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THe Biggest Obstacle for STO's Growth Will Be Us

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I kind of rambled on so if you read anything, skip to the last paragraph.

As it stands, most facets of the game need some degree of change; and in the next few months we can expect to see overhauls, widespread tweaks, fresh content and increased character diversity. But the quality of those changes is dependant on us as the STO community and we are currently setting the game up to fail. Don’t get me wrong, I think this is a phenemonal game with incredible potential but for STO succeed, people cannot be so shortsighted.

Star Trek is among the most popular franchises ever created, especially among the gaming community. Given the task of turning such an expansive storyline into a playable universe, Cryptic created a very cookie cutter MMO: a class system of damage, tank, heal, PvE for experience, group raids @ endgame, and 2 warring factions for exhibition PvP. A lot of people complain about a lack of content but I think Cryptic did this on purpose to let the players steer the development of gameplay and levels of complexity.

Too many players are failing miserably at seeing a big picture, and they’re being very vocal about it. As soon as something seems overpowered, there are dozens of posts complaining about it. Some of them are well thought out and rational, others simply read “WTF, this game sucks, nerf xxxxxx”. Balance is of course necessary but if skills and tactics continue to be weakend because they work TOO well, then there won’t be a need for creative out of the box thinking. Powerful tactics are what create the need for teamwork and relying on other people is the bread and butter of a good MMO. Too many people want a higher skillcap because their captain isn’t good in certain areas. This isn’t a console game, other players are meant to fill in the gaps in your expertise. Ofc I’d like to see either higher ranks, or more skillpoints, but only if they’re accompanied by even more specialized skills so captains start diversifiying more. (Examples would be like Torpedo Flight Speed, different resistance boosts, etc etc) That way the benefits of one area, come at the cost of another, and the values of each need to be weighed against eachother.

Simply put, as a community we need to buckle in for a long haul and stop wanting everything and wanting it now. Otherwise the changes in the next few months will reflect an impatient mentality. Best ways to ensure a quality devolpment is firstly, moderate the forums. 1 sentence whines, flame posts, and repeated posts should just be removed, not tolerated. After the senselessness gets filtered, everyone just needs to be patient and use the community to discuss solutions to a problem using the game as-is, not demanding a solution be created. Getting the community to cooperate and start maturing is gna be the key to creating more complex goals and an overall better game for hopefully a long long time.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Agreed and seconded in every single thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have found that most humans are impatient selfish shortsighted idiots, so I've grown to expect it.




    -np
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Revhain wrote:
    Agreed and seconded in every single thing.

    This ^^
    I have found that most humans are impatient selfish shortsighted idiots, so I've grown to expect it.
    -np

    Unfortunately, I agree. We need to be optimistic, which obviously goes against human nature.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Too many players are failing miserably at seeing a big picture, and they’re being very vocal about it.

    The problem for STO is that too many players ARE seeing the Big Picture.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The problem for STO is that too many players ARE seeing the Big Picture.
    :eek:
    You sir, are a artist.

    However, I have never seen that picture in my ready room, err my ship for that fact. Does STO have a underground of illegal art work you make/sell? hmmm......
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Or save themselves the grief of it all and released it when it was ready for launch...

    Just an idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    With respect, the forums are tightly controlled already.
    I have no intention of being a Mindless drone for Cryptic.
    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    With respect, the forums are tightly controlled already.
    I have no intention of being a Mindless drone for Cryptic.
    :)

    You will be assimilated.......and you'll like it! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sizman wrote:
    You will be assimilated.......and you'll like it! :D

    I'll like it more when they release Diplomacy/First Contact....
    Patience, patience..... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Revhain wrote:
    Agreed and seconded in every single thing.
    Me too.

    10 chars
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Or save themselves the grief of it all and released it when it was ready for launch...

    Just an idea.
    At some point people like yourself are going to need to come to the realization that what Cryptic should have done has no bearing on what Cryptic did. Attempting to place blame does not change the situation. This is the game we have and this is the game we have to help improve; and those improvements aren't going to happen over night. We can spend all our forum time pointing fingers or we can just put on our work-hats and get to making the game something we can be happy with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Very nicely worded Rael. I agree completely. STO is OUR game...and its a good game.....let's make it even better. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The problem for STO is that too many players ARE seeing the Big Picture.

    I second THAT!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ddgrfn11 wrote: »
    Very nicely worded Rael. I agree completely. STO is OUR game...and its a good game.....let's make it even better. :)
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The problem for STO is that too many players ARE seeing the Big Picture.



    I remain optimistic about what this game can become and I find it quite enjoyable...but things like the whole Memory Alpha "update" they're adding in proves how little they understand about what players want(ed) from crafting and lends credence to your statement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ddgrfn11 wrote: »
    Very nicely worded Rael. I agree completely. STO is OUR game...and its a good game.....let's make it even better. :)
    Bew_archer wrote: »

    I'm sorry...can you PLEASE tell me what you smoke before you start playing? PLEASE! I want to enjoy STO and i also want to feel it's great...:D

    I would like some of what you are smoking, since in your vision, "good" became "great"!

    I'd like some of that before I look at my pay checks or my tax returns.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Some people are hate-filled venom-spitting raving lunatics. I will give you that.

    But some people are merely aggressive with their word choice and do not write posts with regard for a companies feelings.

    Why should it be OK for Cryptic to release a product and charge us full price while simultaneously saying that they wanted to market the game in a new way where they release the core game play and then continue development in a live environment where the direction is dictated by the players?

    Why should players say "Ohh, that is OK, i don't mind giving you money for something I was lead to believe was bigger and more done than it really was" 2 Full factions means two factions with roughly the same content. It does not mean one faction that is relatively complete and a second one which can only do PvP.

    That is what most people are upset about. I think the biggest obstacle for STOs growth will be Cryptic's marketting department being honest with the customer base.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Laediin wrote: »
    Some people are hate-filled venom-spitting raving lunatics. I will give you that.

    But some people are merely aggressive with their word choice and do not write posts with regard for a companies feelings.

    Why should it be OK for Cryptic to release a product and charge us full price while simultaneously saying that they wanted to market the game in a new way where they release the core game play and then continue development in a live environment where the direction is dictated by the players?

    Why should players say "Ohh, that is OK, i don't mind giving you money for something I was lead to believe was bigger and more done than it really was" 2 Full factions means two factions with roughly the same content. It does not mean one faction that is relatively complete and a second one which can only do PvP.

    That is what most people are upset about. I think the biggest obstacle for STOs growth will be Cryptic's marketting department being honest with the customer base.
    I second THAT!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    There are some people out there that have nothing better to do than bash a good game. I'm not a fan of EVE but I can just imagine what it was like when it started. Now people swear by it. I'm sure in about two years this game will have a new wave of players. especially after the next Star Trek movie. Buy then there will be a lot more content with more complexity. At that point I will be glad to say I was here when...... A masterpiece takes time. The original series was not liked by all at the start.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Laediin wrote: »
    Some people are hate-filled venom-spitting raving lunatics. I will give you that.

    But some people are merely aggressive with their word choice and do not write posts with regard for a companies feelings.

    Why should it be OK for Cryptic to release a product and charge us full price while simultaneously saying that they wanted to market the game in a new way where they release the core game play and then continue development in a live environment where the direction is dictated by the players?

    Why should players say "Ohh, that is OK, i don't mind giving you money for something I was lead to believe was bigger and more done than it really was" 2 Full factions means two factions with roughly the same content. It does not mean one faction that is relatively complete and a second one which can only do PvP.

    That is what most people are upset about. I think the biggest obstacle for STOs growth will be Cryptic's marketting department being honest with the customer base.

    Ya, i can agree with that. I dont think people should censor what they say about cryptic, i just think posting out of anger will accomplish nothing, simply stating your ****ed won't undo the fact that the game cost xx$ and cost xx$ a month. SInce they did market the game as a much bigger universe with more content than the game has, the marketing department should find a way to reward people who have paid to play so early on.

    Maybe something like putting game time cards available to exchange for marks since getting those are mostly dependant on how long you've been subscribed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I kind of rambled on so if you read anything, skip to the last paragraph.

    As it stands, most facets of the game need some degree of change; and in the next few months we can expect to see overhauls, widespread tweaks, fresh content and increased character diversity. But the quality of those changes is dependant on us as the STO community and we are currently setting the game up to fail. Don’t get me wrong, I think this is a phenemonal game with incredible potential but for STO succeed, people cannot be so shortsighted.

    Without the people stating the problems, all you have are those that say, "This is great game!! Don't change it for nuthin'!!" And it won't change. So you can't get rid of the those that have negativity towards the game - it's necessary.
    Star Trek is among the most popular franchises ever created, especially among the gaming community. Given the task of turning such an expansive storyline into a playable universe, Cryptic created a very cookie cutter MMO: a class system of damage, tank, heal, PvE for experience, group raids @ endgame, and 2 warring factions for exhibition PvP. A lot of people complain about a lack of content but I think Cryptic did this on purpose to let the players steer the development of gameplay and levels of complexity.

    LOL, WUT?! I'm surprised no one else caught this. You can't be serious when you say that there is a "clear class system" in this game. There is none. There are no tanks, only 'deeps' and 'heals', and for the most part - they don't do those things very well. If the engineer class is supposed to be the tank, why is the cruiser so weak? Why is it more important for the engineer "humanoid" to deploy things, instead of being the meat shield its supposed to be? Because there is no class system, that's why. It's failed. This isn't cookie cutter in any sense of the idiom.

    So Cryptic purposefully released the game in the state it was/is to "let the players steer the development of gameplay and level of complexity." - again, LOL, WUT?!! Thats the same as saying that they released the game because they ran out of ideas and hoped the community could do their job for them ... it's ridiculous.
    Too many players are failing miserably at seeing a big picture, and they’re being very vocal about it. As soon as something seems overpowered, there are dozens of posts complaining about it. Some of them are well thought out and rational, others simply read “WTF, this game sucks, nerf xxxxxx”. Balance is of course necessary but if skills and tactics continue to be weakend because they work TOO well, then there won’t be a need for creative out of the box thinking. Powerful tactics are what create the need for teamwork and relying on other people is the bread and butter of a good MMO. Too many people want a higher skillcap because their captain isn’t good in certain areas. This isn’t a console game, other players are meant to fill in the gaps in your expertise. Ofc I’d like to see either higher ranks, or more skillpoints, but only if they’re accompanied by even more specialized skills so captains start diversifiying more. (Examples would be like Torpedo Flight Speed, different resistance boosts, etc etc) That way the benefits of one area, come at the cost of another, and the values of each need to be weighed against eachother.

    Of course we see the big picture - that's why we raise the hell we do. We see the big picture and we don't like it. Why? Because my 8-year old can draw a better "big picture" ... Again, issues are raised to counter all the "this game rox!!" posts; other wise ... nothing would happen. This game does not "rox".
    Simply put, as a community we need to buckle in for a long haul and stop wanting everything and wanting it now. Otherwise the changes in the next few months will reflect an impatient mentality. Best ways to ensure a quality devolpment is firstly, moderate the forums. 1 sentence whines, flame posts, and repeated posts should just be removed, not tolerated. After the senselessness gets filtered, everyone just needs to be patient and use the community to discuss solutions to a problem using the game as-is, not demanding a solution be created. Getting the community to cooperate and start maturing is gna be the key to creating more complex goals and an overall better game for hopefully a long long time.

    Simply put ... Albert Einstein said it best; "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I highly agree with your point. The game is a good solid foundation, and no, it's not finished yet. I for one hope it will never be "finished." There's a lot that still needs to happen for it to reach full potential, but it is an MMO and should therefore constantly evolve. Most of the complaints are overreactions of whiners and nay-sayers who don't understand why it isn't perfect.

    I just want to disagree with one thing you said: STO is NOT a cookie cutter MMO. The damage/tank/heal triad is not set in stone. Of course if you stay within the confines of expectation it can be (Engineer in a Cruiser, Science in a Science, Tactical in an Escort), but the mixing of BOff powers, shaking up your skill points etc can lead to a lot of variety. In the STFs, my Eng/Escort contributes a lot to healing. My Tac/Cruiser does significant damage, while sharing the agro.

    What I'm saying is that STO has made some significant progress toward NOT being a cookie cutter MMO, but that progress will be lost if the masses continue to expect and demand movement back toward the traditional. It's time to stop demanding that STO be "as good as" other MMOs. Personally, I'm happy with "different".
    I kind of rambled on so if you read anything, skip to the last paragraph.

    As it stands, most facets of the game need some degree of change; and in the next few months we can expect to see overhauls, widespread tweaks, fresh content and increased character diversity. But the quality of those changes is dependant on us as the STO community and we are currently setting the game up to fail. Don’t get me wrong, I think this is a phenemonal game with incredible potential but for STO succeed, people cannot be so shortsighted.

    Star Trek is among the most popular franchises ever created, especially among the gaming community. Given the task of turning such an expansive storyline into a playable universe, Cryptic created a very cookie cutter MMO: a class system of damage, tank, heal, PvE for experience, group raids @ endgame, and 2 warring factions for exhibition PvP. A lot of people complain about a lack of content but I think Cryptic did this on purpose to let the players steer the development of gameplay and levels of complexity.

    Too many players are failing miserably at seeing a big picture, and they’re being very vocal about it. As soon as something seems overpowered, there are dozens of posts complaining about it. Some of them are well thought out and rational, others simply read “WTF, this game sucks, nerf xxxxxx”. Balance is of course necessary but if skills and tactics continue to be weakend because they work TOO well, then there won’t be a need for creative out of the box thinking. Powerful tactics are what create the need for teamwork and relying on other people is the bread and butter of a good MMO. Too many people want a higher skillcap because their captain isn’t good in certain areas. This isn’t a console game, other players are meant to fill in the gaps in your expertise. Ofc I’d like to see either higher ranks, or more skillpoints, but only if they’re accompanied by even more specialized skills so captains start diversifiying more. (Examples would be like Torpedo Flight Speed, different resistance boosts, etc etc) That way the benefits of one area, come at the cost of another, and the values of each need to be weighed against eachother.

    Simply put, as a community we need to buckle in for a long haul and stop wanting everything and wanting it now. Otherwise the changes in the next few months will reflect an impatient mentality. Best ways to ensure a quality devolpment is firstly, moderate the forums. 1 sentence whines, flame posts, and repeated posts should just be removed, not tolerated. After the senselessness gets filtered, everyone just needs to be patient and use the community to discuss solutions to a problem using the game as-is, not demanding a solution be created. Getting the community to cooperate and start maturing is gna be the key to creating more complex goals and an overall better game for hopefully a long long time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I hate when people try to say this is a cookiecutter mmo that follows the trinity.

    Everyone has the ability to heal their own hull and shields in space combat. Everyone has the ability to jam enemy sensor and everyone has the ability to launch a torpedo spread or overload a beam weapon.

    I have been trying to get people to understand that they have more responsibility in this game than just what they think their traditional role is. People are very slow to adapt. This is made more difficult by the fact that most of the game is easy mode and never forces you to really sit down and learn what your character or ship can really do.

    I am looking forward to the difficulty slider, it might make it less boring for me to rank up my second character.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Like the OP, I too am taking the long view.

    I know that CBS and/or Atari forced Cryptic to release this game before it was ready. I know that all I had to do was wait awhile as bugs were fixed and more content was added. I knew all of this and that's why I chose to buy my lifetime subscription despite all of STO's many problems.

    The problem is the perception that STO is losing players. Now, none of us really know if or how many players STO is losing, and since Cryptic won't release the numbers we'll never know. But since they won't release the numbers they can't fight that perception. So people go on believing, rightly or wrongly, that STO is dying. Many people are leaving because of this. Many more are leaving because STO sucks right now, and they're too impatient to wait until it doesn't suck.

    It's because of this that I've recently become concerned that STO won't be around in a year. If STO dies, it'll be because of the perception that it's dying, and because the Cryptic marketing team is too incompetent to effectively fight that perception.

    That being the case, you'd think I'd spend as much time playing as I possibly could, just so I could get in as much time as I can before it folds. But the truth is that even though I went slowly, and didn't rush to the level cap, and I have a longer attention span that most of the ADD victims that currently inhabit the internet, even I'm becoming so bored that I just can't get myself to log in that much anymore.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    With respect, the forums are tightly controlled already.
    I have no intention of being a Mindless drone for Cryptic.
    :)

    So you will be droning mindlessly for yourself, then? :D


    As to the OPs post: I agree 110%, the "I want, I want, I want" crowd is getting extremely annoying.

    Yes the game needs work, allow the devs to do their job and get the game on track. Once we are on track, then scream all you want about every minuscule detail that you just have to have in the game.

    If they added what you ask for every time you ask for it, they would never have the time to create more missions, more endgame content or fix bugs. calling the devs names, and criticizing every little thing they do will not accomplish anything, except make them wonder why they even bother doing this for so many inconsiderate people...
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