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New player here and I just don't get the griping...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Yep, only been playing for about a week. If I recall correctly this game came out about five months ago and actually a little prematurely. Regardless of the early release and the somewhat unfinished feel, I still don't understand all the negativity I see from some posters here. Most of these folks know it's practically brand spanking new, so why not give it some time to flesh out?

I'm glad to see a lot of positivity, too. I suppose I want to see this game do well because I want to be playing it for quite a while. :)
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    STO is a good game. It's pretty new and will flesh out over time (like every other MMO launch out there). Some people post valid concerns and ideas while there is a core of general naysayers. They rant and troll until the go to a new MMO and try and destroy it. After awhile, their names become so familiar that you don't even need to read their posts. They're all the same anyway.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's like the old axiom about customer service, people typically share unpleasant experiences at 10 times the rate they share pleasant ones.

    Forums for any game are drastically weighted towards people with problems. Sure, there's lots of constructive suggestions and ideas here too, but in general there's very little psychological incentive to come to forum to say you like the game. If you are mad about something, the forum offers you the biggest subject-specific audience for your rage performance, so you post a long rage thread and feel better about yourself or maybe not.

    I think most of the people who enjoy the game just go about enjoying it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Once you hit RA5 you will understand. The game is basically over once you get there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sleeves wrote:
    Once you hit RA5 you will understand. The game is basically over once you get there.

    As someone who is at RA5, I can say that the game is not over.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The game will grow and the issues will be fixed. I don't think anyone, even the naysayers, doubt the potential of STO. It's just a matter of time -- when will it be harnessed? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have been wanting to do one of these posts myself for about a week or so (been playing since...April 4th or 6th I think).

    From reviews/word of mouth/ etc. I expected to waste my 60 bucks (Collectors edition). But, being a ST fan and having wanted another sci-fi MMO since SWG began to bore me years ago, I was willing to give it a shot.

    So far, I've had great fun!
    It's a nice looking game (love to play it on "the big computer" downstairs where it can played it maxed regardless of situation/players involved), with two fun systems (ground and space combat, a huge requirement for Sci-fi games for myself). Yeah, I like ground combat, blow it out your hair if you don't.

    Now, I'm not going to bow down to the almighty Cryptic/Atari. The game does have flaws.
    First, it WAS rushed, 6 more months of dev. time would have helped content wise, having season 1 one in the can and the basics of season 2 finished would have set up a Lord of the Rings Online situation, where they could put out a good amount of content to keep max level players interested, even this early in the games life.

    There is a LOT of repetition that isn't needed, ie some encounters/missions do tend to feel the same as others, although in mmo's this happens alot. How many Kill 10 of these guys, get 10 trophies from these guys, go talk to these guys type quests does WoW have? Pretty much every quest.....yet that is never mentioned. Almost every time you do something on the ground, you need to find 3 or 5 consoles/flora/whatever, and there isn't that many models of item X to interact with.

    One way to help with this is (for exploration missions), use some of the Fed. goals for Klingons and Visa-versa. If my Gorn is going for flora, he is going to destroy it, same with probes, while my 2 fed. guys always study it. Would be nice to have to destroy some flora as a fed., or find some useful probes as a Gorn, etc. Shouldn't be that hard I'd think.

    Now though, my complaints.....oh man, there are some bugs that drive me up the wall. Server disconnects, loading crashes (requiring all 109k files to be "verified" EVERY F'ing time!?....I mean this happens every 2 or 3 days at least once....argh). Been stuck on the "loading charactors" screen a handful of times. Some big ol' roaches in this game, though I played SWG, so I guess I'm a little more patient than many....hell every time WoW patches the servers are messed up for days it seems.
    I have only had it once, but the "ship just sits there" bug REALLY ****ed me off....couldn't move, the only weapon that worked was Torpedos....oh man, that was weak, just watching a Gorn cruiser that was no problem chip away at me....ugh.

    Having got that off my chest, if they fix these big roaches, I could easily see buying a lifetime sub. I have one for LotRO, and man, that was 200 bucks well spent. I'll probably wait for the one year ann. and hope they drop the price a bit. Until then, I'll pay my 15 bucks a month, probably 2 out of every 3 months, and play LotRO when I am burned out.

    I have played MANY mmo's, and this is the first where I actually created multiple charactors before reaching max level. I actually don't have a main...all 3 are played pretty equally.That right there says they did something right. I do agree with the Klingons needing more PvE content, just seems really idiotic to limit them to mainly PvP....how will Romulans and other factions added later function? If they are PvP based like Klingons...well just a waste.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sleeves wrote:
    Once you hit RA5 you will understand. The game is basically over once you get there.

    Because hitting max level of any MMO 2 months post release wasn't the end?

    Seriously.

    As for the OP: I agree!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have also been having a great time. I'm glad of the positive posts and finding others that enjoy sharing what it is about the game that they love.

    While I can't blame some people for wanting more content, since they seem to have the time to play more persistently, I don't appreciate the tenor and outright vitriol that SOME can sometimes bring to these forums.

    In any event, I personally welcome you and hope you continue to have fun playing STO. I know I do!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    the set up and art are good

    having a good time as well

    watched the shows and flicks and now can fly around in a ship

    i say delete stuff instead of worrying about content. delete the billboards and grids in space

    billboards and grids are kinda anti space
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    STO is a good game.

    What is excellent, is the effort that Cryptic is putting forth to expand and polish STO. They have been much more communicative than any other MMO developer I have seen, and have been going to great efforts to be responsive to the community, while trying to maintain their own creative direction for development.

    I think the future looks bright for STO.


    As for the game being over at RA5...what do you expect in the late game for an MMO? It is not possible to create an infinite amount of content...or even an amount of content that will not repeat for the rest of your life. Late game MMO play is typically team based grinds of higher than average difficulty encounters. Yeah, I would like STO to try to break that mold. However, I can see no reasonable way to do that from here. If you have a comprehensive way to do this, then please post it. I can say for certainty that Cryptic actually DOES read posts and take community advice. If it is both financially and developmentally feasible, I'm sure they would love to hear about it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    "However, I can see no reasonable way to do that from here. If you have a comprehensive way to do this, then please post it."

    Demotions

    Bridge Crew that Can Die


    specialization over "powering up"

    exploration over leveling or loot

    instead of a ribbon or a rank

    androids and robots and holograms and the transporter and medical bay

    crafting and fixing your face that got melted off in the last battle and transporter error that messes up your character, and making a android that looks like your dead female tactical officer that you liked

    immersion as content
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    i think they said that in pvp they might have fleets that take over star systems

    this is a great idea within the mechanics

    A fleet as a "faction" (marquis?) that can hold a planet? and if they have allies a system?

    this would work for ground and space- and again -the given mechanic
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Old player here an I just don't get the griping. I share the "Fun game that will get even better with time" philosophy. I'm glad that Cryptic is engaging the constructive feedback. I'm also excited about the new faction and diplomacy options that are in producation. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    mirek99 wrote:
    As someone who is at RA5, I can say that the game is not over.



    I agree. I seem to always find something to do, at RA5, I am used to making my own content after years of swg with almost no content..

    as long as I know the team is working and adding stuff to the game, I am patient person, I see them on tribble allot, things just take time.. every new mmo suffers from the same things at release, I have been in many new mmo's at release over the years..:)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    As for the game being over at RA5...what do you expect in the late game for an MMO? It is not possible to create an infinite amount of content...or even an amount of content that will not repeat for the rest of your life. Late game MMO play is typically team based grinds of higher than average difficulty encounters. Yeah, I would like STO to try to break that mold. However, I can see no reasonable way to do that from here.

    You can start by having your end game learn some "lessons" from your leveling game. Many people on these forums have 2 or 3 RA5's, which proves that they actually like the leveling game. A few positives from the leveling game:

    1.) Missions can be done any time and in short time blocks.

    2.) Missions are at an easy difficulty.

    3.) Between experience and new loot, rewards for doing missions are plentiful.

    In contrast, the end game features:

    1.) Forced grouping for longer content, which makes playing in short stints impossible.

    2.) Ramped up difficulty, which is exciting for some but frustrating for most.

    3.) Rewards that are few and far between, and are not spectacular upgrades.

    So to "fix" STO's end game, we can start by making those two lists look more alike.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    In LotRO I'm very well known, if indeed I may say so, for being able to level up a toon very quickly, and that ain't easy to do. In STO I have only managed to get to Lt Grade 7 with about 30 hours of game time. I therefore have to wonder to myself about just how much time these folks who say they hit level cap within 3 weeks actually have to play. The whole of every day?

    Who knows? It may just be the learning curve of a new MMO, but leveling here doesn't strike me as being too easy at all. I feel slightly compelled to say, also, that every single MMO out there has it's segment of players that burn through all possible content like things possessed and then complain that there isn't anything left to do. Perhaps it's pointless to attempt to point out to these individuals that there is no possible way to gratify them for long, as they are like gargantuan vaccuum cleaners sucking up everything in their general vicinity always. LOL Oh dear. Or like some kind of titanic and voracious carnivore/herbivore genetic experimant gone awry that devours all things devourable wherever they go. It isn't possible to keep them satiated for long.

    This is a very good game with huge potential still, and I'm with all of you who are patient and willing to stick it out to see where this goes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Some, apparently most, people seem to want to b_tch and moan about something all the time...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I am on my second RA atm (started during OB). I am still enjoying the game, but I do admit that there is a serious need for normal play content. I think having done all the available episodes multiple times and countless DSEs the repetitiveness will start to take its toll soon. Its hard to see this until you reach the cap.

    One thing that the other game I play (City of Heroes) has that has kept me there is that there are so many contacts to get that there are tons of different missions available. After 5 years I still havent done all the contacts there are. That is what STO needs to build towards. Not a handful of contacts with limited episodes to do.

    I cannot stand the STFs, so I am a bit biased when I say that I would like to see more episode content and less Task Force ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    In LotRO I'm very well known, if indeed I may say so, for being able to level up a toon very quickly, and that ain't easy to do. In STO I have only managed to get to Lt Grade 7 with about 30 hours of game time. I therefore have to wonder to myself about just how much time these folks who say they hit level cap within 3 weeks actually have to play. The whole of every day?

    Who knows? It may just be the learning curve of a new MMO, but leveling here doesn't strike me as being too easy at all. I feel slightly compelled to say, also, that every single MMO out there has it's segment of players that burn through all possible content like things possessed and then complain that there isn't anything left to do. Perhaps it's pointless to attempt to point out to these individuals that there is no possible way to gratify them for long, as they are like gargantuan vaccuum cleaners sucking up everything in their general vicinity always. LOL Oh dear. Or like some kind of titanic and voracious carnivore/herbivore genetic experimant gone awry that devours all things devourable wherever they go. It isn't possible to keep them satiated for long.

    This is a very good game with huge potential still, and I'm with all of you who are patient and willing to stick it out to see where this goes.

    To answer, leveling starts off slow, and I wondered the same thing. But once I got to commander level, leveling seemed to speed up a LOT, somewhere in the range of 4 or 5 times faster. At that point, I started to understand.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Negativity breeds negativity too. Often I have come here with no plans to gripe but page after after page of it, soon you just join in.

    I've played alot of MMOs and I gripe hard here about bugs here. Game wise I see nothing wrong with it. Its lacking but new. Bugs wise, I'm not as forgiving. I've played single player games that were buggy like this and worse but never an MMO. It becomes the thousand paper cuts. They get to you. You never know if you screwed up or a bug got you. Its hard to learn in a game when you are being bug slaughtered. They just annoy me :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    wfs5519 wrote: »
    To answer, leveling starts off slow, and I wondered the same thing. But once I got to commander level, leveling seemed to speed up a LOT, somewhere in the range of 4 or 5 times faster. At that point, I started to understand.

    Ahhh, okay. So it does speed up later on? It's the other way around in other MMO's I've played, where you'll move quickly through the first, say, 35 levels and then slow wayyyyyyyyyyyy down.

    I have also been having a great time. I'm glad of the positive posts and finding others that enjoy sharing what it is about the game that they love.

    While I can't blame some people for wanting more content, since they seem to have the time to play more persistently, I don't appreciate the tenor and outright vitriol that SOME can sometimes bring to these forums.

    In any event, I personally welcome you and hope you continue to have fun playing STO. I know I do!

    Thank you very much Terrilynn!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's a pretty good game, fun and playable, with a lot of promise and areas for growth.

    This community isn't any different from any other MMO community, or, frankly, any other Internet community. There is always going to be someone who complains. That's cool as long as the criticism is positive. But we all know there are people willing to whine about everything and anything under the sun.

    I hope Cryptic keeps releasing updates, fixes, content and the like. If they continue doing that then this game will get even better.

    Keep playing and have fun. Most of us are doing the exact same thing. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ahhh, okay. So it does speed up later on? It's the other way around in other MMO's I've played, where you'll move quickly through the first, say, 35 levels and then slow wayyyyyyyyyyyy down.
    !

    Getting close to a full load out of powers really helps get through missions faster, resulting in more skillpoints per hour. I actually found it to be a pretty smooth leveling experience aside from struggling with the first few levels of Lt Commander and Commander tiers due to a lack of decent gear for the tier and getting to grade 5 before having enough exploration badges to pay for it all. Now that I have and RA5 alt I can buy a new ship and mail all the white gear over. Makes things a whole lot easier
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Me I'm having a blast, bugs and all.



    I believe that griping soothes the bruised expectations of the more sensitive players, who knows? Some people just complain because they feel they have the right too. I just wish they would be more civilized about how they voice their displeasure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sleeves wrote:
    Once you hit RA5 you will understand. The game is basically over once you get there.

    This depends greatly on how you approach MMOs honestly.

    I have two RA5s and a bunch of alts (I've bought 4 additional character slots and am a lifer - 9 slots, I have 1 still open).

    Here's the thing: I don't make characters to get the best loot and be "zomg powerful'". I build each character around a theme; they have personality and I make choices based on that personality.

    For example: My RA5 Engineer who flies an Escort - she's a crew of one... or perhaps rather a person of 50. See, she's a hive-minded group of psychic clones all interlinked. My entire ground crew has identical powers, we all look alike, it's deliberately a bit creepy. That's why I play her - because of that theme. I'm not much worried about 'end game' and such; because I've found something I enjoy that doesn't require additional stuff.

    Not that I mind getting additional stuff...

    Among my alts, I have a holographic crew on an R&R vessel (think the USO for the Federation) - the ground crew is all Science officers, and all of their powers are as graphically 'shiny' as I could find. The whole thing is centered around putting out an absolutely insane light show.

    I also have an alt who's loosely based on a combination of WWI style trench warfare (entire ground crew is engies with turrets, shield generators (ie: 'the trench') med generators, mines and quantum mortars) - and the British Empire (in look - red Wrath of Khan jackets, white pants, black boots). I'm still working up the in-story reason for it; but it's fun to play regardless.

    Another crew is Section 31 operatives, with the captain being a hand-to-hand specialist, and everyone else taking on various spec-ops style roles. (Sniper, heavy weapons guy, demolitions, etc...)

    I could keep going...

    ---

    I'm not saying it works for everyone of course; but for me the whole point of a game with customizable NPCs is to find a theme and really work on it. I guess I focus heavily on the RPG part of MMORPG; and it helps me ignore things I don't like; or that maybe aren't in yet, and instead focus on what I do enjoy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ...If I recall correctly this game came out about five months ago and actually a little prematurely. ...

    STO came out on February 2nd 2010... 88 days.. Or less than 3 months ago. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's not a mmorg.

    Until they add open world (non instanced, non mission) content . . . explorable, persistent worlds and sectors of space . . . its not a mmorg.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    artic1337 wrote:
    It's not a mmorg.

    Until they add open world (non instanced, non mission) content . . . explorable, persistent worlds and sectors of space . . . its not a mmorg.

    Incorrect. This is the No True Scotsman fallacy writ large.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    All one requires to be an MMORPG is:

    A) Is it online?

    B) Are there a "massive' number of players playing, and can they if they so decide, play together?

    C) Are there RPG elements?

    That's it. Whether you like the game, like it's basic architecture, or anything else, is entirely irrelevant to whether it is or is not an MMORPG.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Forums for any game are drastically weighted towards people with problems.

    Eh, but STO forums are the worst for immaturity or needless, reasonless rage over petty things.

    It's just the big-trekkies if you ask me.

    I play on several MMO's, which forums get more posters than this here game. (Admittedly not WoW) And they are quite friendly and mature, hell even the rants are polite and mature (in the other MMO forums I'm on).

    The flames, pettiness, immaturity, displayed here, is new to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Sirius39 wrote:
    Eh, but STO forums are the worst for immaturity or needless, reasonless rage over petty things.

    It's just the big-trekkies if you ask me.

    I play on several MMO's, which forums get more posters than this here game. (Admittedly not WoW) And they are quite friendly and mature, hell even the rants are polite and mature (in the other MMO forums I'm on).

    The flames, pettiness, immaturity, displayed here, is new to me.

    In my experience with many, many games; it's actually just the 'new game crowd' that tends to be like this.

    If it's a license game, they freak out over the 'horrible damage to their beloved'. If it's a non-licensed game then they were 'sold a lie!' among other things...

    Then about 6-8mths after launch they're all gone and the 'real' community kicks in. CO is having that happen right now - it's gone from a frenzied storm of OMGHORRIBLE24/7 to... well generally speaking reasonable discussion and debate. I mean still a few morons; but by and large, reasonable.

    Maybe it's because some people fail to understand that unlike a single player game that has a beginning, middle and end, there will never, ever, ever be 'enough' content for an MMO when it goes live. Heck - ever.

    I mean; thinking logically, games like Dragon Age, which have 60-80 hours of gameplay and take just as long if not longer to develop... are lauded for being "expansive". An MMO with "only" 80 hours of gameplay is OMGHORRIBLENOTWORTHASUB.

    Maybe it's because some people have forgotten the old days at the dawn of the MMORPG era where "content" meant "more zones in which to mindlessly whack mobs with 5 of your best friends for hours on end with no quest or story at all"... so of course there was a ton of actual land; there just wasn't much *there* beyond random mobs. (And in those days, we liked it! *Get off mah lawn!)

    *edit*

    I should clarify that "real" community comment. It's not so much a question of who is or isn't a part of the community - it's rather the group that actually bothers to stick around. WoW for instance imo has a 'real' community... full of jerks; with exceptions of course. FFXI too for that matter.
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