STO Open PvP: A Proposal Using Existing Game Mechanics
WARNING: Long read - I recommend you grab a sandwich and a cup of coffee.
This is an open discussion with the purpose of advancing STO PvP beyond the simple no-consequence queue system into a more meaningful experience that would affect players and the game itself. The area to be affected would not be changed from the current neutral zone territories. These new proposed effects would include military, political, scientific and humanitarian aspects, so as to include a large number of players into a far more immersive player versus player experience.
A number of MMOs have included a faction versus faction (Or guild versus guild) mechanic, some more successful than others. Some of these are; Age of Conan (AoC), Warhammer Online (WAR), PlanetSide (PS), Pirates of the Burning Sea (PotBS) and to a lesser extent, Star Wars Galaxies (SWG). The common denominator with the aforementioned games is a mechanic designed to allow players (individual or in groups, whether pickup groups or organized teams or guilds) to take and hold portions of ingame geography. In PlanetSide for example, the goal is to capture bases that will ultimately allow an entire faction to take control of entire islands (later changed to planets). Another good example of a possible game mechanic would be that exhibited in Pirates of the Burning Sea; where player factions attack ports (See Port Battles in PotBS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PotBS#Port_battle for more information) and gain influence, controlling taxes (economic), port defenses (for use in future battles to repel the next attacker) and resource gathering (friendly forces have greater access to basic resources for use in construction of ships, consumables, et cetera).
The initial area proposed for use is the Eta Eridani Sector Block, made up of the Aldebaron, Donatu and Archanis sectors. Ultimately, to include faction to faction player versus player combat for all factions, some form of addition (either a new sector, or a transwarp conduit would probably be necessary to allow participation by the added factions (for example the Romulans, or Cardassians; if they do eventually become separate playable factions, which seems to be the case. The best solution would probably be an added sector that would "belong" to each of the introduced factions, so they would all be on the same basic footing.) The sector block is already set up with a Klingon (Ganalda station in Archanis) base on one side and a Fed base on the other (K7 in Aldebaron), with a neutral sector (Donatu) between.
The basic mechanic is fairly simple; make the Eta Eridani Sector Block an open PvP area (move any PvE missions out to other sectors, so as to not "force" any player to PvP if they don't wish to), if a player enters one of the three sectors, he can attack and be attacked by any player or players from the opposing faction, and allow players from both factions to attack planets and stations within the sector block. A planet or station in the Aldebaron and Archanis sectors would start off "owned" by one faction or the other, planets and stations in the Donatu sector would start off as neutral.
Each system within the three sectors would either have an NPC station or a planetary defense system already in place, made up of various automated turrets, some NPC ships to be overcome, and down below on planets, NPCs and turrets (and possibly in the future, ground based vehicles, if they are ever included in the game). On an "owned" planet or station, the NPCs and turrets fight on the same side as the owning faction. In the case of neutral system defenses, they fight against both factions.
To capture a system, three things must take place:
1. Destroy NPC and enemy player ships present in the system. (If a defending player's ship is destroyed in this phase, he is allowed to respawn in space 3 times, on the fourth (number of lives is completely negotiable, but 4 seems reasonable), he respawns onboard the station, to simulate finite defensive capabilities. To simulate finite attacker capabilities, the attackers also are also only allowed 4 "lives". On being destroyed the fourth time, they would respawn outside of the system and cannot reenter for a period of 8 hours. This also conveys a sense of "home advantage" on the part of the defenders, and simulates the necessity in combat of an attacker needing superior numbers and/or logistics to overwhelm a prepared defensive position.
2. Neutralize Station/planetary defenses (NPC and player controlled). Upon a defender's fourth respawn (or if he chooses to beam over early to the station) a defensive player make take control of a defensive array/torpedo bank on the station (or in the case of the planet, planetary defense turrets). (A 3rd person view similar to the current tactical view where the station or turret takes the place of the tactical view of the ship.) The defensive player would have access to his own and his bridge officers' assorted abilities where applicable. (Obviously, abilities such as Attack Pattern Alpha, which affects turning capacity; Emergency Power to Engines, which increases engine power; would not be useable in this situation.) If the attackers are able to destroy the station's defenses, they then:
3. Board the station or beam to the surface. (Wherever the defender's command center is located.) The attackers then take control of specific areas aboard the station (or on the planet) in a "capture the flag" type of scenario. Upon beaming to the "ground" portion of the base assault, the attackers are again given 4 "lives" to attempt the capture of the base. If they die 4 times, they respawn outside of the system, again barred from entry to the system for another 8 hours.
The capture itself is accomplished by gaining entry to the command center and taking the "flag" present in the room (a computer - hit "F" to capture, like any computer interaction currently ingame). To win, they must maintain control of the control room for a period of 5 minutes. The defenders (if any are still alive) can of course try to take it back during this 5 minute period.
Once a base is "capped", the system reverts control to the winning faction. To facilitate communication in the event of any system being attacked, players ingame at the time will see a system message informing them of it's location. It is also suggested that a new admiral chat channel be created for each faction, so advanced rank players can coordinate attacks and responses more easily.
Of course, there are other ways to do this, and I welcome additions or suggestions, but I really would like to see PvP become more meaningful than it is now, and have some kind of impact on the game and the players. My hope is that Cryptic will see this and grab some ideas, or at least get their creative juices flowing.
Comments
Assuming that some form of open PvP happens in a given sector, I personally hope (and urge) that some form of impact be felt, to increase the feeling that the two (and later three or four) factions are involved in a hot war. This doesn't have to be a huge impact, especially for those who want to stick with PvE. In fact, I think that the closer a player gets to it, the more impact should be felt. -- Picture someone living in middle America during WW2. He personally didn't feel many effects of war directly, but he did have gas and tire rationing, and he was asked to invest in war bonds, or to assist the war effort in other ways that didn't actually see him fighting himself.
In my original post above, I outlined a capture procedure for systems that exist in the Neutral Zone. These pre-existing "captured" stations would be "owned" by the faction that captures them, not the individual players or fleets that took them. The basic station maps could be identical to the stations that we already have ingame, or perhaps smaller in actual internal size, as long as there is enough space for a 3 (or more) flag capture the flag type of game, with a central command post that would be the ultimate goal.
As a benefit to capturing a station, the owning faction's players would be allowed to pull into port to do a number of things, these could include:
1. Healing player/BOff injuries, and ship damage.
2. Access mail, exchange, personal and fleet banks.
3. Access ship and character customization NPCs.
4. Purchase weapons and equipment for credits. (Not redeem exploration or PvP medals, I think these should remain as reasons to return to Sol/K7 and Qo'Nos/Ganalda.)
5. Purchase materials to build a smaller "Fleet Station".
I'm open to suggestions, I'm sure there's more that could be done.
Now, on to "Fleet Stations"...
As an added benefit, for winning system battles, fleets (or players) could earn some form of award (It doesn't have to be new, Honor or Merit works for this just as well) that they could use to purchase the various components needed to build their own station. These could go from raw material: 4,000 tons of metal, 2,000 tons of wiring, boxes of electronics, to fully assembled component modules: Command Module, Life Support Module, Quarters Module, et cetera...
There could even be two kinds of station, an attackable PvP station that a fleet places on the "Front Lines", (perhaps instead of the systems in Donatu sector having pre-built neutral stations, fleets would have to purchase, assemble and ultimately defend, stations in systems that they "claim" in the name of their faction?) and a non-attackable fleet owned station that is placed in a friendly PvE system, in a private instance, accessable through a button upon entering the system. -- This would also allow players who do not belong to fleets to own and control their own "personal" station (or even colony... more on this later, but station or colony management sounds like a decent end game type of activity to me. Certainly better than a couple of daily missions.) and serves as a decent time, credit and honor/merit sink.
Thoughts?
It would only work if the Prize for victory were given to "ALL" Capts...PvP and PvE alike and the losing side would get a smaller prize for time and resources spent defending in a losing effort.
Bragging rights of course, would be the real prize.
let me repeat my argument
KdF is now outnumbered 100 by 1 or even worse
Or in other words, all this stations belong to Feddy Bears and there will be not enough KdF to conquere any of em :cool:
As KdF was a dead horse born and ST:O is ST:Federation Online / include any kind of persistend PvP now
will only result in more "disencurage" for any NON Feddy bear
That could be easily handled by limiting the number of players in each "siege" (I guess we could call it), just like they're limited in any PvP match now. And I don't feel particularly outnumbered in PvP, except for the odd 3 vs 5 bout in Solar Wind/Cracked Planet.
Also, if we put a timer on a base after it's capped, then the opposing side would have to wait a while before attacking again. 8 - 12 hours, maybe as much as 24? That way, no faction could "Zerg" a base.
With a system like this or any other well done PvP system you would see a large number of resubs on the Klingon side (most who left game on my fleet quit because PvP was so pointless).. Also you would get more interest from those turned off of STO because they heard how limiting PvP was. Also alot of Feds have rolled Klingon toons and most seem to enjoy the Klingon player base more so we might steal a few from them. Pluss cloak would give the Klingons the choice to pick our fights. It would be tough to begin with but well worthwile.
To the OP, You could also tie rare crafting material's to mine (if they would get a decent crafting system that is.
Actually, that's not true. While there isn't any story driven content (Yet, they're working on it as we speak), there are Star Cluster exploration missions and Defending the Klingon Empire missions (Similar to the PvE Patrol missions for Feds) available.
Although whether you play Klingon or Fed isn't really pertinent to the discussion. What I'm attempting to do is offer some suggestions to make PvP meaningful, and relevant to the game at large. I also think that it would be a bigger "draw" for participation from players of both factions if there was a specific area that contained an open PvP mechanic, and not limited to only PvPing with people of strictly the same rank as yourself. -- The "open" area proposed being the already-geared-toward-PvP sectors of the Eta Eridani sector block.
Right now, there are no consequences, either good or bad to PvPing. This is a harder pill to swallow for the Klingons, I think, because the faction is designed around it, with the PvE missions available being basically afterthoughts, with very little variety to them.
What I'd like to see is a true immersive RvR system, where the politics and geography of the day are a direct consequence of the actions that were fought.
Absolutely. In fact, I think that there should be some kind of rare, expolitable resource on each of the worlds in the sector block; some reason for each faction to want them. Whether the resource is a rare mineral, or something more abstract like an important indigenous species, a tact6ical or strategic base, Dilithium Crystals...
I haven't been to Tribble, so I'm not sure what they're planning for crafting in the future. Personally, I'd like to see a variation of what we have now, combined with something like Galaxies had, but simplified a bit. I never understood why they had multiple types of the same materials -- literally, thousands -- it just seemed overcomplicated to me.
But to be complete, I truly think that any kind of RvR gameplay needs to be tied into the game at large. Economy is just as important as combat in an MMO, and should tie in directly with every other aspect of the game.
For example, a large amount of various resources in order to refit an earlier tier of your ship into your current level. That's incentive for players to stay logged on. Sure it might not be an instant cash injection that Cryptic seems to be gunning for using the C-Store, but it'd be something that strings players along so they stay subscribed to the game.
For the players who don't like to PVP but wants to get in on the action, maybe once the system has been turned, there can be PVE missions opened up for them to mine and earn a certain smaller amount of these resources as well.
It'd be awesome if Cryptic can chime in and say whether or not these ideas jive with what they're thinking too, or if they like what they're seeing and are considering. No need for promises, but a little nod in response here or there would be just gravy.
/signed
As far as my fleet, we will welcome open world pvp, whether we are out numbered or not. Winning with numbers is less impressive than losing but putting up a good fight as the out numbered side.
I don't think restricting fights by level is a good idea at all. In fact, ideally, we'd see players of all different ranks fighting together. I'm envisioning a gameplay style that would include everyone (that wanted to participate) all throughout their game "career", from Ensign to Admiral. Something that would be additional content to last from player creation to end game and beyond.
My thinking has evolved here over the past few days about population levels and potential imbalances. I now believe that the only regulating factor should be the desire to participate. As an interesting aside, most fulltime Klingon players (as opposed to Fed players that roll a Klink for something to do) don't seem to be worried about being outnumbered in an open PvP type of gameplay. The majority of those concerned are all Feds, and while I appreciate their concern for our welfare, let's let those who would be most affected by said population imbalance worry about it.
I also believe the population would most probably control itself. Not every Fed player will be PvPing. In fact, many never have and never will. But for a Klingon, PvP is basically unavoidable. I would even go so far as to say that the majority of Klingon players have chosen to continue in that faction despite a lack of PvE storyline missions because they all enjoy PvP at least some of the time. Add to that the fact that experience teaches, most Klingons have many more hours in PvP than their Fed counterparts.
Ultimately, I want to see a group of four or five Lieutenants jump on a solo Admiral trying to make a run to resupply and reinforce a garrison on Donatu.
The most fun I had in a PvP match was in Pirates of the Burning Sea, in an open PvP area, my friend and I were jumped by a solo player at more than twice our level, we not only fought him off, but won the battle. It was the most tense, by-the-seat-of-your-pants PvP experience I've ever had. ---- THAT's what I want to see in STO. That kind of excitement, that level of intensity...
Sry for my english, im from Germany.
Make the neutral Zone to the open PvP Zone, best would be that you have one Frontline.
That means if the Cursa System are captured by Klingons the Klingons can capture Donatu as next and the Feds have to capture Cursa or both sides can capture this or/and the next following system too.
Limitet lives isnt a good idea, better its maybee the following:
Klingons wanna capture Droana System.
They have to enter the System and have to shoot down the expensive shield from the Station (Station must have very strong Shields).
The Feds must defend the Station and if you die on both sides you have a spawm timer where everytime you die adds 30sec to it with e maximum of 5min maybee. Or all spawming in Waves every x min.
Both sides must have a spawm point a little far from the Station where cannot be camped from the other Faction!
If the Klingons cannot taken the stations shields down, and it would be every dead harder if you add there 30sec they must at least surrender.
If the Klingons have the expensive shields from the Station down both factions can beam down for the ground fight.
Now we have more reasons for the ground combat.
Both sides spawms after dead in their space spawm points and must fly to the station and can be attacked from the other faction.
Or both sides spawm after dead in the station, Klingons at Hangar and Feds at the Command Center.
Now both Factions have to hold numerous of Capture Points like Hangar, Bridge, Machine Room... The Faction where captures all points win or it is like the space bg map with influence.
Other reason is the Klingons must capture the Command Center and the feds must defend.
The same system can be used for capture a planet.
If the station/planet are captured the system will be locked for some hours, a day or its delocked if the faction where captured it loosing the battle in the next system.
Maybe the whole sector can be locked for a time if all systems in it are captured by one faction.
Rewards: Special vendors at the stations where you can buy special stuff or something from marks you become from winning the battles.
And in every Sytem an other Vendor with other items.
No rewards like in a fleet action at the end, that would be stupid!
And this items must be only available in PvP and not in PvE so more Feds wanna join PvP. (important: rewards must be only obtained if you arent afk or if you boting/leeching!)
To make the open PvP a little bigger you can set between the planets/stations small capture points where must be defeated befor you can attack the next System.
It can be a Battleship where you must capture or a small Moon...
If the battles are highly unbalanced you can set it on a que, for each fed can join instantly one Klingon or the defenders can have 3 Players more blabla
Butt attention, not set it to a 5vs5 fight, then we can do the normal BG already.
There we nee a bigger attlefield like min 10vs10 maybe 20vs20 ounds good
Otherwise its annoying...
I hope a Dev read this and maybee my ideas gives a little help.
Ehh, it was only one reply. But it was a good one that brought up a good point that needed refutin'.
A couple of problems with doing it that way. The main reason would be that a sector or system within that sector that changes alignment would affect the story mission systems in Fed space, and that would interfere with the story-telling, or just break immersion. (When you see the Fed colony on "X" world is "owned" by the Kliingons, and there are no Klingons on the surface, things like that.)
Another is that I truly think that you shouldn't see the PvE only players in the sector at war. It's immersion breaking to fly by a group of 4 Rear Admiral Feds who aren't flipped to attack the three guys two light years past them who did enable PvP. If you're at war, you should be able to attack the enemy wherever he is. If that's limited to a sector block, then you can attack the enemy... all of them, and you won't even see the PvE only players. (And they wouldn't see you.)
If the whole sector block is PvP active, then what you see is what you get. Also, it adds a level of tension that just doesn't exist if you can just turn off the danger. In effect, it's a limited "If it's red, it's dead". A group of Marines in Viet Nam wouldn't walk right by a group of NVA just because they didn't feel like fighting that day.
Another problem is that you could potentially fly a large group of players from either faction to the homeworld of the enemy with the PvP flags off, then they get there and all of a sudden they attack. Doesn't seem right to me that they could then attack at full strength, but when they passed through several entire sectors, the defenders could only stand there and watch. No, if you want to form a large raiding party and go for the enemy's main base, fine, but the enemy should have every opportunity to stop you on the way
Edit: One more thing, if open PvP were limited to a specific sector block (and hopefully expanded to include new sectors eventually.) then we wouldn't have to worry about the Fed's taking over Qo'Nos, or the Klingons establishing a base on Mars. That would seriously break the story and immersion.
Reply: It would not effect the story mission since all one would have to do is reset the switch to play the story missions. Yes, the map would be a diffrent color depending on the occupation of the system or starbase, but access to the story missions could be resumed at any time.
Reply: The PvP encounters are seen only by the players actively looking for them. This is why I added the clause that enemy incursions are discovered only by someone actively patroling to detect such incursions. Everyone else wouldn't notice them. Then, when an incursion is noticed, it is broadcast to the rest of the players that have their PvP option on. As for the invading force, they can attack any player with their PvP option on, but their position is broadcasted to all other palyers with their PvP on. To add a little thought here. As for the composition of the enemy force, this would be included in the broadcast when someone get close enough to scan them. This would be done by engaging the "Enemy Contact" , which in only visible to the players with the PvP option on, geting close enough to scan, and then warping out or engaging them.
Reply: Basically only players with their PvP on would see the other active PvP. This is the basic idea.
Reply: I agree that would be a problem if that bug was avaliable to be exploited, but I believe Cryptic can develope the programming that wouldn't allow that to happen.
Reply: I think it would be cool to take over Qo'Nos or have the Klingons take over Sol. In fact, I like the idea that no fraction is necessarly at war with the other. The state of war would be determined by how many players actually attack another fraction. Only when a certain number of attacks occure, then war with that fraction is declared. In this way, Fed and Klinks could join to fight Romies. but this idea needs more thought.
I just had a thought on activating PvP. This could be done by simply accepting the mission from an Admiral. This would elimate the need to open the option menue.
It is a great plan and ill be taking this to the KDF Alliance and see if we will support it if they vote yes all our fleet will bump the hell out of this tread and fight for this idea vie CBS/Atari/and cryptic forum as well as star rek fan site please lesson cryptic if not this plan something needs to be done and fast.
Then go play Eve.
Actually, I specifically stated that no PvE content would be in the proposed PvP sector block. You didn't read it did you?
Go read the post. :rolleyes: