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STF Question

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I keep seeing posts about people complaining about endgame content at launch, yet these same individuals clearly state they don't play because of it yet on countless times I see them mention they never beat or even attempted the STFs since they have been added..... Sound hypocritical? Lets see...

So what I am asking is this:

List all the STFs you have completed and how you feel about endgame content.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The issue with STFs is that they're not soloable. Most people would have played through them by now if they were. Lots of people, like myself, don't like to PUG. This means I can only attempt the STFs when at least 3 other of my friends are also online and also wanting to do it. There were also so many bug issues with Infected when it launched that it left a bad taste in many mouths - a taste that has made some of us unwilling to try again.

    I really like the concept of the STFs: one gigantic epip storyline. I just haven't been able to get enough friends online to finish the first one yet. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    There is a balance between raid and soloable.

    It's the social soloable content. The stuff that other games have that is a bit much for one person but perfect for two. The stuff that keeps soloers busy.

    An MMO doesn't need one endgame but five:

    - Solo/small group content. A challenge for the individual whether it be perseverance (grinds) or skill. In WoW, this is wintersaber/Argent Tournament, etc.

    - Casual group content. Ie. dumb fun for you and any four random buddies to blow through. (Ie. casual dungeons seen in most games from City of Heroes to Warcraft's non-Heroics and most of its Heroics.)

    - Strategic group PvE

    - Achievement-oriented PvP

    - Dumb fun-oriented PvP

    I know it's a lot. You can recycle some between these by having rated/unrated play, difficulty adjustment, etc. But I think any MMO needs all five.

    I think STO can get there by enhancing exploration/repeatable content for the soloer, by nerfing the heck out of STFs (creating an uber casual version) and using the difficulty slider to determine rewards and actually switch loot tables (taking STFs beyond where they are now with the slider) and by adding rated PvP territory control while continuing to also develop "dumb fun" PvP.

    Also... I'd suggest breaking STFs up into parts more to give them more of a winged dungeon feel that people can visit the sections of more independently in shorter sessions. Four hours is too much. An hour and a half three nights a week is a lot different than one four hour session. And gating just reduces your playerbase.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    it be nice if elite was 10man team mode imo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    There is a balance between raid and soloable.

    It's the social soloable content. The stuff that other games have that is a bit much for one person but perfect for two. The stuff that keeps soloers busy.

    An MMO doesn't need one endgame but five:

    - Solo/small group content. A challenge for the individual whether it be perseverance (grinds) or skill. In WoW, this is wintersaber/Argent Tournament, etc.

    - Casual group content. Ie. dumb fun for you and any four random buddies to blow through. (Ie. casual dungeons seen in most games from City of Heroes to Warcraft's non-Heroics and most of its Heroics.)

    - Strategic group PvE

    - Achievement-oriented PvP

    - Dumb fun-oriented PvP

    I know it's a lot. You can recycle some between these by having rated/unrated play, difficulty adjustment, etc. But I think any MMO needs all five.

    I think STO can get there by enhancing exploration/repeatable content for the soloer, by nerfing the heck out of STFs (creating an uber casual version) and using the difficulty slider to determine rewards and actually switch loot tables (taking STFs beyond where they are now with the slider) and by adding rated PvP territory control while continuing to also develop "dumb fun" PvP.

    Also... I'd suggest breaking STFs up into parts more to give them more of a winged dungeon feel that people can visit the sections of more independently in shorter sessions. Four hours is too much. An hour and a half three nights a week is a lot different than one four hour session. And gating just reduces your playerbase.
    Thanks. That cleared a lot for me. I was always wondering what "endgame content" really meant for the MMO experts out there.

    STFs could certainly win a lot if they were available to play in smaller chunks. 3+ hours for possibly buggy content and definitely difficult content is hard to organize for me.

    What would you say is covered by the following STO elements:
    1) Borg Sensor Contacts. (I limit this to Borg because the rest is generally levelled for lower level characters.)
    2) Exploration Missions
    3) STFs m
    4) Existing PvP content?

    Overall I'd say that:
    1) covers "mindless fun". You just jump in and see how long you last. Since it's only Borg, there is probably need for more variety.
    2) might cover small group / solo content.
    3) Strategic group might be the STFs, depending on what you define as strategic? (But it's not repeatable, or is it?)
    4) PvP stuff doesn't seems mostly "for fun" as there are no long-term goals like persistent PvP zones, so aside from the "strategy" of winning an individual instance, there isn't much to go for.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    There is a balance between raid and soloable.

    It's the social soloable content. The stuff that other games have that is a bit much for one person but perfect for two. The stuff that keeps soloers busy.

    An MMO doesn't need one endgame but five:

    - Solo/small group content. A challenge for the individual whether it be perseverance (grinds) or skill. In WoW, this is wintersaber/Argent Tournament, etc.

    - Casual group content. Ie. dumb fun for you and any four random buddies to blow through. (Ie. casual dungeons seen in most games from City of Heroes to Warcraft's non-Heroics and most of its Heroics.)

    - Strategic group PvE

    - Achievement-oriented PvP

    - Dumb fun-oriented PvP

    I know it's a lot. You can recycle some between these by having rated/unrated play, difficulty adjustment, etc. But I think any MMO needs all five.

    I think STO can get there by enhancing exploration/repeatable content for the soloer, by nerfing the heck out of STFs (creating an uber casual version) and using the difficulty slider to determine rewards and actually switch loot tables (taking STFs beyond where they are now with the slider) and by adding rated PvP territory control while continuing to also develop "dumb fun" PvP.

    Also... I'd suggest breaking STFs up into parts more to give them more of a winged dungeon feel that people can visit the sections of more independently in shorter sessions. Four hours is too much. An hour and a half three nights a week is a lot different than one four hour session. And gating just reduces your playerbase.

    Leviathan, that's about as neat an analysis of an MMO's endgame experience (ideally) as I've seen anywhere. Full props for putting into words where people (and devs?) can see it!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Other sensor contacts will scale to your level but the problem is that this makes lower ranks who join cannon fodder.

    And segregating sensor contacts would create the same issues that segregating fleet actions has created.

    I would strongly advise Cryptic to re-examine its roaming world monsters from City of Heroes for more of its content.

    These monsters dealt and received percentage based damage adjusted by your level rather than hard numbers which meant that a character of any level (provided they had some basic abilities) was valuable and useful. It was one of the best mechanics in CoH, IMHO, and one of the most fun aspects of that game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    i've played through all 4 stf's and well end game in sto is a joke. that is about it.
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