance before creating a new one would go a long way to improving the overall 'feel' of the game and improving socialisation.

It feels like Sol Station is empty, but there are actually 168 people there!
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:

    I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

    Changing it so it puts at least 45 people in a single instance before creating a new one would go a long way to improving the overall 'feel' of the game and improving socialisation.

    It feels like Sol Station is empty, but there are actually 168 people there!

    Agreed... Keep on top of it devs, reduce some of the instances.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:

    I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

    Changing it so it puts at least 45 people in a single instance before creating a new one would go a long way to improving the overall 'feel' of the game and improving socialisation.

    It feels like Sol Station is empty, but there are actually 168 people there!

    With zone chat linked ... I think Sol station isn't quite the best example. I might not see everyone (which is a good thing in terms of walking around and getting to a vendor or whatever), but chatting and socializing is definitely rampant.

    I think the point could be made more emphatically with ... DSE's ... Exploration clusters ... Fleet Actions ... and instancing of that nature. Space stations ... we're all there chatting it up anyways.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    With zone chat linked ... I think Sol station isn't quite the best example. I might not see everyone (which is a good thing in terms of walking around and getting to a vendor or whatever), but chatting and socializing is definitely rampant.

    I think the point could be made more emphatically with ... DSE's ... Exploration clusters ... Fleet Actions ... and instancing of that nature. Space stations ... we're all there chatting it up anyways.

    true, but the whole spreading out does apply to everywhere else like you said
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I usually see no more than 3 other players in a cluster. Exception B'Tran and KDF ones, but ALL others are empty. DSEs... barely get a team of 5 together, with some luck, there are 2 or 3 players. Fleet Actions... couldn't do one in days because no-one is there. I'm all for putting more players in instances, get rid of too strict rank restrictions (especially FAs). Space Stations... I don't really care, its just annoying when you want to meet with others and 2 of 3 have to change instances - while there is a total of 30 players around.

    Also... Warzones. Seriously. Ker'rat is bugged. Period. Every time I go in, the Borg ships park inside the nodes, can't be targeted, but can fire on players. The mission info does not state that you can also complete it in the non-bugged ground warzone, Otha. So once I'm tired of stuck cubes, I usually solo Otha as the last daily warzone. Solo, not because its so funny - because no-one is there. If at all, its 1 more player - and you can be almost sure its the alt of a KDF player, who knows from the KDF mission info that Otha counts for that quest. So while Ker'rat is bugged and overcrowded to rubberband hell, Otha is a dead planet.

    PLEASE change the mission from Makza to 'Go to a warzone by entering Ker'rat or Otha'!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    true, but the whole spreading out does apply to everywhere else like you said

    That's why I think you make a really good point. It's just when I'm at spacedock or whatever ... I'm not too worried about it because I can still interact with everyone in each of the spacedock instances.

    But yeah ... when I go out into the universe and there's like barely 2 other ships where i'm at ... that's bleak and lonely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    whilst i would like to see more people in fewer instances just to make the place look more lively, at the same time im not that bothered. you can still talk to each other and having people run/fly past you is only a cosmetic thing.
    perhaps its designed that way to reduce lag for people with slower speeds or computers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:
    I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

    Yeah instances is a sad thing.Just to much in this game. Players have been telling them all the time but no.
    A MMO shouldt feel like a singelplayer game.So wrong.
    ArievDhien wrote:

    Also... Warzones. Seriously. Ker'rat is bugged. Period. Every time I go in, the Borg ships park inside the nodes, can't be targeted, but can fire on players. The mission info does not state that you can also complete it in the non-bugged ground warzone, Otha. So once I'm tired of stuck cubes, I usually solo Otha as the last daily warzone. Solo, not because its so funny - because no-one is there. If at all, its 1 more player - and you can be almost sure its the alt of a KDF player, who knows from the KDF mission info that Otha counts for that quest. So while Ker'rat is bugged and overcrowded to rubberband hell, Otha is a dead planet.

    PLEASE change the mission from Makza to 'Go to a warzone by entering Ker'rat or Otha'!

    And another thing that they havent fixed. Ker'rat they should just delete.Everytime the Borg ships glitch is just to sad to watch.i guess its bad coding or somthing.

    http://xs.to/image-ADB1_4BE137CD.jpg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    /signed (at least for sector blocks).

    I can understand major social hubs and exploration sectors not wanting a lot of people (pathing issues in sol, other players taking every exploration mission before you can).

    However, sector blocks can be really lonely (even with zone chat).

    If Cryptic can bump up the number of people per instance - I'd greatly appreciate it. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    That's exactly the issue I'm talking about in your screenshot. The cubes move right into the nodes, can fire at you, you can't fire back and the only way to scan the node and get done with that crappy mission is to sacrifice a player who draws fire, and have someone else quickly scan and evade out of range. How fun.

    Otha is ground, I know many people dislike it, but its still better than a totally bugged, overcrowded space map. I would also be really grateful for alternative warzones; a new space one and a new ground one. They are the 2 only options for daily warzones, along with the returning mission 'fight in 15 warzones'. For a mission that you get so often, there should be more selection.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I just do not understand the current system, it makes no sense.
    It should be that rather than trying to balance out the instances the system should fill up one instance first and THEN creat a new one.
    Not take the entire population of one area and divide them equally.
    Plus i think each instance should be upped from 50 to say 100-200 players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I love Ker'rat. I don't know how to express my feeling if it was finally bug-free!
    Otha isn't bad.

    I think I love the concept of the war zones in general and wish to see more.

    Also: Yes to less instances, more players. I love it when the Sensor Contact Missions are full of people and you see dozens of ships engaging mutliple borg ships, for example.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with the instances argument. The system should be clever enough to create the right number of instances so that each instance has at least 30 (out of the possible 50) players in it.

    So if there were 70 players at Spacedock, for example, it should create two instances of 35 players each. That way, you wouldn't end up with 10 instances with 7 players, nor would you end up with one instance of 50 players, and another of 20.

    I think the aim should be that all instances have as many players in as possible first and foremost (which includes reducing the number of instances) and secondly, making sure that no one instance is left with only 5 players, for example, whereas others are all maxed out.

    I can see plenty of technical challenges with actually making that happen though. I mean, what if you have one instance of 49 players, then two more come along? Does it put one player in the first instance (to make 50 players) and the second player in a new instance all by themselves? Or does it create another instance, and transfer half the players from the first to the second, to balance things out (which would be really annoying)?

    I agree there should be less instances, but it's probably far harder to implement than you might think.

    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wrote:
    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:

    I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

    Changing it so it puts at least 45 people in a single instance before creating a new one would go a long way to improving the overall 'feel' of the game and improving socialisation.

    It feels like Sol Station is empty, but there are actually 168 people there!
    It doesn't bother me. I really don't want to see over 15-20 people in Sol Station, keeping in mind that we only really get to explore 1 floor of the Station. If Sol Station had 10 decks then sure, put is all in there but once you get past 15-20 it just starts to feel cramped with other players all inching each other's characters away from various NPC contacts and running into each other. I think the current system of trying to keep the Station's population to 10-15 is a good one. Also, I believe the Station zone limit is 25, not 50.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    What about DS9 though? That feels really empty. It's started to pick up recently, with the fleet action and all, but when I first went there it was like a ghost town.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Streakfury wrote: »
    What about DS9 though? That feels really empty. It's started to pick up recently, with the fleet action and all, but when I first went there it was like a ghost town.

    Deep Space Nine has only content for about 1 1/2 tiers of play. There is no reason to go back there once you're RA5. Sol has stuff everyone needs at all levels. All kinds of traders, new ships to buy, exploration stores and so on ...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I tend to only use starbases for banking, mail, and the exchange, so I use DS9 quite frequently as it's the closest starbase to where I'm usually floating about (at RA3).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wrote:
    What about DS9 though? That feels really empty. It's started to pick up recently, with the fleet action and all, but when I first went there it was like a ghost town.
    DS9's really a stop-over point rather then a hub (Sol being the hub in the game) much like Starbase 39 is. There's very few things we can do at DS9 that we can't do at Starbase 39. About the only thing we can do at DS9 that we can't do at ST39 is swap or buy a few ships in the Shipyard. For everything else we end up having to go back to Sol, anyway. If DS9 were as fully-functional as Sol Station people would probably spend more time there but as it is if you Level you need to return to Sol. If you want to buy new Skills for your BOs you need to ruturn to Sol, if you want to spend some Exploration Merits you need to return to Sol. DS9 is really just a glorified Quickie-Mart, IMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    wrote:
    I tend to only use starbases for banking, mail, and the exchange, so I use DS9 quite frequently as it's the closest starbase to where I'm usually floating about (at RA3).
    At RA3 you should be hanging around Gamma Orianas as there's no more missions for you to do in the Cardassian areas. You can get the same Exploration Merits from B'Tran as you can Zenas, plus you can earn the Honor Merits at the same time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't need to see crowds of ships or people, the connected zone chat lets me hear folks when I want to. Trek is primarily a one ship one crew experience to me, so the less other ships I see the better for me.

    When I feel the need for a crowd I pop into SB 24 or a Dse, or DS9's fleet action for doing the crowd thing. Space is too small as is, I wish every sector map was at least four times the size that they are now with more systems to drop in on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    I don't need to see crowds of ships or people, the connected zone chat lets me hear folks when I want to. Trek is primarily a one ship one crew experience to me, so the less other ships I see the better for me.
    I think that's quite valid view. People forget how few times allied starships really encounter each other in the 726 episodes - and what groupings we do generally see involve major ship battles: Wolf 359, DS9, etc. Those would be like Fleet Actions in the game. Most episodes are about one ship, one crew, and what missions they encountered on their journey.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    I think that's quite valid view. People forget how few times allied starships really encounter each other in the 726 episodes - and what groupings we do generally see involve major ship battles: Wolf 359, DS9, etc. Those would be like Fleet Actions in the game. Most episodes are about one ship, one crew, and what missions they encountered on their journey.

    but then again, it's a game, and an MMORPG no less, I for one enjoy seeing other players flying around, it makes me feel like i'm actually in a persistent game world and not just an offline singleplayer game with EA's new "always connected to the internet" DRM.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:

    I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

    Changing it so it puts at least 45 people in a single instance before creating a new one would go a long way to improving the overall 'feel' of the game and improving socialisation.

    It feels like Sol Station is empty, but there are actually 168 people there!

    I just turned Captain. ( I know, it's such a repetitive grind I just can't bring myself to zerg through it ).

    One of the reasons it has become slower to level for me is that I have a quest log full of defend the sector, Warzone and later fleet actions ( CE, Big DIg )
    The reason I can't do these 10 quests? They require you to group with other players. Attempting to do them solo or with the one or two other players that have turned up when I have looked at them just makes for frustrating death.
    I could go back and do some of the earlier defend missions solo now but the fact is that because of a lack of players in game plus Cryptic's decision to split us up so much that I can never expect to find enough people to complete any of these missions means I am being excluded from content that I'd like to have played but have no hope of doing it until possibly I'm at Admiral and have no reason to do them other than boredom.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I just turned Captain. ( I know, it's such a repetitive grind I just can't bring myself to zerg through it ).

    One of the reasons it has become slower to level for me is that I have a quest log full of defend the sector, Warzone and later fleet actions ( CE, Big DIg )
    The reason I can't do these 10 quests? They require you to group with other players. Attempting to do them solo or with the one or two other players that have turned up when I have looked at them just makes for frustrating death.
    I could go back and do some of the earlier defend missions solo now but the fact is that because of a lack of players in game plus Cryptic's decision to split us up so much that I can never expect to find enough people to complete any of these missions means I am being excluded from content that I'd like to have played but have no hope of doing it until possibly I'm at Admiral and have no reason to do them other than boredom.
    Heh, I see this come up all the time now. Folks like me used to go to old fleet actions and DSEs and shoot things up, but the boards got full of posts calling us evil loot stealers and stuff like that, so it was deemed that we were horrible and evil, and thus came level banding.

    I usually used my Connie, left the blue phasers in, added a mkx quantum, covariant or regen and engine and went to SB 24 and tore things up. Did not do it for loot, did it for fun and helping out.

    Nowadays I LIKE the level banded SB24 and doing it with my regular ship. Now when I see a post complaining about how it is now I think of Rorschach in Watchmen saying..... They will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll whisper "no... and I have an evil chuckle to myself.


    ...p.s. mind you, I wasn't jumping in on peoples fights 99% of the time.. I'd be off in a swarm by myself... on the rare times I'd use my main cruiser I'd be tossing boff powers around..teams ..extending shields and such
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    Heh, I see this come up all the time now. Folks like me used to go to old fleet actions and DSEs and shoot things up, but the boards got full of posts calling us evil loot stealers and stuff like that, so it was deemed that we were horrible and evil, and thus came level banding.

    I usually used my Connie, left the blue phasers in, added a mkx quantum, covariant or regen and engine and went to SB 24 and tore things up. Did not do it for loot, did it for fun and helping out.

    Nowadays I LIKE the level banded SB24 and doing it with my regular ship. Now when I see a post complaining about how it is now I think of Rorschach in Watchmen saying..... They will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll whisper "no... and I have an evil chuckle to myself.


    ...p.s. mind you, I wasn't jumping in on peoples fights 99% of the time.. I'd be off in a swarm by myself... on the rare times I'd use my main cruiser I'd be tossing boff powers around..teams ..extending shields and such

    either way there is no escaping that these places were being farmed for loot to sell.
    The level banding was a good idea but they forgot about the fact that nobody is playing any more. Now it needs a rethink so that there are rewards for all that contribute and that lower tiers can compete for quality loot that they actually need for their level.

    There is no loot farming now because the loot is banded. Admirals don't need to buy blue drops from fleet actions. The only reason to do it before was to win the low tier loot and sell it for ridiculous prices to low tier characters.

    I don't care so much other than I'm being excluded from content because I'm alone in space. Make it solo friendly if you can't fix the loot rewards for people that need it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    either way there is no escaping that these places were being farmed for loot to sell.
    The level banding was a good idea but they forgot about the fact that nobody is playing any more. Now it needs a rethink so that there are rewards for all that contribute and that lower tiers can compete for quality loot that they actually need for their level.

    There is no loot farming now because the loot is banded. Admirals don't need to buy blue drops from fleet actions. The only reason to do it before was to win the low tier loot and sell it for ridiculous prices to low tier characters.

    I don't care so much other than I'm being excluded from content because I'm alone in space. Make it solo friendly if you can't fix the loot rewards for people that need it.
    /shrug ... think I've sold 6 things max on the exchange and 3 of them were tribbles. Can't care at all about the exchange, there isn't anything I really need a lot of cash for so I feed my replicator everything. 8')
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Intrepidox wrote: »
    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6534/instances.png :confused:

    I recall developers saying that instances could hold 50 people each, so why spread everyone out so much? it doesn't really help with the whole "the game is dying, where is everyone going?" when you have everyone spread out over separate instances so much.

    Changing it so it puts at least 45 people in a single instance before creating a new one would go a long way to improving the overall 'feel' of the game and improving socialisation.

    It feels like Sol Station is empty, but there are actually 168 people there!


    Its just the time of day you happened to take that snapshot. Evenings, they are sitting at between 30-38 people each. As for the other times, as Starbase-1 always has players present its not getting the opportunity to close down instances. Hence why you see the same number of instances, but with less people in each.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ker'rat is easy...hit the nodes from the top...nice and slow park almost directly above the node and just behind the hidden Borg ships so they cant see you and download info...if there are 2 of you...use one as a decoy to keep the borg busy...do the outside nodes..if you go in the middle your toast...after eight are downloaded, take out 4 of the little builder cubes...theres lots of nodes and builder cubes so you have plenty of targets.

    Took me a couple of dailies to figure it out, but after getting smoked a few dozen times I "JUST" knew there had to be a easier way. To tell you the truth I do not think Ker'rat is bugged...I think it is designed to be like that...Pretty sick if it is...Those Devs...just can't trust them to make things fair and even..lololol

    Lets talk about those BoPs that can fire weapons "Cloaked" in PvP...for fair and even chat. But that is for another forum...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I am for condensing some sector maps and such... but places like SOL should stay how they are... this game already eats up my whole CPU while on the ground (Core2Duo 3.2 Ghz). However, high CPU usage is pretty common for MMOs (takes lots of cycles to handle all that info between the world and player). They had already said that one of the reasons for making you fly in Sector Space was that it was one of the only social spaces they could force and I am fine with that. So if you want it to be a social space... make it more social.

    I do think however, that they should keep the exploration sectors how they are or make them even less populated... you are off exploring....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't disagree, but at the same time more populated instances will cause a hit on performance, both on their servers and the clients. I think they have it tuned a little too far in favor of performance, but I wouldn't want to cause more framerate / lag issues for players with lower-end hardware either...though I suppose if they removed about 15 million asteroids it might even things out a little.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't disagree, but at the same time more populated instances will cause a hit on performance, both on their servers and the clients. I think they have it tuned a little too far in favor of performance, but I wouldn't want to cause more framerate / lag issues for players with lower-end hardware either...though I suppose if they removed about 15 million asteroids it might even things out a little.

    But there are not asteroids in sector space or Sol Station... I thought we were talking about changing the shard limits on those...
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