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STO being billed in American Dollars

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Okay, for some people this is going to be insiginificant, for others this could be causing a headache. At the moment STO is billed in US Dollars over the website. This means that US players only have to pay that fixed amount and thats them, however players in Europe, for example me in the UK, that $14.99 has to be converted into pounds, then have 17.5% VAT added on.

Now in certains cases you get players like me who have been laid off and yet still like to pay to play STO because it generally is a good game but are low on money or just people who like to watch their money - now because of the whole conversion and the fact it takes 5 days for the debit to be run you never actually know how much your going to end up paying, especially since over that 5 day period the exchange rate can fluctuate and you end up paying according to what the exchange rate is at on that day which can be the difference between have access to £10 and not.

What I propose is rather simple: When you join up on STO you select your country, have that detected so it shows up how much they will have to pay in GBP or in wahtever currency their country uses (with Vats ect...included) so they know that is the amount they will pay and will be the amount they pay and avoid any risk of players going overdrawn, especially on the larger amounts.

(P.S. Maybe do the same for the C-Store, same issue here)

(Please sign below if agreed, or put down points if you disagree)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'm in the UK with Natwest and it charges me in UK £.

    I think you need to speak to your bank.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It charges in £ After conversion and would be shown as £ in a statement, and me and my bank have had a drawn out discussion about this :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Is the conversion that big of a difference? It's been years since I did exchange rate conversions and of course the world economy has changed a lot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It can be the difference on being able to withdraw some money and not being able to.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Good deal with the decline of the dollar!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I brought this up in the week of launch and was ignored.

    Cryptic advertise a price of £8.99, the same as WOW. But unlike WOW who actually charge £8.99 STO adds VAT (wow do to but it's inclusive ) which comes in to £10.34. I don't know today's exchange rate but the last time I did check that's $16.50 approximately.
    Sure it may not seem a lot but the fact remains that whilst the US is paying $15 we are paying $1.50 more here in the UK. It's the most expensive MMO in the UK today with less content than almost everything else including the free ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Delynandir wrote:
    It can be the difference on being able to withdraw some money and not being able to.

    I don't mean to sound snarky here so please take this as intended. I too have been laid off from a job and I too have had to pinch coin to make ends meet. It seems to me that if you are in such dire straights that you make the above statement, that maybe you should consider not paying for this "luxury" at this time. I understand that you want SOMETHING to do with your downtime. But, if laidoff maybe you need to reprioritise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I brought this up in the week of launch and was ignored.

    Cryptic advertise a price of £8.99, the same as WOW. But unlike WOW who actually charge £8.99 STO adds VAT (wow do to but it's inclusive ) which comes in to £10.34. I don't know today's exchange rate but the last time I did check that's $16.50 approximately.
    Sure it may not seem a lot but the fact remains that whilst the US is paying $15 we are paying $1.50 more here in the UK. It's the most expensive MMO in the UK today with less content than almost everything else including the free ones.

    That $1.50 more is becaue you have a VAT tax on internet purchases and we do not. I can't help that you abide by having a VAT tax. I would say that if you have a beef with the $1.50 extra, it is not with Cryptic but with your government.

    And just a point of reference, if you were paying in today's exchange rate without the VAT it would be 9.74 pounds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sure it may not seem a lot but the fact remains that whilst the US is paying $15 we are paying $1.50 more here in the UK. It's the most expensive MMO in the UK today with less content than almost everything else including the free ones.

    At the moment, you're paying for the unprescedented level of customer support. We have the most active and vocal dev team of any MMO I've played or seen. They get on here and discuss design decisions on a daily basis, and actually LISTEN to what we say, instead of just acting like they do.

    6 months or a year down the road, we'll have enough content to keep players busy, and at that point, you'll be paying for the game, and STILL receive the same level of communication (which will become a bonus at that point). If I didn't already have a lifetime subscription, I'd be perfectly happy to pay an extra $1.50 for that level of communication, especially considering my last major MMO was SWG (which SOE almost never talks to the players at all).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The local currency is strong, the Dollar is weak. I can get a large Frozen Pizza, and a medium Frozen Pizza instead of a month of STO maybe. Or two medium ones, and a soda, and the tiniest chocolate imaginable as a dessert. Chocolate is expensive here. ;)

    ---
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Gruug wrote: »
    That $1.50 more is becaue you have a VAT tax on internet purchases and we do not. I can't help that you abide by having a VAT tax. I would say that if you have a beef with the $1.50 extra, it is not with Cryptic but with your government.

    No it's not. The VAT is added to the advertised price of £8.99. It says so on the subscription page ( which is an addition since launch )

    Wow charges me £8.99 a month period ( it's actually less but I buy bulk months so not relevant )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Gruug wrote: »
    I don't mean to sound snarky here so please take this as intended. I too have been laid off from a job and I too have had to pinch coin to make ends meet. It seems to me that if you are in such dire straights that you make the above statement, that maybe you should consider not paying for this "luxury" at this time. I understand that you want SOMETHING to do with your downtime. But, if laidoff maybe you need to reprioritise.

    I can see where your coming from, the fact I play STO is because I can afford it and am not in THAT dire a straight - its just that due to the way this works it can leave you with £9 which cannot be withdrawn Via an ATM (Last months payment had to be put off as the gf wanted to be taken to lunch, the fleet was upset at my absence). it would just be more efficient from my point of view and make things easier and standardised.

    Lets just say that im being thorough about this ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Delynandir wrote:
    Okay, for some people this is going to be insiginificant, for others this could be causing a headache. At the moment STO is billed in US Dollars over the website. This means that US players only have to pay that fixed amount and thats them, however players in Europe, for example me in the UK, that $14.99 has to be converted into pounds, then have 17.5% VAT added on.

    Now in certains cases you get players like me who have been laid off and yet still like to pay to play STO because it generally is a good game but are low on money or just people who like to watch their money - now because of the whole conversion and the fact it takes 5 days for the debit to be run you never actually know how much your going to end up paying, especially since over that 5 day period the exchange rate can fluctuate and you end up paying according to what the exchange rate is at on that day which can be the difference between have access to £10 and not.

    What I propose is rather simple: When you join up on STO you select your country, have that detected so it shows up how much they will have to pay in GBP or in wahtever currency their country uses (with Vats ect...included) so they know that is the amount they will pay and will be the amount they pay and avoid any risk of players going overdrawn, especially on the larger amounts.

    (P.S. Maybe do the same for the C-Store, same issue here)

    (Please sign below if agreed, or put down points if you disagree)


    Please refer to here

    http://www.startrekonline.com/subscribe
    United Kingdom

    Monthly Per Month Total Total + VAT
    1-Month 8.99 GBP 8.99 GBP 10.34 GBP
    3-Month 8.39 GBP 25.17 GBP 28.95 GBP
    6-Month 7.69 GBP 46.14 GBP 53.06 GBP
    Lifetime* 192.49 GBP Varies**

    Europe

    Monthly Per Month Total Total + VAT
    1-Month 12.99 EUR 12.99 EUR 14.94 EUR
    3-Month 11.99 EUR 35.97 EUR 41.37 EUR
    6-Month 10.99 EUR 65.94 EUR 75.83 EUR
    Lifetime* 218.74 EUR Varies**

    Denmark

    Monthly Per Month Total Total + VAT
    1-Month 82.45 DKK 82.45 DKK 94.82 DKK
    3-Month 76.95 DKK 230.84 DKK 265.47 DKK
    6-Month 71.45 DKK 428.67 DKK 492.97 DKK
    Lifetime* 1625.00 DKK Varies**



    I think it is posted quite clear since it even has its own web page.

    even about VAT

    "** VAT will be added on top of the base price upon checkout, percentage varies based on your billing address."

    this is found on the STO main web site under Store / Subscribe.

    Not that hard to find.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sernon wrote:
    The local currency is strong, the Dollar is weak. I can get a large Frozen Pizza, and a medium Frozen Pizza instead of a month of STO maybe. Or two medium ones, and a soda, and the tiniest chocolate imaginable as a dessert. Chocolate is expensive here. ;)

    ---

    wow. I can get two 14", freshly made, American hot pizzas for less than the price of a month's STO sub. I can buy a 15 case of Stella Artois for £2 less than an STO sub. Trouble is I need one of those every 2 days to get me through the tedium of playing STO ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Please refer to here

    http://www.startrekonline.com/subscribe





    I think it is posted quite clear since it even has its own web page.

    even about VAT

    "** VAT will be added on top of the base price upon checkout, percentage varies based on your billing address."

    this is found on the STO main web site under Store / Subscribe.

    Not that hard to find.

    You know what is funny about this post? It's that Cryptic no longer seems to care about having a billing department take care of this stuff for them.

    Maybe you should bill them for your services!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Please refer to here

    http://www.startrekonline.com/subscribe





    I think it is posted quite clear since it even has its own web page.

    even about VAT

    "** VAT will be added on top of the base price upon checkout, percentage varies based on your billing address."

    this is found on the STO main web site under Store / Subscribe.

    Not that hard to find.

    Please refer to fluctuating exchange rate which alters these base prices, at the current exchange rate STO is costing £9.76 before vat, and at roughly £11.47 rounding it up after. Next time actually read what is being said, im aware of vat and how its added.

    kthxbye.

    (Edit: And yes, before anyone mentions it the exchange rate does affect the STO prices as it is converted from dollars to pounds by the banks, not by Cryptic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have a rc helicopter buisness selling large scale models and we constantly get inquiries from people overseas wanting prices etc, then want us to reduce our prices to make up for their VAT fee's, import fees etc etc....

    Im sorry...we have it bad enough here as it is with this obama spending us into oblivion.....but we cant be responsible for other countries rules and regulations governing "you" and take it out of our pockets.....we get this all the time... its like they actually think we charge them that...no, we just charge our price and anything more billed to you over there is your problem... not mine... Dont know why they complain anyways as the exchange rate for the $ vs the Euro is pathetic. Your getting our stuff pretty cheap anyways...


    but in this instance it is odd that cryptic would would charge a vat on one platform and not another...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Wingtip, im British, we pay in GBP not Euro
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Do you think Cryptic will start taking payments in Chickens or other livestock?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    No it's not. The VAT is added to the advertised price of £8.99. It says so on the subscription page ( which is an addition since launch )

    Wow charges me £8.99 a month period ( it's actually less but I buy bulk months so not relevant )

    I can't imagine that all companies doing business ignore the VAT. In one way or another they are charging you for it. If they choose to show it up front or not really isn't the issue. The issue is that your government chooses to require a VAT in the first place. How Cryptic decides to pay for it is up to them but they (Cryptic or Blizzard) are responsible for paying it on your behalf. So again, if it is an issue for you, it is something to take up with your government and not Cryptic (or Blizzard).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Gruug wrote: »
    I can't imagine that all companies doing business ignore the VAT. I one way or another they are charging you for it. If they choose to show it up front or not really isn't the issue. The issue is that your government chooses to require a VAT in the first place. How Cryptic decides to pay for it is up to them but they (Cryptic or Blizzard) are responsible for paying it on your behalf. So again, if it is an issue for you, it is something to take up with your government and not Cryptic (or Blizzard).

    OMG I just figured out
    this thread means that Cryptic is now TAXING players. Not just by the quality of game play, ,
    but they are colllecting actual TAXES from players
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Guys, were going slughtly off topic here. All im asking is for Standardised prices to be looked at to make it more functional, easier and simpler to use - not that all American banks and companies stop adding the vat or ill get angry.

    Please stick the the topic, read the posts and reply on that instead of opening fresh wounds - and do try to be civil.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Gruug wrote: »
    I can't imagine that all companies doing business ignore the VAT. I one way or another they are charging you for it. If they choose to show it up front or not really isn't the issue. The issue is that your government chooses to require a VAT in the first place. How Cryptic decides to pay for it is up to them but they (Cryptic or Blizzard) are responsible for paying it on your behalf. So again, if it is an issue for you, it is something to take up with your government and not Cryptic (or Blizzard).

    you misunderstand. The VAT is added to the price ( Blizzard include it in the price ) but we pay more because Cryptic bills in dollars which means the price fluctualtes. Instead of billing us $15 and converting that to UK £ and billing that amount. They bill us £10.34 and then convert and bill that amount which means we are at the mercy of the exchange rate but always pay more.

    BTW. No company is required to bill VAT. VAT is something a company is billed for. how and if it chooses to pass that on to the customer is entirely up to them. Many products and services are VAT exempt and In the past I've often swallowed the vat on contracts where I could claim it back rather than hurt the customer with an inflated fee.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    wow. I can get two 14", freshly made, American hot pizzas for less than the price of a month's STO sub. I can buy a 15 case of Stella Artois for £2 less than an STO sub. Trouble is I need one of those every 2 days to get me through the tedium of playing STO ;)

    Haha. We were discussing prices in another game, and found out you best can illustrate what money is worth in different countries by converting the specified amount(s) into Pizzas or maybe drinks. Easier to er... digest the information that way. ;)

    ---
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Delynandir wrote:
    Guys, were going slughtly off topic here. All im asking is for Standardised prices to be looked at to make it more functional, easier and simpler to use - not that all American banks and companies stop adding the vat or ill get angry.

    Please stick the the topic, read the posts and reply on that instead of opening fresh wounds - and do try to be civil.

    All just goofy and fun man. Cryptic doesn't really have any relationship with you other than accepting your money and making sure you can log in. They have no billing any more.

    So while I'm not a customer service type person, i can see you you are mad they are taxing you, and that chart of differnt numbers you could pay would confuse me a lot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Tamek wrote: »
    All just goofy and fun man. Cryptic doesn't really have any relationship with you other than accepting your money and making sure you can log in. They have no billing any more.

    So while I'm not a customer service type person, i can see you you are mad they are taxing you, and that chart of differnt numbers you could pay would confuse me a lot.

    I dont mind them taxing me, its just the whole damned exchange thing :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Delynandir wrote:
    I dont mind them taxing me, its just the whole damned exchange thing :p

    lol wait until you see what the game is like

    i wont spoil it for you
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    you misunderstand. The VAT is added to the price ( Blizzard include it in the price ) but we pay more because Cryptic bills in dollars which means the price fluctualtes. Instead of billing us $15 and converting that to UK £ and billing that amount. They bill us £10.34 and then convert and bill that amount which means we are at the mercy of the exchange rate but always pay more.

    Which is the choice of the company. Given that if you bet wrong on the exchange rate it could cripple your operation I have no problem with charging current exchange rates. It is good business sense.
    BTW. No company is required to bill VAT. VAT is something a company is billed for. how and if it chooses to pass that on to the customer is entirely up to them. Many products and services are VAT exempt and In the past I've often swallowed the vat on contracts where I could claim it back rather than hurt the customer with an inflated fee.

    But you still pay it in the end. Regardless if a company shows the charge up front and adds it at the tail end or if the company subtracts it off the front end prior to you getting the bill you are paying for it probably in reduced service.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Gruug wrote: »
    Which is the choice of the company. Given that if you bet wrong on the exchange rate it could cripple your operation I have no problem with charging current exchange rates. It is good business sense.



    But you still pay it in the end. Regardless if a company shows the charge up front and adds it at the tail end or if the company subtracts it off the front end prior to you getting the bill you are paying for it probably in reduced service.

    No you don't. I have 2 VAT registered companies. It does not work the way that you seem to think that it does.
    Also you have just given me a thought. Unless Cryptic have a registered UK trading office and are a VAT registered company then it is in fact illegal to charge VAT. The reason that companies charge it is when they are billed VAT by the government they pass that on to the customer which is a legitimate practice. I fail to see how the UK tax office is billing Cryptic for VAT. It's not possible.

    I shall have a word with my accountant. I feel that this is improper.

    edit:// scratch that. US companies are now required to collect VAT on digital services to the UK so that they don't have a competitive pricing advantage. But only digital and software. What a weird ruling.
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