test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Skillcap - whose idea was it?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I'd like to know who is responsible so I can mentally direct my continued frustration with a nonsensical skill system to that person in the form of ill-prayers.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    plexaura wrote:
    I'd like to know who is responsible so I can mentally direct my continued frustration with a nonsensical skill system to that person in the form of ill-prayers.

    My voodoo doll and I would like to know too.

    Seriously, though, who thought it was a good idea to place a budget on a skill system painfully obviously not designed and balanced for it? And why hasn't the skill system gotten a redesign so that costs actually reflect usefulness and the silly near-inaccessibility of Admiral skills is addressed?

    Yes, this remains a sore point for me, every time I look at the skill window.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It was me. I never thought they'd take it seriously though. You'd think they'd be used to sarcasm by now, but obviously they missed mine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Yah, the skill system needs a serious rebalancing; even taking into account the future raising of the level cap. That being said; I'm not for removing the skill cap itself (which is a stupid idea), just some well-needed tweaking.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    and the silly near-inaccessibility of Admiral skills is addressed?

    Their plan to address that is to add the other 5 grades of Rear Admiral rank. That pretty much addresses the issue there. But it will be awhile before that is implemented. That doesn't address the balance questions people have. But that does address the accessibility of the skills at that tier. It's half done. They know that. They will complete it. Eventually.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Their plan to address that is to add the other 5 grades of Rear Admiral rank. That pretty much addresses the issue there. But it will be awhile before that is implemented. That doesn't address the balance questions people have. But that does address the accessibility of the skills at that tier. It's half done. They know that. They will complete it. Eventually.

    Even once they do that, there's still a pretty absurd squeeze on the availability of the Admiral skills relative to Commander and Captain, including ones that affect ensign BO skills, Lieutenant kit and captain skills, every Engineering-based hull heal (without even the courtesy of putting them in the same skill) and on and on. It's made even worse by the SP/rank curve being so shallow that it doesn't even keep pace with the increasing cost of skills.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I am almost RA5 again with my third character and my skills are still improving and there is still room for improvement of my skills.

    I.o.w. trying to run trough a wall hurts, I found a door.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Even once they do that, there's still a pretty absurd squeeze on the availability of the Admiral skills relative to Commander and Captain, including ones that affect ensign BO skills, Lieutenant kit and captain skills, every Engineering-based hull heal (without even the courtesy of putting them in the same skill) and on and on. It's made even worse by the SP/rank curve being so shallow that it doesn't even keep pace with the increasing cost of skills.

    Thing is, Admiral tier is more focused than the previous tiers. So in that respect it works out. Admiral skills aren't really ones you're trying to spread out into a lot of areas in. They're ones you focus on just a couple of areas.

    While I think there's some decent points to be made about the weight of balance due to how energy weapon choices were spread out ... I don't think what you're talking about here really needs fixing. The point of Admiral skills costing so much more is that you have to choose between Starship Hull Repair OR something else. Unlike T1 where you end up taking most of the tree.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Thing is, Admiral tier is more focused than the previous tiers. So in that respect it works out. Admiral skills aren't really ones you're trying to spread out into a lot of areas in. They're ones you focus on just a couple of areas.

    While I think there's some decent points to be made about the weight of balance due to how energy weapon choices were spread out ... I don't think what you're talking about here really needs fixing. The point of Admiral skills costing so much more is that you have to choose between Starship Hull Repair OR something else. Unlike T1 where you end up taking most of the tree.

    It's no more focused than Commander and Captain, and includes a few skills of sweepingly general benefit (hull repair, weapon performance) alongside some of almost no use at all outside specialized builds (all the space Science admiral skills). As well as, of course, very oddly isolating weapon skills that don't give any more or less overall benefit than the prior ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    plexaura wrote:
    I'd like to know who is responsible so I can mentally direct my continued frustration with a nonsensical skill system to that person in the form of ill-prayers.

    The cap isn't the issue (that's game balance).

    The tooltips, on the other hand, require a manual to understand.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    thank god for a skillcap, otherwise you can just get everything. focus on one thing and be happy about it for christ sake. some1 report the OP for trolling cuz this discussion has been done to death. skillcap stays, and be happy about it. one week after it would be gone you would totaly leave cuz STO would be even more boring
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    CedricO wrote:
    thank god for a skillcap, otherwise you can just get everything. focus on one thing and be happy about it for christ sake. some1 report the OP for trolling cuz this discussion has been done to death. skillcap stays, and be happy about it. one week after it would be gone you would totaly leave cuz STO would be even more boring


    i think it would take a very long time to get "everything" and i also believe without a skill cap this game would be soo much better

    dont u think it would be even more fun endgame if not only did u have to collect your gear but also gain more points to further expand your captain.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    There HAS to be a skill cap. Who invented it? Who created the first MMO?

    Don't you realise that if there wasn't a skillcap, everyone would be able to do everything.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    plexaura wrote:
    I'd like to know who is responsible so I can mentally direct my continued frustration with a nonsensical skill system to that person in the form of ill-prayers.

    The skill cap itself is fine, and it was based on a logical belief that without one, players would surpass in stored skill ponts the future content of the game (ie. new ranks and skills). This agrument has been made over and over, and it is not settled.

    However, fixes within the skill system are needed.

    1. We need more than a few exapmles of what kills are impacted by our captain's skills. We need a
    complete list of all affected skills.

    2. We need an in-game skill calculator that shows how skills affect our space / ground abilities. Example: Exactly how do I get from Rifles 30 to Rifles 52?

    3. We need to have the ship weapons types (Phaser, Disruptors, Tetryon, Plasma, Polaron and Anti-Proton) either cost the same in skill points, or the more expensive skills have to produce more base dps than the less expensive ones. The 2.5 % potential for procs are not worth the higher cost of the skills.

    4. When new skills are added, points must be added within the cap to allow for training them. We just hasd three skills added for Starship functions (all lower level), we should have received enough points (75%) of what it would have cost to bring them to level 9. This would have allowed two to be raised to 9 and the last to 4 or 5.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Zutty wrote: »
    There HAS to be a skill cap. Who invented it? Who created the first MMO?

    Don't you realise that if there wasn't a skillcap, everyone would be able to do everything.


    we allready can

    i can have the same spec regardless of my captains class. not like our skilltrees have skills in them or anything. this game is designed to be played by classes on a skillcap-less system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'm a PC. And The Skill Cap was my idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Koffeeuk wrote:
    This game is designed to be played by classes on a skillcap-less system.

    The capless system never saw post launch, it was changed in beta. beta testing is meant to discover what works and what does not. During beta it was discoverd that the capless system would not work. The Develpoeras felt that they would not be able to keep up with player skill point growth, and stay ahead of tha wave with new skills, levels (content).

    So in essence this game being designed for one thing in its early stages, but being launched with something else is the result of good development strategies.

    All of this will be moot once they add RA 6 - 10, which is scheduled for Season Two (July).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    And why hasn't the skill system gotten a redesign so that costs actually reflect usefulness and the silly near-inaccessibility of Admiral skills is addressed?.

    You realize that the level cap will be raised, right? You'll have plenty of points to spread around on those Admiral level skills then.

    There are certain parts of the skill tree that could do with being eliminated (ie. the points for each class of ship) and the descriptions need a lot more work, but it isn't the bane of MMOs that it's made out to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Koffeeuk wrote:
    dont u think it would be even more fun endgame if not only did u have to collect your gear but also gain more points to further expand your captain.

    I don't think it would be fun at all. It would be boring. Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer were not masters of everything. Neither should we be. You need to make choices and live with your decision.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I don't think it would be fun at all. It would be boring. Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer were not masters of everything. Neither should we be. You need to make choices and live with your decision.

    Well said and great point, i agree. One thing though Picard WAS a master of everything! He was basically a god. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    plexaura wrote:
    I'd like to know who is responsible so I can mentally direct my continued frustration with a nonsensical skill system to that person in the form of ill-prayers.

    you mean the skill cap that all MMO's have apart from one and the one that does not used to have one too.

    I understand your new to the whole MMO thing but surly you can understand why there is one.
    I will give the answer in large text so you can comprehend the concept.

    THERE IS A SKILL CAP SO THAT EVERYONE CANT MAX OUT THERE SKILL POINTS ON THE WAY TO ADMIRAL.

    I'm glad I know who made this thread so I can direct my frustration at him for not using his melon ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Koffeeuk wrote:
    i think it would take a very long time to get "everything" and i also believe without a skill cap this game would be soo much better

    dont u think it would be even more fun endgame if not only did u have to collect your gear but also gain more points to further expand your captain.

    I have to disagree with all your idea's as they just would not work and really have not been thought out..

    RA 10 is out later on this year and will give people the chance to level up when they hit the currant end game mission, STF's etc..

    No skill cap in a MMO like this is a daft Idea and would not work.

    I suggest playing a few more MMO's to see why a cap is needed, STO needs is skill tree balancing but that's a totally different concept.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Blodveard wrote: »
    The capless system never saw post launch, it was changed in beta. beta testing is meant to discover what works and what does not. During beta it was discoverd that the capless system would not work. The Develpoeras felt that they would not be able to keep up with player skill point growth, and stay ahead of tha wave with new skills, levels (content).

    So in essence this game being designed for one thing in its early stages, but being launched with something else is the result of good development strategies.

    All of this will be moot once they add RA 6 - 10, which is scheduled for Season Two (July).

    Actually, the cap was added because they want leveling past RA 10 to be tied to skill points and you would auto-level up under the current system if they raised the cap.

    I can live without a few talents but I wish they'd just adjusted the amount of points you get up but then required more points per level. I can understand having to choose a single ship type to specialize in. But as it stands, there are too many places where skills build on eachother and are designed to work together but you can't select both skills.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Koffeeuk wrote:
    i think it would take a very long time to get "everything" and i also believe without a skill cap this game would be soo much better

    dont u think it would be even more fun endgame if not only did u have to collect your gear but also gain more points to further expand your captain.

    ide rather expand my captain in a different way, asin having him do some diplomacy, or having something, ANYTHING else to do except kill endless amounts of enemies. thats would be better.

    Tbh anybody who wants a skillcap prob cant play with the points he/she has. atm i got one read admiral and one lvl 10 klingon captain and i NEVER EVER feel like the skills r a boundry, more like a focus on what i wanna do. if i wanna tank ill go for all the repair n shield things, if i wanna do crazy dps ill go for everything in weapons etc etc ... i dont wanna be good in EVERYTHING, that would defeat the point of choosing a class ...

    for that matter, people who wanna see the skillcap go ... why dont we just forget classes like etc .... or wait a minute, why dont we delete EVERYTHING, make one giant faction, and only have alien customization and none of that pesky canon stuff ... sounds like a plan eh?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    CedricO wrote:
    ide rather expand my captain in a different way, asin having him do some diplomacy, or having something, ANYTHING else to do except kill endless amounts of enemies. thats would be better.

    Tbh anybody who wants a skillcap prob cant play with the points he/she has. atm i got one read admiral and one lvl 10 klingon captain and i NEVER EVER feel like the skills r a boundry, more like a focus on what i wanna do. if i wanna tank ill go for all the repair n shield things, if i wanna do crazy dps ill go for everything in weapons etc etc ... i dont wanna be good in EVERYTHING, that would defeat the point of choosing a class ...

    for that matter, people who wanna see the skillcap go ... why dont we just forget classes like etc .... or wait a minute, why dont we delete EVERYTHING, make one giant faction, and only have alien customization and none of that pesky canon stuff ... sounds like a plan eh?

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Terramak

    diplomacy = click the right phase and complate mission.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Koffeeuk wrote:
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Terramak

    diplomacy = click the right phase and complate mission.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Terramak
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The cap isn't the issue (that's game balance).

    The tooltips, on the other hand, require a manual to understand.

    and a Ouija board...........
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Skill system needs a redesign badly, because like it or not its specificly designed for a capless system as people have said, no matter if it worked or not.
    In addition, Runesacape which is a great free/cheap MMO lets you be master of everything. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    plexaura wrote:
    I'd like to know who is responsible so I can mentally direct my continued frustration with a nonsensical skill system to that person in the form of ill-prayers.

    I like it, reminds me of the original star wars galaxies. You make the build that best fits you, lots of options but limitations to what you can get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Actually, the cap was added because they want leveling past RA 10 to be tied to skill points and you would auto-level up under the current system if they raised the cap.

    I can live without a few talents but I wish they'd just adjusted the amount of points you get up but then required more points per level. I can understand having to choose a single ship type to specialize in. But as it stands, there are too many places where skills build on eachother and are designed to work together but you can't select both skills.

    I think what they should do is remove the limitations as to where we can spend the 60700 skill points. In the current system Cryptic has a double unlock system:

    I need a certain number of xp to move up in tiers, unlock new rank.

    Then I have to spend a certain number of skills points to unlock that new rank's skills.

    I would rather just have a system based on skill points earned, unlocking both rank and new rank skills. Then we could spend the points (within the cap) on whatever skills we want.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Terramak
Sign In or Register to comment.