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SNB huge worries...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited May 2010 in PvP Gameplay
...I did find SNB a bit OP before, but right now that's skill is ridiculous.

ALL buffs are removed upon using it on target. I'm a science officer and omg, i feel like breaking the game mechanic every time i'm using it. Can we revert to the old one? or something in between, maybe cut the effect by half?

I make escorts look like a teddiursa(it's the cute little bear).

And Cruiser lost all hope of tanking, ever.

Please do something about it, I have no problem feeling OP, but not because of an imbalanced ability.

P.S.: I fear more science escort will pop into the horizon. Diversity will have no purpose :(
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I dont know, I kind of like it. Its something that can now be put on an Escort/BoP to reduce the big alpha strike. And it finally has a counter, Science team.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I love it now when Ships use RSP at low health...pop SNB and they are gone :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Koopa27 wrote: »
    I dont know, I kind of like it. Its something that can now be put on an Escort/BoP to reduce the big alpha strike. And it finally has a counter, Science team.

    Wrong.
    Science team does NOT counter.
    Science team does NOT re-apply the buffs it stripped = -1
    Science team does NOT reset the cooldowns for the buffs it stripped so they can be re-upped= -1
    Science team does NOT block the strip if used previous to being hit with SNB= -1
    Science team does remove the cooldown debuff which is only 1% of the abilities power= +.01

    It is a gamebreaking skill in its current form, it was gamebreaking in its previous form.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    There's really not much that can be done with the skill, while maintaining it's original mechanic (effecting cooldowns).

    I think the entire thing needs retooled, from the ground up. Maybe lowering damage resistance or something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    In it's previous form it was one half an 'iWin' button. The other half being Viral Matrix.

    Now it can at least be worked through.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Koopa27 wrote: »
    I dont know, I kind of like it. Its something that can now be put on an Escort/BoP to reduce the big alpha strike. And it finally has a counter, Science team.

    In otherwords, makes playing an escort totally useless. The point of an escort is about the buffs, the rest helps, but barely.

    From my DSSV perspective, I now laugh at them instead of trying to survive. When the DPS of a game got a nerf that made them the weaklings of the game, where does that leave the game?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    HyenaZERO wrote: »
    In it's previous form it was one half an 'iWin' button. The other half being Viral Matrix.

    Now it can at least be worked through.

    actually, in it's previous form it WAS an Iwin button, Viral Matrix was another button.

    And don't listen to Ayupan, he's just a doomsayer. SNB is still countered by teamwork and extend shields.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ayupan wrote:
    Wrong.
    Science team does NOT counter.
    Science team does NOT re-apply the buffs it stripped = -1
    Science team does NOT reset the cooldowns for the buffs it stripped so they can be re-upped= -1
    Science team does NOT block the strip if used previous to being hit with SNB= -1
    Science team does remove the cooldown debuff which is only 1% of the abilities power= +.01

    It is a gamebreaking skill in its current form, it was gamebreaking in its previous form.

    I agree with this statement. SNB is a pvp game breaker and makes it pointless to compete in that aspect.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    SNB is still countered by teamwork and extend shields.

    Or by having multiple flavors of defense to work with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    You have to be choosy where you use SNB. With a 1min 30 sec CD you cant just be throwing it on anything. You have to play with it tactically, do you wipe the alpha strike buffs on an escort? Or save it for the cruiser with the 4 RSPs? Maybe there is a sci vessel with FBP running and the escorts cant punch the shields, there is a good use of SNB.

    A lot of things can happen in 1 minute and 30 seconds, 90% of the people I see complaining about it have no idea how it works in context. They just read, strip buffs and elongates cooldowns, and lose thier minds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Gennie wrote:
    You have to be choosy where you use SNB. With a 1min 30 sec CD you cant just be throwing it on anything. You have to play with it tactically, do you wipe the alpha strike buffs on an escort? Or save it for the cruiser with the 4 RSPs? Maybe there is a sci vessel with FBP running and the escorts cant punch the shields, there is a good use of SNB.

    A lot of things can happen in 1 minute and 30 seconds, 90% of the people I see complaining about it have no idea how it works in context. They just read, strip buffs and elongates cooldowns, and lose thier minds.

    1 min 30 is nothing of a cooldown compared to even 50% of the other officer abilities out there that are .000001% as powerful as SNB is. I have a RA5 sci myself, had it for quite some time. Let me give another hint, you complain about the cooldown on SNB, well answer these: what BoFF power pool does PO reside? What does PO do and how much? Why does SNB still not have an actual counter?

    Add that to the fact there are a large number (and growing rapidly due to the change) of full time/only sci players. Therefore, it becomes a very spammable ability that will fly back and forth, and anyone who is left not playing sci, will be left in the dust.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I like the new SNB. Its a useful and tactical ability, without being overpowered. The extra cooldown it provides is unneeded however, the ability would be fine if it would just strip the buffs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Seriously people. Too much complaining on the forums and not enough game playing time under your belts. The change is fine. This patch is great!!

    I also second the notion not to listen to anything Ayupan says. I have yet to read anything helpful.

    And for the record because of the changes to Photonic Officer SNB is not nearly as "Spamable" as you claim it to be. ANother good change for the game. SNB is not a game breaker skill. L2P people! :D

    SNB was not a game breaker before and its not now. Lack of team work and supporting our fellow ships is what is game breaking. OR just plain old lack of skill.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    HyenaZERO wrote: »
    Or by having multiple flavors of defense to work with.

    Defense is also a buff, so you go and stack your buffs, and your up to 6 then BANG, someone hits you with SNB and they all gone!

    I know, me and my team went against a 5v5, they had a cruiser 5 stackable buffs, he got owned under 5 seconds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    WarPanda wrote: »
    I also second the notion not to listen to anything Ayupan says. I have yet to read anything helpful.


    Ayupan is on some sort of anti-1.1 forum crusade. Not sure why.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    LordTareq wrote: »
    Ayupan is on some sort of anti-1.1 forum crusade. Not sure why.

    I like it when people keep saying the same thing over and over. "The counter to SNB is teamwork gents, yes teamwork. Work together and you will counter that aweful ability that strips buffs in a buff based game".

    Name 1 other ability in game that can only be countered by teamwork.

    Interesting. Well how about we exchange SNB with FBP. Make SNB a tiered ability in science BoFF (increase in tier only changes cooldown debuff), and make FBP a sci officer only skill. That way everyone can throw the game-breaking beam around without having to switch chars/ create new toons.


    I am on an anti-1.1 crusade, but not for all of it. I like what was done with VM, even though it was not needed. If SNB was fixed CORRECTLY than old VM would be just fine.

    If the devs actually stood by their word of a 100% reflect cap on FBP, I would not have an issue with it.

    The new SNB, let me use a different analogy;
    Say there is this MMO, mostly combat, and ALL success in that game is based on drinking tea (before and during combat). Well the devs for that game just gave one of the classes only an ability to steal everyones tea, and to add to that increase the time it takes for them to get more tea.

    That is the opposite of balance, that is game-breaking, that is a sign of an MMO killer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Complete debuff is IMO a crazy idea. I can't think of a single MMO that has such an imbalanced ability. Not cool. Also not cool it has no hard counter. I do agree that there should be something against people who throw in all the bufffs at the same time but this implementation is bad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Defense is also a buff, so you go and stack your buffs, and your up to 6 then BANG, someone hits you with SNB and they all gone!

    I know, me and my team went against a 5v5, they had a cruiser 5 stackable buffs, he got owned under 5 seconds.
    I'm glad. Hopefully he will learn to keep something in reserve.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Blenda wrote:
    I'm glad. Hopefully he will learn to keep something in reserve.

    In a game based on " go buffed or go home", with your answer, would give me the ability to make a very educated guess to say your a sci only player.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I've used it and had it used on me. It IS not a big deal. Don't run 7 buffs at once and you won't care either. They strip your rsp... use hazard emiters or polarized hull. They take your alpha... keep your beta or omega until they hit it. I am fine with it the way it is now. I can use it to strip an alpha strike or hit an RSP chainer now... however in the next little bit people will adapt. Don't try and run with all you buffs stacked. Stagger them wisely and if you get hit with a SNB no one has pulled down your pants. The new SNB is powerful but not crazy. I like the challange. Since the patch I have tried out tons of combos I would never have even thought of before.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Husanak wrote: »
    I've used it and had it used on me. It IS not a big deal. Don't run 7 buffs at once and you won't care either. They strip your rsp... use hazard emiters or polarized hull. They take your alpha... keep your beta or omega until they hit it. I am fine with it the way it is now. I can use it to strip an alpha strike or hit an RSP chainer now... however in the next little bit people will adapt. Don't try and run with all you buffs stacked. Stagger them wisely and if you get hit with a SNB no one has pulled down your pants. The new SNB is powerful but not crazy. I like the challange. Since the patch I have tried out tons of combos I would never have even thought of before.

    In a BUFF BASED GAME, staggering buffs, for some classes is like cutting off their legs. Certain off types/ship types are required to pre/load a bunch of buffs to succeed, and considering you admitted to being a SNBer yourself, I do not take the words "It is not a big deal", or "It is fine the way it is", or " It doesn't need a nerf" with even a grain of salt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    well you know what Ayupan I play both a Sci/Sci and a tac/escort as a matter of fact the tac escort is at RA 5 and the new SNB is not a big deal as so many people have said, learn to stagger your buffs real fraking simple so you can't RSP chain anymore or run Attack Pattern Alpha and Beta at the same time.

    For frak sake every post I have read from you is a whine. Does us all a favor ad cancel your account if that is all your going to do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'll just keep saying what I've been saying a while.

    Remove VM, SNB, FBP. PvP would have been a much happier experience LONG ago. Get rid of them and we wouldn't be having these stupid discussions on OP abilities (even though 2 of 3 have changed).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Lirethion wrote: »
    well you know what Ayupan I play both a Sci/Sci and a tac/escort as a matter of fact the tac escort is at RA 5 and the new SNB is not a big deal as so many people have said, learn to stagger your buffs real fraking simple so you can't RSP chain anymore or run Attack Pattern Alpha and Beta at the same time.

    For frak sake every post I have read from you is a whine. Does us all a favor ad cancel your account if that is all your going to do.

    A. Only a child would think what I am doing is whining. You proved that right there.

    B. With the attitude displayed in that post alone, the odds of you actually having or even playing a tac/escort at RA5 are slim to none. So rinse and repeat.

    C. You seem to think every class/ship type out there can RSP chain, this is further proof to A, as well as B. So perhaps instead of worrying so much about what I am posting, you should be getting more in game experience. Clearly you need it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Husanak wrote: »
    I've used it and had it used on me. It IS not a big deal. Don't run 7 buffs at once and you won't care either. They strip your rsp... use hazard emiters or polarized hull. They take your alpha... keep your beta or omega until they hit it. I am fine with it the way it is now. I can use it to strip an alpha strike or hit an RSP chainer now... however in the next little bit people will adapt. Don't try and run with all you buffs stacked. Stagger them wisely and if you get hit with a SNB no one has pulled down your pants. The new SNB is powerful but not crazy. I like the challange. Since the patch I have tried out tons of combos I would never have even thought of before.
    It's not always practical to stagger your buffs.

    If other players are taking a beating I have ES, ET, and HE to save them. I already need to stagger those abilities a bit to spread healing around.

    If I start taking a beating I have RSP, EPtS, RSF, ET, and HE to save myself. Of those, RSF and EPtS are the only ones unlikely to be on cooldown from supporting others. It's not unusual for me to throw out ES and ET on an escort and suddenly have the fire shifted to me. When that happens, I'm pretty much screwed if I lose my defensive buffs.

    I already need to stagger my buffs, both those I use on myself and on others, to be able to keep applying heals and resistances consistently enough to keep me or my heal-target alive.

    Basically, there is no counter a captain can use to SNB removing their own defensive buffs. You might have a different defense using a different system ready, but usually there is already a need to stagger defenses, so losing part of the rotation is crippling. It's not something one person can counter reliably.

    But like others have said, the counter is teamwork. If your team is stingy with their buffs, you're a goner. If your team hits you with whatever defenses they have, even if they are only ensign and LT-level and untalented with no supporting consoles, you have a good chance of surviving until a more powerful buff comes off cooldown.

    You can't just count on the healers saving you, because their healing and buff rotation is certain to be jammed up already, and if their buffs get wiped off of you then it will probably be 5 seconds before they have something else to give. Every player needs to be support if any player expects to win.

    Add in that on the alpha-strike, many teams are stacking science officers so that several players are getting hit with SNB at about the same time to start a match, meaning that many of the primary defenses going to be lost.

    The thing that makes SNB lethal is that most players avoid supporting the team whenever possible. People are allergic to healing for whatever reason.

    I would actually kind of like the new SNB, if ships weren't so fragile. Without defensive buffs, any ship explodes in 5 seconds when attacked by an escort or BoP. Even a 2 second gap without defensive buffs can be enough to vaporize a cruiser. The pace of combat in general needs to be slowed down, enough that taking 4 or 5 seconds of fire without defensive buffs is not game-ending. If ships and shields were generally sturdier, getting buffs wiped off wouldn't be OP at all.

    Of course if ships were sturdier, then the changes to FBP, SNB, and VM would have been less necessary to begin with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ayupan wrote:
    A. Only a child would think what I am doing is whining. You proved that right there.

    B. With the attitude displayed in that post alone, the odds of you actually having or even playing a tac/escort at RA5 are slim to none. So rinse and repeat.

    C. You seem to think every class/ship type out there can RSP chain, this is further proof to A, as well as B. So perhaps instead of worrying so much about what I am posting, you should be getting more in game experience. Clearly you need it.

    no, half the forums KNOWS your whining, your the laughing stock of organizepvp (yes, people on there laugh at you), and no one takes you seriously anymore.

    quit while you behind.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ayupan wrote:
    A. Only a child would think what I am doing is whining. You proved that right there.

    All you ever do is whine, your a failure at this game; as well as everyone who blows off with the "exploits."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ayupan wrote:
    In a BUFF BASED GAME, staggering buffs, for some classes is like cutting off their legs. Certain off types/ship types are required to pre/load a bunch of buffs to succeed, and considering you admitted to being a SNBer yourself, I do not take the words "It is not a big deal", or "It is fine the way it is", or " It doesn't need a nerf" with even a grain of salt.

    I am a Sci/Sci and I do have a Tac/Escort as well. I know now I can't be 100% sure I'm going to be able to "power up" and blast away on the tac as much as before. Honestly though SNB is a fairly long cool down with a narrow firing arch.... I have been smoked in my sci by escorts I have hit with SNB... just not in 3 seconds. With out help I don't always have the firepower in the sci to close the deal. Pop an evasive or an engine battary and chances are your all over me. The change has lead to a lot of fun drawn out engagments sometimes I come out on top sometimes not so much, they have all been a lot funner then the 3 second alpha strike death... OR kill. Honestly I almost stopped playing not because I died to much, it was just to easy to stack up a bunch of buffs and lay waste.

    I see the point your making about the escort class needing the buffs due to the glass cannon effect. I won't mind seeing the SNB cool down increased (3 min could work) or the escort given a bit more sheild love, or a standard hull buff (I mean they are the war ship right).

    A little off the SNB thing... I was playing with Tykens III today... I can get my sci ship to hit it for -120 power... with TSS right after it has been very deadly.... I think I see this being the new VM.
    Running sub 50 wep power with high aux it dosn't take much firepower to cave in a hull (I stopped 2 ships today with one they both stopped low eng power I guess and the TSS sheilds dropped the shileds all together on one) . I'll bet this ones the next nerf cry.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    no, half the forums KNOWS your whining, your the laughing stock of organizepvp (yes, people on there laugh at you), and no one takes you seriously anymore.

    quit while you behind.

    Well this "half the forums" you speak of must be a figment of your imagination because I doubt half the forums are a child, like you. I wouldn't insult such a large portion of the community like that if I were you, shows psychological issues.

    Of Course, if what you and your fleet do is called organized PVP, than as a PVPer from a grocery list of MMOs, I thank you for the compliment. It's hard enough being in the same game as a fleet so horrible. Throwing away the denial is the first step hint hint, the next would be going legit.

    No one, as in your fleet and supporters, of course do not take me seriously, they don't even take the rules, EULA, etc seriously. You, and they just take advantage of bugs, seek new ones to take advantage of as well, like its a job. Another sign of psychological issues.
    Either way, good luck, adding you to the /ignore child "scrub" list. lmao

    Aelife wrote:
    This message is hidden because Aelife is in a known exploiter fleet.

    ================================================================================

    Husanak wrote:
    I am a Sci/Sci and I do have a Tac/Escort as well. I know now I can't be 100% sure I'm going to be able to "power up" and blast away on the tac as much as before. Honestly though SNB is a fairly long cool down with a narrow firing arch.... I have been smoked in my sci by escorts I have hit with SNB... just not in 3 seconds. With out help I don't always have the firepower in the sci to close the deal. Pop an evasive or an engine battary and chances are your all over me. The change has lead to a lot of fun drawn out engagments sometimes I come out on top sometimes not so much, they have all been a lot funner then the 3 second alpha strike death... OR kill. Honestly I almost stopped playing not because I died to much, it was just to easy to stack up a bunch of buffs and lay waste.

    I see the point your making about the escort class needing the buffs due to the glass cannon effect. I won't mind seeing the SNB cool down increased (3 min could work) or the escort given a bit more sheild love, or a standard hull buff (I mean they are the war ship right).

    A little off the SNB thing... I was playing with Tykens III today... I can get my sci ship to hit it for -120 power... with TSS right after it has been very deadly.... I think I see this being the new VM.
    Running sub 50 wep power with high aux it dosn't take much firepower to cave in a hull (I stopped 2 ships today with one they both stopped low eng power I guess and the TSS sheilds dropped the shileds all together on one) . I'll bet this ones the next nerf cry.

    An increase to it's cooldown would be a small gesture of balance, however escorts do not need a buff to hull or shields, they do need their original and supposed to be MAIN form of survivability working. That is Defense. Escorts are supposed to be paper thin and when they do get hit it hurts em bad. But they should be HARD to hit. You can relate it to a rogue of other MMOs, and the dodge ability if you want.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    inktomi19d wrote: »
    You can't just count on the healers saving you, because their healing and buff rotation is certain to be jammed up already, and if their buffs get wiped off of you then it will probably be 5 seconds before they have something else to give. Every player needs to be support if any player expects to win.

    Hopefuly more people start to support each other. With the changes to VM and SNB I am A LOT more willing to through out the heals now. I also dropped my second sci team and trained Hazard Emiters 3 to replace it... I find myself using it on team mates much more after the changes. Healing over 20000 points over 30 seconds is a life saver for the escorts I play with.
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