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5 Reasons STO is failing

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
(Calm the flames, its the article headline...not mine)

MMO Hub Article

Summed up it basically says:
1. Cryptic failed to finish the game.
2. Atari and Cryptic failed to keep their greed in check
3. STO fails as an MMO.
4. Non-PvE activities fail.
5. The endgame fails.

I don't agree with everything he points out, but mostly this seems spot on to me as to the primary problems.

Thoughts?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The endgame does indeed fail.
    My topics going deep on the subject have been deleted.

    Cryptic's response to the failure of the endgame: "LA LA LA LA LA! I am not listening! LA LA LA!"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    (Calm the flames, its the article headline...not mine)

    MMO Hub Article

    Summed up it basically says:
    1. Cryptic failed to finish the game.
    2. Atari and Cryptic failed to keep their greed in check
    3. STO fails as an MMO.
    4. Non-PvE activities fail.
    5. The endgame fails.

    I don't agree with everything he points out, but mostly this seems spot on to me as to the primary problems.

    Thoughts?

    I agree with each of these points 100%

    STO is NOT Star Trek
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    1. Lack of content at endgame. There was actually NOTHING at launch, they didn't add any RA level stuff until the first patch.

    2. Lack of sufficient sandbox elements (such as open pvp areas, an actual crafting system, amongst others) for players to be able to generate their OWN content post RA5.

    3. Lack of choice with respect to ships at RA5. We basically are forced to jettison all those wonderfully done iconic ships we had to get to RA and end up flying the same ugly ships at Admiral. Releasing ugly reskins for them is not sufficient.

    4. Star Trek isn't about killing everything that moves.

    5. I just have to be point 1 all over again. Content, content, content. No content, no game, no longevity, no reason to play, no subscribers. It literally isn't any simpler than that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think people should learn to add "Me" to their opinions, as in, "5 Reasons STO fails Me." Then I'd be able to take them seriously and relate to their problems and issues. As long as Gold Sellers are bothering me on a daily basis and I'm getting unsolicited Fleet-invites from random strangers and having fun going through the content despite doing so with a second character after the first one is semi-retired at RA5, the game isn't failing me, and that's all that truly matters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Not sure how much weight that specific site carries but I hope Cryptic reads this along with all the other remarks about the game and turns to point.

    I bet you though this thread will flock with apologists doing more lalallala impression before too long, therefore staying Cryptic's hand for actually addressing these concerns first hand.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Eh, the came has only been out for 3 months, its too soon to predict if it will fail or not.

    I've played through Open Beta, the Head Star Access, and ever since official release and I can tell you that the changes from the first day I played until now are amazing. The game is definitely 100 times better. I haven't gotten bored yet and I cannot see myself getting bored anytime soon.

    Cryptic didn't complete the game because they were on a deadline by CBS (I believe that's who it was) and if they didn't release the game on time they would lose the license to Star Trek and to make the game. I don't blame them for rushing it.

    They are definitely a bit too greedy, however they are giving a lot of stuff away for free with this new veteran rewards program. Although some of the prices in the C-Store could be lowered.

    STO is already massive and is already online, we just need more multi-player content.


    Non-PvE activities fail? I'm assuming that means PvP fails? I really haven't played any PvP so I can't comment.

    Haven't done the endgame yet either so I can't comment on that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    If you read the article, the guy that wrote it has played since beta and said he actually enjoys the game.

    So this isn't an article about why STO is failing him, he likes it just fine.

    It's also not a thread about why STO failed me. I have given that testimony until I'm blue in the face...both here and as product reviews on as many sites as I could manage.

    I simply wanted to discuss the merits of what the author was conveying in this article.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    LordOfPit wrote: »
    I think people should learn to add "Me" to their opinions, as in, "5 Reasons STO fails Me." Then I'd be able to take them seriously and relate to their problems and issues. As long as Gold Sellers are bothering me on a daily basis and I'm getting unsolicited Fleet-invites from random strangers and having fun going through the content despite doing so with a second character after the first one is semi-retired at RA5, the game isn't failing me, and that's all that truly matters.

    Right now, having stuff to do would require me to level another character to RA5, as there is literally next to nothing for my RA5 first toon to do.

    This is, well, a PROBLEM. If grinding more characters is the only thing to do in this game, then it really isn't a functioning, ongoing MMORPG, but instead a single player game that happens to require a subscription that has no more replay value than Mass Effect 2, since all you can do when you are done is replay it over and over.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Not this again.....

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    If you read the article, the guy that wrote it has played since beta and said he actually enjoys the game.

    So this isn't an article about why STO is failing him, he likes it just fine.

    It's also not a thread about why STO failed me. I have given that testimony until I'm blue in the face...both here and as product reviews on as many sites as I could manage.

    I simply wanted to discuss the merits of what the author was conveying in this article.

    It's the same thing every time. You criticise the game, you must hate it. It's the easy way out for apologists because then they don't have to think about what you say.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    castogere wrote: »
    Not this again.....

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe

    This post made me giggle. Why so angry, man?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's the same thing every time. You criticise the game, you must hate it. It's the easy way out for apologists because then they don't have to think about what you say.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe

    I can't convey enough that I'm not attacking anyone having a good time. If you are having fun, then I say thats awesome...have fun!

    I'm still just as welcome to my opinions on the matter as anyone else is. And as I've stated plainly before, I paid my one year sub (foolishly) so I also have the right to be here.

    I'm not a troll, I'm a disappointed customer.

    Thanks LT, at least you get it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    attilio wrote: »
    Eh, the came has only been out for 3 months, its too soon to predict if it will fail or not.

    But it's easy to see ( and unavoidable actually ) that there has been an immense drop-off in active players since launch ( beta is of no consequence, many people will play anything for free while they can ) and that has hurt the game already, in reputation with players and reputation in the outside gaming community.

    I've played through Open Beta, the Head Star Access, and ever since official release and I can tell you that the changes from the first day I played until now are amazing.
    [subjective] The game is definitely 100 times better.[subjective, assumptive, speculatory] I haven't gotten bored yet and I cannot see myself getting bored anytime soon.

    Cryptic didn't complete the game because they were on a deadline by CBS (I believe that's who it was) and if they didn't release the game on time they would lose the license to Star Trek and to make the game.

    [assumptive and wildly incorrect. CBS did not commission the game. Jack Emmert asked his friends at Perpetual to transfer the license they had obtained from CBS ( rights to produce under license ), this was agreed by CBS after a quick, five days work on a demo was shown to them. CBS did not set any deadlines because it's not their product nor were they paying for it. Jack Emmert has set his own deadlines by boasting that he can get an MMO to market from inception in 2 years by re-using the same engine. That 2 years was up, hence it was released. I don't blame them for rushing it.

    They are definitely a bit too greedy, however they are giving a lot of stuff away for free with this new veteran rewards program. Although some of the prices in the C-Store could be lowered.

    STO is already massive and is already online, we just need more multi-player content.
    [opinion] I fail to see how a playerbase this small in a game that has little social community and no reason to form one can be considered massive but that's my opinion.


    Non-PvE activities fail? I'm assuming that means PvP fails? I really haven't played any PvP so I can't comment.
    You are assuming wrong. He makes it clear that he means crafting. What he implies by non-PvE content is activities outside of the single-track quest line.

    Haven't done the endgame yet either so I can't comment on that.


    my comments in yellow
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Thoughts?

    What it never says is any actual evidence the game is failing. This is just another QQ blog.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    (Calm the flames, its the article headline...not mine)

    MMO Hub Article

    Summed up it basically says:
    1. Cryptic failed to finish the game.
    2. Atari and Cryptic failed to keep their greed in check
    3. STO fails as an MMO.
    4. Non-PvE activities fail.
    5. The endgame fails.

    I don't agree with everything he points out, but mostly this seems spot on to me as to the primary problems.

    Thoughts?

    Isn't that the same site that had an article on how to pick up women in an MMO???? That site is such loser bait, look at the background image for godsakes.

    FYI - STO may have failed you, but not me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I can't convey enough that I'm not attacking anyone having a good time. If you are having fun, then I say thats awesome...have fun!

    I'm still just as welcome to my opinions on the matter as anyone else is. And as I've stated plainly before, I paid my one year sub (foolishly) so I also have the right to be here.

    I'm not a troll, I'm a disappointed customer.

    Thanks LT, at least you get it.

    My bad, I only got to the meat of the post...so embarrased! Altered for more restraint of understanding.

    Just kinda got sick of the negative posts about something that others have control over in all of its simplicity.

    Its one of those darned if you do and darned if you don't. Eevryone had to buy the game, everyone had to purchase a sub. I don't know of anything that i buy that is as good as advertised.

    Only time will truly tell.

    Not really angry though...kinda difficult to do for someone with my disposition. Do I have fun playing? More often than not. You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.

    You may now hit me with the many licks of saturns belt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    My flames flaming deep on the subject have been deleted.

    Fixed that for you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    castogere wrote: »
    My bad, I only got to the meat of the post...so embarrased! Altered for more restraint of understanding.

    Just kinda got sick of the negative posts about something that others have control over in all of its simplicity.

    Its one of those darned if you do and darned if you don't. Eevryone had to buy the game, everyone had to purchase a sub. I don't know of anything that i buy that is as good as advertised.

    Only time will truly tell.

    Not really angry though...kinda difficult to do for someone with my disposition. Do I have fun playing? More often than not. You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.

    You may now hit me with the many licks of saturns belt.

    No harm, no foul. :)

    Party on!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    In my opinion, STO is failing as an MMO because the franchise itself is not Sparta-friendly. Sorry guys, DS9 and it's ridiculous fleet battles was the exception and not the rule. It's as simple as that, and Cryptic chose to focus on the STAR TREK experience as faithfully as their resources allow them to do so, instead of the EVE+WoW experience some people may have expected and still do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think what STO gamers were really looking for, and hoping for.......


    was intellectual depth. Which most MMOs lack greatly.


    Again who knows...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with you that most MMOs are failing at providing depth lately.

    I've always contended that the reason WoW continues to dominate the market isn't because of its greatness, its because the other MMOs lack thereof.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    (Calm the flames, its the article headline...not mine)

    MMO Hub Article

    Summed up it basically says:
    1. Cryptic failed to finish the game.
    2. Atari and Cryptic failed to keep their greed in check
    3. STO fails as an MMO.
    4. Non-PvE activities fail.
    5. The endgame fails.

    I don't agree with everything he points out, but mostly this seems spot on to me as to the primary problems.

    Thoughts?

    I found his final note very important:
    Ron Keith wrote:
    At this point, it would be pithy to say, “STO fails.” and end this article at that. But STO doesn't fail, not completely. It's a game with a lot of potential. The space combat and ground combat works. The Federation side has some good content and the little bit of endgame content that is there is pretty good. In fact, if Cryptic added some more endgame content and finished the Klingon faction, STO could be a supersweet MMO.

    Cryptic seems to be scrambling to fix the game and flush out its content. But will it be enough? Have they already dug themselves too deep a hole by releasing STO too early? At this point, the hole seems awfully deep, probably too deep. If it is, STO will quickly devolve to maintenance mode and join a growing list of MMO failures.
    It doesn't really need that much, and it seems this kind of stuff is coming. So I just don't feel the expression
    "Startrek Online is Failing" is a good description. "Startrek Online has a lot of potential" and "Startrek Online has yet to realize its full potential" a lot better. [/Season 2 Optimist]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with you that most MMOs are failing at providing depth lately.

    I've always contended that the reason WoW continues to dominate the market isn't because of its greatness, its because the other MMOs lack thereof.

    True... other MMOs are lacking, and I expect Bioware to take away the crown from WoW as it is overly carebeer friendly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    True... other MMOs are lacking, and I expect Bioware to take away the crown from WoW as it is overly carebeer friendly.

    As someone who has also been looking forward to Bioware's offering, I hope you're right. I've tried to keep my expectations in check with upcoming MMO releases, however.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This thread is new and refreshing, plus it includes deep and thoughtful analytical insight which we have never seen before.

    BWAHAHAHA!

    Sorry. I couldn't keep a straight face, either. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    True... other MMOs are lacking, and I expect Bioware to take away the crown from WoW as it is overly carebeer friendly.
    I doubt that is gonna happen, though I wouldn't mind if it did. Star Wars is a strong franchise with a lot of fans that deserves a good game. And Bioware has been good with what it did in the past, but an MMO is not exactly what they did in the past. But I tend to discourage people to compare game success with WoW success. Something like WoW will not happen again. It's kinda like expecting Windows to be replaced by a new-comer OS.

    ---

    Since I am not very experienced with other MMO, one question i have: What do people describe as "end-game" content? What is it made of? Is it just repeatable missions, and "endgame content" just means there must be enough of unique different? (E.g. PvP and Exploration alone are part of it, but there must be more?)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well, I've stated it before in another topic, but yes STO has all the markings that it is failing for now. This doesn't mean however that if the devs put their backs into it that STO won't be a vivid and grand game soon.

    You need to keep in mind that they were under stress by CBS and Atari for the releasing of the game. STO only has a 2 year development cycle which in terms for a MMO isn't long at all.

    However, we've seen at other failed MMO launches such as Age of Conan and Warhammer Online that it tends to be extremely hard to fix up the game and win back the subscribers you've lost. I think it's still too soon to judge about STO, we'll see with the release of the next big patch. Bare in mind also that there's a few promotions coming, in my opinion it's too soon but hey it's the PR department doing it so dunno how they reason that doing a promotion at this time in STO's cycle is a good idea.

    Season 2 patch will be the balance on which we'll see how many subs will stay and how many more of them will be leaving. So wait until then and see I'd say :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    castogere wrote: »
    I think what STO gamers were really looking for, and hoping for.......
    That's the problem right there, STO'ers =/= MMO'ers, isn't it? ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    If only this thread was original and unique, I might have something to add.
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