If I want to leave a match for whatever reason than that's my business. Forcing players to waste their time in a situation they are not inclined to entertain is a form of sadism that never fails to amaze me.
I'm sorry if it hurts you to realize this, but while leaving a match may seem selfish to you - forcing your opponents to stick around solely for your entertainment is many times more severe. I never understand how so many fail to acknowledge this double-edged claim.
I dont know. Unless its an emergency you should have to stay in a match you signed up for. I mean the people who joined up would appriciate that as well they might actually want to win. If they have put back an option to leave a match it needs to take away honor points IMO.
I dont know. Unless its an emergency you should have to stay in a match you signed up for. I mean the people who joined up would appriciate that as well they might actually want to win. If they have put back an option to leave a match it needs to take away honor points IMO.
So you're advocating punishing those who choose to forfeit?
When did Chess become the only game in which surrender is seen as a legitimate decision?
So you're advocating punishing those who choose to forfeit?
When did Chess become the only game in which surrender is seen as a legitimate decision?
It's not forfeit, because the opposition doesn't gain anything when you leave. In fact, if the entire enemy team "forfeits", the "winning" team is stuck without an opponent and with absolutely no chance of winning, much less having fun.
Now, if there was actually some benefit from the other guy leaving for the people who remain, such as, say, a lower number of kills that the other team needs to reach (and an instant win if the entire enemy team deserts) then it would truly be a "forfeit".
I do agree, though, that not allowing you to leave at all is completely ridiculous.
It's not forfeit, because the opposition doesn't gain anything when you leave. In fact, if the entire enemy team "forfeits", the "winning" team is stuck without an opponent and with absolutely no chance of winning, much less having fun.
True, and as far as I'm concerned the other team could receive 100 free cryptic points every time their opponents left a match. In fact, rewarding players for staying is so blatantly preferable to punishing those who leave that I'm surprised it's not implemented in every competitive system.
I'm interested in having fun playing the game I payed for and I don't need to qualify my experience with a "Victory" screen. If a match is particularly un-enjoyable then I should be allowed to leave, no-questions-asked. As I've said, you may call this selfish, but the alternative is far more offensive.
This is a game, not a league. You should be advocating a ranked PvP match-ups instead of trying to talk down legitimate players.
Legitimate players wouldnt leave matches they signed up for. This isnt a solo game the players who are on your side are depending on you for thier enjoyment and opurtunity to win the match. If your entire team decides to forfiet then ok you all leave with nothing and the winning side gets the points.
I'm interested in having fun playing the game I payed for and I don't need to qualify my experience with a "Victory" screen. If a match is particularly un-enjoyable then I should be allowed to leave, no-questions-asked. As I've said, you may call this selfish, but the alternative is far more offensive.
Ok your selfish, dont sign up for matches if your not going to finish them. The players you are leaving also pay to play.
FWIW, I don't think it's selfish to leave a match for any reason. If leaving a game only advantages you at the expense of everyone else, then the game is designed stupidly. The game needn't be designed in such a cack-handed, perversely unrewarding way. The vast majority of other online games aren't designed like that, but for some reason this game is.
EH, I only noticed I couldn't leave after I amazingly got bugged out in Cracked (the old Ally to everyone bug. Still happens if you disco and get blown up while disconnected).
Was gonna leave the match, but guess what! denied. I had to sit thru the rest randomly healing people.
FWIW, I don't think it's selfish to leave a match for any reason. If leaving a game only advantages you at the expense of everyone else, then the game is designed stupidly. The game needn't be designed in such a cack-handed, perversely unrewarding way. The vast majority of other online games aren't designed like that, but for some reason this game is.
Well put, but I would still accept it as selfish.
I hate to get into psychology, but there's no such thing as a selfless action. All that a person decides to do is the result of some eventual benefit they receive, whether it be emotional, intellectual, or physical. Otherwise no one would ever make a decision period.
FWIW, I don't think it's selfish to leave a match for any reason. If leaving a game only advantages you at the expense of everyone else, then the game is designed stupidly. The game needn't be designed in such a cack-handed, perversely unrewarding way. The vast majority of other online games aren't designed like that, but for some reason this game is.
If you want to leave a map so urgently, just run into the opposition and commit suicide a couple of times, this'll take a few minutes and its done.
You are still TRIBBLE your own team, but at least not the opposition, who were screwed so many times by leavers and wasted and dead maps before.
Still not queueing up at all would be a better option for notoric leavers.
And if its a real "emergency" you propably gonna switch of the game anyway, so who cares.
For months now leavers have made maps miserable for those who really wanted to play, i assume now leavers will have to "suffer" a little while without that option, until cryptic figures out something else.
Exactly, so give them the decision to leave if they want to. Taking away a player's ability to make that decision period is unacceptable.
Well put.
So in your mind it is ok to put 4 other players at a huge disadvantage and undermine their enjoyment because you just for watever reason want to leave?? Most matches last only 15 minutes cracked planet even less. This is really a pathetic that you are actually trying to justify this IMO. Isnt there a single player game you would rather be playing somewhere??
If you want to leave a map so urgently, just run into the opposition and commit suicide a couple of times, this'll take a few minutes and its done.
You are still TRIBBLE your own team, but at least not the opposition, who were screwed so many times by leavers and wasted and dead maps before.
Still not queueing up at all would be a better option for notoric leavers.
And if its a real "emergency" you propably gonna switch of the game anyway, so who cares.
For months now leavers have made maps miserable for those who really wanted to play, i assume now leavers will have to "suffer" a little while without that option, until cryptic figures out something else.
Yes, the fact that leaving makes life miserable for everybody else is a problem -- but the solution is to design the game so that it doesn't make life miserable for anyone at all. It would be really simple to make leaving completely neutral for everybody else -- just reduce the number of kills necessary to win (i.e. scale the win conditions based on the number of people playing). Or, alternatively, have a time limit on maps that is dependent on the number of players on each side. So a 1 on 1 wouldn't require 40 kills in ground and 15 in space, but rather 5 kills in both, and/or have a max time limit of 15 minutes (winner is whoever has most kills after that amount of time).
This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.
The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Yes, the fact that leaving makes life miserable for everybody else is a problem -- but the solution is to design the game so that it doesn't make life miserable for anyone at all. It would be really simple to make leaving completely neutral for everybody else -- just reduce the number of kills necessary to win (i.e. scale the win conditions based on the number of people playing). Or, alternatively, have a time limit on maps that is dependent on the number of players on each side. So a 1 on 1 wouldn't require 40 kills in ground and 15 in space, but rather 5 kills in both, and/or have a max time limit of 15 minutes (winner is whoever has most kills after that amount of time).
This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.
The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Yes, the fact that leaving makes life miserable for everybody else is a problem -- but the solution is to design the game so that it doesn't make life miserable for anyone at all. It would be really simple to make leaving completely neutral for everybody else -- just reduce the number of kills necessary to win (i.e. scale the win conditions based on the number of people playing). Or, alternatively, have a time limit on maps that is dependent on the number of players on each side. So a 1 on 1 wouldn't require 40 kills in ground and 15 in space, but rather 5 kills in both, and/or have a max time limit of 15 minutes (winner is whoever has most kills after that amount of time).
This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.
The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Actually its a bit more than that ... if you have a date with some friends to play basketball(or insert whatever sports you play, or any "real" game you like to play with "real" friends), you'd play till the game is over, not until 3 minutes into the game when you start losing and suddenly decide you don't want to play anymore.
Its a common curtesy, and besides if you really have fun in a game, you can play it through till the end even if you lose, and if you don't have fun in it , why bother playing it at all ?
You think you can't play a whole STO map till the end when you start are losing? don't queue please!
Leavers will allways make maps miserable for their own team as well as the opposition, regardless of what cryptic designs, simply due to the fact that they uneven the game(more than the messed up queue already does), and this allways means less fun for both sides, cryptic cant change that part of the leaver problem, it's not in their hands.
Actually its a bit more than that ... if you have a date with some friends to play basketball(or insert whatever sports you play, or any "real" game you like to play with "real" friends), you'd play till the game is over, not until 3 minutes into the game when you start losing and suddenly decide you don't want to play anymore.
Its a common curtesy, and besides if you really have fun in a game, you can play it through till the end even if you lose, and if you don't have fun in it , why bother playing it at all ?
You think you can't play a whole STO map till the end when you start are losing? don't queue please!
Leavers will allways make maps miserable for their own team as well as the opposition, regardless of what cryptic designs, simply due to the fact that they uneven the game(more than the messed up queue already does), and this allways means less fun for both sides, cryptic cant change that part of the leaver problem, it's not in their hands.
I see where he is comming from if the low side is Klingon's some unfortunatley wont come out of cloak (I usually wait a few minutes get bored and if no reinforcements come then I see if I can take 1 down with me LOL). So I like his time limmit based on that.
On a side note: You can add the suiciders who are just in it to get their Daily quests done.
So if e.g. the doorbell rings, and we were out of combat, we could just leave the match and see who is at the door. The next one on the waiting list would have gotten the invite and our team was just for a short time at a disadvantage.
Now we would need to go afk. Our team would need to fight how long it may takes with one less player. Or they are klingons and decide to wait while being cloaked... again how long it may takes for the one missing player to come back or until they run out of patience.
Well I prefer being on the side with fewer players anyway Always have done, in any game...
A new thing related to this has happened too, with queues only being open for the first 2 mins (IIRC) to new players. So say someone queues up and then declines the invite, other players only have 2 minutes to join before the queues close; if no new players join in those 2 minutes, your team ends up at a numerical disadvantage for the entire game. Again, stupid design...
So if e.g. the doorbell rings, and we were out of combat, we could just leave the match and see who is at the door. The next one on the waiting list would have gotten the invite and our team was just for a short time at a disadvantage.
Now we would need to go afk. Our team would need to fight how long it may takes with one less player. Or they are klingons and decide to wait while being cloaked... again how long it may takes for the one missing player to come back or until they run out of patience.
Great change. :rolleyes:
Bah who ever is at the door is either trying to collect a bill or sell you something, they can wait.. Id prefer the option for players to leave if they lost something. Like 1000 honor (rated by rank ofcourse) BG/RA 5's would be discouraged to leave matches but if unavoidable it isnt game breaking.
Actually its a bit more than that ... if you have a date with some friends to play basketball(or insert whatever sports you play, or any "real" game you like to play with "real" friends), you'd play till the game is over, not until 3 minutes into the game when you start losing and suddenly decide you don't want to play anymore.
Its a common curtesy, and besides if you really have fun in a game, you can play it through till the end even if you lose, and if you don't have fun in it , why bother playing it at all ?
You think you can't play a whole STO map till the end when you start are losing? don't queue please!
Leavers will allways make maps miserable for their own team as well as the opposition, regardless of what cryptic designs, simply due to the fact that they uneven the game(more than the messed up queue already does), and this allways means less fun for both sides, cryptic cant change that part of the leaver problem, it's not in their hands.
I agree with you and think your comments hit it right out of the ball park. I agree that if people have emergencies that occur in the middle of a match then that is one thing. We all have circumstances beyond our control that happen suddenly. That would be the only problem i see.
However the problem is people are leaving for only 3 reasons that I can think of. The first is they maybe outnumbered and don't like it. The second is they are losing and leave. The third and most despicable reason is the blame game. They think their teammates suck so they tell them as much and leave the match. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with them.
I saw a comment in pvp chat yesterday along this effect. I wish I could remember the exact words, but it was along the effect that they had a good team earlier but this new team consisted of nothing but idiots. I won't say the name of the person but they actually said this in organisedpvp chat..
Two things with this, they can't even fathom that they could also be the reason they are losing. As all my coaches used to say "There is No I in team". The second problem is if you think your so elite and all your teamates suck then stay and teach them. You could be the person that makes raises the level of the game of everyone around you. Be a leader not a whiner...
I agree with the change and glad its been implemented. The only reason you should leave a match after committing to it is something unexpected occurs and you absolutely have no choice. Then you can always just tell your teammates as much and here's an idea, shut your computer off...
I do believe this is temporary, as it states in the patch notes that the ability to leave a PvP match is temporarily disabled in anticipoation of a penalty for those who leave.... Im thinking something ala WoW where players could leave but were forced to wait a period of time before they could cue up for another match....
I gotta admit that this was really annoying last night. I jumped into a PvP as my Gorn. There were 5 Klingons and 3 Feds when the match started. So two of the Feds just logged off. Two of the Klings followed them. So we were left with a 3 to 1 situation. And needing 34 more kills to end. So we set up a bunch of 1 vs 1 duels between the Fed and a single guy from our side. It was a lot of fun, but after like 40 minutes I still had to log off when we had like 8 kills left to go.
It seems the first problem is still to fix the uneven team issues. Then they can lock games so no one leaves. I would rather there was a penalty to leave than not be able to.
Another idea would be to allow for people to call for reinforcements from thier BOs. That would even the teams out, even if some are just bots. Then if a real person joins, beam out a bot.
I hate to get into psychology, but there's no such thing as a selfless action. All that a person decides to do is the result of some eventual benefit they receive, whether it be emotional, intellectual, or physical. Otherwise no one would ever make a decision period.
Ever heard about being altruistic? Well now you have.
thank god they added this, I can not count the times we've had people bail out of a match because they are losing.
they need a penealty and now with this its a start in the right direction.
thank god they added this, I can not count the times we've had people bail out of a match because they are losing.
they need a penealty and now with this its a start in the right direction.
~signed and agreed
do a gw style of penalty, after you jump ship twice you get banned from pvp for 30 minutes.
I gotta admit that this was really annoying last night. I jumped into a PvP as my Gorn. There were 5 Klingons and 3 Feds when the match started. So two of the Feds just logged off. Two of the Klings followed them. So we were left with a 3 to 1 situation. And needing 34 more kills to end. So we set up a bunch of 1 vs 1 duels between the Fed and a single guy from our side. It was a lot of fun, but after like 40 minutes I still had to log off when we had like 8 kills left to go.
It seems the first problem is still to fix the uneven team issues. Then they can lock games so no one leaves. I would rather there was a penalty to leave than not be able to.
Another idea would be to allow for people to call for reinforcements from thier BOs. That would even the teams out, even if some are just bots. Then if a real person joins, beam out a bot.
I noticed this last night. I was busy sucking at ground pvp and the missus wanted me to come to bed. Solution? Just log out It'll boot you from the match, you can come right back if you want to.
Comments
So you're advocating punishing those who choose to forfeit?
When did Chess become the only game in which surrender is seen as a legitimate decision?
"Commit to a match."?
This is a game, not a league. You should be advocating a ranked PvP match-ups instead of trying to talk down legitimate players.
Now, if there was actually some benefit from the other guy leaving for the people who remain, such as, say, a lower number of kills that the other team needs to reach (and an instant win if the entire enemy team deserts) then it would truly be a "forfeit".
I do agree, though, that not allowing you to leave at all is completely ridiculous.
True, and as far as I'm concerned the other team could receive 100 free cryptic points every time their opponents left a match. In fact, rewarding players for staying is so blatantly preferable to punishing those who leave that I'm surprised it's not implemented in every competitive system.
I'm interested in having fun playing the game I payed for and I don't need to qualify my experience with a "Victory" screen. If a match is particularly un-enjoyable then I should be allowed to leave, no-questions-asked. As I've said, you may call this selfish, but the alternative is far more offensive.
Legitimate players wouldnt leave matches they signed up for. This isnt a solo game the players who are on your side are depending on you for thier enjoyment and opurtunity to win the match. If your entire team decides to forfiet then ok you all leave with nothing and the winning side gets the points.
Ok your selfish, dont sign up for matches if your not going to finish them. The players you are leaving also pay to play.
Was gonna leave the match, but guess what! denied. I had to sit thru the rest randomly healing people.
Exactly, so give them the decision to leave if they want to. Taking away a player's ability to make that decision period is unacceptable.
Well put, but I would still accept it as selfish.
I hate to get into psychology, but there's no such thing as a selfless action. All that a person decides to do is the result of some eventual benefit they receive, whether it be emotional, intellectual, or physical. Otherwise no one would ever make a decision period.
If you want to leave a map so urgently, just run into the opposition and commit suicide a couple of times, this'll take a few minutes and its done.
You are still TRIBBLE your own team, but at least not the opposition, who were screwed so many times by leavers and wasted and dead maps before.
Still not queueing up at all would be a better option for notoric leavers.
And if its a real "emergency" you propably gonna switch of the game anyway, so who cares.
For months now leavers have made maps miserable for those who really wanted to play, i assume now leavers will have to "suffer" a little while without that option, until cryptic figures out something else.
So in your mind it is ok to put 4 other players at a huge disadvantage and undermine their enjoyment because you just for watever reason want to leave?? Most matches last only 15 minutes cracked planet even less. This is really a pathetic that you are actually trying to justify this IMO. Isnt there a single player game you would rather be playing somewhere??
This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.
The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Those are some great idea's.
Actually its a bit more than that ... if you have a date with some friends to play basketball(or insert whatever sports you play, or any "real" game you like to play with "real" friends), you'd play till the game is over, not until 3 minutes into the game when you start losing and suddenly decide you don't want to play anymore.
Its a common curtesy, and besides if you really have fun in a game, you can play it through till the end even if you lose, and if you don't have fun in it , why bother playing it at all ?
You think you can't play a whole STO map till the end when you start are losing? don't queue please!
Leavers will allways make maps miserable for their own team as well as the opposition, regardless of what cryptic designs, simply due to the fact that they uneven the game(more than the messed up queue already does), and this allways means less fun for both sides, cryptic cant change that part of the leaver problem, it's not in their hands.
I see where he is comming from if the low side is Klingon's some unfortunatley wont come out of cloak (I usually wait a few minutes get bored and if no reinforcements come then I see if I can take 1 down with me LOL). So I like his time limmit based on that.
On a side note: You can add the suiciders who are just in it to get their Daily quests done.
Now we would need to go afk. Our team would need to fight how long it may takes with one less player. Or they are klingons and decide to wait while being cloaked... again how long it may takes for the one missing player to come back or until they run out of patience.
Great change. :rolleyes:
A new thing related to this has happened too, with queues only being open for the first 2 mins (IIRC) to new players. So say someone queues up and then declines the invite, other players only have 2 minutes to join before the queues close; if no new players join in those 2 minutes, your team ends up at a numerical disadvantage for the entire game. Again, stupid design...
Bah who ever is at the door is either trying to collect a bill or sell you something, they can wait.. Id prefer the option for players to leave if they lost something. Like 1000 honor (rated by rank ofcourse) BG/RA 5's would be discouraged to leave matches but if unavoidable it isnt game breaking.
I agree with you and think your comments hit it right out of the ball park. I agree that if people have emergencies that occur in the middle of a match then that is one thing. We all have circumstances beyond our control that happen suddenly. That would be the only problem i see.
However the problem is people are leaving for only 3 reasons that I can think of. The first is they maybe outnumbered and don't like it. The second is they are losing and leave. The third and most despicable reason is the blame game. They think their teammates suck so they tell them as much and leave the match. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with them.
I saw a comment in pvp chat yesterday along this effect. I wish I could remember the exact words, but it was along the effect that they had a good team earlier but this new team consisted of nothing but idiots. I won't say the name of the person but they actually said this in organisedpvp chat..
Two things with this, they can't even fathom that they could also be the reason they are losing. As all my coaches used to say "There is No I in team". The second problem is if you think your so elite and all your teamates suck then stay and teach them. You could be the person that makes raises the level of the game of everyone around you. Be a leader not a whiner...
I agree with the change and glad its been implemented. The only reason you should leave a match after committing to it is something unexpected occurs and you absolutely have no choice. Then you can always just tell your teammates as much and here's an idea, shut your computer off...
There is always the Ctrl+Alt+Del option... or will you get auto back into it if leaving this way?
And it's a good thing - it was always supremely annoying to have people waltz out as soon as they thought they were losing.
It seems the first problem is still to fix the uneven team issues. Then they can lock games so no one leaves. I would rather there was a penalty to leave than not be able to.
Another idea would be to allow for people to call for reinforcements from thier BOs. That would even the teams out, even if some are just bots. Then if a real person joins, beam out a bot.
Just some ideas.
Thanks,
Duncan
Ever heard about being altruistic? Well now you have.
they need a penealty and now with this its a start in the right direction.
~signed and agreed
do a gw style of penalty, after you jump ship twice you get banned from pvp for 30 minutes.