2. Play Star Trek Final Unity, Then incorporate ship maneuverability (360 vertical /horizontal), tactics as in evasive maneuvers etc. and photon spread, shielding, make the helm, science stations accessible by clicking on the desired console. put all hails on view screen (ship to ship chat with a still of the opposing Captain on there bridge). allow the player to select alert status from tactical. Red alert with still auto activate on attack or when you target a hostile ship, enable an auto tactical, Engineer.
3. Play Star Trek : Judgment Rites, Then incorporate the bridge functionality, updated to current scale, ship control form bridge, click on bridge officers for advice/ analysis.
4. Play Star Trek Bridge Commander (NON DOS) WIN95), let the player give orders to crew members and experience the game from the captains perspective/(optional as in all other games). Incorporate this type of in space battle maneuverability, this game should have been the strongest blueprint or idea for STO on a multi player level.
You can't just throw together an Iconic series such as Star Trek with an old engine, It might be time to rebuild, from the beginning and brain storming here on the forums we expect nothing less than the ultimate Star Trek Experience. FOR GOD SAKE ADD A TOS BRIDGE ALREADY!
5. Scotty DON'T Tell me it can't be done, or you don't have the power, or you can't change the laws of physics or engines.....The bar has been raised Meet the challenge, or all will say STO had such great potential but CRYPTIC blew it. Let us go to engineering, sickbay, ten forward, transporter room, ready room, captains quarters,shuttle bay, interact with some of our silent mindless button tapping crew.
***SIDE NOTE** The current controls are similar to Star Trek: Final Unity when you not on / looking at the bridge, They are good but far from there potential.
***YES I would accept a place / Leadership on the STO player experience panel (PEP) formally know and hated as The STO Advisory Council*** YES I NAMED IT!
If you do any of this please add open pvp to all sectors / systems. My klingon is going to have a lot of fun blowing up people trying to use the 'functional bridge model.'
before you send all your devs to play other games, get the important things fixed on your own one. However, watching some Star Trek episodes in the breaks would probably not be too bad.
I think implementing all of the above (within reason and practicality) while still keeping the current way of contacting battles is much better.
I have to say though, combat is designed with you being able to have an exact fix of all available contacts around you, which might be a bit problematic with just using the minimap.
The engine isn't the big factor in what prevents any of that and I wish people would stop saying that a new engine was needed. The engine handles a lot of complex networking and didn't need to be built from scratch.
The existing engine can be retrofitted to do any of these things.
They didn't have time to retrofit it for some of these things, which would have taken less time than building a new engine. They also made conscious choices not to in some cases. Not adding full 360 degree movement was a deliberate and conscious choice and is not something they would have done with an engine from scratch and is not something they are interested in doing now. They may add up and down thrusters which drain power from your systems and they may up the pitch limit but they want space combat to be on a plane because it reflects the model ships on strings aspect of classic Star Trek.
I completely agree with the OP about using the bridge design from Star Trek: Judgment Rites.
(the same was used in the precursor, Star Trek: 25th Anniversary)
there was excellent immersion in both those games, simply by setting the camera behind the captain's chair, giving you an excellent view of the bridge and all your officers, while you could control the ship and fight space battles on the main view screen. As I recall, you could press the "v" button to get a full screen view (much like we have in STO now).
I liked the expanded view sometimes. But most of the time I played from the bridge view. It may have reduced the viewable size of the space battle but it REALLY made you feel like you were right there, on board the Enterprise.
I don't think it would take a major overhaul to follow the Star Trek: Judgment Rights bridge design for Star Trek Online. Judgment Rites may be an older game, but it got that design aspect down perfectly.
Just putting a first person space view on the view screen would be amazing.
You know........as far as STO goes, probably the best game to play would be Klingon Academy, as so far that game has the best combat system of any Star Trek game that I have played to date (in my opinion that is, I know somebody is bound to disagree with me), as well as an outstanding way of understanding true Klingon Honor.
The game's combat had full movement, subsystem targeting, the "tall ships" feel that Cryptic is/has been going for, similar camera options as STO, crew, etc. I know people love Bridge Commander for its bridge perspective, but when I think of Star Trek combat, I think to Klingon Academy as having set the standard.....
Hey, OP, you do know that doing what you suggest would be a violation of copyright law, right?
No it would not be copyright infringement the copy right only lasts so long, and Cryptic is an authorized Star Trek Publisher. I am not saying copy the games, I am saying look at the Star Trek Experience in each and implement the best concepts into STO, thus giving the ultimate Star Trek Experience
I completely agree with the OP about using the bridge design from Star Trek: Judgment Rites.
(the same was used in the precursor, Star Trek: 25th Anniversary)
there was excellent immersion in both those games, simply by setting the camera behind the captain's chair, giving you an excellent view of the bridge and all your officers, while you could control the ship and fight space battles on the main view screen. As I recall, you could press the "v" button to get a full screen view (much like we have in STO now).
I liked the expanded view sometimes. But most of the time I played from the bridge view. It may have reduced the viewable size of the space battle but it REALLY made you feel like you were right there, on board the Enterprise.
I don't think it would take a major overhaul to follow the Star Trek: Judgment Rights bridge design for Star Trek Online. Judgment Rites may be an older game, but it got that design aspect down perfectly.
Just putting a first person space view on the view screen would be amazing.
No it would not be copyright infringement the copy right only lasts so long, and Cryptic is an authorized Star Trek Publisher. I am not saying copy the games, I am saying look at the Star Trek Experience in each and implement the best concepts into STO, thus giving the ultimate Star Trek Experience
You're thinking of patents, copyright protection lasts as long as a person/group owns a given name or icon.
While it would be very interesting to try and create a game that combines the "best" traits of all Trek games before STO, there is a quality of making something fresh as Cryptic is trying to do, and if they keep at it then given time we'll all end up happy.:cool:
2. Play Star Trek Final Unity, Then incorporate ship maneuverability (360 vertical /horizontal), tactics as in evasive maneuvers etc. and photon spread, shielding, make the helm, science stations accessible by clicking on the desired console. put all hails on view screen (ship to ship chat with a still of the opposing Captain on there bridge). allow the player to select alert status from tactical. Red alert with still auto activate on attack or when you target a hostile ship, enable an auto tactical, Engineer.
3. Play Star Trek : Judgment Rites, Then incorporate the bridge functionality, updated to current scale, ship control form bridge, click on bridge officers for advice/ analysis.
4. Play Star Trek Bridge Commander (NON DOS) WIN95), let the player give orders to crew members and experience the game from the captains perspective/(optional as in all other games). Incorporate this type of in space battle maneuverability, this game should have been the strongest blueprint or idea for STO on a multi player level.
You can't just throw together an Iconic series such as Star Trek with an old engine, It might be time to rebuild, from the beginning and brain storming here on the forums we expect nothing less than the ultimate Star Trek Experience. FOR GOD SAKE ADD A TOS BRIDGE ALREADY!
5. Scotty DON'T Tell me it can't be done, or you don't have the power, or you can't change the laws of physics or engines.....The bar has been raised Meet the challenge, or all will say STO had such great potential but CRYPTIC blew it. Let us go to engineering, sickbay, ten forward, transporter room, ready room, captains quarters,shuttle bay, interact with some of our silent mindless button tapping crew.
***SIDE NOTE** The current controls are similar to Star Trek: Final Unity when you not on / looking at the bridge, They are good but far from there potential.
***YES I would accept a place / Leadership on the STO player experience panel (PEP) formally know and hated as The STO Advisory Council*** YES I NAMED IT!
oh i would be so happy if those things really got in the game...but you forgot something...THE SECTOR SHOE BOX...trash it make the universe as it should be...BIG...not in a bunch of shoe boxes glued together...
But seriously...if those changes were made...i would become a Cryptic suporter...and beleive me this is a compliment comming from me...lol:D
You're thinking of patents, copyright protection lasts as long as a person/group owns a given name or icon.
While it would be very interesting to try and create a game that combines the "best" traits of all Trek games before STO, there is a quality of making something fresh as Cryptic is trying to do, and if they keep at it then given time we'll all end up happy.:cool:
You are correct, thank you for pointing out my error. Paramount owns the rights to the Star Trek concepts, the games copyrights only protect storyline and game specifics
1. Bridge combat is unwieldy in this type of setting. Using the viewscreen limits the situational awareness of the player a great deal. Someone not using the bridge view would decimate a player who was using it very quickly.
2. Full 3D Star Trek Starship combat is also very unweildy and borderline unTrek like.
3. They are adding ship interiors, so I can't really comment on that till I know how it is implemented.
Something people should try to remember is this is supposed to be a Star Trek MMO not a Star Trek simulator.
1. Bridge combat is unwieldy in this type of setting. Using the viewscreen limits the situational awareness of the player a great deal. Someone not using the bridge view would decimate a player who was using it very quickly.
2. Full 3D Star Trek Starship combat is also very unweildy and borderline unTrek like.
3. They are adding ship interiors, so I can't really comment on that till I know how it is implemented.
Something people should try to remember is this is supposed to be a Star Trek MMO not a Star Trek simulator.
QFE, Thank you for saying this, so i don't have to.
Why is anyone even worried about the space combat? If any combat needs to be overhauled it would be the ground stuff. Its atrocious atm. You whine because not being on the bridge is not trek-like. But you don't see an issue with everyone taking 10 or so phaser shots to bring down?
No it would not be copyright infringement the copy right only lasts so long, and Cryptic is an authorized Star Trek Publisher. I am not saying copy the games, I am saying look at the Star Trek Experience in each and implement the best concepts into STO, thus giving the ultimate Star Trek Experience
Nothing has entered the public domain that was made after 1923. Beyond that, Cryptic's rights to Star Trek would probably enable them to justify buying or asking for copies of past Star Trek games but would still make downloading them illegally wrong in the eyes of the law.
I think you're making a huge assumption that they didn't play those games when they may have played them and consciously decided to do things differently in certain cases.
OP...read some of the most recent Engineer's Reports.....Bridge Functionality and Ship interiors are being worked on.
At the very least, hopefully, we get to do Sector Space travel from our bridge. As for combat, I doubt ww will, and if it is in the game....I would never personally use it.
Why is anyone even worried about the space combat? If any combat needs to be overhauled it would be the ground stuff. Its atrocious atm. You whine because not being on the bridge is not trek-like. But you don't see an issue with everyone taking 10 or so phaser shots to bring down?
That's because this is the 25th century and everyone has Borg-derived personal shields, something I understand CBS not only approved but really seemed to love as a concept. I suspect the idea of people taking "10 or so phaser shots to bring down" is probably going to be something you'll see more of in Trek beyond STO in the future.
That's because this is the 25th century and everyone has Borg-derived personal shields, something I understand CBS not only approved but really seemed to love as a concept. I suspect the idea of people taking "10 or so phaser shots to bring down" is probably going to be something you'll see more of in Trek beyond STO in the future.
True, but then why do the guys without a shield still take multiple shots? In all of the movies and shows ANYONE taking more than 1 shot to bring down (besides adapted borg) was very rare. So when some random thug in a jumpsuit takes 6 hits in the chest from my phaser rifle then punches me in the face and knocks me over, it kinda ruins the Trek feel.
IMO the ground combat should be slower and cover based. The average shielded soldier should be able to take 3 shots (2 on the shield, 1 on the body). Melee weapons should be insta-KOs since you couldn't just blind charge anymore. This would make it more trek-like.
Come up with whatever reasoning you want, 12 guys standing in a open hallway blasting the **** out of eachother over and over until the other side is dead is not Star Trek.
True, but then why do the guys without a shield still take multiple shots? In all of the movies and shows ANYONE taking more than 1 shot to bring down (besides adapted borg) was very rare. So when some random thug in a jumpsuit takes 6 hits in the chest from my phaser rifle then punches me in the face and knocks me over, it kinda ruins the Trek feel.
IMO the ground combat should be slower and cover based. The average shielded soldier should be able to take 3 shots (2 on the shield, 1 on the body). Melee weapons should be insta-KOs since you couldn't just blind charge anymore. This would make it more trek-like.
Come up with whatever reasoning you want, 12 guys standing in a open hallway blasting the **** out of eachother over and over until the other side is dead is not Star Trek.
In game, our phasers are set on stun and any disintegrations are the result of an overload/malfunction.
Want proof? A number of the NPCs in the Neutral Zone hub claim that they were the bar at the Treasure Trading Station and that the Starfleet officers they encountered used non-lethal force on them.
OP...read some of the most recent Engineer's Reports.....Bridge Functionality and Ship interiors are being worked on.
At the very least, hopefully, we get to do Sector Space travel from our bridge. As for combat, I doubt ww will, and if it is in the game....I would never personally use it.
I've no desire to run combat from the Bridge - Bridge Commander thoroughly burned that out of me - but being able to actually travel while in the interior would be extremely convenient.
I've no desire to run combat from the Bridge - Bridge Commander thoroughly burned that out of me - but being able to actually travel while in the interior would be extremely convenient.
The issue with that is that they intend sector space to be a social hub. Gozer addresses this in the latest Neutral Zone podcast. Sector Space is the one place they can force you to socialize and they don't want to give that up as the game itself is already less social than they'd prefer.
For them to consider this, I think you'd need a way to make the game fundamentally more passively social.
The issue with that is that they intend sector space to be a social hub. Gozer addresses this in the latest Neutral Zone podcast. Sector Space is the one place they can force you to socialize and they don't want to give that up as the game itself is already less social than they'd prefer.
For them to consider this, I think you'd need a way to make the game fundamentally more passively social.
Yeah... I'm still trying to figure out exactly what aspects of sector space are supposed to encourage that other than forcing people to move through the same space. And everyone I talk to frequently has Zone chat turned off like me.
I forget if it was you or someone else who posted the idea of making sector space actually resemble an astrometrics lab interface rather than looking like it does now but I think that would go a ways toward inducing people to interact more in sector space. Right now I feel like I and most other people are treating sector space more like rushing down a crowded sidewalk, trying to ignore the crowd while pinballing through it.
The issue with that is that they intend sector space to be a social hub. Gozer addresses this in the latest Neutral Zone podcast. Sector Space is the one place they can force you to socialize and they don't want to give that up as the game itself is already less social than they'd prefer.
For them to consider this, I think you'd need a way to make the game fundamentally more passively social.
Sector space is social?? Star Bases are social hubs, or at least they should be. Sector space is just a place to travel through. Cryptic needs to break from this concept of SS being a social hub, it makes no sense.
Besides, if I'm on my bridge, I should be able to pull up a sector space mini map if I wish. Problem solved for Gozer. They also need to include a player ship-to-ship hailing system. I see someone I want to talk to on my sector space mini map, I send them a hail. On their bridge they get a pop-up, Communications Officer: 'Sir, we are being hailed"....."Put it on screen"....Then they see the player captain and he/she fills out the chat window with text.
There are some very valid comments and suggestions posted recently and while I'd usually go to the effort of posting something constructive, in this case I think it's an utter waste of time. The short-falls in this game are not engine based, they are execution based.
The game falls utterly short of achieving any level of depth and playability. It is facile, completely linear and irredeemably shallow. It fails to achieve playability as a standalone MMO, let alone live up to any expectations of realising integrity in relation to ST. And none of this is damning, because it could be addressed. The killer is that it won't be addressed and that beyond some half-hearted cosmetic changes, the current state of the game is as good as its going to get.
This dismal state of affairs not only leaves a sour taste in the mouths of people who bought into the game, particularly those who (no doubt foolishly) opted life-time memberships -and sees yet another game fall into the rapidly filling discard-bin of poorly executed MMO's - but is a missed opportunity to realise and retain a long term dedicated/cult client base. Its also a depressing requiem for those few at Cryptic who tried and lobbied for something better, to no avail.
I'm the first to recognise the good aspects of the game, its just that the negative aspects are all pervasive - and going to stay that way. The saddest thing of all is that it didn't have to be brilliant, it just had to be adequate. And it didn't even achieve that.
Comments
If you do any of this please add open pvp to all sectors / systems. My klingon is going to have a lot of fun blowing up people trying to use the 'functional bridge model.'
Needless to say
/not signed
before you send all your devs to play other games, get the important things fixed on your own one. However, watching some Star Trek episodes in the breaks would probably not be too bad.
Thanks.
I have to say though, combat is designed with you being able to have an exact fix of all available contacts around you, which might be a bit problematic with just using the minimap.
The existing engine can be retrofitted to do any of these things.
They didn't have time to retrofit it for some of these things, which would have taken less time than building a new engine. They also made conscious choices not to in some cases. Not adding full 360 degree movement was a deliberate and conscious choice and is not something they would have done with an engine from scratch and is not something they are interested in doing now. They may add up and down thrusters which drain power from your systems and they may up the pitch limit but they want space combat to be on a plane because it reflects the model ships on strings aspect of classic Star Trek.
why re-invent the wheel?
(the same was used in the precursor, Star Trek: 25th Anniversary)
there was excellent immersion in both those games, simply by setting the camera behind the captain's chair, giving you an excellent view of the bridge and all your officers, while you could control the ship and fight space battles on the main view screen. As I recall, you could press the "v" button to get a full screen view (much like we have in STO now).
I liked the expanded view sometimes. But most of the time I played from the bridge view. It may have reduced the viewable size of the space battle but it REALLY made you feel like you were right there, on board the Enterprise.
I don't think it would take a major overhaul to follow the Star Trek: Judgment Rights bridge design for Star Trek Online. Judgment Rites may be an older game, but it got that design aspect down perfectly.
Just putting a first person space view on the view screen would be amazing.
here's an image:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s4yaF0W2Dis/SOE-ks4R0uI/AAAAAAAAIBw/Xcfy7xK4bnI/s400/star-trek-judgement-rites-pc-game-dosbox-1.JPG
The game's combat had full movement, subsystem targeting, the "tall ships" feel that Cryptic is/has been going for, similar camera options as STO, crew, etc. I know people love Bridge Commander for its bridge perspective, but when I think of Star Trek combat, I think to Klingon Academy as having set the standard.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4LR6Ev27FQ
then this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uSSsamD7p4
then for all those tarts out there who say 8472 would never go drink with the enemy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K1wPPYKwss&feature=related
the just for the fun of it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaiQbUJwLCo&feature=related
No it would not be copyright infringement the copy right only lasts so long, and Cryptic is an authorized Star Trek Publisher. I am not saying copy the games, I am saying look at the Star Trek Experience in each and implement the best concepts into STO, thus giving the ultimate Star Trek Experience
This guy has the right idea
You're thinking of patents, copyright protection lasts as long as a person/group owns a given name or icon.
While it would be very interesting to try and create a game that combines the "best" traits of all Trek games before STO, there is a quality of making something fresh as Cryptic is trying to do, and if they keep at it then given time we'll all end up happy.:cool:
oh i would be so happy if those things really got in the game...but you forgot something...THE SECTOR SHOE BOX...trash it make the universe as it should be...BIG...not in a bunch of shoe boxes glued together...
But seriously...if those changes were made...i would become a Cryptic suporter...and beleive me this is a compliment comming from me...lol:D
You are correct, thank you for pointing out my error. Paramount owns the rights to the Star Trek concepts, the games copyrights only protect storyline and game specifics
1. Bridge combat is unwieldy in this type of setting. Using the viewscreen limits the situational awareness of the player a great deal. Someone not using the bridge view would decimate a player who was using it very quickly.
2. Full 3D Star Trek Starship combat is also very unweildy and borderline unTrek like.
3. They are adding ship interiors, so I can't really comment on that till I know how it is implemented.
Something people should try to remember is this is supposed to be a Star Trek MMO not a Star Trek simulator.
I second that.
QFE, Thank you for saying this, so i don't have to.
Nothing has entered the public domain that was made after 1923. Beyond that, Cryptic's rights to Star Trek would probably enable them to justify buying or asking for copies of past Star Trek games but would still make downloading them illegally wrong in the eyes of the law.
I think you're making a huge assumption that they didn't play those games when they may have played them and consciously decided to do things differently in certain cases.
At the very least, hopefully, we get to do Sector Space travel from our bridge. As for combat, I doubt ww will, and if it is in the game....I would never personally use it.
That's because this is the 25th century and everyone has Borg-derived personal shields, something I understand CBS not only approved but really seemed to love as a concept. I suspect the idea of people taking "10 or so phaser shots to bring down" is probably going to be something you'll see more of in Trek beyond STO in the future.
True, but then why do the guys without a shield still take multiple shots? In all of the movies and shows ANYONE taking more than 1 shot to bring down (besides adapted borg) was very rare. So when some random thug in a jumpsuit takes 6 hits in the chest from my phaser rifle then punches me in the face and knocks me over, it kinda ruins the Trek feel.
IMO the ground combat should be slower and cover based. The average shielded soldier should be able to take 3 shots (2 on the shield, 1 on the body). Melee weapons should be insta-KOs since you couldn't just blind charge anymore. This would make it more trek-like.
Come up with whatever reasoning you want, 12 guys standing in a open hallway blasting the **** out of eachother over and over until the other side is dead is not Star Trek.
In game, our phasers are set on stun and any disintegrations are the result of an overload/malfunction.
Want proof? A number of the NPCs in the Neutral Zone hub claim that they were the bar at the Treasure Trading Station and that the Starfleet officers they encountered used non-lethal force on them.
I've no desire to run combat from the Bridge - Bridge Commander thoroughly burned that out of me - but being able to actually travel while in the interior would be extremely convenient.
The issue with that is that they intend sector space to be a social hub. Gozer addresses this in the latest Neutral Zone podcast. Sector Space is the one place they can force you to socialize and they don't want to give that up as the game itself is already less social than they'd prefer.
For them to consider this, I think you'd need a way to make the game fundamentally more passively social.
Yeah... I'm still trying to figure out exactly what aspects of sector space are supposed to encourage that other than forcing people to move through the same space. And everyone I talk to frequently has Zone chat turned off like me.
I forget if it was you or someone else who posted the idea of making sector space actually resemble an astrometrics lab interface rather than looking like it does now but I think that would go a ways toward inducing people to interact more in sector space. Right now I feel like I and most other people are treating sector space more like rushing down a crowded sidewalk, trying to ignore the crowd while pinballing through it.
Sector space is social?? Star Bases are social hubs, or at least they should be. Sector space is just a place to travel through. Cryptic needs to break from this concept of SS being a social hub, it makes no sense.
Besides, if I'm on my bridge, I should be able to pull up a sector space mini map if I wish. Problem solved for Gozer. They also need to include a player ship-to-ship hailing system. I see someone I want to talk to on my sector space mini map, I send them a hail. On their bridge they get a pop-up, Communications Officer: 'Sir, we are being hailed"....."Put it on screen"....Then they see the player captain and he/she fills out the chat window with text.
Wow, that kinda sounds like Star Trek to me.
The game falls utterly short of achieving any level of depth and playability. It is facile, completely linear and irredeemably shallow. It fails to achieve playability as a standalone MMO, let alone live up to any expectations of realising integrity in relation to ST. And none of this is damning, because it could be addressed. The killer is that it won't be addressed and that beyond some half-hearted cosmetic changes, the current state of the game is as good as its going to get.
This dismal state of affairs not only leaves a sour taste in the mouths of people who bought into the game, particularly those who (no doubt foolishly) opted life-time memberships -and sees yet another game fall into the rapidly filling discard-bin of poorly executed MMO's - but is a missed opportunity to realise and retain a long term dedicated/cult client base. Its also a depressing requiem for those few at Cryptic who tried and lobbied for something better, to no avail.
I'm the first to recognise the good aspects of the game, its just that the negative aspects are all pervasive - and going to stay that way. The saddest thing of all is that it didn't have to be brilliant, it just had to be adequate. And it didn't even achieve that.