a shame realy, u leave the playing field wide open for gamers trying to get noticed. hull healing to the max, but when shields are needed dont provide cause it wont show up in the meters. vice versa people actualy doing alot of shield healing could be considered nubs because 'they dont contribute to a game' at least thats what everyone thinks because they have low damage at the end and low (hull)healing. not true, these guys could have easily just won you the map. like i said, a shame
a shame realy, u leave the playing field wide open for gamers trying to get noticed. hull healing to the max, but when shields are needed dont provide cause it wont show up in the meters. vice versa people actualy doing alot of shield healing could be considered nubs because 'they dont contribute to a game' at least thats what everyone thinks because they have low damage at the end and low (hull)healing. not true, these guys could have easily just won you the map. like i said, a shame
Agreed.
I throw out SciTeam WAY more than I throw out EngTeam/Hazard Emitters.
In response to the original post, as others have said, 'Healing' statistics at the moment refer to hull repairs to self and/or others. Cryptic has stated that 'Healing' will be changed in the near future to include shield repairs as well.
I did however see an engi report saying that they are working on adding sheild healing to the "healing equation" so this should stop the unapreciated sheild healer, others that aslo count towards healing are:
Miracle Worker (engi only)
Emergency power to Auxillery - self heal but doesnt share a CD with Engi team or hazzard emiiters so a great 'oh ****' button as long as you pump your aux really high when using it.
What i think the new healing equation will mean:
Extend sheilds wil become the god of healing, its a 30 sec sheild heal, sci team still shares a CD with engi team, i use 2 engi teams to rotate hull heals, i cant see this changing to raise my healing score.
Sci healers using the weaker sci version of Extend sheilds (sorry can't remember the name off the top of my head)will get a little boost but still if i remember, dependant on aux power level.
For PVP i have found it best (both sides) to heal in is a cruiser, although cumbersome to turn and get within 5km some times the resillience of a cruiser beats on a sci ship or BoP. This generally means you have more Engi slots than Sci slots which suits well to my engi/cruiser play style (2 engi teams, 2 extend sheilds, 2 RSPs)
In response to the original post, as others have said, 'Healing' statistics at the moment refer to hull repairs to self and/or others. Cryptic has stated that 'Healing' will be changed in the near future to include shield repairs as well.
Yes, really. You can throw the one or two examples you have out there Matt and I can refer you to the dozens of PvP videos my fleet has on YouTube where healing is horribly neglected by Fed PvP'ers. If you happen to be in a room with more healing than not it is the exception...not the rule. Case in point...you have more healing by yourself then the entire team that faced you. Fed PvP is a joke when it comes to serious teamwork, sorry. Your second link shows more of the same. Cameron (aka Faithborn) has more healing than the 5 or 6 others playing with him combined! Your links strengthen my original point rather than diminish it.
a shame realy, u leave the playing field wide open for gamers trying to get noticed. hull healing to the max, but when shields are needed dont provide cause it wont show up in the meters. vice versa people actualy doing alot of shield healing could be considered nubs because 'they dont contribute to a game' at least thats what everyone thinks because they have low damage at the end and low (hull)healing. not true, these guys could have easily just won you the map. like i said, a shame
I don't think that the type of players who focus on the healing charts would omit a type of healing just because it doesn't show.
I don't use Science Team or Transfer Shield Strength nearly as much as my hull heals, but that's because my talent spec and consoles support Engineering abilities mostly. I use Extend Shields every time it cools down, and use RSP fairly often too, because those are Engineering abilities. My Science abilities are really just there to fill gaps while my Engineering heals are on cooldown.
I'd love to see a category for shield healing added, but it should probably be separate from hull healing, otherwise RSP would smoke any other healing ability.
Yes, really. You can throw the one or two examples you have out there Matt and I can refer you to the dozens of PvP videos my fleet has on YouTube where healing is horribly neglected by Fed PvP'ers. If you happen to be in a room with more healing than not it is the exception...not the rule.
I have at least a few dozen more score report screenshots showing similar output. I would say about 20% of the time (in Capture-and-Hold FvF), there are exceptionally low Healing stats (or several players with 0 Healing). If you wish, I can upload them all and link them, but it will take some time.
It should be noted that Healing stats really depend upon damage. If damage is being absorbed or resisted (i.e., high chance of survival by the target), then there is little need to waste hull repair cooldowns; shield resist/repair cooldowns are probably being used a lot more. And, as we have pointed out, Healing stats at present do not take into account shields.
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In other words, I disagree with blanket stereotypes that the average Federation player outputs poor 'healing'. I feel that the average Federation player outputs average or above 'healing' (as needed to survive), certainly enough to constitute at least a simple majority (51%) of enjoyable (FvF) PVP experiences. This is based on my own personal experiences in Capture-and-Hold FvF.
If you are comparing Federation to Klingon, that is another matter entirely. I do not have enough data (score report screenshots) to compare average 'Healing' stats between factions.
In other words, I disagree with blanket stereotypes that the average Federation player outputs poor 'healing'. I feel that the average Federation player outputs average or above 'healing' (as needed to survive), certainly enough to constitute at least a simple majority (51%) of enjoyable PVP experiences. This is based on my own personal experiences in Capture-and-Hold FvF.
If you are comparing Federation to Klingon, that is another matter entirely. I do not have enough data to compare average 'Healing' stats between factions.
You certainly can disagree but your links that you tout as evidence of "above average" healing really strengthen my point. Take Faithborn out of your opponent's team and the other six players combined don't add up to his healing total...not even close. Or was his team 6 Escorts and a Cruiser? Not to mention your sample of Capture and Holds only represents a portion of PvP. Those games are typically a lot longer than 5v5 arena games and much more damage is taken and heals given so the stats are skewed from that perspective. Typical 5v5 healing is so poorly executed and sparse that it is one of the major reasons we dominate so many opponents.
If you'd like to stand by your Fed healing opinion, I invite you to grab an Escort...join a PUG...and come face us (DOB). See how often and to what degree your teammates heal you when they're being attacked on all fronts by an effective team. They will wilt and look out for themselves...too busy RSP stacking to Extend Shields. Just my and my fleet's long and documented experience in FvF PvP.
I respect and understand your difference of opinion on the matter just don't agree with it...
You forgot to factor in How long people can last also and who to heal If i see someone getting owned and doing like no damage i will not heal them, why waste a heal on someone that clearly is not fited for pvp nd waste CD's when you could save those for people that need them. Allot of times thats what i see in FVF CTF full impulse into like 3 people and try to fight them yea I am not going to support that guy, I am going to support the guy that can actually do damage and cause concern for the enemy. At least thats what I factor into who to support and who not to support And usually when i find someone who knows what to do I will just follow them around. And since I dont have a fleet and pug mainly I am pretty sure its like that for allot of people.
You certainly can disagree but your links that you tout as evidence of "above average" healing really strengthen my point. Take Faithborn out of your opponent's team and the other six players combined don't add up to his healing total...not even close. Or was his team 6 Escorts and a Cruiser? Not to mention your sample of Capture and Holds only represents a portion of PvP. Those games are typically a lot longer than 5v5 arena games and much more damage is taken and heals given so the stats are skewed from that perspective. Typical 5v5 healing is so poorly executed and sparse that it is one of the major reasons we dominate so many opponents.
If you'd like to stand by your Fed healing opinion, I invite you to grab an Escort...join a PUG...and come face us (DOB). See how often and to what degree your teammates heal you when they're being attacked on all fronts by an effective team. They will wilt and look out for themselves...too busy RSP stacking to Extend Shields. Just my and my fleet's long and documented experience in FvF PvP.
I respect and understand your difference of opinion on the matter just don't agree with it...
Condescending taunts (or advertising 'touts') of premades vs. PUGs aside...
My point is three-fold:
1) 'Healing' stats, at present, fail to account for a variety of factors, including: resistances, shields, damage received, necessity for healing.
2) One person's anecdotal evidence can be refuted by another's. Merely looking at only Arena, or only Capture-and-Hold, invalidates any stereotype dealing with overall space PVP. (Regardless of premade vs. PUG.)
3) Based on the above, and evidence I have collected (which I can upload and link upon request), Capture-and-Hold (FvF) specifically shows average and above 'Healing' stats for the typical player over 51% of the time. Again, these screenshots are only in the Capture-and-Hold (FvF) matches (of varying sizes) I have played, mostly PUGs.
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We should have a clearer indication of 'healing' output once shields are accounted for, as Cryptic has indicated will happen in a future patch.
1) 'Healing' stats, at present, fail to account for a variety of factors, including: resistances, shields, damage received, necessity for healing.
Yes they do and as such no true estimation of healing at the moment is accurate statistically. So anecdotal evidence is all the evidence we have. And based on the documented performance of Fed Premades who consistently heal hull and shields versus those that do not speak for themselves in the absence of true statistical evidence.
2) One person's anecdotal evidence can be refuted by another's. Merely looking at only Arena, or only Capture-and-Hold, invalidates any stereotype dealing with overall space PVP. (Regardless of premade vs. PUG.)
Exactly...see quoted answer above.
3) Based on the above, and evidence I have collected (which I can upload and link upon request), Capture-and-Hold (FvF) specifically shows average and above 'Healing' stats for the typical player over 51% of the time. Again, these screenshots are only in the Capture-and-Hold (FvF) matches (of varying sizes) I have played, mostly PUGs.
In the two links you referenced as evidence, both times the heavy healing was done by one of the 6 to 7 players listed on the opposing team. How is that 51%? You were the only one really healing on your teams too. Far less than 51%...so your links actually contradict your stated "51% typical player" theory.
We should have a clearer indication of 'healing' output once shields are accounted for, as Cryptic has indicated will happen in a future patch.
I certainly hope so. A lot is expected of Cryptic in PvP but I fear the cries of "nerf this" or "nerf that" are drowning out the sensible calls for improvement (like your statistical thread on performance).
You forgot to factor in How long people can last also and who to heal If i see someone getting owned and doing like no damage i will not heal them, why waste a heal on someone that clearly is not fited for pvp nd waste CD's when you could save those for people that need them. Allot of times thats what i see in FVF CTF full impulse into like 3 people and try to fight them yea I am not going to support that guy, I am going to support the guy that can actually do damage and cause concern for the enemy. At least thats what I factor into who to support and who not to support And usually when i find someone who knows what to do I will just follow them around. And since I dont have a fleet and pug mainly I am pretty sure its like that for allot of people.
Have you though that if you did help heal the guy thats attacking 3 ships he might not die and might then actually add to your attempts to win.
I say this because too often in pug games I see players not supporting and attacking but rather just defending one flag trying to never die while the enemy just collects the other 4 flags and wins just by keeping the fed ball from moving away from that one flag.
At least the guy thats attacking those 3 ships is trying to bring the fight to the enemy rather then just circling one flag hoping the enemy comes to it.
In the two links you referenced as evidence, both times the heavy healing was done by one of the 6 to 7 players listed on the opposing team. How is that 51%? You were the only one really healing on your teams too. Far less than 51%...so your links actually contradict your stated "51% typical player" theory.
Apologies for confusion, but I never stated 51% of Federation players heal an average or above amount.
I did say the following:
I feel that the average Federation player outputs average or above 'healing' (as needed to survive), certainly enough to constitute at least a simple majority (51%) of enjoyable (FvF) PVP experiences. This is based on my own personal experiences in Capture-and-Hold FvF.
Based on the above, and evidence I have collected (which I can upload and link upon request), Capture-and-Hold (FvF) specifically shows average and above 'Healing' stats for the typical player over 51% of the time. Again, these screenshots are only in the Capture-and-Hold (FvF) matches (of varying sizes) I have played, mostly PUGs.
I say 'over 51%' (or a simple majority) with reference to the total quantity of matches I have played.
In other words, I say that, in my two dozen (or so) score report screenshots of Capture-and-Hold (FvF), the 'typical player' tends to 'heal' an 'average' (or above) amount in over half of those matches.
If you wish to discuss further semantics, I can break down my definitions for the above as well, just so we're all clear and there is no confusion.
just so we're all clear and there is no confusion.
Nope...no confusion. Your evidence is based on an extremely small sample size (your two dozen recorded PvP matches) and partial and overly focused game circumstance (only Fed capture and hold maps). Over the broader spectrum of literally hundreds of PvP matches my fleet and I have experienced...from 5v5 arena to Capture and Hold with both FvF and FvK variants...we have seen an inordinate amount of Fed players failing to heal, failing to properly utilize preemptive healing or hull resistance stacking, and generally beseeching the teamplay concept for individual survivability. Your links demonstrate evidence contrary to your stated theory (and that point has yet to be addressed) and yet you steadfastly cling to that hypothesis, as is your right.
Players like Faithborn are the exception and not the rule. I agree that due to lack of proper evidentiary compilation no stereotype...yours or mine...can be considered totally accurate. As such we're both simply speaking from personal experience. Your experience has shown you something and mine has demonstrated something else. As stated earlier, I agree to disagree on your theory that a majority of Fed players are good healers or team players.
As stated earlier, I agree to disagree on your theory that a majority of Fed players are good healers or team players.
Well now, I never said that either.
I said that the 'typical' or 'average' Federation player -- not the majority of Federation players -- outputs 'average' or above 'healing'.
That doesn't mean a majority of Federation players are 'good' healers, nor does it even mean that (what I consider) the 'typical' player is a 'good' healer.
... the 'typical player' tends to 'heal' an 'average' (or above) amount.
If that's not what you meant then fine. We're discussing the same thing...just from different perspectives. I am saying that the majority of Fed players are substandard healers and do not understand the general strategic concepts I layed out before...mainly appropriate healing build/loadout, preemptive healing, hull resistance stacking, and tactical healing of teammates versus self-preservation. If the majority perform below standard in this category than, by definition, the median or average player cannot excel there simultaneously.
The links you provide in support of your theory (general majority vs your experienced majority vs whatever) actually contradict any of those stereotypes indicating Fed players understand these conceptual strategies for healing and you've provided no analysis or interpretation to demonstrate otherwise. If by "average" healing amount you mean a low amount I'd agree. Anything else I cannot agree with. If you'd like to debate that topic we can start a thread and go through all the myriad healing builds, typical player performances, statistical evidence and so on but we've probably hijacked the OP's thread enough, wouldn't you say (sorry about that Kaku)?
If that's not what you meant then fine. We're discussing the same thing...just from different perspectives. I am saying that the majority of Fed players are substandard healers and do not understand the general strategic concepts I layed out before...mainly appropriate healing build/loadout, preemptive healing, hull resistance stacking, and tactical healing of teammates versus self-preservation. If the majority perform below standard in this category than, by definition, the median or average player cannot excel there simultaneously.
The links you provide in support of your theory (general majority vs your experienced majority vs whatever) actually contradict any of those stereotypes indicating Fed players understand these conceptual strategies for healing and you've provided no analysis or interpretation to demonstrate otherwise. If by "average" healing amount you mean a low amount I'd agree. Anything else I cannot agree with. If you'd like to debate that topic we can start a thread and go through all the myriad healing builds, typical player performances, statistical evidence and so on but we've probably hijacked the OP's thread enough, wouldn't you say (sorry about that Kaku)?
Indeed, what you thought I meant is -not- what I meant. Hence my attempts at clarification, which I must still continue since we are still confused on common terminology.
What I consider 'average Healing' (in terms of the current 'Healing' stat, which is only hull repair; this is not a statistical 'average' of everyone's Healing stats) is the amount of hull repair needed to keep a team alive, based upon the following very simplistic formulation:
The total damage dealt, divided by the the total number of allies (including yourself), represents the (statistically) average damage dealt by each enemy player. In order for this damage to be dealt, the target (ally) must still be alive; the damage numbers -- very simplistically -- represent the total hull health pool (less than or equal to the total amount needed).
Divide this average damage by 10 to represent what I consider the average hull needed to be 'healed' in order to survive. (If 10% hull seems too low for survival for whatever reason, then divide by a number between 10 and 5, where 5 represents 20% hull needed.)
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Using this (again, very simplistic) formulation, I have scanned through my Capture-and-Hold (FvF) score report screenshots from March through present. And it seems, to me, that the typical Federation player, in at least 51% of these matches, outputs enough 'Healing' to mitigate death.
By 'typical', I mean someone not new to space combat (of which I occasionally see a few). Again, this ignores shield 'heals'/resists, which can also account for at least some of the cases where I see less than HealingNeeded values.
In other words, my use of 'typical' or 'average' player does not represent a statistical average, and it does not necessarily have a bearing on the statistical majority of players; it is intended to reflect relative 'skill'.
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In other words, I disagree with any stereotype -- related to 'Healing' stats -- about a majority of Federation players, or about all space PvP. What you consider 'substandard', I consider adequate or 'average'. (I consider 'minimum' to require a formula divisor of at least 20.) Because neither of us can adequately sample a statistical majority, we cannot stereotype about them. But I can provide you statistical analysis of a majority of matches that I personally have played (above).
Lastly, this is not necessarily thread hijacking, because we have elaborated at great length on what 'Healing' means to the game, and what it means to us, and how it should be changed. Altogether a useful discussion, in my opinion, yet still relevant to the original post.
Have you though that if you did help heal the guy thats attacking 3 ships he might not die and might then actually add to your attempts to win.
I say this because too often in pug games I see players not supporting and attacking but rather just defending one flag trying to never die while the enemy just collects the other 4 flags and wins just by keeping the fed ball from moving away from that one flag.
At least the guy thats attacking those 3 ships is trying to bring the fight to the enemy rather then just circling one flag hoping the enemy comes to it.
many times i have helped only to see my cd's wasted cause the guy still get blown up in a few more seconds. but full impulse right into 3 people come on now if you are going to go after 3 people just fly to them w/o impulse then when you get close they will most likely chase you. then you can actually do something instead of having to wait a few seconds for weapons to charge while those 3 people are pounding you to TRIBBLE.
many times i have helped only to see my cd's wasted cause the guy still get blown up in a few more seconds. but full impulse right into 3 people come on now if you are going to go after 3 people just fly to them w/o impulse then when you get close they will most likely chase you. then you can actually do something instead of having to wait a few seconds for weapons to charge while those 3 people are pounding you to TRIBBLE.
Well if the guy full impulsed into 3 guys them yea he or she deserves to die.
I find the best way to do well as a escort is to Fly high then drop down on them hopefull from behind or the side so they dont see you right away. I get my speed from setting my engines to 50 and my shields to 25 plus with my engineering skills my shield power is actually 46 and my engine power is 67. I also use the hyper-inpulse engine so I rarely have problems running people down or getting away without ever using full impulse.
Basically What I was talking about are the players that seem to be intimidated by leaving the comfort of the fed ball to take down flags and pick off ships attacking the fed ball from behind or flanking. If a cruiser joins up with a good escort they can drop 3,4 ships in one run especially if the cruiser takes the time to help keep the escort alive.
Well if the guy full impulsed into 3 guys them yea he or she deserves to die.
I find the best way to do well as a escort is to Fly high then drop down on them hopefull from behind or the side so they dont see you right away. I get my speed from setting my engines to 50 and my shields to 25 plus with my engineering skills my shield power is actually 46 and my engine power is 67. I also use the hyper-inpulse engine so I rarely have problems running people down or getting away without ever using full impulse.
Basically What I was talking about are the players that seem to be intimidated by leaving the comfort of the fed ball to take down flags and pick off ships attacking the fed ball from behind or flanking. If a cruiser joins up with a good escort they can drop 3,4 ships in one run especially if the cruiser takes the time to help keep the escort alive.
Pretty much summed up what i do on my star cruiser except I am the guy following you around with extend shields and heals. I love to play a support class its just i see way to many morons doing stupid things like full impulse into 3 people lol.
Comments
Agreed.
I throw out SciTeam WAY more than I throw out EngTeam/Hazard Emitters.
That about sums up Fed PvP....
2-Fleet-member Space PvP: Capture-and-Hold (FvF) defeat results 16 April 2010
PUG Space PvP: Capture-and-Hold (FvF) defeat results 26 April 2010
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In response to the original post, as others have said, 'Healing' statistics at the moment refer to hull repairs to self and/or others. Cryptic has stated that 'Healing' will be changed in the near future to include shield repairs as well.
Miracle Worker (engi only)
Emergency power to Auxillery - self heal but doesnt share a CD with Engi team or hazzard emiiters so a great 'oh ****' button as long as you pump your aux really high when using it.
What i think the new healing equation will mean:
Extend sheilds wil become the god of healing, its a 30 sec sheild heal, sci team still shares a CD with engi team, i use 2 engi teams to rotate hull heals, i cant see this changing to raise my healing score.
Sci healers using the weaker sci version of Extend sheilds (sorry can't remember the name off the top of my head)will get a little boost but still if i remember, dependant on aux power level.
For PVP i have found it best (both sides) to heal in is a cruiser, although cumbersome to turn and get within 5km some times the resillience of a cruiser beats on a sci ship or BoP. This generally means you have more Engi slots than Sci slots which suits well to my engi/cruiser play style (2 engi teams, 2 extend sheilds, 2 RSPs)
Yes, really. You can throw the one or two examples you have out there Matt and I can refer you to the dozens of PvP videos my fleet has on YouTube where healing is horribly neglected by Fed PvP'ers. If you happen to be in a room with more healing than not it is the exception...not the rule. Case in point...you have more healing by yourself then the entire team that faced you. Fed PvP is a joke when it comes to serious teamwork, sorry. Your second link shows more of the same. Cameron (aka Faithborn) has more healing than the 5 or 6 others playing with him combined! Your links strengthen my original point rather than diminish it.
I don't use Science Team or Transfer Shield Strength nearly as much as my hull heals, but that's because my talent spec and consoles support Engineering abilities mostly. I use Extend Shields every time it cools down, and use RSP fairly often too, because those are Engineering abilities. My Science abilities are really just there to fill gaps while my Engineering heals are on cooldown.
I'd love to see a category for shield healing added, but it should probably be separate from hull healing, otherwise RSP would smoke any other healing ability.
It should be noted that Healing stats really depend upon damage. If damage is being absorbed or resisted (i.e., high chance of survival by the target), then there is little need to waste hull repair cooldowns; shield resist/repair cooldowns are probably being used a lot more. And, as we have pointed out, Healing stats at present do not take into account shields.
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In other words, I disagree with blanket stereotypes that the average Federation player outputs poor 'healing'. I feel that the average Federation player outputs average or above 'healing' (as needed to survive), certainly enough to constitute at least a simple majority (51%) of enjoyable (FvF) PVP experiences. This is based on my own personal experiences in Capture-and-Hold FvF.
If you are comparing Federation to Klingon, that is another matter entirely. I do not have enough data (score report screenshots) to compare average 'Healing' stats between factions.
You certainly can disagree but your links that you tout as evidence of "above average" healing really strengthen my point. Take Faithborn out of your opponent's team and the other six players combined don't add up to his healing total...not even close. Or was his team 6 Escorts and a Cruiser? Not to mention your sample of Capture and Holds only represents a portion of PvP. Those games are typically a lot longer than 5v5 arena games and much more damage is taken and heals given so the stats are skewed from that perspective. Typical 5v5 healing is so poorly executed and sparse that it is one of the major reasons we dominate so many opponents.
If you'd like to stand by your Fed healing opinion, I invite you to grab an Escort...join a PUG...and come face us (DOB). See how often and to what degree your teammates heal you when they're being attacked on all fronts by an effective team. They will wilt and look out for themselves...too busy RSP stacking to Extend Shields. Just my and my fleet's long and documented experience in FvF PvP.
I respect and understand your difference of opinion on the matter just don't agree with it...
My point is three-fold:
1) 'Healing' stats, at present, fail to account for a variety of factors, including: resistances, shields, damage received, necessity for healing.
2) One person's anecdotal evidence can be refuted by another's. Merely looking at only Arena, or only Capture-and-Hold, invalidates any stereotype dealing with overall space PVP. (Regardless of premade vs. PUG.)
3) Based on the above, and evidence I have collected (which I can upload and link upon request), Capture-and-Hold (FvF) specifically shows average and above 'Healing' stats for the typical player over 51% of the time. Again, these screenshots are only in the Capture-and-Hold (FvF) matches (of varying sizes) I have played, mostly PUGs.
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We should have a clearer indication of 'healing' output once shields are accounted for, as Cryptic has indicated will happen in a future patch.
Yes they do and as such no true estimation of healing at the moment is accurate statistically. So anecdotal evidence is all the evidence we have. And based on the documented performance of Fed Premades who consistently heal hull and shields versus those that do not speak for themselves in the absence of true statistical evidence.
Exactly...see quoted answer above.
In the two links you referenced as evidence, both times the heavy healing was done by one of the 6 to 7 players listed on the opposing team. How is that 51%? You were the only one really healing on your teams too. Far less than 51%...so your links actually contradict your stated "51% typical player" theory.
I certainly hope so. A lot is expected of Cryptic in PvP but I fear the cries of "nerf this" or "nerf that" are drowning out the sensible calls for improvement (like your statistical thread on performance).
Have you though that if you did help heal the guy thats attacking 3 ships he might not die and might then actually add to your attempts to win.
I say this because too often in pug games I see players not supporting and attacking but rather just defending one flag trying to never die while the enemy just collects the other 4 flags and wins just by keeping the fed ball from moving away from that one flag.
At least the guy thats attacking those 3 ships is trying to bring the fight to the enemy rather then just circling one flag hoping the enemy comes to it.
I did say the following:
I say 'over 51%' (or a simple majority) with reference to the total quantity of matches I have played.
In other words, I say that, in my two dozen (or so) score report screenshots of Capture-and-Hold (FvF), the 'typical player' tends to 'heal' an 'average' (or above) amount in over half of those matches.
If you wish to discuss further semantics, I can break down my definitions for the above as well, just so we're all clear and there is no confusion.
Nope...no confusion. Your evidence is based on an extremely small sample size (your two dozen recorded PvP matches) and partial and overly focused game circumstance (only Fed capture and hold maps). Over the broader spectrum of literally hundreds of PvP matches my fleet and I have experienced...from 5v5 arena to Capture and Hold with both FvF and FvK variants...we have seen an inordinate amount of Fed players failing to heal, failing to properly utilize preemptive healing or hull resistance stacking, and generally beseeching the teamplay concept for individual survivability. Your links demonstrate evidence contrary to your stated theory (and that point has yet to be addressed) and yet you steadfastly cling to that hypothesis, as is your right.
Players like Faithborn are the exception and not the rule. I agree that due to lack of proper evidentiary compilation no stereotype...yours or mine...can be considered totally accurate. As such we're both simply speaking from personal experience. Your experience has shown you something and mine has demonstrated something else. As stated earlier, I agree to disagree on your theory that a majority of Fed players are good healers or team players.
I said that the 'typical' or 'average' Federation player -- not the majority of Federation players -- outputs 'average' or above 'healing'.
That doesn't mean a majority of Federation players are 'good' healers, nor does it even mean that (what I consider) the 'typical' player is a 'good' healer.
and
If that's not what you meant then fine. We're discussing the same thing...just from different perspectives. I am saying that the majority of Fed players are substandard healers and do not understand the general strategic concepts I layed out before...mainly appropriate healing build/loadout, preemptive healing, hull resistance stacking, and tactical healing of teammates versus self-preservation. If the majority perform below standard in this category than, by definition, the median or average player cannot excel there simultaneously.
The links you provide in support of your theory (general majority vs your experienced majority vs whatever) actually contradict any of those stereotypes indicating Fed players understand these conceptual strategies for healing and you've provided no analysis or interpretation to demonstrate otherwise. If by "average" healing amount you mean a low amount I'd agree. Anything else I cannot agree with. If you'd like to debate that topic we can start a thread and go through all the myriad healing builds, typical player performances, statistical evidence and so on but we've probably hijacked the OP's thread enough, wouldn't you say (sorry about that Kaku)?
What I consider 'average Healing' (in terms of the current 'Healing' stat, which is only hull repair; this is not a statistical 'average' of everyone's Healing stats) is the amount of hull repair needed to keep a team alive, based upon the following very simplistic formulation:
(TotalEnemyDamageDealt / NumberOfAllies) / 10 = HealingNeeded
The total damage dealt, divided by the the total number of allies (including yourself), represents the (statistically) average damage dealt by each enemy player. In order for this damage to be dealt, the target (ally) must still be alive; the damage numbers -- very simplistically -- represent the total hull health pool (less than or equal to the total amount needed).
Divide this average damage by 10 to represent what I consider the average hull needed to be 'healed' in order to survive. (If 10% hull seems too low for survival for whatever reason, then divide by a number between 10 and 5, where 5 represents 20% hull needed.)
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Using this (again, very simplistic) formulation, I have scanned through my Capture-and-Hold (FvF) score report screenshots from March through present. And it seems, to me, that the typical Federation player, in at least 51% of these matches, outputs enough 'Healing' to mitigate death.
By 'typical', I mean someone not new to space combat (of which I occasionally see a few). Again, this ignores shield 'heals'/resists, which can also account for at least some of the cases where I see less than HealingNeeded values.
In other words, my use of 'typical' or 'average' player does not represent a statistical average, and it does not necessarily have a bearing on the statistical majority of players; it is intended to reflect relative 'skill'.
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In other words, I disagree with any stereotype -- related to 'Healing' stats -- about a majority of Federation players, or about all space PvP. What you consider 'substandard', I consider adequate or 'average'. (I consider 'minimum' to require a formula divisor of at least 20.) Because neither of us can adequately sample a statistical majority, we cannot stereotype about them. But I can provide you statistical analysis of a majority of matches that I personally have played (above).
Lastly, this is not necessarily thread hijacking, because we have elaborated at great length on what 'Healing' means to the game, and what it means to us, and how it should be changed. Altogether a useful discussion, in my opinion, yet still relevant to the original post.
many times i have helped only to see my cd's wasted cause the guy still get blown up in a few more seconds. but full impulse right into 3 people come on now if you are going to go after 3 people just fly to them w/o impulse then when you get close they will most likely chase you. then you can actually do something instead of having to wait a few seconds for weapons to charge while those 3 people are pounding you to TRIBBLE.
Well if the guy full impulsed into 3 guys them yea he or she deserves to die.
I find the best way to do well as a escort is to Fly high then drop down on them hopefull from behind or the side so they dont see you right away. I get my speed from setting my engines to 50 and my shields to 25 plus with my engineering skills my shield power is actually 46 and my engine power is 67. I also use the hyper-inpulse engine so I rarely have problems running people down or getting away without ever using full impulse.
Basically What I was talking about are the players that seem to be intimidated by leaving the comfort of the fed ball to take down flags and pick off ships attacking the fed ball from behind or flanking. If a cruiser joins up with a good escort they can drop 3,4 ships in one run especially if the cruiser takes the time to help keep the escort alive.
Pretty much summed up what i do on my star cruiser except I am the guy following you around with extend shields and heals. I love to play a support class its just i see way to many morons doing stupid things like full impulse into 3 people lol.