This is the message the Cruiser Community got tonight in the 1.1 Update: If you want to do good in PvP, get an Escort.
Federation Cruisers are slow ships and heavily depend on Shields and Hull HPs for survival, thats why we spammed Reverse Shield Polarity in heavy Engagements.
But now, Cruisers have to face a bleedthrough issue with cannon fire that is exactly like old Feedback Pulse, where it directly damages the hull. Which effectively makes cruisers nothing but easy targets in PvP. The only way to survive is be in a group that supports one another. However, Escorts and Science Ships can PvP effectively by themselves. Hence my thread.
All I ask is Cryptic get rid of this bleedthrough issue and give Cruisers greater odds of survival. And not turn PvP into "Escort vs Escort".
I dont know I sem to do pretty good in pvp on my cruiser star cruiser But i do have 40% all damage resistance so that helps allot. I am not build for damage but for support and i can say that atm with the new shield patch it even easier for me to do that now. Tho there still are escorts that pull crazy damage still but that will be fixed soon most iekly hopefully in the form of engineering resist consoles stacking
played a total of 7 games before going out of town, got snb lamed a whole lot. Didn't notice it.
FBP is so laughably pathetic against cruisers now its hilarious.
oh, and I decided to stay using 3 cannons, 3 turrets, 2 torps, symettrically alinged because it has a harder hitting front arc.
just broke the nine key on this ****** hotel computer, lawls.
Doesn't that loadout cut your damage distance to 5k optimally? I thought cannons and turrets maxed damage at <5k but >5k the dmg falls off quickly.
I did around 10-12 matches tonight though, and we won only 1 of them. I think my survivability is slightly lower, but I can pin it on anything in particular.
playing the cruiser on my tac this week and starting today ive noticed a significant increase in sruvivability. didnt change any op my bridge officers. my RSP only got tackeled with SNB once (and it was folowed by death) for the rest i can safely say that it has been taking a while longer to destroy other cruisers. not sure of the escorts thoug. some seemed to drop faster others were lasting a bit longer.
im flying mostly at 100 shield power. and from that i can see that TSS is realy still out there and even more so. was left out of shields a lot because of it today. lots of tractors to. strange.
This is the message the Cruiser Community got tonight in the 1.1 Update: If you want to do good in PvP, get an Escort.
Its obvious with these PvP changes, Cryptic really hates Cruisers. Its so bad a ton of my fellow Cruiser Captains are doing just that, turning in their Cruisers for Escorts so they can actually do good in PvP.
Personally, I want to thank Cryptic for giving the Cruiser Community a perverbial middle finger. :rolleyes:
the role of the Cruiser atm is: Support your group as best as you can and make alot of damage! There is nothing nerfed or anything.. dunno.
the role of the Cruiser atm is: Support your group as best as you can and make alot of damage! There is nothing nerfed or anything.. dunno.
Well thats some what correct, we are nothing but floating repair yards for Escorts and Science ships. Sort of like the old Jet Fighter Pilots vs Bomber Pilots. Escorts get all the points, while Cruisers get no love.
But really that shouldn't be it at all. Cruiser Captains are the core of Star Trek, and to have Cruisers become a major underdog is a diservice to Star Trek Fans.
Cruisers should be able to take the punishement of Escorts, not be their whipping boys.
There was a thread in the cruiser forums about cruiser specific weapons and an idea that I really liked that could make cruisers unique is an aura mechanic where yourself and teammates could be buffed or your enemies debuffed in various ways as long as they were within range, similar to how paladin aura's worked in WoW. Just putting the thought out there again since it sounded cool
Cruisers should be able to take the punishement of Escorts, not be their whipping boys.
And before WW2 many admirals thought there was no way an airplane could ever sink a battle ship.
But cruisers can beat escorts 1v1 they have to win the war of attrition or outlast the escort through defence (at least thats how it seems to me when I am on the losing end of the encounter). Some I cant seem to touch and others I go thru like a hot knife thru butter, so either the ones I cant touch are cheating somehow (wich I dont think) or the ones I kill within 3 seconds are bad PvPers or have the wrong set up. If your trying to survive against focus fire from multible escorts then you will need help form your team members.
Maybe another cruiser captain, thinking that his ship should be able to outlast an enemy that used 6 skills to boost his damage when he himself used none.
Or got no tanking skills at all except 3-5 RSPs, and when they are gone he is gone.
Actually the change to shield-resistances grants a nice little bonus since patch to your survivability. You only need to pop Reverse Shield Frequency and increase your shieldpower and nothing will dent your shields anymore. Similar results with boosted science teams and co.
But one happy answer for you: They work on the crew-system, the problem that torpedos and explosions take away way too many crewmembers, so soon you will have a lot more able crewman repairing your hull.
Seems like a learn to play issue to me, I'm doing just as fine as before 1.1 better in fact without all the excessive crowd control.
Please don't start that flamebaiting nonsense, Tareq. There are a ton of Cruiser Captains that are furiousat the changes, who actually knew how to PvP in their Crusiers.
In fact, some of them are now rolling Escorts, since their Cruisers are useless in PvP now.
And before WW2 many admirals thought there was no way an airplane could ever sink a battle ship.
But cruisers can beat escorts 1v1 they have to win the war of attrition or outlast the escort through defence (at least thats how it seems to me when I am on the losing end of the encounter). Some I cant seem to touch and others I go thru like a hot knife thru butter, so either the ones I cant touch are cheating somehow (wich I dont think) or the ones I kill within 3 seconds are bad PvPers or have the wrong set up. If your trying to survive against focus fire from multible escorts then you will need help form your team members.
Yes, I fought Escorts 1 on 1 plenty fo times. But it doesn't change the fact that Escorts can shoot through shields more so than they use to be. So that makes Crusiers nothing but huge targets, much like those Aircraft sinking Battleships.
Please don't start that flamebaiting nonsense, Tareq. There are a ton of Cruiser Captains that are furiousat the changes, who actually knew how to PvP in their Crusiers.
In fact, some of them are now rolling Escorts, since their Cruisers are useless in PvP now.
Yes, I fought Escorts 1 on 1 plenty fo times. But it doesn't change the fact that Escorts can shoot through shields more so than they use to be. So that makes Crusiers nothing but huge targets, much like those Aircraft sinking Battleships.
Why dont they just find out what the Cruisers that are doing well are using? Like I said some cruiser capt's are doing extremely well and some just dont seem to get it. We have a few people using cruisers in our fleet and they are a huge asset, and can take a pounding.
Please don't start that flamebaiting nonsense, Tareq. There are a ton of Cruiser Captains that are furiousat the changes, who actually knew how to PvP in their Crusiers.
In fact, some of them are now rolling Escorts, since their Cruisers are useless in PvP now.
And I don't understand why. My damage output is roughly the same, my healing is roughly the same.
Enemy player ships do not suddenly dish out more damage. I can no longer be disabled completely for long periods of time, I can no longer kill myself with a single broadside when someone pops FBP, I am no longer defenseless when VM'ed and Science Team is on cooldown.
My shields last slightly longer, although hardly noticable vs escorts.
The only downside is that an ability that only science captains have with a several minutes long cooldown can strip my buffs including RSP. Woopiedoo.
Yes cruisers can use some help compared to how good science ships and escorts are, but that was an issue before 1.1 and frankly has nothing to do with the new 1.1 patch.
So, what exactly is so terrible about cruisers now?
- Escorts got buffed again due to new purple gear
- Science Vessels got nerfed to uselessness (everything they could do a cruiser or escort can do better)
I'm really interested, because from my observation, cruisers are still doing fine. Beam damage is even weaker compared to cannons now, though. So that might be an issue.
Well thats some what correct, we are nothing but floating repair yards for Escorts and Science ships. Sort of like the old Jet Fighter Pilots vs Bomber Pilots. Escorts get all the points, while Cruisers get no love.
But really that shouldn't be it at all. Cruiser Captains are the core of Star Trek, and to have Cruisers become a major underdog is a diservice to Star Trek Fans.
Cruisers should be able to take the punishement of Escorts, not be their whipping boys.
I think there are problems with the damage output and all that. I think there are too many underpowered abilities, particular for Cruiser Captains. But that said, being the "floating repair yard" is not an underdog position. It is a valuable role in any team setup. It is useful if someone can really bring the repairs in ship-to-ship combat. There is nothing wrong with that. It turns you into the backbone - not an underdog - of any good team.
Not everyone likes this role. That is certainly an issue. There are lots of people that want to be the ones that kill things, and they are disappointed that the Cruiser cannot do that as well as other ships. But ultimiately, even with longer survivability, Cruisers will not be that. They will always be a type of support ship. But don't mistake "support" for a secondary role. It's a crucial role, and it should and can be just as challenging, fun and important as any other role.. It's still not a role for everyone. And it might be that Cruisers still don't have the necessary mix of options and survivability required to make it as challenging, fun and important as it could be.
This is the message the Cruiser Community got tonight in the 1.1 Update: If you want to do good in PvP, get an Escort.
Its obvious with these PvP changes, Cryptic really hates Cruisers. Its so bad a ton of my fellow Cruiser Captains are doing just that, turning in their Cruisers for Escorts so they can actually do good in PvP.
Personally, I want to thank Cryptic for giving the Cruiser Community a perverbial middle finger. :rolleyes:
Actually Escorts got a new problem, Feedback pulse affects cannons too.
Seems to me cruisers are better off now. For one thing, they aren't sitting in a purple fuzzball all the time. And they can deter escorts with FBP.
Errrr, not exactly, no, FBP1 does not deter anyone, and it's the only version of FBP that fits in any cruiser(max. lieutenant science station).
But as for the topic itself, I haven't noticed any problems playing my cruiser so far.
The only thing that changed is that I have Photonic Officer I now to mitigate the absence of a science team if I get subnuked for some obscure reason. Yep that's right, I've no science teams. I rely on my group for those if I need one. It's because it's very inconvenient if my engineering team 3's are on cooldown.
I'm an interactive healing robot, I think. It can be very annoying though when some people, particularly in PUGs, decide to scoot out of my healing range for no particular reason except fear.
Usually the better escorts realize that if I'm healing them, it takes quite a bit to kill them, and they prefer to stay close to me instead.
I think a member of our fleet would like to say a few well-chosen words for whoever it was that claimed that science vessels have become useless.
I might have heard that science team 3, hazard emitters, and energy siphon/tyken's rift go a long way towards draining subsystems... and keeping your team alive... and then there's FBP3.... HMMMMM.
This is the message the Cruiser Community got tonight in the 1.1 Update: If you want to do good in PvP, get an Escort.
Its obvious with these PvP changes, Cryptic really hates Cruisers. Its so bad a ton of my fellow Cruiser Captains are doing just that, turning in their Cruisers for Escorts so they can actually do good in PvP.
Personally, I want to thank Cryptic for giving the Cruiser Community a perverbial middle finger. :rolleyes:
I started with an engineer on an escort and ran him till RA3 and made a new engineer toon that flew a science ship because the escort pops so quick. I ran the science ship to captain1 but then the constant nerfing made me wonder... I started another engineer and put him on a cruiser he is my most survivable toon. To be honest I have no idea why you started this thread, but cruiser fanbois seem to get all the love. Science got nerfed and now the escort is facing down the nerf bat, but the cruiser still is what it was and now turns faster with the 1.1 update that moved turn from Aux to Engines.
I and my other cruiser fleetmates, compadres and other allies & such, were having an exceptionally good day in our cruisers yesterday. I'm struggling to understand where the complaints are coming from. =o
If you don't spend the points to boost your power settings, if you throw in the wrong consoles (if you don't use efficient engines imho ) and you don't buff up your sci-teams (carry two, fer srs) then you're a giant squishy balloon. But that 20% resist at 100 power... well. Unbuffed, simply switching to shields, I'm running at 120. That, plus RSF, plus either EmpShields / SciT, or EPS Transfer. Your shields will have huge, huge resistance to anything incoming, and you'll have enough raw power to laugh off the mightiest of Target Shields.
And if you keep your power levels over 110 when you're firing. You might not do the horribly nasty burst DPS of an escort, but personally I tend to play the offensive rather than healer role, and in a fleet grouping I'll either be right behind or 2nd behind the mightiest of our tac escorts. You can do some serious sustained damage. Power management is more important in a cruiser in general, more important this patch in general. I shall not demean any of you struggling boat-captains at all, but I think you might need to take more notice of stuff like that and where your skillpoints are. Peace & Love.
Ok here's the deal. If you had your cruiser configured for lots of pug play and had the 3+ RSP Battleship build, you're in for a nasty shock. If you had your cruiser configured for pure support (multi eng teams and multi extend shields) then you either won't notice a difference or maybe even notice an increase in survivability.
Yes I know 3+ RSP was always bad for organized pvp but after hearing some cruiser captains complain today in PUG matches I think I know which ones are having a hard time.
Ok so here it goes and again, this is coming from a PUG perpestive:
Forget stacking RSP after the patch. Just scrap it right now and retrain/swap out your BO's. RSP can be stripped so easily it's almost worthless and even more so when you stack them. Sci captains were laughing when confronting cruisers who haven't changed their multi-RSP setup.
After the patch you pretty much HAVE to play support as a cruiser... period. I know this was always the case in organized PvP but now even in PUG play that green circle that made you feel safe is now a big "SHOOT ME WITH SNB" sign and the SCI captains are loving it.
I used to roll with 3x RSP I admit. It was fun while it lasted especially on the cap+hold maps where I could park my fat butt on a capture point and take anybody on 1v1 even 2v1 when the game was coming down to the wire. Now I just follow an escort or sci ship around and spam extend shields in PUGS.
For me, the good and the bad I guess is that I admit, my new support role doesn't feel as fun. I don't feel like a battleship anymore. Having said that though, I'm getting a LOT more "thanks man" and it is kinda cool when you bring back a team member from the brink of death.
Glad you mentioned the RSP-stripping there, I forgot to.
Personally I still carry three solo, two in the extra-supporty build. There isn't always a sci captain around, but you should defo not rely on it for more than a few seconds breather anyway. Good to give you a moment to patch up your hull if a burst got through, but that's about it. Work on keeping shields up by any other means, and try to save it until after the sci captain's got frustrated and SNB'd you.
Ok here's the deal. If you had your cruiser configured for lots of pug play and had the 3+ RSP Battleship build, you're in for a nasty shock. If you had your cruiser configured for pure support (multi eng teams and multi extend shields) then you either won't notice a difference or maybe even notice an increase in survivability.
Yes I know 3+ RSP was always bad for organized pvp but after hearing some cruiser captains complain today in PUG matches I think I know which ones are having a hard time.
Ok so here it goes and again, this is coming from a PUG perpestive:
Forget stacking RSP after the patch. Just scrap it right now and retrain/swap out your BO's. RSP can be stripped so easily it's almost worthless and even more so when you stack them. Sci captains were laughing when confronting cruisers who haven't changed their multi-RSP setup.
After the patch you pretty much HAVE to play support as a cruiser... period. I know this was always the case in organized PvP but now even in PUG play that green circle that made you feel safe is now a big "SHOOT ME WITH SNB" sign and the SCI captains are loving it.
I used to roll with 3x RSP I admit. It was fun while it lasted especially on the cap+hold maps where I could park my fat butt on a capture point and take anybody on 1v1 even 2v1 when the game was coming down to the wire. Now I just follow an escort or sci ship around and spam extend shields in PUGS.
For me, the good and the bad I guess is that I admit, my new support role doesn't feel as fun. I don't feel like a battleship anymore. Having said that though, I'm getting a LOT more "thanks man" and it is kinda cool when you bring back a team member from the brink of death.
Agreed.
The only issue I'm really seeing as a support build is that in PUGs I'm usually the *only* player supporting. The counter to SNB is for everyone on the team to do a little healing and buffing, because if you're relying on one player to carry the team, then the team is screwed if that player gets hit with SNB and focus fire, or if all the buffs that player just put on a focus victim get wiped off with no one to replace them and several seconds before they cool down.
I depend on RSP even in my support build. Or when RSP is on CD I use 2 or 3 other buffs simultaneously to tank. Getting hit with SNB is survivable when my abilities aren't on CD from healing, but it can make me pop in under a second if my abilities are cooling down or if I take damage too quickly afterward.
It's a lot less of an issue when someone else is also playing healer, because it doesn't matter so much if I get caught without any self defense. If *everyone* does a little healing/support, then the new SNB is really a lot easier to deal with than the old one. But it's still common to see 2 or 3 players on a team with goose eggs in the healing column.
You can't count on someone else to keep the team buffed anymore if you expect to ever win -- it doesn't just go for cruiser skippers, but science ships and even escorts. Starships are made of glass, so they need defensive buffs to survive more than 2 or 3 seconds. If you rely on a single player for your buffs then if those buffs get wiped off, you're screwed. 2 players buffing is better, but still risky. The only way to be fairly sure you'll live longer than 5 seconds is if everyone on your team has some sort of healing/buffing and uses it.
I'm not sure what the hell the big issue here is. What changes exactly in 1.1 have made cruisers worse? If anything, the streamlining of engine power controlling both turn and speed, removal of total and complete paralysis from VM, FBP no longer eating away at your hull suddenly when you broadside an enemy, and SNB no longer resulting in not being able to use any skills for upwards of a minute, all amount to pretty awesome changes to me. I have seen Star Cruiser captains as recently as yesterday when I was playing my first post-patch PvP missions (had to play 9 to finally get that stupid daily to finally complete....but that's for another topic) that were damn near invulnerable. It's actually a new tactic I'm seeing, I call it the "belligerent cruiser captain". Basically a guy has a star cruiser, brags about how unbeatable it is, and gets people to attack him away from the capture nodes. When they fail to destroy him, he laughs and taunts them by name. They come back for him, again, away from the nodes. So the star cruiser guy winds up basically tying up several of the enemy team while the guys actually playing the mission are outnumbered. It's pretty funny, and these guys really do wind up going through the match with 0 deaths.
But anyways, I am not really seeing WTF the problem is here. Is it people relying on RSP? I pvped before the patch quite well in T5 no less, in a galaxy class that only had ONE RSP on it...not to mention the decreased console slots, one less weapon, less HP, and less speed/maneuverability as compared to a true T5 cruiser. Even at that distinct disadvantage, I did quite well, and not in a supporting role. I would just fly in there and mix it up. I got kills, and took a hellish beating while doing it, but kept on going. Wasn't invincible of course, and the big 3 usually wound up making me remember that painfully. But seriously, even though there has been no end to the sci vessel cry-fest, what is it about CRUISERS that is so crappy after this patch? I'm not seeing it.
I'm not sure what the hell the big issue here is. What changes exactly in 1.1 have made cruisers worse? If anything, the streamlining of engine power controlling both turn and speed, removal of total and complete paralysis from VM, FBP no longer eating away at your hull suddenly when you broadside an enemy, and SNB no longer resulting in not being able to use any skills for upwards of a minute, all amount to pretty awesome changes to me. I have seen Star Cruiser captains as recently as yesterday when I was playing my first post-patch PvP missions (had to play 9 to finally get that stupid daily to finally complete....but that's for another topic) that were damn near invulnerable. It's actually a new tactic I'm seeing, I call it the "belligerent cruiser captain". Basically a guy has a star cruiser, brags about how unbeatable it is, and gets people to attack him away from the capture nodes. When they fail to destroy him, he laughs and taunts them by name. They come back for him, again, away from the nodes. So the star cruiser guy winds up basically tying up several of the enemy team while the guys actually playing the mission are outnumbered. It's pretty funny, and these guys really do wind up going through the match with 0 deaths.
But anyways, I am not really seeing WTF the problem is here. Is it people relying on RSP? I pvped before the patch quite well in T5 no less, in a galaxy class that only had ONE RSP on it...not to mention the decreased console slots, one less weapon, less HP, and less speed/maneuverability as compared to a true T5 cruiser. Even at that distinct disadvantage, I did quite well, and not in a supporting role. I would just fly in there and mix it up. I got kills, and took a hellish beating while doing it, but kept on going. Wasn't invincible of course, and the big 3 usually wound up making me remember that painfully. But seriously, even though there has been no end to the sci vessel cry-fest, what is it about CRUISERS that is so crappy after this patch? I'm not seeing it.
as inktomi said, SNB also strips alot of self buffs, which means that if SNB hits you at a bad time such as right after you use hazard emitters and engineering team, you lose alot of healing and resistance. a good team (or just two players and extend/other heals) can overcome this, but generally speaking - it doens't happen that often.
I find that I can generally match another cruiser thats specced for damage as a healer. the difference is that 90% of my build is meant for team surivability while the dps cruiser is often 90% tanking.
Oh, and most of the heals can be aimed at yourself. With the exception of extend, almost all of the skills can double as self-tanking in a pinch. Players are realizing this and being less greedy with the engineering slots, At least I would like to hope that is the case (it's probably not, but most of us wish it were)
Yes, SNB strips your buffs. But are we already forgetting old SNB which made you unable to use any abilities for upwards of a minute? I'd much rather lose the buffs I have on than be stuck unable to use any skills, buff or otherwise, for that long. None of the defensive abilities have that long a duration anyways. And since the SNB would be followed up by the VM, you'd be unable to move and shoot as well. So basically an ability that would REALLY TRIBBLE you over, now only kinda puts a dent in your day. Again, not seeing how cruisers are now rendered these gimpy cripple-boats that are only good for healing othersthat people are claiming here this new patch has turned them into.
I know I'm not exactly well known or listened to, but aaaaah asdgajhgdaj. Don't rely on RSP. It's a stopgap measure to give you a few seconds breathing space, nothing more. Work as hard as you can and just find some points to throw into deflectors and deflector field, and get those sci teams running. It's the best shield-heal in the game outside of extend. SciT2 is easily better than the top-level engi cpt RSF skill. Star cruisers are awesome for this, 2 haz consoles and a defl' field console, 2 sci teams and haz emitters. You won't be jamming or scrambling it up anytime soon, but you'll be headbutting escorts and laughing it off. Throw in an EmpShields 3, switch to shields, chuckle.
Save your RSP for -after- the SNB hits. Whistle a tune, work on your hull, decide who to murder next or just power to engines and fall back. The moment you treat RSP like it -is- your shields, you've lost.
And I don't understand why. My damage output is roughly the same, my healing is roughly the same.
Enemy player ships do not suddenly dish out more damage. I can no longer be disabled completely for long periods of time, I can no longer kill myself with a single broadside when someone pops FBP, I am no longer defenseless when VM'ed and Science Team is on cooldown.
My shields last slightly longer, although hardly noticable vs escorts.
The only downside is that an ability that only science captains have with a several minutes long cooldown can strip my buffs including RSP. Woopiedoo.
Yes cruisers can use some help compared to how good science ships and escorts are, but that was an issue before 1.1 and frankly has nothing to do with the new 1.1 patch.
Yes, you are right that in those respects PvP has improved a ton. And I'm happy with those changes, though SNB's cooldown effect needs to go, and teams do need a seperate cooldowns.
However, this Escort Bleedthrough is no different than old FBP. I just find it ironic people complained for months about old Feedback Pulse directly damaging the hull, and yet it's perfectly okay for Escorts to have that same effect with their normal cannon fire?
So, what exactly is so terrible about cruisers now?
- Escorts got buffed again due to new purple gear
- Science Vessels got nerfed to uselessness (everything they could do a cruiser or escort can do better)
I'm really interested, because from my observation, cruisers are still doing fine. Beam damage is even weaker compared to cannons now, though. So that might be an issue.
Yeah, Escorts are living large now, and people are replacing their escorts to PVP in.
Science ships didn't get nerfed. The new tactic is to jam to use up Sci Team, SNB to make cooldowns longer, and then fire Viral Matrix, where they can't use Engineering Team right away. :rolleyes:
I think there are problems with the damage output and all that. I think there are too many underpowered abilities, particular for Cruiser Captains. But that said, being the "floating repair yard" is not an underdog position. It is a valuable role in any team setup. It is useful if someone can really bring the repairs in ship-to-ship combat. There is nothing wrong with that. It turns you into the backbone - not an underdog - of any good team.
"Flaoting Repair yards" are good for Pre-made Teams, but not PuGs or Independents. Cruisers need to be as viable for independent players as much as Escorts and Science ships.
I started with an engineer on an escort and ran him till RA3 and made a new engineer toon that flew a science ship because the escort pops so quick. I ran the science ship to captain1 but then the constant nerfing made me wonder... I started another engineer and put him on a cruiser he is my most survivable toon. To be honest I have no idea why you started this thread, but cruiser fanbois seem to get all the love. Science got nerfed and now the escort is facing down the nerf bat, but the cruiser still is what it was and now turns faster with the 1.1 update that moved turn from Aux to Engines.
Afraid it's the Escorts who get all the love. Cruisers don't. The only thing we ever gotten was a tweek to our turn rates, in which our opponents also got increases to their turn rate as well. So really nothing changed. :rolleyes:
My point is that Escorts have an effect like old FBP which bypasses shields and RSP. And FBP was nerfed because of that effect.
I and my other cruiser fleetmates, compadres and other allies & such, were having an exceptionally good day in our cruisers yesterday. I'm struggling to understand where the complaints are coming from. =o
If you don't spend the points to boost your power settings, if you throw in the wrong consoles (if you don't use efficient engines imho ) and you don't buff up your sci-teams (carry two, fer srs) then you're a giant squishy balloon. But that 20% resist at 100 power... well. Unbuffed, simply switching to shields, I'm running at 120. That, plus RSF, plus either EmpShields / SciT, or EPS Transfer. Your shields will have huge, huge resistance to anything incoming, and you'll have enough raw power to laugh off the mightiest of Target Shields.
And if you keep your power levels over 110 when you're firing. You might not do the horribly nasty burst DPS of an escort, but personally I tend to play the offensive rather than healer role, and in a fleet grouping I'll either be right behind or 2nd behind the mightiest of our tac escorts. You can do some serious sustained damage. Power management is more important in a cruiser in general, more important this patch in general. I shall not demean any of you struggling boat-captains at all, but I think you might need to take more notice of stuff like that and where your skillpoints are. Peace & Love.
My ship runs 125 weapons 100 shields 45 Engines and 45 Auxillary, so it's not a problem with my systems. As I stated before, the problem is the new weapon bleedthrough damaging my hull through RSP, like old FBP.
Good sir, consider investing in Battle Strategy, a single 15/15 resist console, and Haz 1. Latent 20% hull resist to all damage, + the extra 30% & the HoT from Haz1, negates all but the most intense bleedthrough.
With the right point allocation, 2 EPS consoles, a plasma manifold and an armour console of your choice, is wonderfully viable. And none of us should enter PvP without a Haz skill, it's worth it's weight in gold. I stand by saying cruisers have benefitted from this latest patch more than any previous one, from the simple emphasis on power levels alone.
Comments
FBP is so laughably pathetic against cruisers now its hilarious.
oh, and I decided to stay using 3 cannons, 3 turrets, 2 torps, symettrically alinged because it has a harder hitting front arc.
just broke the nine key on this ****** hotel computer, lawls.
Doesn't that loadout cut your damage distance to 5k optimally? I thought cannons and turrets maxed damage at <5k but >5k the dmg falls off quickly.
I did around 10-12 matches tonight though, and we won only 1 of them. I think my survivability is slightly lower, but I can pin it on anything in particular.
im flying mostly at 100 shield power. and from that i can see that TSS is realy still out there and even more so. was left out of shields a lot because of it today. lots of tractors to. strange.
the role of the Cruiser atm is: Support your group as best as you can and make alot of damage! There is nothing nerfed or anything.. dunno.
Well thats some what correct, we are nothing but floating repair yards for Escorts and Science ships. Sort of like the old Jet Fighter Pilots vs Bomber Pilots. Escorts get all the points, while Cruisers get no love.
But really that shouldn't be it at all. Cruiser Captains are the core of Star Trek, and to have Cruisers become a major underdog is a diservice to Star Trek Fans.
Cruisers should be able to take the punishement of Escorts, not be their whipping boys.
And before WW2 many admirals thought there was no way an airplane could ever sink a battle ship.
But cruisers can beat escorts 1v1 they have to win the war of attrition or outlast the escort through defence (at least thats how it seems to me when I am on the losing end of the encounter). Some I cant seem to touch and others I go thru like a hot knife thru butter, so either the ones I cant touch are cheating somehow (wich I dont think) or the ones I kill within 3 seconds are bad PvPers or have the wrong set up. If your trying to survive against focus fire from multible escorts then you will need help form your team members.
Or got no tanking skills at all except 3-5 RSPs, and when they are gone he is gone.
Actually the change to shield-resistances grants a nice little bonus since patch to your survivability. You only need to pop Reverse Shield Frequency and increase your shieldpower and nothing will dent your shields anymore. Similar results with boosted science teams and co.
But one happy answer for you: They work on the crew-system, the problem that torpedos and explosions take away way too many crewmembers, so soon you will have a lot more able crewman repairing your hull.
Please don't start that flamebaiting nonsense, Tareq. There are a ton of Cruiser Captains that are furiousat the changes, who actually knew how to PvP in their Crusiers.
In fact, some of them are now rolling Escorts, since their Cruisers are useless in PvP now.
Yes, I fought Escorts 1 on 1 plenty fo times. But it doesn't change the fact that Escorts can shoot through shields more so than they use to be. So that makes Crusiers nothing but huge targets, much like those Aircraft sinking Battleships.
Why dont they just find out what the Cruisers that are doing well are using? Like I said some cruiser capt's are doing extremely well and some just dont seem to get it. We have a few people using cruisers in our fleet and they are a huge asset, and can take a pounding.
And I don't understand why. My damage output is roughly the same, my healing is roughly the same.
Enemy player ships do not suddenly dish out more damage. I can no longer be disabled completely for long periods of time, I can no longer kill myself with a single broadside when someone pops FBP, I am no longer defenseless when VM'ed and Science Team is on cooldown.
My shields last slightly longer, although hardly noticable vs escorts.
The only downside is that an ability that only science captains have with a several minutes long cooldown can strip my buffs including RSP. Woopiedoo.
Yes cruisers can use some help compared to how good science ships and escorts are, but that was an issue before 1.1 and frankly has nothing to do with the new 1.1 patch.
- Escorts got buffed again due to new purple gear
- Science Vessels got nerfed to uselessness (everything they could do a cruiser or escort can do better)
I'm really interested, because from my observation, cruisers are still doing fine. Beam damage is even weaker compared to cannons now, though. So that might be an issue.
I think there are problems with the damage output and all that. I think there are too many underpowered abilities, particular for Cruiser Captains. But that said, being the "floating repair yard" is not an underdog position. It is a valuable role in any team setup. It is useful if someone can really bring the repairs in ship-to-ship combat. There is nothing wrong with that. It turns you into the backbone - not an underdog - of any good team.
Not everyone likes this role. That is certainly an issue. There are lots of people that want to be the ones that kill things, and they are disappointed that the Cruiser cannot do that as well as other ships. But ultimiately, even with longer survivability, Cruisers will not be that. They will always be a type of support ship. But don't mistake "support" for a secondary role. It's a crucial role, and it should and can be just as challenging, fun and important as any other role.. It's still not a role for everyone. And it might be that Cruisers still don't have the necessary mix of options and survivability required to make it as challenging, fun and important as it could be.
Actually Escorts got a new problem, Feedback pulse affects cannons too.
Errrr, not exactly, no, FBP1 does not deter anyone, and it's the only version of FBP that fits in any cruiser(max. lieutenant science station).
But as for the topic itself, I haven't noticed any problems playing my cruiser so far.
The only thing that changed is that I have Photonic Officer I now to mitigate the absence of a science team if I get subnuked for some obscure reason. Yep that's right, I've no science teams. I rely on my group for those if I need one. It's because it's very inconvenient if my engineering team 3's are on cooldown.
I'm an interactive healing robot, I think. It can be very annoying though when some people, particularly in PUGs, decide to scoot out of my healing range for no particular reason except fear.
Usually the better escorts realize that if I'm healing them, it takes quite a bit to kill them, and they prefer to stay close to me instead.
I think a member of our fleet would like to say a few well-chosen words for whoever it was that claimed that science vessels have become useless.
I might have heard that science team 3, hazard emitters, and energy siphon/tyken's rift go a long way towards draining subsystems... and keeping your team alive... and then there's FBP3.... HMMMMM.
I started with an engineer on an escort and ran him till RA3 and made a new engineer toon that flew a science ship because the escort pops so quick. I ran the science ship to captain1 but then the constant nerfing made me wonder... I started another engineer and put him on a cruiser he is my most survivable toon. To be honest I have no idea why you started this thread, but cruiser fanbois seem to get all the love. Science got nerfed and now the escort is facing down the nerf bat, but the cruiser still is what it was and now turns faster with the 1.1 update that moved turn from Aux to Engines.
If you don't spend the points to boost your power settings, if you throw in the wrong consoles (if you don't use efficient engines imho
And if you keep your power levels over 110 when you're firing. You might not do the horribly nasty burst DPS of an escort, but personally I tend to play the offensive rather than healer role, and in a fleet grouping I'll either be right behind or 2nd behind the mightiest of our tac escorts. You can do some serious sustained damage. Power management is more important in a cruiser in general, more important this patch in general. I shall not demean any of you struggling boat-captains at all, but I think you might need to take more notice of stuff like that and where your skillpoints are. Peace & Love.
Yes I know 3+ RSP was always bad for organized pvp but after hearing some cruiser captains complain today in PUG matches I think I know which ones are having a hard time.
Ok so here it goes and again, this is coming from a PUG perpestive:
Forget stacking RSP after the patch. Just scrap it right now and retrain/swap out your BO's. RSP can be stripped so easily it's almost worthless and even more so when you stack them. Sci captains were laughing when confronting cruisers who haven't changed their multi-RSP setup.
After the patch you pretty much HAVE to play support as a cruiser... period. I know this was always the case in organized PvP but now even in PUG play that green circle that made you feel safe is now a big "SHOOT ME WITH SNB" sign and the SCI captains are loving it.
I used to roll with 3x RSP I admit. It was fun while it lasted especially on the cap+hold maps where I could park my fat butt on a capture point and take anybody on 1v1 even 2v1 when the game was coming down to the wire. Now I just follow an escort or sci ship around and spam extend shields in PUGS.
For me, the good and the bad I guess is that I admit, my new support role doesn't feel as fun. I don't feel like a battleship anymore. Having said that though, I'm getting a LOT more "thanks man" and it is kinda cool when you bring back a team member from the brink of death.
Personally I still carry three solo, two in the extra-supporty build. There isn't always a sci captain around, but you should defo not rely on it for more than a few seconds breather anyway. Good to give you a moment to patch up your hull if a burst got through, but that's about it. Work on keeping shields up by any other means, and try to save it until after the sci captain's got frustrated and SNB'd you.
The only issue I'm really seeing as a support build is that in PUGs I'm usually the *only* player supporting. The counter to SNB is for everyone on the team to do a little healing and buffing, because if you're relying on one player to carry the team, then the team is screwed if that player gets hit with SNB and focus fire, or if all the buffs that player just put on a focus victim get wiped off with no one to replace them and several seconds before they cool down.
I depend on RSP even in my support build. Or when RSP is on CD I use 2 or 3 other buffs simultaneously to tank. Getting hit with SNB is survivable when my abilities aren't on CD from healing, but it can make me pop in under a second if my abilities are cooling down or if I take damage too quickly afterward.
It's a lot less of an issue when someone else is also playing healer, because it doesn't matter so much if I get caught without any self defense. If *everyone* does a little healing/support, then the new SNB is really a lot easier to deal with than the old one. But it's still common to see 2 or 3 players on a team with goose eggs in the healing column.
You can't count on someone else to keep the team buffed anymore if you expect to ever win -- it doesn't just go for cruiser skippers, but science ships and even escorts. Starships are made of glass, so they need defensive buffs to survive more than 2 or 3 seconds. If you rely on a single player for your buffs then if those buffs get wiped off, you're screwed. 2 players buffing is better, but still risky. The only way to be fairly sure you'll live longer than 5 seconds is if everyone on your team has some sort of healing/buffing and uses it.
But anyways, I am not really seeing WTF the problem is here. Is it people relying on RSP? I pvped before the patch quite well in T5 no less, in a galaxy class that only had ONE RSP on it...not to mention the decreased console slots, one less weapon, less HP, and less speed/maneuverability as compared to a true T5 cruiser. Even at that distinct disadvantage, I did quite well, and not in a supporting role. I would just fly in there and mix it up. I got kills, and took a hellish beating while doing it, but kept on going. Wasn't invincible of course, and the big 3 usually wound up making me remember that painfully. But seriously, even though there has been no end to the sci vessel cry-fest, what is it about CRUISERS that is so crappy after this patch? I'm not seeing it.
as inktomi said, SNB also strips alot of self buffs, which means that if SNB hits you at a bad time such as right after you use hazard emitters and engineering team, you lose alot of healing and resistance. a good team (or just two players and extend/other heals) can overcome this, but generally speaking - it doens't happen that often.
I find that I can generally match another cruiser thats specced for damage as a healer. the difference is that 90% of my build is meant for team surivability while the dps cruiser is often 90% tanking.
Oh, and most of the heals can be aimed at yourself. With the exception of extend, almost all of the skills can double as self-tanking in a pinch. Players are realizing this and being less greedy with the engineering slots, At least I would like to hope that is the case (it's probably not, but most of us wish it were)
Save your RSP for -after- the SNB hits. Whistle a tune, work on your hull, decide who to murder next or just power to engines and fall back. The moment you treat RSP like it -is- your shields, you've lost.
Yes, you are right that in those respects PvP has improved a ton. And I'm happy with those changes, though SNB's cooldown effect needs to go, and teams do need a seperate cooldowns.
However, this Escort Bleedthrough is no different than old FBP. I just find it ironic people complained for months about old Feedback Pulse directly damaging the hull, and yet it's perfectly okay for Escorts to have that same effect with their normal cannon fire?
Yeah, Escorts are living large now, and people are replacing their escorts to PVP in.
Science ships didn't get nerfed. The new tactic is to jam to use up Sci Team, SNB to make cooldowns longer, and then fire Viral Matrix, where they can't use Engineering Team right away. :rolleyes:
"Flaoting Repair yards" are good for Pre-made Teams, but not PuGs or Independents. Cruisers need to be as viable for independent players as much as Escorts and Science ships.
True. But cannon fire on a Science Ship with new FBP3, its not really a major threat as it once was for beam boats.
Afraid it's the Escorts who get all the love. Cruisers don't. The only thing we ever gotten was a tweek to our turn rates, in which our opponents also got increases to their turn rate as well. So really nothing changed. :rolleyes:
My point is that Escorts have an effect like old FBP which bypasses shields and RSP. And FBP was nerfed because of that effect.
My ship runs 125 weapons 100 shields 45 Engines and 45 Auxillary, so it's not a problem with my systems. As I stated before, the problem is the new weapon bleedthrough damaging my hull through RSP, like old FBP.
With the right point allocation, 2 EPS consoles, a plasma manifold and an armour console of your choice, is wonderfully viable. And none of us should enter PvP without a Haz skill, it's worth it's weight in gold. I stand by saying cruisers have benefitted from this latest patch more than any previous one, from the simple emphasis on power levels alone.