who here is a developer or knows anything about coding, or videogame/server maintance? anybody?
and no, i don't mean the sto developers or the gms, we already know they are... i mean who here, out of the player basis, has any idea about the energy it takes to create and maintain an mmorpg?
anybody?
I have some experience with C/C++, Unix Server Administration, and various web languages like php, perl, java. I've done contract work developing websites for launch (essentially brought in to a few products so they finish by launch - very "fly by the seat of my pants" type stuff).
As for game-specific development, not really. Unless you count the games I'd do as assignments in C++ or Java classes. I've gotten as far as 2D game development but abruptly switched interests: dropping out of college and into shooting things with my M-16 for a few years.
Programming is so complex nowadays that it's hard to "spec" on both the business and game ends of the house, or even just creating a game from scratch.
Graphics programming alone can require teams of people to write and develop the tech necessary today (which is why many companies license engines - instead of working hard to develop their own tech like Cryptic)
I also was involved in the development of one of the biggest selling PC games of all time for about 7 years but you said MMORPG which is very specific.
I run my own servers in Paris. I understand coding but you did not specify which kind of code.
I think I have a good understanding of what it takes to make and maintain these games to be honest, but I most likely don't fit your criteria.
Ever programmed and debugged a tic-tac-toe game? that is a pain in the butt. I imagine an MMO would be like that times a hundred-billion.
try coding a WoW emulator and maintaining a server of 100 ppl >_>;, it's insane especially when you're the only gm, and you have to juggle your real job >_<
that's how i learned to code, thru a wow emulator =/ no offical training or schooling, i learned by messing up code and attempting to fix it =/
it was a long annoying proccess, and i'm still learning but it's fun =D
in any case, out of like 100k people there is like what 10 people who understand that all these complaining/demands that most of the player base does takes atleast a week to make a change and that the game devs are fully aware of the problems/ changes and are working on them so we ive them the time to do it....
and is it a coincidence that those same 10 people don't complain very much, if at all, about anything in game as far as coding or patches. =/
just goes to show how little the general player basis is aware of how much effort it takes do make updates/patches =/ and the nerve they have to complain about it Dx, ARGH!!! ungratfuls =.=
I also was involved in the development of one of the biggest selling PC games of all time for about 7 years but you said MMORPG which is very specific.
I run my own servers in Paris. I understand coding but you did not specify which kind of code.
I think I have a good understanding of what it takes to make and maintain these games to be honest, but I most likely don't fit your criteria.
Programmers are in a race with the Universe to create bigger and better idiot-proof programs, while the Universe is trying to create bigger and better idiots. So far the Universe is winning.
(Rich Cook)
And as a professional security programmer, I have enough Upper Division College Math to know that the vast majority of professional programmers would'nt be able to work on, (or even understand...) the real-time graphics engine that the STO game usees...
try coding a WoW emulator and maintaining a server of 100 ppl >_>;, it's insane especially when you're the only gm, and you have to juggle your real job >_<
I'd consider that piece of cake. Well, apart from the GM thing. I used to let the players pick GM's and play it until it broke and then I'd update to the next version of the emu.
And as a professional security programmer, I have enough Upper Division College Math to know that the vast majority of professional programmers would'nt be able to work on, (or even understand...) the real-time graphics engine that the STO game usees...
Once a game engine is made you don't have to be a coder to create content for it. It's a pretty standard cut and paste job with a scripting language needed to make story specific moments trigger. It's not that hard at all.
The coders making the engines and the artists modelling and texturing for it have the hard work.
I thought I wanted to make video games, because I enjoy playing them.
Then I went through 3 years of education, and found out that it's a lot like writing a book.
It takes someone potentially years to write a book, and someone hours to read it.
In an MMO environment, that can mean a collective team can work for weeks to make something that people might run through in about 4 hours. (Read: TFs)
I suddenly decided I liked playing games a lot more, and stopped listening to that little voice in my head that kept saying 'this game is fun, but wouldn't it be fun if...' and I think I am better off this way.
So to answer your question, no, I am not a game programmer.
Once a game engine is made you don't have to be a coder to create content for it. It's a pretty standard cut and paste job with a scripting language needed to make story specific moments trigger. It's not that hard at all.
The coders making the engines and the artists modelling and texturing for it have the hard work.
But you have the code maintenance issue... what happens when someone reports an issue with the 'textures' engine??? Or a report of graphics card driver crash repeatedly occurring...
I also was involved in the development of one of the biggest selling PC games of all time for about 7 years but you said MMORPG which is very specific.
I run my own servers in Paris. I understand coding but you did not specify which kind of code.
I think I have a good understanding of what it takes to make and maintain these games to be honest, but I most likely don't fit your criteria.
i ment to keep it open =3, any coding and mmorpg running is fine =3
But you have the code maintenance issue... what happens when someone reports an issue with the 'textures' engine??? Or a report of graphics card driver crash repeatedly occurring...
Well the idea is that most of that stuff is dealt with before the engine goes live. It's why Bioware are still using the Aurora engine and many companies pay a licence to use the Unreal engine. Because they are proven and they work. It's only proprietary engines with small development support that tend to throw up problems. But yes of course, all live code needs support and maintenance and as such people are employed for that purpose.
I had a game published in 1987 (on the CBM64), which probably means I don't qualify,
but then I managed to fit the game world into 8k of RAM (100 different rooms - that 8k held each individual room description), whereas you youngsters couldn't fit a toon hairstyle into that these days, so who's the better coder? (Arf, falls off barstool whilst trying to grab zimmer frame)
n any case, like i said previously, out of like 100k people there is like what 10 people who understand that all these complaining/demands that most of the player base does takes atleast a week to make a change and that the game devs are fully aware of the problems/ changes and are working on them so we ive them the time to do it....
and is it a coincidence that those same 10 people don't complain very much, if at all, about anything in game as far as coding or patches. =/
just goes to show how little the general player basis is aware of how much effort it takes do make updates/patches =/ and the nerve they have to complain about it Dx, ARGH!!! ungratfuls =.=
atleast now i can yell at whiny people who want all these changes that they have no idea what they are asking for and have no idea the ammount of effort/time/coding involved in meeting their demands...
Well the idea is that most of that stuff is dealt with before the engine goes live. It's why Bioware are still using the Aurora engine and many companies pay a licence to use the Unreal engine. Because they are proven and they work. It's only proprietary engines with small development support that tend to throw up problems. But yes of course, all live code needs support and maintenance and as such people are employed for that purpose.
Which does remind me of a little bit of gaming history. When the half-life engine was released for commercial sale, the market was flooded with hordes of wanna-be FPS games, most of which quickly failed, because the game designers/programmers/developers didn't comprehend the strengths and limitations of the graphics engine, and couldn't under understand how to get the best out of the IP that they purchased...
If that's a serious question.. yes, it's a coincidence.
no, it was a rethorical over-statement of the ovious for the idiot (not you XD ) who happens to wander in and doesn't understand the scarasm without it being slapped in their face like an over sized trout! =o (yes, i'm feeling violent today)
who here is a developer or knows anything about coding, or videogame/server maintance? anybody?
and no, i don't mean the sto developers or the gms, we already know they are... i mean who here, out of the player basis, has any idea about the energy it takes to create and maintain an mmorpg?
anybody?
Me. But irrelevant really. Since I'm not working on this game.
But it makes me very understanding of what its like to balance working on a game and keep it fun while accomodating the often odd demands of both the parent company and the owners of the IP you're licencing.
Me. But irrelevant really. Since I'm not working on this game.
But it makes me very understanding of what its like to balance working on a game and keep it fun while accomodating the often odd demands of both the parent company and the owners of the IP you're licencing.
the green part makes it relevant.....the point isn't who can code "this" game, the point is who can under stand what this games developers have to go thru on a daily basis....=o
the green part makes it relevant.....the point isn't who can code "this" game, the point is who can under stand what this games developers have to go thru on a daily basis....=o
I would not at all be surprised to see a non-Cryptic developer complaining about game issues, especially if they've worked in the industry for 15+ years, which is plenty of time to become familiar with the uglier side of game development.
Every company and every game has its issues. Every team and every developer is expected to do their best in dealing with them. Just because someone "understands what it's like" doesn't mean they're going to turn a blind eye whenever they see a situation that stinks.
If anything, other developers are all too aware when smoke is being blown up the consumer's rear. I'm not saying that's the case here, just making a point as to how complaints can be perfectly valid.
Comments
My knowledge of game development is academic, but from that I can tell you it is not easy.
As for game-specific development, not really. Unless you count the games I'd do as assignments in C++ or Java classes. I've gotten as far as 2D game development but abruptly switched interests: dropping out of college and into shooting things with my M-16 for a few years.
Programming is so complex nowadays that it's hard to "spec" on both the business and game ends of the house, or even just creating a game from scratch.
Graphics programming alone can require teams of people to write and develop the tech necessary today (which is why many companies license engines - instead of working hard to develop their own tech like Cryptic)
SQL Queries are my favorite....
Batch Scripts are always a favorite.
AS400 developing if you really want to get bored...
I also do the occasional VBS and POWERSHELL on my time off...
But in all seriousness...
I started with Pascal and Perl and have moved onto mostly SQL for work...
As you can tell by the funny SQL error I got the other day at work...
(Grandma's Boy- Movie about game testers, and developers)
I also was involved in the development of one of the biggest selling PC games of all time for about 7 years but you said MMORPG which is very specific.
I run my own servers in Paris. I understand coding but you did not specify which kind of code.
I think I have a good understanding of what it takes to make and maintain these games to be honest, but I most likely don't fit your criteria.
were you the intern fetching coffee and buns?
Gwbasic then Pascal here, but I started losing interest after those, moved on to hardware/OS support(minus Macs)
try coding a WoW emulator and maintaining a server of 100 ppl >_>;, it's insane especially when you're the only gm, and you have to juggle your real job >_<
that's how i learned to code, thru a wow emulator =/ no offical training or schooling, i learned by messing up code and attempting to fix it =/
it was a long annoying proccess, and i'm still learning but it's fun =D
in any case, out of like 100k people there is like what 10 people who understand that all these complaining/demands that most of the player base does takes atleast a week to make a change and that the game devs are fully aware of the problems/ changes and are working on them so we ive them the time to do it....
and is it a coincidence that those same 10 people don't complain very much, if at all, about anything in game as far as coding or patches. =/
just goes to show how little the general player basis is aware of how much effort it takes do make updates/patches =/ and the nerve they have to complain about it Dx, ARGH!!! ungratfuls =.=
Programmers are in a race with the Universe to create bigger and better idiot-proof programs, while the Universe is trying to create bigger and better idiots. So far the Universe is winning.
(Rich Cook)
Yes, Tic -Tac Toe with a 'learning' system of sorts and then a more fun one based on Terrahawks!
And some simple adventure games that used database for mapping rooms / content etc and had a very (very,very) simple 'parser'.
So I guess an MMO would be somewhat of a nightmare, but then I aint paid to make one!
So no not a developer as such!
The modern stuff C, C#, Java, C++, VB .NET, VB (4,5,6), ASP .NET, SQL, Windows forms, WPF
Then there is the antiques:
Basic, COBOL, FORTRAN, Pascal, 360/370 assembly, 8086 assembly, 6502 assembly
I have been around computers for a while.
I could go on but this is making me feel old.
I'd consider that piece of cake. Well, apart from the GM thing. I used to let the players pick GM's and play it until it broke and then I'd update to the next version of the emu.
Once a game engine is made you don't have to be a coder to create content for it. It's a pretty standard cut and paste job with a scripting language needed to make story specific moments trigger. It's not that hard at all.
The coders making the engines and the artists modelling and texturing for it have the hard work.
Then I went through 3 years of education, and found out that it's a lot like writing a book.
It takes someone potentially years to write a book, and someone hours to read it.
In an MMO environment, that can mean a collective team can work for weeks to make something that people might run through in about 4 hours. (Read: TFs)
I suddenly decided I liked playing games a lot more, and stopped listening to that little voice in my head that kept saying 'this game is fun, but wouldn't it be fun if...' and I think I am better off this way.
So to answer your question, no, I am not a game programmer.
i ment to keep it open =3, any coding and mmorpg running is fine =3
Well the idea is that most of that stuff is dealt with before the engine goes live. It's why Bioware are still using the Aurora engine and many companies pay a licence to use the Unreal engine. Because they are proven and they work. It's only proprietary engines with small development support that tend to throw up problems. But yes of course, all live code needs support and maintenance and as such people are employed for that purpose.
but then I managed to fit the game world into 8k of RAM (100 different rooms - that 8k held each individual room description), whereas you youngsters couldn't fit a toon hairstyle into that these days, so who's the better coder? (Arf, falls off barstool whilst trying to grab zimmer frame)
and is it a coincidence that those same 10 people don't complain very much, if at all, about anything in game as far as coding or patches. =/
just goes to show how little the general player basis is aware of how much effort it takes do make updates/patches =/ and the nerve they have to complain about it Dx, ARGH!!! ungratfuls =.=
atleast now i can yell at whiny people who want all these changes that they have no idea what they are asking for and have no idea the ammount of effort/time/coding involved in meeting their demands...
If that's a serious question.. yes, it's a coincidence.
no, it was a rethorical over-statement of the ovious for the idiot (not you XD ) who happens to wander in and doesn't understand the scarasm without it being slapped in their face like an over sized trout! =o (yes, i'm feeling violent today)
Me. But irrelevant really. Since I'm not working on this game.
But it makes me very understanding of what its like to balance working on a game and keep it fun while accomodating the often odd demands of both the parent company and the owners of the IP you're licencing.
the green part makes it relevant.....the point isn't who can code "this" game, the point is who can under stand what this games developers have to go thru on a daily basis....=o
I would not at all be surprised to see a non-Cryptic developer complaining about game issues, especially if they've worked in the industry for 15+ years, which is plenty of time to become familiar with the uglier side of game development.
Every company and every game has its issues. Every team and every developer is expected to do their best in dealing with them. Just because someone "understands what it's like" doesn't mean they're going to turn a blind eye whenever they see a situation that stinks.
If anything, other developers are all too aware when smoke is being blown up the consumer's rear. I'm not saying that's the case here, just making a point as to how complaints can be perfectly valid.