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Cryptic got the torpedos wrong.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I was watching the Voyager episode: Year of Hell. The Chroniton torpedos are the ones that go through shields because they're in a state of Chronometric flux. There weren't any torpedos that slow ships down.

The Transphasics should be the most devastating standard torpedo in the game with a larger kinetic force than Quantums but less than Tricobalts with a crit percentage chance like the Anti-Proton weapons.

How did Cryptic miss this entirely? Did they even watch Star Trek?!
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Possibly a case of balance. Torpedoes that bypass shields can easily be an I-Win button.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Transphasic torpedoes do have a shield penetrating component to their attack, which was modeled as a chance to penetrate shields in the game. Both they and quantums torpedoes have been shown to be equally devastating, but like most things in Star Trek it all depends on the story they're being used in.

    But, pretty much what the above poster said on the chroniton torpedoes. The only way they'd ever let them completely bypass shields 100% of the time is if they did pitiful hull damage. Otherwise they'd be way out of balance. It's probably safe to assume by this point in the game that the temporal shielding idea has been expanded upon and included in all vessels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    DarkElfa wrote: »
    I was watching the Voyager episode: Year of Hell. The Chroniton torpedos are the ones that go through shields because they're in a state of Chronometric flux. There weren't any torpedos that slow ships down.

    The Transphasics should be the most devastating standard torpedo in the game with a larger kinetic force than Quantums but less than Tricobalts with a crit percentage chance like the Anti-Proton weapons.

    How did Cryptic miss this entirely? Did they even watch Star Trek?!

    I'm going to get slaughtered by hardcores for this (especially thoughs that wrote memory alpha).

    The problem is that they have only ever been seen used on Borg ships. And Borg ships don't actually use traditional shields (they just don't - go watch any TNG episode with Borg in it you will never see a Borg ship shield or better yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fsCGSoo2k4), they instead use a combination hull polarization and internal shields.

    So the Transphasics were directly connecting with the hull, but of course all the hardcores (and Cryptic it seems as they designed their Borg with shields) who firmly believe that Borg ships do have shields are of course denying this and claim that Transphasics must be able to go through sheilds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    So the Transphasics were directly connecting with the hull, but of course all the hardcores (and Cryptic it seems as they designed their Borg with shields) who firmly believe that Borg ships do have shields are of course denying this and claim that Transphasics must be able to go through sheilds.

    I don't know about completely ignoring shields, but their damage is supposed to be partially shield penetrating, i.e. more bleedthrough. I think that's from one of the novels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'm going to get slaughtered by hardcores for this (especially thoughs that wrote memory alpha).

    The problem is that they have only ever been seen used on Borg ships. And Borg ships don't actually use traditional shields (they just don't - go watch any TNG episode with Borg in it you will never see a Borg ship shield or better yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fsCGSoo2k4), they instead use a combination hull polarization and internal shields.

    So the Transphasics were directly connecting with the hull, but of course all the hardcores (and Cryptic it seems as they designed their Borg with shields) who firmly believe that Borg ships do have shields are of course denying this and claim that Transphasics must be able to go through sheilds.

    Not trying to rip into you but slight corrections...

    TNG - Best of Both Worlds - In order to rescue Picard, Data and Worf travel in a shuttle to bypass the Borg Electro Magnetic Force Field that surrounds the hull

    Agreed this is not a shield in the traditional sense, but...

    VOY - Dark Frontier - In order to counter a weapon use by a species in the delta quadrant 7 of 9 suggests the Borg triangulate their shield geometry to absorb the weapon energy.

    So it is cannon that the Borg have Shields and the transphasic torps should bypass it and phase through part of the hull before exploding inside the Borg ship.

    Chroniton torps should bypass the shields all together but the percentage of hull damage should only be about 5%-10% as voyager survived several hits by these types of torps before developing the temporal shields in Year of Hell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I don't think Cryptic watched any Star Trek whatsoever. Sure they may have received some Star Trek production material but thats it. I still can't believe that Cryptic gave Species 8472 a name. I mean what were they thinking. The Undine is not canon Cryptic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I don't think Cryptic watched any Star Trek whatsoever. Sure they may have received some Star Trek production material but thats it. I still can't believe that Cryptic gave Species 8472 a name. I mean what were they thinking. The Undine is not canon Cryptic.

    It's their job to create lore, not simply reflect it. That means changing and advancing the story to places where it didn't go in the shows.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    well done guys :) i support ya lol... guess another thread that devs wont give attention or care to it
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I don't think Cryptic watched any Star Trek whatsoever. Sure they may have received some Star Trek production material but thats it. I still can't believe that Cryptic gave Species 8472 a name. I mean what were they thinking. The Undine is not canon Cryptic.

    One thing that everyone needs to remember. CBS (Owner of the Strek Trek franchise) has approvel over everything that goes into the game. CBS said it was OK for Star Trek Online. So it's now soft canon for STO.

    And the species name Undine which translates to Fedreation Standard as "Groundskeepers" (from the Novel) is a nod to another book. A book that featured Species 8472 they said they species is called "Groundskeepers".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Everyone crying about cryptic inventing stuff have to realize one thing: When cryptic DOES stuff, CBS has to approve it.

    The only other thing to keep in mind is that although Trek strives to be internally consistent, this is never 100%. Crying about how the devs are bad because they got their lore wrong for what is obviously balance reasons is just foolish.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Lore aside, I don't really care what they do with chroniton and transphasic torpedoes, if they just improve them (including plasma torpedoes, and possibly tricobalts too). I can understand Cryptic attempting to balance the special torpedoes with the conventional ones, but they were far off. Right now, quantum torpedoes are by far the best torpedo in the game, period. It doesn't matter what situation you're in, even if the enemy has a lot of shield regeneration abilities, quantums are still better than transphasics. Quantums also cost the least skill points to specialize in, so stat-wise, there's no reason to use any other torpedo, ever. I hope Cryptic either changes the skill point system, or makes other torpedoes actually viable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well, I don't expect them to give Chronitons the ability to go through shield everytime, but at least give them the shield penetration chance and change the proc on Transphasics to crit proc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    captnwan wrote: »
    Possibly a case of balance. Torpedoes that bypass shields can easily be an I-Win button.

    ^^^^

    He has it right. One thing shte devs have made clear is that canon will yield to fun (or no fun as the case may be). Transphasic Torpedoes and Chtroniton Torpedoes implement in game as it was in the screen. Well only the bad guys would have them. No way would it be a good idea to give it to players. It was either that or make them a lot less effective and allwo the player to have access to them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    DarkElfa wrote: »
    I was watching the Voyager episode: Year of Hell. The Chroniton torpedos are the ones that go through shields because they're in a state of Chronometric flux. There weren't any torpedos that slow ships down.

    The Transphasics should be the most devastating standard torpedo in the game with a larger kinetic force than Quantums but less than Tricobalts with a crit percentage chance like the Anti-Proton weapons.

    How did Cryptic miss this entirely? Did they even watch Star Trek?!

    I agree with this!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I always wondered why the chroniton and transphasic skills are in the wrong spots in the skill tree. I wish they would swap the chroniton skill to captain and move transphasic to admiral (or switch the rank that you need to use those weapons). I never liked the fact that one commander level weapon needed admiral points to spec in.

    (also, I'm totally obsessed with chronitons and spec'ing in them at captain would make me very happy):D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    DarkElfa wrote: »
    I was watching the Voyager episode: Year of Hell. The Chroniton torpedos are the ones that go through shields because they're in a state of Chronometric flux. There weren't any torpedos that slow ships down.

    The Transphasics should be the most devastating standard torpedo in the game with a larger kinetic force than Quantums but less than Tricobalts with a crit percentage chance like the Anti-Proton weapons.

    How did Cryptic miss this entirely? Did they even watch Star Trek?!

    You cite this but not how, even while getting mercilessly trashed up one side and down the other through the Year of Hell, Voyager's shields were very quickly adapted so the Chroniton Torpedoes didn't penetrate?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    DarkElfa wrote: »
    I was watching the Voyager episode: Year of Hell. The Chroniton torpedos are the ones that go through shields because they're in a state of Chronometric flux. There weren't any torpedos that slow ships down.

    The Transphasics should be the most devastating standard torpedo in the game with a larger kinetic force than Quantums but less than Tricobalts with a crit percentage chance like the Anti-Proton weapons.

    How did Cryptic miss this entirely? Did they even watch Star Trek?!

    It took Voyager less than a year to render Chroniton torpedoes useless for penetrating shields, and Transphasic torpedoes went right through Borg shields. Did you even watch Star Trek?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Interesting thread. Maybe Cryptic should look into this. It's very easy to overlook simple things as a matter of perception. I have no idea if one way is right or the other but it is nice to try and align to the literature and media that is available as much as possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's their job to create lore, not simply reflect it. That means changing and advancing the story to places where it didn't go in the shows.

    Well, they chose a TRIBBLE TRIBBLE name for Species 8472, since "Undines" are traditionally water nymphs or elementals. The only thing I can think of that supports this name in any form whatsoever is the Fluidic Space, and if this is why they named them Undine, it's not only pathetic but equally atrocious.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Culann wrote: »
    Well, they chose a TRIBBLE TRIBBLE name for Species 8472, since "Undines" are traditionally water nymphs or elementals. The only thing I can think of that supports this name in any form whatsoever is the Fluidic Space, and if this is why they named them Undine, it's not only pathetic but equally atrocious.

    Ever heard of The Undine's Curse?

    It's possible for the parts of the brain that control the automatic breathing reflex to become damaged, forcing a person to be entirely reliant on conscious effort to breathe. Before artificial resperation devices, this was quickly fatal - you sleep, you die.

    The combination of that and Fluidic Space is why I think Undine is actually a very appropriate name. They're extremely difficult to fight effectively because as soon as you let your guard down, they've replaced all your friends and crewmates and left you with just your Captain Proton holonovel collection.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    syberghost wrote: »
    It took Voyager less than a year to render Chroniton torpedoes useless for penetrating shields, and Transphasic torpedoes went right through Borg shields. Did you even watch Star Trek?

    You must have some kind of personal issue with me syberghost because you come in on the opposite side of every thread I make like its your goal in life while simultaneously defending the devs against any crit. Yes, I watched Star Trek, I've watched every Trek series and every episode. what I said was completely correct.

    The point is that Transphasics were known not for shield penetration but for their destructive force while Chronitons were know for their ability to go through shields due to Chronometric flux. Either way, Chronitons were never know for slowing down ships, thats just TRIBBLE.

    Now stop being a **** about everything I post and if the devs want to defend themselves, let them do and stop being a white knight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The Chronitons probably should have been balanced to bypass shields, do light hull damage but significant crew damage. That could cripple a ships ability to repair itself or restore subsystems and would fit the lore since the raditation from them did a number on Voyager's crew iirc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Going by the name, Transphasic torpedoes sounds like something of those "out-of-phase-shifting" some critters and cloaking device in Startrek could do. Makes sense that these penetrate shields.
    Chronitons having the same effect would be strange.

    What I wonder about is are Plasma Torpedoes. Maybe I just played to much Startrek: 25th Anniversary, but I remember Plasma Torpedoes shredding shields. And then hulls.

    Sure, having torpedoes that are effective both against shields and hull and deal massive damage is unbalanced... Still. It might be interesting to have torpedo type that works well against shields (with damage comparable to energy weapons). And also an energy weapon that is more effective against hulls. (Though Anti-Protons might fit the bill already.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ossirian wrote: »
    The Chronitons probably should have been balanced to bypass shields, do light hull damage but significant crew damage. That could cripple a ships ability to repair itself or restore subsystems and would fit the lore since the raditation from them did a number on Voyager's crew iirc.

    /facepalm

    Without any outside technical support, while under constant attack, the USS Voyager managed to overcome the shield-penetrating effect of chroniton torpedoes. I think it's safe to say that Starfleet long ago made that a general upgrade.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    DarkElfa wrote: »
    I was watching the Voyager episode: Year of Hell. The Chroniton torpedos are the ones that go through shields because they're in a state of Chronometric flux. There weren't any torpedos that slow ships down.

    The Transphasics should be the most devastating standard torpedo in the game with a larger kinetic force than Quantums but less than Tricobalts with a crit percentage chance like the Anti-Proton weapons.

    How did Cryptic miss this entirely? Did they even watch Star Trek?!

    That was 30+ years ago, things have changed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Balance > "Canon"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    DarkElfa wrote: »
    The point is that Transphasics were known not for shield penetration but for their destructive force while Chronitons were know for their ability to go through shields due to Chronometric flux. Either way, Chronitons were never know for slowing down ships, thats just TRIBBLE.

    You're not giving transphasic torpedoes the credit they deserve. They don't simply do "a lot of damage", they have a shield piercing component - and that's from lore outside of the game. Inside of the game this is represented by an increased chance to penetrate shields. That's more or less spot on; Cryptic didn't make this one up.

    I can understand not allowing chroniton torpedoes to not completely bypass shields for balance purposes, and I can understand not making them clones of transphasic torpedoes. That left Cryptic with no choice but to make their own effect up. It was either that or not using them at all as, honestly, without the ability to bypass shields (which Voyager figured out how to prevent) they've always seemed (lore-wise) pretty crappy as far as torpedo damage goes.
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