test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Why is space easier than ground with the difficulty slider?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
On the "normal" setting, ground and space seem about the same to me as far as difficulty go. TBH, neither one is very difficult at all on normal, but at least their equally so. However, with the difficulty slider ground seems to become more difficult than space. Is this intended? If so, is this how people want it? Shouldnt both ground and space be approximately equal at whatever setting you have it?
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    In the thread about the death penalty, Phoxe and the devs complained that people weren't actually logging onto the test server and testing the changes.

    So we did. And many of us mentioned the problems with ground combat on Advanced and Elite. So you know what Cryptic did to address this problem?

    Nothing.

    Good thing we tested it for them, huh?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Simple answer: Unlike on the ground, when in space you are not trying to herd cats while attacking the enemy. You have control over what abilities are being used and when, and overall have much better controll over the flow of an engagement.

    On the ground... yeah, herding cats.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    HyenaZERO wrote: »
    Simple answer: Unlike on the ground, when in space you are not trying to herd cats while attacking the enemy. You have control over what abilities are being used and when, and overall have much better controll over the flow of an engagement.

    On the ground... yeah, herding cats.

    Maybe for you, but thats not the case for me. I tell my BOs exactly where to stand, and thats where they stay. I tell them all to attack my target, and thats what they do. That being the case, theres no real reason ground should be more difficult than space, mechanic wise. On elite setting on the ground, you can die in 3/4 hits. It takes a bit more to kill you in space.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Maybe for you, but thats not the case for me. I tell my BOs exactly where to stand, and thats where they stay. I tell them all to attack my target, and thats what they do. That being the case, theres no real reason ground should be more difficult than space, mechanic wise. On elite setting on the ground, you can die in 3/4 hits. It takes a bit more to kill you in space.

    I believe its because they hadn't really sorted-out the ground balance yet for the sliders, since essentially damage types movement, and mob hp are all improved, it had the side-effect of making some mobs downright killer.

    Although, I'd certainly prefer having the option of playing on a higher difficulty on holodeck, even if bugged, as opposed to playing on normal difficulty anyway.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    my boffs are about as useful as a TOS redshirt on the bround on elite. so far i'm doing better popping two sets of security escorts than even remotely relying on my actual crew.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    On the "normal" setting, ground and space seem about the same to me as far as difficulty go. TBH, neither one is very difficult at all on normal, but at least their equally so. However, with the difficulty slider ground seems to become more difficult than space. Is this intended? If so, is this how people want it? Shouldnt both ground and space be approximately equal at whatever setting you have it?

    How many skill points have you invested in ground skills? Players who have ignored ground skills are going to suck in Advanced and Elite on the ground.

    Either spend skill points in ground, or get used to dying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Maybe for you, but thats not the case for me.




    Does that answer your question? YMMV. Maybe you're just better at space combat. Maybe you suck at ground combat.

    Difficulty between the two playstyles is very relative and very subjective. What's easier for you may be harder for someone else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pasquatic wrote:
    How many skill points have you invested in ground skills? Players who have ignored ground skills are going to suck in Advanced and Elite on the ground.

    Either spend skill points in ground, or get used to dying.

    I myself took the ground skills that enhance my weapons. Today I had a mission where I had to take on the Borg. Had the slider on advanced, to get used to it. The only time I died is when I got a bit over confident and didn't watch my shields.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pasquatic wrote:
    How many skill points have you invested in ground skills? Players who have ignored ground skills are going to suck in Advanced and Elite on the ground.

    Either spend skill points in ground, or get used to dying.

    Your forgetting one little detail(which I actually mentioned in the OP, so you shouldnt have forgot already): ground and space are equally easy to me on the normal setting. If it had simply ignored ground like you suggest, then ground SHOULD be more challenging to me even on the normal setting. But its not. Again, their both approximately equal on normal, so they should be approximately equal on any setting...if the settings were done right. However, as someone else has already mentioned, it seems that the Devs were not able to get that balanced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Maybe you're just better at space combat.

    See last post.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Your forgetting one little detail(which I actually mentioned in the OP, so you shouldnt have forgot already): ground and space are equally easy to me on the normal setting. If it had simply ignored ground like you suggest, then ground SHOULD be more challenging to me even on the normal setting. But its not. Again, their both approximately equal on normal, so they should be approximately equal on any setting...if the settings were done right. However, as someone else has already mentioned, it seems that the Devs were not able to get that balanced.

    That's completely irrelevant since both ground and space are easy on Normal. Again, either spend skill points on ground skills, between 25% and 33% of your total skills, or get used to eating dirt on ground missions. The only thing you're really telling us is that you don't know how to play the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pasquatic wrote:
    That's completely irrelevant since both ground and space are easy on Normal.

    How is it irrelevant? The difficulty slider should increase the difficulty of both ground and space equally for each level. If ground and space are both easy to a person with my skillpoints on normal, then when I increase to advanced they should both increase in difficulty approximately the same amount. Once again, if my skillpoints were really as unbalanced as you think then ground SHOULD be somewhat harder than space even on normal. But it isnt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    How is it irrelevant? The difficulty slider should increase the difficulty of both ground and space equally for each level. If ground and space are both easy to a person with my skillpoints on normal, then when I increase to advanced they should both increase in difficulty approximately the same amount. Once again, if my skillpoints were really as unbalanced as you think then ground SHOULD be somewhat harder than space even on normal. But it isnt.

    On Normal, all you need is a kit in a ground combat. Admit that you haven't spent any points on ground skills, accept that you have to spend points on ground skills if you want to play ground missions on Advanced or Elite, and get your butt to a Respec NPC and spend your points.

    If you choose not to fix your character, at least stop whining about your own failure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pasquatic wrote:
    Admit that you haven't spent any points on ground skills,

    Actually, I currently have 4 full ground boxes. To be completely honest, you sound as if you havent even tested what I'm talking about, because the majority of those who have admit ground and space seem to be unbalanced. In fact, as the first person who replied in this thread said, this was brought to the Devs attention when this was still on Tribble. Do you even test?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Actually, I currently have 4 full ground boxes. To be completely honest, you sound as if you havent even tested what I'm talking about, because the majority of those who have admit ground and space seem to be unbalanced. In fact, as the first person who replied in this thread said, this was brought to the Devs attention when this was still on Tribble. Do you even test?

    I don't have issues on the ground because, unlike the kiddies who thing they have to have rank 9 in every space skill and won't spend points in ground skills, I've spec'd for both ground and space. Maths is not hard for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pasquatic wrote:
    I don't have issues on the ground because, unlike the kiddies who thing they have to have rank 9 in every space skill and won't spend points in ground skills, I've spec'd for both ground and space. Maths is not hard for me.

    That didnt sound like a direct answer, so I'll ask you again: have you actually tested space and ground on elite, and if so are you saying they both have the same level of difficulty?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Your forgetting one little detail(which I actually mentioned in the OP, so you shouldnt have forgot already): ground and space are equally easy to me on the normal setting. If it had simply ignored ground like you suggest, then ground SHOULD be more challenging to me even on the normal setting. But its not. Again, their both approximately equal on normal, so they should be approximately equal on any setting...if the settings were done right. However, as someone else has already mentioned, it seems that the Devs were not able to get that balanced.


    You're assuming that just because two things are equal at one point they must be equal at another.

    I can drive in forward and reverse equally well at 30 MPH.

    Increase that speed to 60 MPH and I drive much better forward than in reverse.

    Since they're equal at 30 your logic dictates that they be equal at 60. My analogy points out the fault in that logic.

    You're very argumentitive, so I've a feeling you'll simply say this isn't valid for one reason or another, but the truth is, your skills between one style of play and another different style of play can't be compared as though they're the same style of play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I can drive in forward and reverse equally well at 30 MPH.

    I'm sorry, but that simply isnt true so theres no point even reading further.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    That didnt sound like a direct answer, so I'll ask you again: have you actually tested space and ground on elite, and if so are you saying they both have the same level of difficulty?

    I have tested and given that they are two completely different combat types I don't find any problem. But then again I didn't spec solely for space like a little kid.
    I'm sorry, but that simply isnt true so theres no point even reading further.

    Just because he can drive and you can't makes it untrue? You really are narrow minded. Respec, or at least stop whining.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Basically, I think they increased things by a flat percentage for mobs, on ground and in space.

    While the increased damage is still manageable in space, the same percentage (say, from those nasty dual-pistol type mobs) tips it past the breaking point of shield recharge/healing, etc. on the ground.

    There are two different dynamics at play, so there's really no reason why they should both function just as well if they're completely different gameplay mechanics.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I tell them all to attack my target, and thats what they do.

    There's your problem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    speaking for myself i found normal is unbalanced. on normal i can easily leave the computer and go make a coffee during ground combat knowing my boffs would clean everything up without me but i always had to keep focussed in space. now i just have to keep focussed on both ground and space. i'm dieing about the same rate on ground and space now on elite, whereas on normal i'd die in space a whole lot more than ground.

    though i'm not saying nagus' experience should mirror mine or anyone elses for that matter. there's a crapload of variables from kits to boff abilities to consumables that really have to be taken into account if we're to really compare why we're seeing something different.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Your forgetting one little detail(which I actually mentioned in the OP, so you shouldnt have forgot already): ground and space are equally easy to me on the normal setting. If it had simply ignored ground like you suggest, then ground SHOULD be more challenging to me even on the normal setting. But its not. Again, their both approximately equal on normal, so they should be approximately equal on any setting...if the settings were done right. However, as someone else has already mentioned, it seems that the Devs were not able to get that balanced.

    What makes you assume that they were about equal?

    The time it take to wipe a ground mob is far longer than a space one (for and many other players)

    This could mean:
    1) they had more health/shields to begin (meaning a longer fight when they use more abilities in later difficulties will be exponentially worse)
    2) since players direct control of abilities less on ground (than in space) that BOFF AI needs improvement
    3) ground skills need just as many points to be viable on hard/elite - as enemies use more powers than they otherwise could
    4) something I haven't thought of.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I agree, Ground seems extremely hard.

    I did not skill my ground char to be a DPS dealer who BUFFS BUFFS BUFFS but to be a supporter with Support Drones, Turrets, Generators and... that is not working for me in PVP nor is it working for me in Elite PVE. It takes forever to place those things, they are easily destroyed and i cant even move or shoot whily they beam down... in a looong sequence that takes foreeever.


    It works good in Fleetactions and in STF's if the other players have Aggro and i am happy with that build.


    But i still want to play Elite in Space!

    So... easyiest solution, give me 2 difficulty sliders, one for ground, one for space.

    I promise i will not make the mistake again to make an Support-Char on my next Alt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Maybe for you, but thats not the case for me. I tell my BOs exactly where to stand, and thats where they stay. I tell them all to attack my target, and thats what they do. That being the case, theres no real reason ground should be more difficult than space, mechanic wise. On elite setting on the ground, you can die in 3/4 hits. It takes a bit more to kill you in space.


    I tried advanced setting today and in ground i was getting killed in 2 hits. taking 900 damage from a compression bolt then a 900 damage lunge. you can tell your bo exactly what to do and when to do it but nothing is going to help you when on advanced mobs can two shot you. a challenge is good making it a 1 in a million chance to kill them before you die is not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pasquatic wrote:
    How many skill points have you invested in ground skills? Players who have ignored ground skills are going to suck in Advanced and Elite on the ground.

    Either spend skill points in ground, or get used to dying.

    I haver a ton of points invested in ground skills. And I find sometimes ground combat is impossible. I have completed some ground missions on elite. Those missions seemed about right as far is an elite mission. They were so hard but with some thought you can do them. However there are some missions that seem unbeatable. You engage the enemy and almost instantly you and your team are dead. I can't imagine this is just some sort of bug in the slider system. Equally some ships I have encountered are simply unbeatable. I am not saying I'm Mr. Awesome at playing this game, but i feel I can tell the difference between uber difficult and way to powerful.


    Overall I still love the new slider system soooo much. there just seems to be some balancing issues yet to figure out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I partially agree. The "regular" ground mobs on Advanced are tougher but doable.

    The difference comes when you get a boss type figure on the ground. I did a Romulan ground map yesterday on Advanced. Made it through the mission up to the last mob. Up to that point the mission had been noticably tougher, but still doable.

    Then - hello Captain Guard!

    This guy was seemingly able to wipe me and my boffs out in under 15 seconds. No joke. This was with my most offense based kit (I'm science).

    So this time with a medic kit I decided to try again and instead I would just try to heal my boffs from the sidelines. Again we were wiped by this guy in a matter of seconds. None of my heals could even come close to keeping up with the damage this guy was putting out. He was spawing psionic mobs that appeared to be full strength critters and there was no way on earth that he could be taken down.

    This guy was waaaay out of whack with the rest of the mission. I don't mind a drawn out fight that requires tactics - but when a single enemey is able to obliterate your entire team in a matter of seconds thats something else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    err... how do you access this difficult slider?
    I still can't find it in any of my settings page :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I participated in the testing on Tribble just before 1.1 went live.

    Elite seems much harder on live than it was on test, espcially on the Ground.
    I have invested a lot of Ground Skill points, use tactics etc.

    On Tribble, my green LT-led team could take out the Ground opposition with a struggle, which seemed fair.
    We couldn't take out the final boss team at all, which also seemd fair, because my BO's had only basic issue gear.

    1.1 then goes Live.
    So I tried a couple of Ground missions on Elite.

    My specced-up, Coomander-led Away Team tried taking on some common variety Klingons.
    As soon as we started shooting, 3 of the 5 Klingons came straight for ME, ignoring the BO's.

    I lasted about 5 seconds, and the BO's were picked off within a minute after that. I tried this 3 more times, with slightly differing tactics. Same result each time.

    What's going on?
Sign In or Register to comment.