test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

For the sake of getting noticed - FERENGI issue

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I've been nice and quiet and posted in the Tribble forum about this - where my demands got support -, but it appears though the devs read and reply there daily, this issue is being ignored. So I try again here.

Ferengi traits are - wrong.

I understand we - the Ferengi players - are a minority because we don't play a 'pretty' species. But that doesn't mean we should be treated as the stepchild on Fed side. While a minor species like Pakleds - featured in a single episode, plus some background appearances - gets a creative and correct trait, Ferengi are nothing like shown on screen.

* We have no visible, sharp teeth - opposed to Nausicaans and Letheans having their teeth.
* We have no financial trait - there was a trait called 'Lobes for Business' in open beta that mysteriously disappeared and no-one remembers what it did; only the name. The entire species is centered around gaining profit; its like Klingons are born warriors (and they have a 'warrior' trait).
* We have no psi resistance trait - immunity to most forms of telepathy due to the different brain structure is well known from TNG, DS9 and ENT.

I dare to go a step further and claim the devs dislike Ferengi. Why?

Well, IF Ferengi were a respected, equal species in the Federation, we wouldn't see a majority of all Ferengi in story missions as thieves, smugglers and criminals the player has to bully, capture or kill. If that is how Ferengi are portrayed in this game, let us be neutral and decide to work for any factions - KDF, Romulans, Cardassians.

Ferengi are the cheapest C-Store species - way cheaper than the less known Pakleds, for example. Like saying "Here's some cheap TRIBBLE, take it and don't complain - it is CHEAP."

There is even a forum sticky about fraud named 'Beware of Ferengi Smugglers'. An official lobby to make a 'equal member species' of the Federation look bad, you could say.

With this posting, I'm not saying Cryptic should stop to make new species or anything. In fact, I bought all new ones from the C-Store, and would also like to buy the Rigelians. (Speaking of it, why is there no major uproar here? They were promised to come out with Tellarites and Pakleds, yet there is no release date anywhere in the calendar...)
All I ask for is fairness - change the traits of Ferengi to what they are in canon. Radiation/Toxic resistance? That is not the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about typical Ferengi traits. Anything finance related, a cowardy trait, and immunity to telepathy, that is what stands out. Probably the ability to talk the way out of a situation, as a diplomatic trait.

The original topic with all references to canon sources can be found here.

Suggested traits:

Acute Senses (as it is now)
Dual Lobed (90 % immnunity to psi & confuse - they are not 100 % resistant)

Any of these (credits to posters in original topic):

Shady Connections - summons a NPC that buys loot (10 mins CD)
Cowardice - summons a bodyguard that draws fire/protects Ferengi (Ferengi's damage reduced 50% for duration; duration 30 seconds, CD 5 mins)
Silver Tongue - reduces cost from vendors by 10 % / gets 10 % more profit (does not work with replicator)

+ selectable trait from regular list.

We do not have the lobby other more popular species have, so I hope this gets noticed for the sake of fairness. If Klingons had no 'warrior' trait, I would protest just like that.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    What I am about to say is in no way meant as a flame to the OP.




    I hate Ferengi. If it was up to me I would slag Ferenginar with as many torps as I could fire. They are slimy, untrustworthy, little trolls with an obsession for profit. I can't stand them in any shape or form



    (NOTE: I am not against anyone playing them or liking them or what have you. The above is my opinion only and I don't begrudge anyone who does like them or plays them.)



    Now, that I got that out of the way. It is too bad that we can't visit Ferenginar (Reason above). I hope eventually the Ferengi will be a added playable race.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ferengi *are* a playable race. My issue is that they only look like Ferengi and have the wrong traits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ArievDhien wrote:
    Ferengi *are* a playable race. My issue is that they only look like Ferengi and have the wrong traits.

    Sorry, I meant playable faction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I personally love Ferengi, I think they add a lot to any episode they're in. That said tho, I don't think I could play one as the game is now, and since they're not as popular as say Romulans, this won't change anytime soon.

    Be very cool tho someday in the future to be able to beam up to my very own Ferengi cruiser, fly around stealing, smuggling, and earning profit. That's what Ferengi do. So if you see some Ferengi being Ferengi, don't feel bad about it, envy them. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    As much as I would like a Ferengi faction, for now I'd be happy with correct traits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I, too, found the traits for the Ferengi rather off. That toxic resistance makes no sense. It's already thoroughly established that they are resilient to telepathic abilities. I do not recall it being mentioned anywhere that the Ferengi posses any outstanding physical resistances. If anything, I believe that they're quite delicate (their ears are especially fragile if I remember correctly).
    I'm also wondering what happened to the Rigellians! I was really looking forward to playing as them. No one's seems to be bothered that they haven't even been mentioned anymore, much less pointed out how they've disappeared off the calendar entirely (heaven forbid the same thing should happen to the precious Caitians).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I consider myself a bit of an expert for Ferengi, and there is ONE minor reference to possible toxic resistance... Early in DS9 (episode 'Babel') a virus effects everyone except Odo and Quark. However, this virus damages the part of the brain that connects words to their meaning; its a mental virus and Quark's immunity can also be explained with the different brain structure, leading back to telepathy resistance.
    Other than that... Ferengi are quite fragile, really bad in any kind of combat (with the exception of Eliminators, but they are as rare as Klingons with no desire for battle) and tend to run away instead of facing any danger.

    Rigelians, yes. I predicted this. When the Caitian extremists claimed they only insist on 'their' species because 'Cryptic broke the promise', release date-wise, I said no-one would act like that if it was one of the other species announced for this release frame. Here we go... I've seen a few people wondering where Rigelians are, but no enraged topics in all forums. I actually think Rigelians are very well done and have interesting traits. They have a slightly off color palette for the skin, but its on a list the devs look into, so it might be fixed before the release of the playable Rigelians.

    Just to compare why I say Ferengi are the stepchild of the Feds...

    Apperances Ferengi:
    TNG: 15 episodes
    DS9: 70 episodes
    VOY: 5 episodes
    ENT: 2 episodes

    Tellarites:
    ENT: 9
    TOS: 3
    TAS: 1
    Movies: 2

    Pakleds:
    TNG: 1
    DS9 (background extra): 18

    Rigelian:
    ENT: 3

    While the 3 others have much less canon and screen time, they have unique and correct traits. I can't be asked too much to give the more prominently featured Ferengi correct traits, there is enough to pick from.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    As I said in the Tribble Forum...

    /Signed

    I'm all for PSI defenses for Ferengi - so long as they come with a way to change traits on existing characters... I really don't want to have to reroll my Ferengi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Same here, my main is a Ferengi RA5.

    Andorians had their completely useless cold resistance changed to resistance against damage types that are actually in the game. I ask for no less. The Acute Senses would stay, the toxic/radiation resistance would be replaced with psi resistance. Maybe give the option to select the other 2 traits new. I have a random space and a random ground trait, and don't care much for either. The list of options was just so limited, and I had to pick something. I'd trade both for any of the suggested 3rd trait (my personal preference would be the Cowardice trait, as it could reflect 2 canon elements in one; shady connections with hired bullies like Nausicaans and Breen, or a Hypurian servant; and reflects that Ferengi are not made for combat).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    OP other races will need debuffs against ferengi........ summon disgruntled customer to stone said ferengi, inflicting extra damage.......

    lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Why? Only Letheans and Orions have active confuse traits. Only Reman captains have psi damage. That is a very minor part of the enemies. And right now, you could say that no-one has a defense trait against Lethean Rapture and Orion Seduce.

    I'm sorry it is canon that Ferengi are immune to telepathy, but taking it away from them because it doesn't fit in the game is like making all Bajorans atheists. If its so un-doable, then don't offer the species as a playable one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Incidentally, I was the one who suggested "Shady Connections".

    My other thought is something I call "Ears for Opportunity" which is where you have a rare chance on killing blow to turn an enemy into a vendor instead.

    The thing with that or "Shady Connections" is that aside from being exotic is that they speak more to a (cultural) learned trait. We have a few of these like "Spiritual" and "Vulcan Nerve Pinch" which were learned by adept non-Vulcans. You also have some really weird and interesting examples in Star Trek lore of things like Cellular Metamorphosis, an Antosian healing and shapeshifting practice that can be taught to non-Antosians.

    The more I think about it, the more I can see it being tied to a racial recustomization (and upgrades) which people have been calling for. People want new racial traits for existing races. They want to upgrade to the racials that their Epic BOs have. They want to be able to re-select racial trait abilities due to rebalancing.

    I think what would make the most sense is to develop a system out of it. Make traits be something that you collect and even trade. Have a system for teaching traits to other players, learning traits from NPCs, etc.

    At a fairly reasonable cost, you can get traits normally accessible to your species. At a higher cost, you get any traits which are THEORETICALLY learnable. To get these involves time/money/activity on a homeworld.

    So you could go to Feringinar and spend time there for all business related traits. You could spend time on Vulcan and learn the nerve pinch as a non-Vulcan (but not the mindmeld) at great time and expense and then specialize in teaching people, as a crafting type exercise. Out there would be epic traits like Cellular Metamorphosis -- which might be represented as an extra coistume slot you can edit without a tailor and a very slight passive healing bonus.

    I'm going to mull this over but I'm thinking this should be STO's crafting... and the beauty of it is that it's closer to Warcraft's traditional enchanting (prior to inscribing, anyway), in that it's a service performed on site, in person. It's social, not something you typically do over an auction house. That could be very good for STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I agree. Many 'traits' are more professions. There are no species that are naturally 'effienct captains' - every species can train and become that. 'Soldier' is also a matter of military training, its not a racial trait like immunity to certain poisons. Or - psi immunity. There could be kits or skills to improve traits like Empathic, Telepathic or Mental Discipline (for non-telepaths that undergo mental training, i.e. Section 31).

    All that would require a new system and changes on all species' traits. However, simply correcting the Ferengi traits could be done with a patch like Andorian traits were corrected.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    No, this time I'm not letting the issue be/drop to page 3546. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Awesome how little people care if the problem is not about their fave species. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I made the shortest Ferengi female I could for my tactical captain. I find it amusing to be a badass melee Ferengi female, beating down Klingons with a Bat'leth. I do agree that the racial traits should be psi resistance, rather than toxin resistance. I mean, toxin resistance comes to mind for the Vorta more than the Ferengi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Exactly my thought. Vorta are one of the few species with real poison resistance. Maybe you could count Bolians, though its not exactly poisons.

    Maybe Cryptic just mixed things up here... Originally, it was planned that Ferengi have very good ears and very bad eyes. In the end, that 'trait' went to the Vorta.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:

    I hate Ferengi. If it was up to me I would slag Ferenginar with as many torps as I could fire. They are slimy, untrustworthy, little trolls with an obsession for profit. I can't stand them in any shape or form

    This. In Spades. *grumble" loathsome little backstabbing trolls *grumble*

    ;)

    But in all seriousness (not that I don't hate ferengi but still)... Yeah, they need to fix the ferengi. I think them getting higher selling prices and lower costs are right along canon. Same with mental traits (resisitance to Psi, etc). Also they should get some kind of "cast iron stomach" advantage too because of all the disgusting TRIBBLE they eat (bloody sickening little hobgoblins...)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    ArievDhien wrote:
    Awesome how little people care if the problem is not about their fave species. :rolleyes:

    Well, honestly I don't care about the ferengi but I can see it is important to you and I believe that you might have a point with your issue, sooooo here is a shameless bump for ya. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Thanks. I personally dislike Bajorans (and a look at 10F shows others aren't too fond of them either), but I would still find it wrong if they were all atheists and had no spirital trait.

    Edit: Iron Stomach... Can't find canon references. When Quark and Sisko explore the Gamma Quadrant with Nog and Jake, Quark points out that Ferengi don't eat alien insects. When Quark and Odo (human at that time) crash, Odo says they can't eat any of the plants on the planet, so it can be assumed if its toxic for humans, its also toxic for Ferengi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ferengi always get a bad rap :(

    We also need a playable Morn in the C-Store :)

    /signed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with most of this post. I resent that my female Ferengi security BOs skull is too smooth and her brow ridges are too straight and low. Looking at her face reminds me of a poorly circumcised *****. Seriously it looks like she has a frenulum above the center of her forehead. Watching TNG I never thought about these things when I saw any of the Feregi, yet I think about it whenever I see Ferengi in this game. The sad part is from the brow ridge down I think she is kinda cute. So here I am a straight guy playing a game with a NPC, who's face shows up in 50% of my action reports, thinking OMG this thing that reminds me of a ***** is kinda cute and that is WRONG!!! Either Cryptic hates Feregi or the person who modeled them for the game has an agenda.

    I really should leave that rant out of this post. Creation only knows the responses it will generate, but it makes me laugh so it stays.

    I feel that Ferengi should get a bonus to financial transactions with NPCs, and psi resistance. However I do not agree that they should get a free body guard for a cowardice trait though. That would give them too much of an advantage in ground combat. Imagine a Ferengi engineer with two drones, a phaser turret, and a mortar calling in a body guard on top of their bridge crew. Way too much of a combat multiplier. Instead allow the cowardice trait to half the Ferengis agro at all ranges in ground combat only. I bet that could lead to an explosion of science Frengi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yesssssssss! Fix Ferengi! So that Ferengi Express can have the proper money-loving midgets it needs!

    Yesssssssss!

    Also, please to be give us Ferengi Faction kthxbai.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    /signed

    and bump :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well if you want to go with cannon, all Ferengi who joined starfleet wouldn't have any trait "the lobes for business" or any decent financial gain skills whatsoever.....

    in DS9 both Rom and Nog were the only known Ferengi to forgo profit hunting and join starfleet (well Rom joined Bajor but Bajor worked for starfleet)... and they both joined their respective groups because both knew that they were TRIBBLE at business and profit making but good at other things.....

    No doubt after Rom became the grand negus he decreed that any Ferengi without the lobes for business could do other things and not be looked down on in Ferengi society !!!!

    its cannon, makes sense and cryptic are right :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    meehee wrote: »
    Well if you want to go with cannon, all Ferengi who joined starfleet wouldn't have any trait "the lobes for business" or any decent financial gain skills whatsoever.....

    in DS9 both Rom and Nog were the only known Ferengi to forgo profit hunting and join starfleet (well Rom joined Bajor but Bajor worked for starfleet)... and they both joined their respective groups because both knew that they were TRIBBLE at business and profit making but good at other things.....

    No doubt after Rom became the grand negus he decreed that any Ferengi without the lobes for business could do other things and not be looked down on in Ferengi society !!!!

    its cannon, makes sense and cryptic are right :P



    Ok people.

    DEFINITION OF CANON
    DEFINITION OF CANNON

    PLEASE learn the difference.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    evilsmoo wrote: »
    Ok people.

    DEFINITION OF CANON
    DEFINITION OF CANNON

    PLEASE learn the difference.

    LOL, you will probably keep having to do this till folks get it right. :)



    Bump for OP
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I want a C-Store item: Morn. He can sit on bridges and do nothing. On a console that does nothing. Or stand near a replicator and drink. Sometimes you get a pop up window showing Morn, about to tell you something, and it always gets interrupted by a BO. That would explain why he isn't in Quark's. :D

    I just started playing an engineer myself and realized how OP a bodyguard would be, so I agree, cowardice should do something else. Maybe something to improve stealth abilities (as in better at hiding) or boost team damage and sacrifice own (as in hiding behind stronger team mates). Cowardice = -50 % damage (self), + 25 % damage (team - NPC or players), duration 15 seconds, CD 1 minute, maybe?

    'Only Ferengi that do not have financial traits join Starfleet' doesn't workl. Nog - the only Ferengi in Starfleet-Starfleet (not Bajor-Starfleet, meh, it's kinda early and I need coffee before I express myself, lol) - has:

    a) gained profit, though he was willing to give it to Jake Sisko (DS9, In the Cards)
    b) taught Jake Sisko how Ferengi get what they need (same episode, trading favours)
    c) same when helping Chief O'Brien (DS9, Treachery, Faith and the Great River)
    d) somehow acquired rare beverages - during a war, on a Fed station; quote "I'm still a Ferengi after all".

    So he had the lobes, he just decided to go for a different career.

    The feeling for good deals and opportunity is a trait like the Klingon warrior one. You also had Alexander with zero talent for combat serving on the Rotarran, but he was - like Rom (and Keldar) an exception.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    One bump before bed time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Btw, if you think other species have too few options for customization...

    Ferengi have no hair, no eyebrows and no beards to make them look individual. So all we can do is... wait, nothing! Because we have ONE head (no Head 1 and 2), NO skins (i.e. aged, purple eyerings, heroic, default 1 and 2) and NO sliders for the essential things like ear size. We lack of teeth and blueish fingernails, too.
This discussion has been closed.