Since this game came out there have been mostly negative comments on this forum. People complaining about what this game should and shouldn't have, bugs, glitches and other technical problems.
If one were to read most of the posts here it would seem that the game isn't very good and the developers just slapped it together at their homes one weekend. Most of the posts complain about crappy exploration; a shallow unfinished shell of a game, that is too short, is too easy, has very little content, no endgame content; no options other than combat and the ground combat apparently is the worst piece of gamming in history; the game causes video cards to over heat which causes computers to explode, burning down houses and killing families, the executive producers are Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein and if people play Star Trek Online it will bring the Anti-Christ and the end of the world, and so on, and so on ect...
Some of those complaints might have a point to them, but others are probably, just the paranoid conspiracy theories of ultra conservative Star Wars fans.
So I just want to express my thanks for every one who worked and continues to work on this game making it better. I don't pretend to know how Cryptic works or how the development of this game went down, but it seems that they did a great job with limited time and recourses. And if this game had been released when it was ready and not rushed out the door with the promise that stuff would be "installed on Tuesday" then maybe this game could have been great.
Well, maybe not "great", because there are many problems with the basic fundamentals of the game that in my opinion, prevent it from being "great" like a Game of the Year Award contender or something. But at least "good" or maybe "less bad".
So once again, good job to every one who worked and works on this game.
And Thank you.
And better luck next time? I guess?
How do the rest of you feel?
And I don't want any negative comments this is a Developer appreciation thread, if you want to ***** and moan about this wonderful TRIBBLE of a game then go into one of the million compliant threads. I am sick and tired hearing about how Gene Roddenberry is spinning in his grave, apparently he has been since Wrath of Khan came out almost 10 years before he died.
Since this game came out there have been mostly negative comments on this forum. People complaining about what this game should and shouldn't have, bugs, glitches and other technical problems.
If one were to read most of the posts here it would seem that the game isn't very good and the developers just slapped it together at their homes one weekend. Most of the posts complain about crappy exploration; a shallow unfinished shell of a game, that is too short, is too easy, has very little content, no endgame content; no options other than combat and the ground combat apparently is the worst piece of gamming in history; the game causes video cards to over heat which causes computers to explode, burning down houses and killing families, the executive producers are Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein and if people play Star Trek Online it will bring the Anti-Christ and the end of the world, and so on, and so on ect...
Some of those complaints might have a point to them, but others are probably, just the paranoid conspiracy theories of ultra conservative Star Wars fans.
So I just want to express my thanks for every one who worked and continues to work on this game making it better. I don't pretend to know how Cryptic works or how the development of this game went down, but it seems that they did a great job with limited time and recourses. And if this game had been released when it was ready and not rushed out the door with the promise that stuff would be "installed on Tuesday" then maybe this game could have been great.
Well, maybe not "great", because there are many problems with the basic fundamentals of the game that in my opinion, prevent it from being "great" like a Game of the Year Award contender or something. But at least "good" or maybe "less bad".
So once again, good job to every one who worked and works on this game.
And Thank you.
And better luck next time? I guess?
How do the rest of you feel?
And I don't want any negative comments this is a Cryptic appreciation thread, if you want to ***** and moan about this wonderful TRIBBLE of a game then go into one of the million compliant threads. I am sick and tired hearing about how Gene Roddenberry is spinning in his grave, apparently he has been since Wrath of Khan came out almost 10 years before he died.
I think the overal feeling you are describing is what is felt by the community as a rushed title...which Cryptic acknowledges as an aggressive dev schedule they HAD to meet. 18 month dev time isn't much in comparison to other mmo's. Thats not to say what the devs have done isnt impressive...considering the time spent the opposite is true...but in many ways it will still take another 6 months of content development for this game to be felt as on-par with other mmo's out there.
Here is my metaphor for STO...
Un-cooked cookie dough.
Fun to eat in small doses but you can't stomach a lot in one sitting. But given time to bake you find the product much more enjoyable.
Un-cooked cookie dough.
Fun to eat in small doses but you can't stomach a lot in one sitting. But given time to bake you find the product much more enjoyable.
I am sick and tired hearing about how Gene Roddenberry is spinning in his grave, apparently he has been since Wrath of Khan came out almost 10 years before he died.
If Roddenberry did not recognize that The Wrath of Khan saved his franchise, then he was a fool, and it was best that Star Trek moved away from whatever "vision" he had. In fact it was probably best that Star Trek ran like Hell away from his vision.
I'm kind of tired about the whole, Star Trek is a state of being or a "trek" within the human condition or struggle to create a utopian ideal where all calamities such as war, disease, poverty, etc are erradicated from the member systems of the United Federation of Planets.
Utter nonsense.....and it goes to show why the TV series' never went too far down that road, without throwing in numerous conflicts.
Star Trek is a setting, nothing more. It is not a state of being or a way of life.
Since this game came out there have been mostly negative comments on this forum. People complaining about what this game should and shouldn't have, bugs, glitches and other technical problems.
I see quite a bit of positivity on the forums as well. It helps that there is a lot of interaction with the developers.
And I don't really view discussions about bugs, glitches and technical problems as negative. The devs and GMs and support people need that info to get things fixed. They ask us to let them know about bugs and the like.
So even if it's couched in frustration or even ranting, it's still feedback that is needed and an integral part of what the forums are for.
I think the devs have done a fantastic job in the given time and resources. I also think that if given a choice of
a. having the game as it was and launched as it did
or
b. making us wait another year to have a better game
I think I would still go with (a) because having cookie dough is still better then having nothing at all. Overall, I understand most of the decisions that the devs make and I think if I was in their shoes, I would have made the same decisions too. I also agree that they are a lot less appreciated then what they deserve.
I think the devs have done a fantastic job in the given time and resources. I also think that if given a choice of
a. having the game as it was and launched as it did
or
b. making us wait another year to have a better game
I think I would still go with (a) because having cookie dough is still better then having nothing at all. Overall, I understand most of the decisions that the devs make and I think if I was in their shoes, I would have made the same decisions too. I also agree that they are a lot less appreciated then what they deserve.
Biggest thing to remember was Cryptic didn't have a choice...they had a schedule for release and had to hit that schedule...If anyone should be blamed it would be CBS or Atari for forcing the premature development of this title... but in many ways they created it with one foot out of the door already. It seems like they expected it to be lackluster from the start so only put in a lackluster effort....they set their own bar quite low so I guess that is where the disparity lie...fans expected more than what the producer intended to deliver.
If you set you sights on mediocrity you will never be disappointed, but in settling for mediocrity you will never achieve greatness.
I to love the game it does have problems. It was rushed but I still think the game is fun. I see the potential of this game. The developers are working hard to give us more. They do listen as well.
I have to agree Wrath of Khan was the best Star Trek movie. I was never a TOS fan. I was a big TNG fan. I still liked it better than on the TNG films.
If you deliver close to what you promised then, guess what, most of the people I know would have given them the benefit of the doubt. But they didn't. If that is because Atari gave them an unrealistic timeline that they couldn't push back on then so be it. Bottom line is what they hyped for over a year wasn't even close to what we got and all of the QQ I hear about how everyone expects WOW in 2 years is exactly that .. QQ. A large portion of us didn't expect the hundreds of hours of content WOW has but we sure expected more than the usual amount found in a standard playstation single player game.
They set their bar extremely low and produced to meet that standard and it shows. Now we all get to wait and see if they can save themselves like EVE did.
I agree that there are probably too many negative posts about this game.
Just because many people seem not to have any patience or simply can't express their ideas without sounding *****y it doesn't mean their complaints arent valid.
Now is the time to address our issues with the game while its still young and the devs are listening.
If this game ever becomes hugely successful nothing we say will matter and we'll be stuck with all the faults.
I see it as letting the devs know what should be changed so we get a better game thats more what we want to play and it also will make it so the game will attract a bigger community.
To be fair its not just the players going after the game in the forums its been all the professional gaming review sites as well. STO was not ready for release when it went out the door and its extremely obvious to everyone playing it and just about every review site that reviewed it.
STO's saving grace is its in a genre with very little competition at the moment and its based off a rock solid IP. If the sci-fi MMO segment was well populated I don't think STO would survive, its just too incomplete. I am one of those people who appreciates polish and good story telling when it comes to gaming and STO currently has neither.
In another year or so theres going to be more 'AAA' sci-fi MMO's out there and more selection for consumers. Hopefully STO will have its act together by then.
This is my point of view based on what information I could research.
Cryptic was under pressure to release Star Trek Online in two years. Atari, in its typically marketing habits over sold what Cryptic could do. I don't blame Cryptic for that, I blame Atari. If you look at the financial and the history of Atari SA you find that they bit off more than they could chew in pursuit of the dollar. So Cryptic was forced to come up with the means to produce a game under the constraint and resources they were given. They knew that two years was not enough to make a Star Trek game that would survive in the current market without creating or using a new way of doing things. They decided to release a framework of a game and then work with the community to make the game into more of what the community wanted. Has the road been perfect? By no means.
Cryptic is the developer of the game. They have tried to work with the community and they have worked with the community. They are trying to be transparent and communicate. Actually they do accomplish this for the most part. No it isn't perfect but honestly they are attempting to do something that no other MMO developer really does. They are fleshing out a game on the fly with input from the community. Will it ultimately succeed? Only time will tell. I certainly hope they do, not only because of a love for Star Trek but something that other game companies could use to make games that really appeal to their respective communities.
Personally, I want to thank Cryptic for working hard on STO. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. As long as they learn from their mistakes and continue to communicate with the community then they will have my support.
Now for what I have seen in this game I do like it. The ship physics still **** me off, but the game runs exceptionally smooth and that is what the developers have been focused on the most which is great!!! Now the reason these guys weren't given a whole lot of time was because they projected a very small demographic and the result on opening day blew that number past the Gamma Quadrant, but instead of pleasing everyone with buzzes and whistles, the men and women at Cryptic worked tirelessly to make sure the game ran smooth and very well. They focused on what was important and for that I'm extending my subscription through September. Now that the servers are fully operational, they can start developing new content and begin to shape this game to be more Star Trek like, however what they have now is a pretty solid foundation to build on and I can't wait for what's next.
A couple things that I would like to point out:
I visited Wolf 359 in the game and quite honestly I was impressed how emotional it felt. Yeah that battle hasn't happened yet, but flying through that debris and past that memorial felt like I was visiting a war memorial here in the real world. It seems that the Wolf 359 Memorial in the game is a tribute to all our fallen heroes and for that Cryptic, I think I'll stay on through December.
The customization is incredible. I liked how I was able to customize just about every part on all my characters including the "fun areas." The ship customization was also well done, however I wouldn't mind seeing a little more freedom with it. Like in the advanced options in the character builder, I felt that there was some needed fine tuning on areas of my ship that I couldn't change. Either way though, it's still nice to be able to put a little personalization into my ship instead of everyone flying the same exact class model. Cryptic, if more class designs are released and/or more customization options made available, you may have me hooked through 2011.
I also appreciated Cryptic's insertion of other famous Trek landmarks, namely DS9. I haven't been able to do missions from there yet, but I'm hoping that one of the upcoming missions will feature the return of Sisko. If you get Avry Brooks to provide the voice talent, Cryptic, I'll be locked in through the end of the world if such event happens.
This game has so much potential and the fact that the design team is focused on what's important rather than what a bunch of buzzes and whistles unlike some companies *Cough* Bungie *Cough* means that this game will be pretty killer It'll just take a little time:)
I love the warm and fuzzy sentiment behind this but it's a flamebait topic and I think the devs would get better use out of specific feedback ("I'd like this...", "This isn't working for me because...", "I love this aspect of the game because...") than from meta commentary on the game's health, the developer's limitations, etc. Especially since commentary on the game rather than discussion of the game will invariably turn into an angry complaints department thread or a shouting match between players.
I'm as guilty of that as anyone and it's partly because this isn't my job and I tend to post off the cuff.
But if I were a mod, I'd probably say, "Thank you! It means a lot!" and then close this thread in a hurry.
Biggest thing to remember was Cryptic didn't have a choice...they had a schedule for release and had to hit that schedule...If anyone should be blamed it would be CBS or Atari for forcing the premature development of this title... but in many ways they created it with one foot out of the door already. It seems like they expected it to be lackluster from the start so only put in a lackluster effort....they set their own bar quite low so I guess that is where the disparity lie...fans expected more than what the producer intended to deliver.
If you set you sights on mediocrity you will never be disappointed, but in settling for mediocrity you will never achieve greatness.
I keep seeing this one and it irks me. CBS don't set schedules for other companies to produce games that they ( CBS ) have no commissioned. They sell the right to use their property and negotiate a royalties deal for future sales. That's it.
Atari came along after Cryptic had transferred that rights license from Perpetual due to Jack Emmert being friends with the Perpetual team and knowing that it could save his own company ( which it has been admitted was about two weeks away from folding itself before the Star Trek deal was done ) and it was the Star Trek license which made them attractive to Atari who initially had just wanted a company to produce a D&D mmo for them but bought them out instead.
The schedule for STO was already in place and remained the same.
The schedule for both CO and STO was set by Jack Emmert because of his statement that they will produce MMOs from the same engine on a strict, low-cost, two year schedule. Cryptic are very much responsible for their own development targets and sure, the Dev team have to release when the deadline arrives but too many people have confused a dev statement saying the game HAD to be released as though poor little Cryptic were hard done to by the 'big boys'* at Atari
( * and the idea that Atari are somehow a 'big boy' is also amusing. Infogrames a re a small debt-ridden software house, riding on the coat-tails of the Atari name, who have yet to make a profit in their history. They have made some spectacular losses of over $750M in the last decade though and their financials show no sign of that changing )
I love the warm and fuzzy sentiment behind this but it's a flamebait topic and I think the devs would get better use out of specific feedback ("I'd like this...", "This isn't working for me because...", "I love this aspect of the game because...") than from meta commentary on the game's health, the developer's limitations, etc. Especially since commentary on the game rather than discussion of the game will invariably turn into an angry complaints department thread or a shouting match between players.
I'm as guilty of that as anyone and it's partly because this isn't my job and I tend to post off the cuff.
But if I were a mod, I'd probably say, "Thank you! It means a lot!" and then close this thread in a hurry.
In my personal experiences in life, there is only so much criticism I can take in at one time and it's nice to hear some positive feedback every once in a while. It helps to get through the long days of sorting through hate mail. If you look at my post, I made some suggestions in a calm collective manner that if the developers see it, they may take my suggestions into a level on consideration unlike a suggestion like this:
This game is so f***ing messed up and it f***ing sucks!!! I'm going to quit my f***ing subscription if you don't fix this this and f***ing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chances are they get garbage like this all the time and quite frankly those of us who like the game don't care and don't want to hear it and would prefer that more important things get fixed rather than the satisfaction of pathetic nitpicking.
Also for the record, Star Trek II is the best Trek movie EVER!!! The reason it's still better than the TNG movies is because all of those suck;)
Since this game came out there have been mostly negative comments on this forum.
Its not just on this forum. The majority of professional reviews for this game have been mostly negative as well. Its unfortunate, but it is what it is.
This is my point of view based on what information I could research.
Cryptic was under pressure to release Star Trek Online in two years. Atari, in its typically marketing habits over sold what Cryptic could do. I don't blame Cryptic for that, I blame Atari. If you look at the financial and the history of Atari SA you find that they bit off more than they could chew in pursuit of the dollar. So Cryptic was forced to come up with the means to produce a game under the constraint and resources they were given. They knew that two years was not enough to make a Star Trek game that would survive in the current market without creating or using a new way of doing things. They decided to release a framework of a game and then work with the community to make the game into more of what the community wanted. Has the road been perfect? By no means.
Cryptic is the developer of the game. They have tried to work with the community and they have worked with the community. They are trying to be transparent and communicate. Actually they do accomplish this for the most part. No it isn't perfect but honestly they are attempting to do something that no other MMO developer really does. They are fleshing out a game on the fly with input from the community. Will it ultimately succeed? Only time will tell. I certainly hope they do, not only because of a love for Star Trek but something that other game companies could use to make games that really appeal to their respective communities.
Personally, I want to thank Cryptic for working hard on STO. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. As long as they learn from their mistakes and continue to communicate with the community then they will have my support.
Just did not happen that way. The "2 year cheap mmo" machine was already in motion before Atari even noticed Cryptic.
I don't blame the developers as much as whomever made them release this game in it's current state. I canceled my account today, hopefully the game will get better, but I don't have the time to pay for a game that isn't finished, or even remotely close to being finished. This game feels more like a beta release, and even then, it would have been a poor beta release!
I'll check back after the summer and see how things are, I'm half expecting to only find lifers to still be playing.
Sounds more like a damning with faint praise thread.
Speaking of which, I am fairly certain playing STO is a LOT more fun than beting bitten by a snapping turtle. Then again, I've never been bitten by a snapping turtle, so I don't really know for certain if that's true. It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility, I suppose, that being bitten by a snapping turtle might actually be more fun than playing STO (especially when trying to PVP on that stupid map in which respawning in the wall is such a frequent occurrence). I suppose I should go find a snapping turtle and get it to bite me, so I will be able to offer meaningful feedback...
Just did not happen that way. The "2 year cheap mmo" machine was already in motion before Atari even noticed Cryptic.
I suppose thats the case... I have no fact just opinion and what "feels" true.
Is Cryptic responsible for their own time frame and schedule? Probably.
Does it reinforce the design goal of MMediOcrity? Absolutely.
But in their defense it is more the INDUSTRY that forced that then anything else. With the ultra success of the 800lbs gorilla and the subsequent flop of AoC and WAR most developers that aren't tied to endless bags of cash (Bioware) are going to trend to a low cost, low development MMO and buy time while WoW burns itself out like a neutron star.
It makes sense from a business prospective considering their cost/profit ratio sits green much easier if they didn't spend a billion dollars and 5 years in development it just sucks from a player perspective because it has forces game companies to play safe and take no risk meaning the next 5 years will be as bland as the last 5 years.
A tleast we have Civilization 5 in the fall...god bless sid.
Just did not happen that way. The "2 year cheap mmo" machine was already in motion before Atari even noticed Cryptic.
Exactly. Cryptic made the deals with Atari and CBS, and obviously part of making those deals was saying they could do what they clearly couldn't do.
Do I feel sorry for the developers in the trenches? Not a bit. They're doing a job , and if Cryptic tanks they can move on to another company easily enough. We don't owe them any job security. Most of us have had to do the same thing a few times in our lives I imagine.
There's no feeling sorry for the higher ups at Cryptic either, no excuse good enough for how they've messed up the development and release of STO, and no excuse good enough for how they have carried on with using lies and dishonest business practices.
I suppose thats the case... I have no fact just opinion and what "feels" true.
Is Cryptic responsible for their own time frame and schedule? Probably.
Does it reinforce the design goal of MMediOcrity? Absolutely.
But in their defense it is more the INDUSTRY that forced that then anything else. With the ultra success of the 800lbs gorilla and the subsequent flop of AoC and WAR most developers that aren't tied to endless bags of cash (Bioware) are going to trend to a low cost, low development MMO and buy time while WoW burns itself out like a neutron star.
It makes sense from a business prospective considering their cost/profit ratio sits green much easier if they didn't spend a billion dollars and 5 years in development it just sucks from a player perspective because it has forces game companies to play safe and take no risk meaning the next 5 years will be as bland as the last 5 years.
A tleast we have Civilization 5 in the fall...god bless sid.
I offer you this as an interesting read. No agenda, it's just an article on the future of MMOs which I enjoyed. It mentions STO briefly.
Also I may not be around much longer. Due to infraction points never expiring I now have 18. As soon as the team come into work tomorrow, if the past week is anything to go by, I'll pick up more just for 'posting with one leg off the floor', and being 2 points away from a permaban means I'll not see any of you again.
I suppose thats the case... I have no fact just opinion and what "feels" true.
Is Cryptic responsible for their own time frame and schedule? Probably.
Does it reinforce the design goal of MMediOcrity? Absolutely.
But in their defense it is more the INDUSTRY that forced that then anything else. With the ultra success of the 800lbs gorilla and the subsequent flop of AoC and WAR most developers that aren't tied to endless bags of cash (Bioware) are going to trend to a low cost, low development MMO and buy time while WoW burns itself out like a neutron star.
It makes sense from a business prospective considering their cost/profit ratio sits green much easier if they didn't spend a billion dollars and 5 years in development it just sucks from a player perspective because it has forces game companies to play safe and take no risk meaning the next 5 years will be as bland as the last 5 years.
A tleast we have Civilization 5 in the fall...god bless sid.
See I don't blame the industry. The industry has lots of room and lots of money for good developers, Blizzard, Bungie, id, Bioware, Infitity Ward (up until recently) and many others have built a rock solid reputation on making 'AAA' titles with alot of polish and care put into them. You know when you buy a game thats been made by one of those companies it won't be a half finished buggy mess or it wouldn't be released.
The companies that don't put out the the high quality products tend to follow the Cryptic buisness model. Build a cheap half finished product, market the TRIBBLE out of it and take what you can get before your venture fails. Those companies usually don't last long. Cryptic got lucky with the Star Trek license but I don't know if even that will be enough to save them in the long run when the more professional devs start releasing their products next year. The Bioware product with a rather popular sci-fi license coming out next year pops to the top of my mind.
I really hope Cryptic does get its act together because there are so few decent sci-fi MMO's out there. For now I've cancelled my subscription but I'll check back in a year and see if things are a little more ironed out by then.
Just did not happen that way. The "2 year cheap mmo" machine was already in motion before Atari even noticed Cryptic.
Then please PM the links to this information. As the information that I have found is contrary to this. You did post the financials a while back and I was thank full as it was good information. However, if you have further information I would like to see it. CBS did have a time limit placed on STO. This has been confirmed before. It was even mentioned in the October 2009 Issue of Game informer.
Also I may not be around much longer. Due to infraction points never expiring I now have 18. As soon as the team come into work tomorrow, if the past week is anything to go by, I'll pick up more just for 'posting with one leg off the floor', and being 2 points away from a permaban means I'll not see any of you again.
but it's been fun
Well I might not be far off...but for reasons that involve hypothetical scenarios, cake, and breaks.
Then please PM the links to this information. As the information that I have found is contrary to this. You did post the financials a while back and I was thank full as it was good information. However, if you have further information I would like to see it. CBS did have a time limit placed on STO. This has been confirmed before. It was even mentioned in the October 2009 Issue of Game informer.
I have to drive to the airport soon and I've covered all this in detail in the past. I'll take a look at some stuff for you later but to be honest it's all from jack's mouth so it's pretty much set in stone.
I fail to see where in any situation CBS are in a position to sell a rights package, negotiate royalties and then have the temerity to tell someone how to make their own product. I think you are misunderstanding that relationship and just how such things work.
Sure, if CBS had commissioned a Star Trek game to be made ( and if they had they would have funded and published it ) then they have a say on development but they did not. CBS did not have a care if the game was made or not. A small California company said "hey, can we pay you royalties to make this game?" And CBS agreed.
All they have to do then is ensure the protection of their brand ( with oversight on the content ) and sit back waiting for the cheques.
A 'time limit' that you may be referring to is the duration of the rights license. As with anything these things are finite and always up for review and renewal. There will have been a specific period in which the license is active but that in no way gives CBS control over development.
It would make no sense for CBS to have Cryptic take over Perpetual's license and then allow Cryptic to be taken over by Atari. If the project belonged to CBS then they would have just brushed Atari aside, funded the project and published the product themselves.
Comments
I think the overal feeling you are describing is what is felt by the community as a rushed title...which Cryptic acknowledges as an aggressive dev schedule they HAD to meet. 18 month dev time isn't much in comparison to other mmo's. Thats not to say what the devs have done isnt impressive...considering the time spent the opposite is true...but in many ways it will still take another 6 months of content development for this game to be felt as on-par with other mmo's out there.
Here is my metaphor for STO...
Un-cooked cookie dough.
Fun to eat in small doses but you can't stomach a lot in one sitting. But given time to bake you find the product much more enjoyable.
Sounds more like a damning with faint praise thread.
very good metaphor, I like.:)
If Roddenberry did not recognize that The Wrath of Khan saved his franchise, then he was a fool, and it was best that Star Trek moved away from whatever "vision" he had. In fact it was probably best that Star Trek ran like Hell away from his vision.
I'm kind of tired about the whole, Star Trek is a state of being or a "trek" within the human condition or struggle to create a utopian ideal where all calamities such as war, disease, poverty, etc are erradicated from the member systems of the United Federation of Planets.
Utter nonsense.....and it goes to show why the TV series' never went too far down that road, without throwing in numerous conflicts.
Star Trek is a setting, nothing more. It is not a state of being or a way of life.
You're right I misspoke, meant to say Developers, not Cryptic
I see quite a bit of positivity on the forums as well. It helps that there is a lot of interaction with the developers.
And I don't really view discussions about bugs, glitches and technical problems as negative. The devs and GMs and support people need that info to get things fixed. They ask us to let them know about bugs and the like.
So even if it's couched in frustration or even ranting, it's still feedback that is needed and an integral part of what the forums are for.
I think the devs have done a fantastic job in the given time and resources. I also think that if given a choice of
a. having the game as it was and launched as it did
or
b. making us wait another year to have a better game
I think I would still go with (a) because having cookie dough is still better then having nothing at all. Overall, I understand most of the decisions that the devs make and I think if I was in their shoes, I would have made the same decisions too. I also agree that they are a lot less appreciated then what they deserve.
Biggest thing to remember was Cryptic didn't have a choice...they had a schedule for release and had to hit that schedule...If anyone should be blamed it would be CBS or Atari for forcing the premature development of this title... but in many ways they created it with one foot out of the door already. It seems like they expected it to be lackluster from the start so only put in a lackluster effort....they set their own bar quite low so I guess that is where the disparity lie...fans expected more than what the producer intended to deliver.
If you set you sights on mediocrity you will never be disappointed, but in settling for mediocrity you will never achieve greatness.
I have to agree Wrath of Khan was the best Star Trek movie. I was never a TOS fan. I was a big TNG fan. I still liked it better than on the TNG films.
They set their bar extremely low and produced to meet that standard and it shows. Now we all get to wait and see if they can save themselves like EVE did.
Just because many people seem not to have any patience or simply can't express their ideas without sounding *****y it doesn't mean their complaints arent valid.
Now is the time to address our issues with the game while its still young and the devs are listening.
If this game ever becomes hugely successful nothing we say will matter and we'll be stuck with all the faults.
I see it as letting the devs know what should be changed so we get a better game thats more what we want to play and it also will make it so the game will attract a bigger community.
STO's saving grace is its in a genre with very little competition at the moment and its based off a rock solid IP. If the sci-fi MMO segment was well populated I don't think STO would survive, its just too incomplete. I am one of those people who appreciates polish and good story telling when it comes to gaming and STO currently has neither.
In another year or so theres going to be more 'AAA' sci-fi MMO's out there and more selection for consumers. Hopefully STO will have its act together by then.
Cryptic was under pressure to release Star Trek Online in two years. Atari, in its typically marketing habits over sold what Cryptic could do. I don't blame Cryptic for that, I blame Atari. If you look at the financial and the history of Atari SA you find that they bit off more than they could chew in pursuit of the dollar. So Cryptic was forced to come up with the means to produce a game under the constraint and resources they were given. They knew that two years was not enough to make a Star Trek game that would survive in the current market without creating or using a new way of doing things. They decided to release a framework of a game and then work with the community to make the game into more of what the community wanted. Has the road been perfect? By no means.
Cryptic is the developer of the game. They have tried to work with the community and they have worked with the community. They are trying to be transparent and communicate. Actually they do accomplish this for the most part. No it isn't perfect but honestly they are attempting to do something that no other MMO developer really does. They are fleshing out a game on the fly with input from the community. Will it ultimately succeed? Only time will tell. I certainly hope they do, not only because of a love for Star Trek but something that other game companies could use to make games that really appeal to their respective communities.
Personally, I want to thank Cryptic for working hard on STO. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. As long as they learn from their mistakes and continue to communicate with the community then they will have my support.
Now for what I have seen in this game I do like it. The ship physics still **** me off, but the game runs exceptionally smooth and that is what the developers have been focused on the most which is great!!! Now the reason these guys weren't given a whole lot of time was because they projected a very small demographic and the result on opening day blew that number past the Gamma Quadrant, but instead of pleasing everyone with buzzes and whistles, the men and women at Cryptic worked tirelessly to make sure the game ran smooth and very well. They focused on what was important and for that I'm extending my subscription through September. Now that the servers are fully operational, they can start developing new content and begin to shape this game to be more Star Trek like, however what they have now is a pretty solid foundation to build on and I can't wait for what's next.
A couple things that I would like to point out:
I visited Wolf 359 in the game and quite honestly I was impressed how emotional it felt. Yeah that battle hasn't happened yet, but flying through that debris and past that memorial felt like I was visiting a war memorial here in the real world. It seems that the Wolf 359 Memorial in the game is a tribute to all our fallen heroes and for that Cryptic, I think I'll stay on through December.
The customization is incredible. I liked how I was able to customize just about every part on all my characters including the "fun areas." The ship customization was also well done, however I wouldn't mind seeing a little more freedom with it. Like in the advanced options in the character builder, I felt that there was some needed fine tuning on areas of my ship that I couldn't change. Either way though, it's still nice to be able to put a little personalization into my ship instead of everyone flying the same exact class model. Cryptic, if more class designs are released and/or more customization options made available, you may have me hooked through 2011.
I also appreciated Cryptic's insertion of other famous Trek landmarks, namely DS9. I haven't been able to do missions from there yet, but I'm hoping that one of the upcoming missions will feature the return of Sisko. If you get Avry Brooks to provide the voice talent, Cryptic, I'll be locked in through the end of the world if such event happens.
This game has so much potential and the fact that the design team is focused on what's important rather than what a bunch of buzzes and whistles unlike some companies *Cough* Bungie *Cough* means that this game will be pretty killer It'll just take a little time:)
I'm as guilty of that as anyone and it's partly because this isn't my job and I tend to post off the cuff.
But if I were a mod, I'd probably say, "Thank you! It means a lot!" and then close this thread in a hurry.
I keep seeing this one and it irks me. CBS don't set schedules for other companies to produce games that they ( CBS ) have no commissioned. They sell the right to use their property and negotiate a royalties deal for future sales. That's it.
Atari came along after Cryptic had transferred that rights license from Perpetual due to Jack Emmert being friends with the Perpetual team and knowing that it could save his own company ( which it has been admitted was about two weeks away from folding itself before the Star Trek deal was done ) and it was the Star Trek license which made them attractive to Atari who initially had just wanted a company to produce a D&D mmo for them but bought them out instead.
The schedule for STO was already in place and remained the same.
The schedule for both CO and STO was set by Jack Emmert because of his statement that they will produce MMOs from the same engine on a strict, low-cost, two year schedule. Cryptic are very much responsible for their own development targets and sure, the Dev team have to release when the deadline arrives but too many people have confused a dev statement saying the game HAD to be released as though poor little Cryptic were hard done to by the 'big boys'* at Atari
( * and the idea that Atari are somehow a 'big boy' is also amusing. Infogrames a re a small debt-ridden software house, riding on the coat-tails of the Atari name, who have yet to make a profit in their history. They have made some spectacular losses of over $750M in the last decade though and their financials show no sign of that changing )
In my personal experiences in life, there is only so much criticism I can take in at one time and it's nice to hear some positive feedback every once in a while. It helps to get through the long days of sorting through hate mail. If you look at my post, I made some suggestions in a calm collective manner that if the developers see it, they may take my suggestions into a level on consideration unlike a suggestion like this:
This game is so f***ing messed up and it f***ing sucks!!! I'm going to quit my f***ing subscription if you don't fix this this and f***ing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chances are they get garbage like this all the time and quite frankly those of us who like the game don't care and don't want to hear it and would prefer that more important things get fixed rather than the satisfaction of pathetic nitpicking.
Also for the record, Star Trek II is the best Trek movie EVER!!! The reason it's still better than the TNG movies is because all of those suck;)
Its not just on this forum. The majority of professional reviews for this game have been mostly negative as well. Its unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Just did not happen that way. The "2 year cheap mmo" machine was already in motion before Atari even noticed Cryptic.
I'll check back after the summer and see how things are, I'm half expecting to only find lifers to still be playing.
Good luck
Speaking of which, I am fairly certain playing STO is a LOT more fun than beting bitten by a snapping turtle. Then again, I've never been bitten by a snapping turtle, so I don't really know for certain if that's true. It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility, I suppose, that being bitten by a snapping turtle might actually be more fun than playing STO (especially when trying to PVP on that stupid map in which respawning in the wall is such a frequent occurrence). I suppose I should go find a snapping turtle and get it to bite me, so I will be able to offer meaningful feedback...
Nah.
HELL NO to being bitten by a snapping turtle.
I suppose thats the case... I have no fact just opinion and what "feels" true.
Is Cryptic responsible for their own time frame and schedule? Probably.
Does it reinforce the design goal of MMediOcrity? Absolutely.
But in their defense it is more the INDUSTRY that forced that then anything else. With the ultra success of the 800lbs gorilla and the subsequent flop of AoC and WAR most developers that aren't tied to endless bags of cash (Bioware) are going to trend to a low cost, low development MMO and buy time while WoW burns itself out like a neutron star.
It makes sense from a business prospective considering their cost/profit ratio sits green much easier if they didn't spend a billion dollars and 5 years in development it just sucks from a player perspective because it has forces game companies to play safe and take no risk meaning the next 5 years will be as bland as the last 5 years.
A tleast we have Civilization 5 in the fall...god bless sid.
Do I feel sorry for the developers in the trenches? Not a bit. They're doing a job , and if Cryptic tanks they can move on to another company easily enough. We don't owe them any job security. Most of us have had to do the same thing a few times in our lives I imagine.
There's no feeling sorry for the higher ups at Cryptic either, no excuse good enough for how they've messed up the development and release of STO, and no excuse good enough for how they have carried on with using lies and dishonest business practices.
I offer you this as an interesting read. No agenda, it's just an article on the future of MMOs which I enjoyed. It mentions STO briefly.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-state-of-the-mmo-in-2010-article?page=1
Also I may not be around much longer. Due to infraction points never expiring I now have 18. As soon as the team come into work tomorrow, if the past week is anything to go by, I'll pick up more just for 'posting with one leg off the floor', and being 2 points away from a permaban means I'll not see any of you again.
but it's been fun
See I don't blame the industry. The industry has lots of room and lots of money for good developers, Blizzard, Bungie, id, Bioware, Infitity Ward (up until recently) and many others have built a rock solid reputation on making 'AAA' titles with alot of polish and care put into them. You know when you buy a game thats been made by one of those companies it won't be a half finished buggy mess or it wouldn't be released.
The companies that don't put out the the high quality products tend to follow the Cryptic buisness model. Build a cheap half finished product, market the TRIBBLE out of it and take what you can get before your venture fails. Those companies usually don't last long. Cryptic got lucky with the Star Trek license but I don't know if even that will be enough to save them in the long run when the more professional devs start releasing their products next year. The Bioware product with a rather popular sci-fi license coming out next year pops to the top of my mind.
I really hope Cryptic does get its act together because there are so few decent sci-fi MMO's out there. For now I've cancelled my subscription but I'll check back in a year and see if things are a little more ironed out by then.
Then please PM the links to this information. As the information that I have found is contrary to this. You did post the financials a while back and I was thank full as it was good information. However, if you have further information I would like to see it. CBS did have a time limit placed on STO. This has been confirmed before. It was even mentioned in the October 2009 Issue of Game informer.
Well I might not be far off...but for reasons that involve hypothetical scenarios, cake, and breaks.
I have to drive to the airport soon and I've covered all this in detail in the past. I'll take a look at some stuff for you later but to be honest it's all from jack's mouth so it's pretty much set in stone.
I fail to see where in any situation CBS are in a position to sell a rights package, negotiate royalties and then have the temerity to tell someone how to make their own product. I think you are misunderstanding that relationship and just how such things work.
Sure, if CBS had commissioned a Star Trek game to be made ( and if they had they would have funded and published it ) then they have a say on development but they did not. CBS did not have a care if the game was made or not. A small California company said "hey, can we pay you royalties to make this game?" And CBS agreed.
All they have to do then is ensure the protection of their brand ( with oversight on the content ) and sit back waiting for the cheques.
A 'time limit' that you may be referring to is the duration of the rights license. As with anything these things are finite and always up for review and renewal. There will have been a specific period in which the license is active but that in no way gives CBS control over development.
It would make no sense for CBS to have Cryptic take over Perpetual's license and then allow Cryptic to be taken over by Atari. If the project belonged to CBS then they would have just brushed Atari aside, funded the project and published the product themselves.