test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Selling off new game mechanics now?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
http://store.steampowered.com/app/9900/

http://www.direct2drive.com/8782/product/Buy-Star-Trek-Online-Download

...what?

Back before release I was iffy about the TR-116 shoot-through-walls rifle and the automatic defense turret... now they're using unique mechanics as a marketing ploy. I suppose the slippery-slope people were right. What's next, auctioning off new BO powers?
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Those have been available for a while now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Those have been available for a while now.

    I only just now found out about them. Otherwise, I'd have been complaining earlier.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I only just now found out about them. Otherwise, I'd have been complaining earlier.

    Could you explain what you specifically are complaining about? I ask, cause I am unsure what the issue is. (Not saying your wrong, just wanting clarification.)


    I have the converter and its not a bad little device, especially at the beginning levels but there are better stuff when you get higher.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Could you explain what you specifically are complaining about? I ask, cause I am unsure what the issue is. (Not saying your wrong, just wanting clarification.)


    I have the converter and its not a bad little device, especially at the beginning levels but there are better stuff when you get higher.

    Radiometric Converter: change incoming damage into universal system power. Unique game mechanic inaccessible through any other means.

    Phaser Turret thingy: drop a turret in space like engineers do on the ground. Unique game mechanic inaccessible through other means.

    My objection is two-pronged.
    • Weaksauce or not, these are still utterly unique game mechanics.
    • Having these sorts of effects (balanced to an 'actual' power) available as options in normal gameplay would enrich the experience. Why, since the tech is obviously there to implement them as a throwaway marketing ploy, aren't any new 'stuff to use' even in planning (per the Engineering Reports list) for the main game itself?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Would be nice if they put them all in the C-store. This promo item stink has gone on for far too long.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010

    Phaser Turret thingy: drop a turret in space like engineers do on the ground. Unique game mechanic inaccessible through other means.

    I think you're misreading that. The turret fits into a tactical console slot and autofires when a ship/torpedo/mine is within its firing range. It doesn't drop like a mine or anything.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Radiometric Converter: change incoming damage into universal system power. Unique game mechanic inaccessible through any other means.

    Phaser Turret thingy: drop a turret in space like engineers do on the ground. Unique game mechanic inaccessible through other means.

    My objection is two-pronged.
    • Weaksauce or not, these are still utterly unique game mechanics.
    • Having these sorts of effects (balanced to an 'actual' power) available as options in normal gameplay would enrich the experience. Why, since the tech is obviously there to implement them as a throwaway marketing ploy, aren't any new 'stuff to use' even in planning (per the Engineering Reports list) for the main game itself?

    Ya know, I actually agree with him.

    I was content to let those that pay for em get their nifty little pets and emotes, cosmetic stuff n all, but it's gone beyond just little bonuses. The point defense turret is still used in end game for shooting down mines and plasma/tricobalt torps (unlike my borg shield preorder... I sure backed the wrong horse there).

    Haven't seen the eps console in action, but sure looks nice in game. Pity this creativity is wasted on silly bonus items... unless this is "testing the waters" material.

    Oh, and the point defense turret isn't a deployable, it's used on your ship, like a mini xtra turret which is always on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Both of these are listed as 'Mk I' items. There is no reason why a Mk II (or higher) item may appear in the game someday... Both of these items sound 'useful', but by no means 'required' or 'necessary' to play the game... (Not like a 'EPS Flow Regulator' for a Beam/Cannon happy ship player... I've also been able to get Star Base 24 top scores with a Connie equipped with all Common equipment...)

    It seems that your main complaint is that you have to spend $$$ for these items, and not Energy Credits.. (just like you have to spend money for the 'Kahn Emote', the 'Rivera' Tribble, the Red Matter Capacitor, and the Automated Defense Turret...)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    plexaura wrote:
    Would be nice if they put them all in the C-store. This promo item stink has gone on for far too long.

    No, it wouldn't be any better, because then it would just be explicitly paying for unique powers rather than fuzzily as part of a certain game version. I think both are bad, but sticking them in the C-store would be more overt and brazen.
    haplo48 wrote: »
    I think you're misreading that. The turret fits into a tactical console slot and autofires when a ship/torpedo/mine is within its firing range. It doesn't drop like a mine or anything.

    Two different things.

    You're thinking of the point defense turret console that comes with all purchases of the DDE (though I'm not exactly sanguine about that one either, and feel like a TRIBBLE using it before I get my hands on any proper tactical consoles). Its function can be replicated by paying attention and/or dropping mines to serve as an intercepting barrier.

    The thing in the Steam link is an actual deployable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Both of these are listed as 'Mk I' items. There is no reason why a Mk II (or higher) item may appear in the game someday... Both of these items sound 'useful', but by no means 'required' or 'necessary' to play the game... (Not like a 'EPS Flow Regulator' for a Beam/Cannon happy ship player... I've also been able to get Star Base 24 top scores with a Connie equipped with all Common equipment...)

    It seems that your main complaint is that you have to spend $$$ for these items, and not Energy Credits.. (just like you have to spend money for the 'Kahn Emote', the 'Rivera' Tribble, the Red Matter Capacitor, and the Automated Defense Turret...)

    The Red Matter Capacitor and the Automated Defense Turret don't make me happy either. For that matter, neither do paying in the C-Store for alien species with unique species bonuses rather than just a certain cosmetic look and label.

    Required or necessary, no, but they're not just cosmetic either. It's paying real money for an in-game advantage, however slight or gimmicky. While the Slippery Slope is usually a fallacious argument it stops being one when the behavior is observed to actually progress, and it seems like these 'promo items' are getting more and more brazenly game-affecting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I suppose you didn't see the EMH that was offered for a one weekend sale at Atari? It was just a space console, mind you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I suppose you didn't see the EMH that was offered for a one weekend sale at Atari? It was just a space console, mind you.

    I saw it, and was also annoyed by it. But to my knowledge it wasn't a unique effect, just a massive bonus to crew recovery?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well, to be fair, I've seen Blizzard use a lot of art assets or mechanics first in a paid cosmetic item and then retrofit it into the game.

    This shouldn't be competitive at endgame and it's a new mechanic we'll hopefully see in-game as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well, to be fair, I've seen Blizzard use a lot of art assets or mechanics first in a paid cosmetic item and then retrofit it into the game.

    This shouldn't be competitive at endgame and it's a new mechanic we'll hopefully see in-game as well.

    I don't care about endgame or even competitiveness for that matter. They're still things you can't do in the game unless you make a specific purchase. Emotes and flying mounts don't clear away mines, draw enemy fire, or give you buffs.

    It's a matter of integrity and I haven't been happy with the different bonus-granting purchase items from day one, but these two new items feel like a direct slap in the face and confirm for me that the idea of a level playing field has been thrown under a bus.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Dude, that steam turret is just a regular ship-based turret. It doesn't go in the tactical slot either. You get better gear in-game as a Lieutenant.

    This isn't new functionality. ANY ship that can equip turrets, can still equip turrets.

    Talk about tempest in a teapot.

    Just be grateful it isn't a $20 My-Little-Pony that in-game benefits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    No, it wouldn't be any better, because then it would just be explicitly paying for unique powers rather than fuzzily as part of a certain game version. I think both are bad, but sticking them in the C-store would be more overt and brazen.

    I suppose putting them in the C-store is more visible, but the two acts are the same in principle. My personal preference is for more accessibility. The best case scenario would be if they put similar item mechanics in game for free, but I don't think that's going to happen until these items lose their status of being "omg-promo-exclusive."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Dude, that steam turret is just a regular ship-based turret. It doesn't go in the tactical slot either. You get better gear in-game as a Lieutenant.

    This isn't new functionality. ANY ship that can equip turrets, can still equip turrets.

    Talk about tempest in a teapot.

    Just be grateful it isn't a $20 My-Little-Pony that in-game benefits.

    Your information is incorrect. See here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Dude, that steam turret is just a regular ship-based turret. It doesn't go in the tactical slot either. You get better gear in-game as a Lieutenant.

    This isn't new functionality. ANY ship that can equip turrets, can still equip turrets.

    Talk about tempest in a teapot.

    Just be grateful it isn't a $20 My-Little-Pony that in-game benefits.
    See this thread, started by someone who evidently has one of these devices... http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=153776
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/9900/

    http://www.direct2drive.com/8782/product/Buy-Star-Trek-Online-Download

    ...what?

    Back before release I was iffy about the TR-116 shoot-through-walls rifle and the automatic defense turret... now they're using unique mechanics as a marketing ploy. I suppose the slippery-slope people were right. What's next, auctioning off new BO powers?

    The Steam item seems to be worse than the tactical console. If it's an item you "deploy" it can be targeted by enemies. It also has the limitation that mines have in that it can be avoided. It just doesn't seem that good.

    The D2D item ... seems fascinating. Like an RSP on a console. That's ... unique.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    See this thread, started by someone who evidently has one of these devices... http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=153776

    Oh wow. Thanks for the link. Those items are pretty horrid in terms of gameplay. Less useful than the red matter device. 10 minute cooldown on an easily destroyed space turret? /eek
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Welcome to the world of Microtransaction gaming.

    I don't like it either, but regrettibly it's very profitable and moving into the MMO gamespace.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Your information is incorrect. See here.

    I was incorrect. It is a tactical console slot turret.

    While I will now concede that it is unique, its usefulness is negligible.

    (I just equipped it on my alt - sold the one on my main for a better tactical console around Lt Commander - now use +25 consoles to boost total tetryon damage all around - i.e. if +25 damage to my 4 tetryons is a net of 100 extra damage).

    Unique != better.

    The slippery slope argument, however, should be noted as a classical, informal logical fallacy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ok, now i am getting angry...

    i have bought the Steam Version as Pre Order months ago!
    NOW they have the new item, but i do not recieve it because i bought it to early???

    This SUX... and now i am going on a Rampage in the Steam forums, l8r.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Z3R0B4NG wrote: »
    ok, now i am getting angry...

    i have bought the Steam Version as Pre Order months ago!
    NOW they have the new item, but i do not recieve it because i bought it to early???

    This SUX... and now i am going on a Rampage in the Steam forums, l8r.
    It should be available for free as a "Special Unlock" on the C-store, dude.

    I bought my copy off Steam a pre-order too (I'm a beta participant).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I was incorrect. It is a tactical console slot turret.

    While I will now concede that it is unique, its usefulness is negligible.

    (I just equipped it on my alt - sold the one on my main for a better tactical console around Lt Commander - now use +25 consoles to boost total tetryon damage all around - i.e. if +25 damage to my 4 tetryons is a net of 100 extra damage).

    Unique != better.

    The slippery slope argument, however, should be noted as a classical, informal logical fallacy.

    It is a unique gameplay element. That it's absolute **** just makes it a crappy violation of Cryptic's stated principle that anything that affects gameplay will actually be available through in-game means.

    It's not really a slippery slope argument at this point. They've already stated principles and violated them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    yes omg it bost your power .00000001.5 percent it will make you a space pvp god no man will be able to best you you will have green women laying at your feet to please you. and then you woke up lol it just like the point defence turret and its 45 damage it will make you op:)). giving a ship with buffed truns states of hull or power is one thing. but the things you talk of are of no real ehlp in game just like ship skins thier may be aomg factor but no real help
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It is a unique gameplay element. That it's absolute **** just makes it a crappy violation of Cryptic's stated principle that anything that affects gameplay will actually be available through in-game means.

    It's not really a slippery slope argument at this point. They've already stated principles and violated them.
    Nope, it's just a matter of semantics. I don't think any of these items affect gameplay. The bonuses I get from other items are just as good, if not better, than these Mk I low-end items. And shooting Heavy Plasma Torpedoes out of space generally isn't that hard (unless you get point-blanked or stuck in a Viral Matrix, which the in-game item wouldn't help with anyhow).

    We're talking about Mk I items. Ask me how much I use my pre-order Connie these days :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It is a unique gameplay element. That it's absolute **** just makes it a crappy violation of Cryptic's stated principle that anything that affects gameplay will actually be available through in-game means.

    It's not really a slippery slope argument at this point. They've already stated principles and violated them.

    The features it has are unique for a tactical console. However, there are far better tactical consoles.

    I'm not sure what all the furor is about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    and omg forgot its not a game mechanic its a item for a slot on your ship. game mechanics is part of how a game works like skills and thier effects just though id clear that up
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It should be available for free as a "Special Unlock" on the C-store, dude.

    I bought my copy off Steam a pre-order too (I'm a beta participant).

    nope, nothing there but the "Automated Defense Battery" from the DDE.


    Digital Deluxe Edition:

    Unique Ship Item: Automated Defense Battery. This Tactical Module grants any ship a passive 360 arc attack power with a short range.

    Normal Edition:

    Now includes a Steam-exclusive Phaser Turret – This Tactical Station Mod allows you to deploy a small space phaser turret.



    i can see where this is heading, i have the DDE not the *normal* one...

    ...well my steam rampage is over, made a ticket and a thread in the forum, lets see what happens.
Sign In or Register to comment.