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[Suggestion] Memory Alpha Revamp Proposal

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Memory Alpha Revamp Proposal

I’ve been meaning to post this for quite some time, but keep getting distracted with just about any shiny object that comes into view. It may even be too late at this time to suggest such a change, with what they’ve discussed already for Memory Alpha:
dstahl wrote:
Here's some details about how we'll be making Memory Alpha less confusing.

First some details about how Memory Alpha is set up
There are 7 different research skills that offer a list of upgrades. The Basic research skill is what you see when you start talking to Romaine. Once you've made enough upgrades with the Basic research skill "store", then it unlocks 3 additional research lists which lean towards requiring either Physical, Technological, or Energy anomaly data. Once you've made enough upgrades in one of those groups, it unlocks an advanced version of that "store".

Basic research skill allows you to upgrade Mark 2 gear
Physical, Technological, and Engery research skill allows you to upgrade Mark 4 and 6 gear
Advanced Physical, Advanced Tech, and Advanced Energy research skill allows you to upgrade Mark 8 and 10 gear.

Many of the rare gear you can upgrade at Memory Alpha is not available anywhere else in the game - as it contains unique combinations of bonuses not found on lootable gear.

Now here's what we're doing to make all of this much clearer to the player
  • Adding a new UI that shows you all research skill paths and the items that can be made in each list, as well as the items required - which players can view at any time (ie you don't need to be at Memory Alpha)
  • Each research skill will display the number of skill ups required to hit maximum in that research and unlock the next level.
  • Each item will tell you how many skill ups you'll receive for making it. And then update your progress meter once you make it.
  • Instead of talking to an NPC to "purchase" the upgrade, you'll instead go to a specific research computer at Memory Alpha and "make" the updgraded item.
  • We'll be evaluating and reducing the number of "anomaly data" required to make each item
  • We're going to leave the 140 items that can be upgraded as is for now until we can see how they work with the new system (which we'll evaluate and tweak with your feedback).
  • Any player will be able to achieve max skill in each research type - and there are no level restrictions.
These changes will make it much clearer how to progress as well as give you the ability to look up an item you really want to make - and know exactly what you need to get there.

For those who have already progressed at the current implementation of Memory Alpha - we will be converting your existing progress to the new research skill system so you shouldn't have to redo any research.

We are trying to get the basics of this on to Tribble next week for testing - but since it is a new system - we're not going to release it to Holodeck until it has had some testing and player feedback rounds - so while scheduled for Season 1.1 - we're not going to push it out if it isn't ready, and we'll keep it on Tribble until it is in good shape.

However, this seems less like a revamp and more like just cleaning up the current system and making it slightly less obtuse to figure out what’s going on with it. Here’s my proposal (some of these ideas may or may not have already been discussed):

Use your replicator more:

Replicators currently act as “stores” and perhaps that shouldn’t change so much. However, they can be so much more useful!
  • Replicators should “learn” the patterns of the items you toss into it.
  • Every item will have a “complexity level” which is basically how many times you must toss a particular item into your replicator to “learn it”.
  • Once an item is learned, you can replicate it for energy credits
    • You can only “learn” common (white) items in this manner
    • If you toss in an Uncommon (green) or rarer quality item in your replicator, it will count toward learning the common version of it, with the additional EC relative to the bonus value of the rarity.
Keeping Memory Alpha relevant

A lot of work has been put into making Memory Alpha, and it should remain relevant. However, Memory Alpha should be a research center, not a manufacturing factory. In order to reinforce this idea:
  • Use Memory Alpha to get uncommon and rarer quality recipes, and special item unlocks (costume pieces, ship parts, cosmetic unlocks)
  • to learn the recipes, you still use the anomalies
  • learning recipes does not require the base item, only the anomalies
    • the recipe itself may require a base item to make the object, but it doesn’t require a base item to install the recipe in your replicator
    • the uncommon or rarer recipe still uses anomalies as well
  • with the introduction of the injury system, add recipes for minor and major regenerators and components
A new idea for Energy Credits

Another idea I’ve been mulling around that goes along with a crafting revamp is an overhaul of what makes up our current Energy Credit system, and incorporating a new use of the scanned anomalies to go with it.
  • Our total Energy Credits are actually a “pool” made up of different subtypes of energy credits. Originally, I was thinking of breaking things down into their basic elements, but then imagined the databases exploding and Cryptic employees clawing their eyes out in an “Event Horizon” type event when trying to figure out how many units of which elements make up a serving of Vulcan Plomeek Soup. So to simplify things, 3 basic EC subtypes, coinciding with the types of anomalies we scan:
    • Mineral: these are basically things like metals, stones, crystals
    • Biological: Organic components, proteins, hydrocarbons
    • Technological: Basically, the more complex something is, the more of this subtype it will use (or refund if you toss something in the replicator).
  • Item recipes from your personal replicator will cost some mix of the different types
  • Vendors on starbases, cargo ships, etc. (not your own personal replicator) are only interested in general EC, it doesn’t matter how many of what subtype you have when dealing with vendors.
    • when purchasing something from an outside vendor deducting from your total EC, the EC subtypes are drained as equally as possible from what you have
    • likewise, general EC gained from selling items to vendors or the Exchange will be split as evenly as possible between the 3 subtypes.
  • this should keep vendors important, as it will allow you still purchase something if you have enough total energy credits, but not enough of a specific type to replicate it yourself.
  • Common (white) patterns learned will cost the same total amount of EC to produce as it does to buy from vendors, but in order to replicate it yourself, you must have the appropriate amounts of the EC subtypes
  • Scanned Anomalies can be tossed into your replicator to supplement your EC
    • you cannot retrieve Scanned Anomalies after you’ve tossed them in your replicator
    • The anomalies will give increasing amounts of their relative subtype according to tier (red=lowest, yellow/gold=highest)
    • this will keep anomalies valuable even after you’ve learned all the recipes you want, since you can use it to supplement your EC, and if you’re short on a specific subtype to replicate something, you can toss in some of the same subtype of anomalies into your replicator.

Questions? Comments?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    However, this seems less like a revamp and more like just cleaning up the current system and making it slightly less obtuse to figure out what’s going on with it. Here’s my proposal (some of these ideas may or may not have already been discussed):

    Star Trek: Online's crafting isn't so much gear based as it is rarity and modifier-based. The chief idea behind crafting is, instead of crafting new items, you improve already existing items. This lets us move away from crafting skills that create items that quickly become outclassed by mission rewards or item drops. There's no easy way to resolve this except gradual changeovers and keeping Memory Alpha relevant is required.
    Use your replicator more:

    Replicators currently act as “stores” and perhaps that shouldn’t change so much. However, they can be so much more useful!
    • Replicators should “learn” the patterns of the items you toss into it.
    • Every item will have a “complexity level” which is basically how many times you must toss a particular item into your replicator to “learn it”.
    • Once an item is learned, you can replicate it for energy credits
      • You can only “learn” common (white) items in this manner
      • If you toss in an Uncommon (green) or rarer quality item in your replicator, it will count toward learning the common version of it, with the additional EC relative to the bonus value of the rarity.

    "Learning" seems a bit obtuse and too code-heavy. There are two pitfalls to any crafting system, and those are farming and failure. This combines factors of both. "Learning" requires a failure step. If, because the value of the item is too high, the learning doesn't take, then you've done the same as deny them the opportunity to craft by forcing the player to expend an item. The solution then, as your suggestion posits, is to farm enough items to toss into the replicator for it to learn.

    But, I have a separate idea. I'll get into this in a moment.
    Keeping Memory Alpha relevant

    A lot of work has been put into making Memory Alpha, and it should remain relevant. However, Memory Alpha should be a research center, not a manufacturing factory. In order to reinforce this idea:
    • Use Memory Alpha to get uncommon and rarer quality recipes, and special item unlocks (costume pieces, ship parts, cosmetic unlocks)
    • to learn the recipes, you still use the anomalies
    • learning recipes does not require the base item, only the anomalies
      • the recipe itself may require a base item to make the object, but it doesn’t require a base item to install the recipe in your replicator
      • the uncommon or rarer recipe still uses anomalies as well
    • with the introduction of the injury system, add recipes for minor and major regenerators and components

    I'll agree that Memory Alpha needs to stay current and relevant--though I'm slightly taken aback at "recipes." Memory Alpha's focus should shift into something more than a recipe hub--instead, it should offer Bind on Pick-Up upgrades that is a). tier relevant, b). can be applied on the intended equipment for its tier. Pretty much, it sells enhancements that cannot stack with existing enhancements. This lets you move forward, save up upgrades, and apply them at your own pace. It cuts out the replicator churning out equipment for you that may be profitable over the Exchange (and thereby flooding it), though BoPU replicator items may make this null and void.

    I think it's more towards the theme of the game to keep Memory Alpha as less of a skill trainer and more of a place where research is done and something comes out of it that is usable. It also helps alleviate the issue of replicating entire starship components, like Phaser Bank Arrays.
    A new idea for Energy Credits

    Another idea I’ve been mulling around that goes along with a crafting revamp is an overhaul of what makes up our current Energy Credit system, and incorporating a new use of the scanned anomalies to go with it.
    • Our total Energy Credits are actually a “pool” made up of different subtypes of energy credits. Originally, I was thinking of breaking things down into their basic elements, but then imagined the databases exploding and Cryptic employees clawing their eyes out in an “Event Horizon” type event when trying to figure out how many units of which elements make up a serving of Vulcan Plomeek Soup. So to simplify things, 3 basic EC subtypes, coinciding with the types of anomalies we scan:
      • Mineral: these are basically things like metals, stones, crystals
      • Biological: Organic components, proteins, hydrocarbons
      • Technological: Basically, the more complex something is, the more of this subtype it will use (or refund if you toss something in the replicator).
    • Item recipes from your personal replicator will cost some mix of the different types
    • Vendors on starbases, cargo ships, etc. (not your own personal replicator) are only interested in general EC, it doesn’t matter how many of what subtype you have when dealing with vendors.
      • when purchasing something from an outside vendor deducting from your total EC, the EC subtypes are drained as equally as possible from what you have
      • likewise, general EC gained from selling items to vendors or the Exchange will be split as evenly as possible between the 3 subtypes.
    • this should keep vendors important, as it will allow you still purchase something if you have enough total energy credits, but not enough of a specific type to replicate it yourself.
    • Common (white) patterns learned will cost the same total amount of EC to produce as it does to buy from vendors, but in order to replicate it yourself, you must have the appropriate amounts of the EC subtypes
    • Scanned Anomalies can be tossed into your replicator to supplement your EC
      • you cannot retrieve Scanned Anomalies after you’ve tossed them in your replicator
      • The anomalies will give increasing amounts of their relative subtype according to tier (red=lowest, yellow/gold=highest)
      • this will keep anomalies valuable even after you’ve learned all the recipes you want, since you can use it to supplement your EC, and if you’re short on a specific subtype to replicate something, you can toss in some of the same subtype of anomalies into your replicator.

    Subtypes of Energy Credits clutter and confuse people, the same way anomalies clutter your inventory and confuse players. It leads to the problem that you have to micromanage your currencies--which isn't something I'd be too interested in. It will confuse the hell out of EC spammers, though. Star Trek introduced multiple currency from the onset, instead of making it simply a PVP reward or high-end content reward. Keeping it simpler--that is, the way it is now--keeps everyone happy.

    I mentioned before that Memory Alpha should offer ground equipment and starship component upgrades. So what of your "learning" option? Consumables. Consumables such as energy cells, shield charges, and hyposprays, etc. shouldn't be dumped into the replicator, but instead should be handled by the player--whether through Memory Alpha research (which yields it into a crafting trainer, but one that's reasonable), so once you learn it, you can replicate it as normal using anomaly data.

    Mind you, I don't entirely disagree with your approach, nor am I screaming, "Well that's just stupid!" You have some very well thought out suggestions, and though I do not entirely agree with them, my suggestions are a counter-thought.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Hmmm.....

    Very well-thought out concepts indeed. I'd have to sleep on them a while before posting any real feedback, but I do very much think we can get far more use out of our replicators than we do now, so almost any change in that department looks..... shiny.

    Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a slightly more "complex" economy (in terms of sub-resources and /or additional uses for existing ones.) So long as there is enough freedom to allow players to bypass the complexity if they choose and play a bit more casually.

    Live long ----
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Crossposting my suggestion in Engineering Reports since it seems germane to this conversation:
    Red.Line wrote: »
    I'm going to be honest. I'm spoiled ... and lazy. :p

    I don't know if you've detailed anywhere exactly what direction you're planning on taking Memory Alpha ... but what I'm really "wanting" in a Memory Alpha Update is ... a la carte. I want to be able to pick my base item, and choose what mods to graft onto it ... once I've "mastered" that particular class of items, and that particular class of mods. I want a "free form" modification system that lets ME pick what I want to make, and it then calculates up the demands in raw materials for me.

    The way I'd envision this working is going to get a little involved ... but there's no way around that if you're going to have a system with any measure of complexity in it whatsoever. So apologies in advance for WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU. :o





    The in-game economy needs to have a way to "devour" or "crush" items to use as fuel for player priorities and initiatives. I propose that every basic common item in the game be "crushable" as a means for Players to "learn" that specific class of item. I furthermore propose that every modifier that can be put on items ALSO be "crushable" as a means for Players to "learn" how to add that specific modifier onto any item.

    Example:
    When "crushing" a Phaser Beam Array Mk IV [CrtH] for knowledge of these systems, a player could choose to advance (pick one):
    1. Phaser Beam Arrays (Mk IV)
    2. (Mk IV) [CrtH]
    The number of "knowledge points" gained in from each "crushing" would be determined by Mk Number of the item being disassembled/destroyed for analysis/learning. Mk IV would mean 4 Knowledge Points.

    In order to USE the Knowledge Points you gain from "crushing" items at Memory Alpha in order to craft/add a modifier to an item you need:
    • (Mk Number)^2 * (Modifiers Added)^2 = Knowledge Points Required
    So if I wanted to take a common (white) Phaser Beam Array Mk IV and add a [CrtH] modifier onto it, I would need:
    • (Mk IV)^2 * (1)^2 = 4^2 * 1^2 = 16 Knowledge Points
    I would need to have 16 Knowledge Points in Phaser Beam Arrays ... and 16 Knowledge Points in [CrtH] modifiers. If I have enough Knowledge Points in both of these areas ... and the necessary Anomaly Data to "fuel" the crafting I want to do ... I can add the [CrtH] modifier onto a Phaser Beam Array Mk IV.

    If instead, I wanted to take an uncommon (green) Phaser Beam Array Mk IV [CrtH] and add a second [CrtH] modifier onto it, I would need:
    • (Mk IV)^2 * (2)^2 = 4^2 * 2^2 = 64 Knowledge Points
    I would need to have 64 Knowledge Points in Phaser Beam Arrays ... and 64 Knowledge Points in [CrtH] modifiers. If I have enough Knowledge Points in both of these areas ... and the necessary Anomaly Data to "fuel" the crafting I want to do ... I can add a second [CrtH] modifier onto a Phaser Beam Array Mk IV [CrtH]. If I'd wanted to add a [CrtD] modifier instead of a [CrtH] modifier, I would need to have 64 Knowledge Points in Phaser Beam Arrays, [CrtH] *and* [CrtD] each in order to add that second modifier.

    No item can have more than 3 modifiers crafted onto it (ie. purple).

    The Knowledge Points system would "top out" at 900 (10 squared multiplied by 3 squared) for each class of item and for each modifier that can be put on those items. :cool:

    Such a system would be "free form" enough that players would have every incentive to "specialize" in particular item classes and modifiers for those items ... since in order to craft 3 totally dissimilar mods onto any Mk X item would require 900 skill points in 4 different areas ... for a total of 3600 Knowledge Points ... which would equal 360 items (minimum!) be "crushed" to learn that level of knowledge (and crafting).

    Crafting Greens is easy.
    Crafting Purples is the work of "a lifetime" ...

    The important thing is that knowledge gained from "crushing" items is never lost or rendered obsolete by level advancement. Even if you're at the Level Cap, you can still advance your crafting skill(s) by "crushing" Mk I items (albeit slowly). This will in turn place market pressures on ALL items which can be posted in the Exchange, since there's always someone somewhere who can find a use for something which you might consider "worthless" or unimportant. There will be a Supply and a Demand for items of ALL Mk Numbers and ALL Modifiers to fuel the "crafting economy" in ways which individual players can tailor to suit their OWN needs.





    Which then brings up the question of whether these crafted items should be "allowed" back into the common pool of the item economy ... or if they ought to be Bind on Pickup?

    I'm personally in favor of a Bind on Pickup rule for crafted items in STO ... simply because allowing players to craft and sell will, over time, skew the game's item economy in a "runaway" fashion towards Purple Inflation. That's because the Knowledge Points gained from "crushing" items would never "go away" ... and as the game ages and matures, higher levels of Knowledge Points would (necessarily) push the baseline expectation of "performance" from items further and further towards the Purple end of the scale as the number of "Purple Rated" crafters in the game only ever decreases when a player unsubscribes.

    So for the long term "health" of the item economy in STO I think that a Bind on Pickup crafting model would pretty much have to be required.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I think the next time we warp into Memory Alpha we should get to see the Memory Alpha mind erasing creature pass over it wiping everything in it clean followed by the disappearance of all those stupid data TRIBBLE things in all the maps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Since seeing the current Memory Alpha build, I've revised a portion of my original revamp idea, building on to the concept of consoles:

    Keeping Memory Alpha relevant


    A lot of work has been put into making Memory Alpha, and it should remain relevant. However, Memory Alpha should be a research center, not an industrial manufacturing factory. In order to reinforce this idea:
    • Use Memory Alpha to get uncommon and rarer quality recipes for armor, weapons, shields, devices, and special item unlocks (costume pieces, ship parts, cosmetic unlocks)
    • To learn new recipes, you still must skill up to the appropriate level and speak to the appropriate scientist at Memory Alpha to get access to the pattern at the consoles.
      • I'm not sure if you'd necessarily need to see a scientist for every recipe, but you should see the scientists more than just once for the basic recipes and a second time for all the advanced recipes... Probably split up the level bands a little bit more.
    • While white (common) items can be made from your replicator, green (uncommon) or rarer items must be fabricated at special consoles at Memory Alpha -OR- in your Engineering or Science bays if/when ship interiors get implemented
    • Green or rarer items made at consoles still require base White (common) items:
      • If you've already learned the common version of the item (say, Mk VI Plasma Pistol), you can get the item from your replicator for an Energy Credit cost
      • You would then take that common item to a console (at Memory Alpha or in your ship) to modify into a rarer version of it.
    • with the introduction of the injury system, add recipes for Minor and Major regenerators and components. (I'm of the opinion that Critical Injuries and Damage should still be taken care of at a facility like SB1 or DS9, but there should be at least one facility like that in every Sector Block, but that's for another post)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    How about using Memory Alpha to create items that modify gear you already have?
    Things that add Accuracy, Critical Hit Chance, Critical Damage Severity, Additional Hit Points, Additional Capacity, Hit Point Regeneration, Shield Point Regeneration, etc. so you can modify your preferred weapons? I like AoE Cone weapons and prefer Regenerative shields on my characters, but I much prefer Resilient shields on my ships with Regeneration or Capacity.

    R&D improves on existing technologies a great deal of the time in Real Life(tm).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Jobe00 wrote: »
    How about using Memory Alpha to create items that modify gear you already have?
    Things that add Accuracy, Critical Hit Chance, Critical Damage Severity, Additional Hit Points, Additional Capacity, Hit Point Regeneration, Shield Point Regeneration, etc. so you can modify your preferred weapons? I like AoE Cone weapons and prefer Regenerative shields on my characters, but I much prefer Resilient shields on my ships with Regeneration or Capacity.

    R&D improves on existing technologies a great deal of the time in Real Life(tm).

    The problem with this is that they've already said that their item system doesn't support adding random or even assigned modifiers. Every variation of item that we have is created as an entire individual item in a database, not as a base item with modifier slots (even though it seems like they are, looking at their descriptors). The only thing you can "modify" (which isn't actually what you're doing) are base (white/common) items, where you trade them for a different individual item.

    What I'm trying to do is build within what they've got so far. They have stat trackers, so they could feasibly keep track of items that we toss in our replicator, for unlocking common items to purchase from the replicator.

    We've seen in the previous Memory Alpha build that they can have vendors that look for anomaly types. Changing the replicator to operate on "white/common" versions of anomalies that make up our energy credits would work the same way

    We see that they're able to assign a UI function to a 3D object via the consoles, so they should be able to provide similar consoles within ship interiors or other maps as well. (I think it would make more sense if they were able to limit certain types of crafting to certain types of consoles, but I'm not sure if they can get it to work that way)
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