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STO Forum Banter: Where are the ladies?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Welcome to a special installment of the STO Forum Banter, the monthly STO Forum extravaganza. The STO Forum Banter involves an enthusiastic group of gamers, a common topic within the realm of Star Trek Online, and a week to post articles pertaining to the said topic. The resulting articles can either be short or quite extensive, either funny or dead serious, but are always a great fun to read! Any questions about the STO Forum Banter should be directed to me.


Star Trek Online, as the saying goes, is probably the most hardcore MMORPG currently available to the gaming masses. Hell, let's be serious it's one a the very few true MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER Role-Playing Game out there, and one of a handful who's seen its subscriber numbers go up since its launch. But gentlemen, we have a problem.

I say gentlemen because, though there are few ladies roaming Star Trek, the truth is, there are too few of them. As @Mynxee wrote about in "The Real Sisters of Star Trek", STO is an MMO that is overwhelmingly played by male, and where the female player population hovers at a about 5% of its total subscriber base.

I am one of those who believes that, though the game should not be changed to specifically go after that part of the gaming population, Star Trek Online would greatly benefit if somehow the balance the 2 genders roaming the galaxy would lean towards an equilibrium. So I ask...

What could Cryptic do to attract and maintain a higher percentage of women to the game. Can we the players do our part to share the game we love with our counterparts, with our sisters or daughters, with the Ladies in our lives? What could be added to the game to make it more attractive to them? Should anything be changed? Is the game at fault, or its player base to blame?

I'm not trying to provoke or lay blame on anyone or any group. I'm simply trying to get your neurons and opinions working on finding solutions to this interesting problem we're are faced with. I know you can come up with interesting and innovative ideas.
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    10Forward.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Look at any game that attracts a higher percentage (population wise) than others.

    There is more roleplayable content, more customisation, the games areas are more interactive to allow player generated use of areas, aka, RP stories and pure randomness.

    That's what makes me generate to certain games.

    This place severely lacks it.

    But why do I go back to playing my huntress on LOTRO when I get bored here?

    All the above, and a great RP server.

    However, note: Many of us do not reveal ourselves as females in RL in games....I can't imagine why....:rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Popkornn wrote:
    ...What could Cryptic do to attract and maintain a higher percentage of women to the game...
    I believe that women, sometimes more than men, like choices. While Cryptic certainly offers cosmetic choices, it's been brought to my attention that the most important choice in the game, i.e. if and when to fight, has been taken from us as the gameplay itself constantly revolves around blowing spaceships and vaporizing aliens. Perhaps if Cryptic started by adding more varied (and valid) non-lethal ways to resolve conflict, more women (and men) will feel empowered by this and therefore stick around.

    As it is, the game certainly does not appeal to my wife the same way it does to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    LordOfPit wrote: »
    I believe that women, sometimes more than men, like choices. While Cryptic certainly offers cosmetic choices, it's been brought to my attention that the most important choice in the game, i.e. if and when to fight, has been taken from us as the gameplay itself constantly revolves around blowing spaceships and vaporizing aliens. Perhaps if Cryptic started by adding more varied (and valid) non-lethal ways to resolve conflict, women (and men) will feel more empowered by this and therefore stick around.

    As it is, the game certainly does not appeal to my wife the same way it does to me.
    Tsss... Reversed here.
    The bf wont go anywhere near STO(or any other MMO for that matter) and Chat is the main gamer in this relationship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Chat wrote:
    Tsss... Reversed here.
    The bf wont go anywhere near STO(or any other MMO for that matter) and Chat is the main gamer in this relationship.
    Even so, wouldn't Chat like more options and choices other than merely pew-pew? And in your pew-pew, wouldn't it feel like you're actually in control, if you could capture your enemies (and perhaps interrogate them later) instead of just vaporizing them?

    Oh... and by the way, how's Infinite Space?! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sirius39 wrote:
    But why do I go back to playing my huntress on LOTRO when I get bored here?

    All the above, and a great RP server.

    Was that Landroval? I miss that server. Had much fun there.
    However, note: Many of us do not reveal ourselves as females in RL in games....I can't imagine why....:rolleyes:

    And quoted for truth. I know more than one who maintain this policy. Because being 'outed' as real females tends to make their lives miserable. Its much easier on them when they maintain an veil of Reasonable Doubt. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    LordOfPit wrote: »
    Even so, wouldn't Chat like more options and choices other than merely pew-pew? And in your pew-pew, wouldn't it feel like you're actually in control, if you could capture your enemies (and perhaps interrogate them later) instead of just vaporizing them?

    Oh... and by the way, how's Infinite Space?! :D
    Ehh... Sure why not with more options but there is more to life than just talking to people. ;)
    (should be noted that Chat finds killing on average 2-3000 enemies to be relaxing. especially if there is giant mechs involved)

    Chat hates you so much right now...
    But it's good! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Popkornn wrote:

    Star Trek Online, as the saying goes, is probably the most hardcore MMORPG currently available to the gaming masses. Hell, let's be serious it's one a the very few true MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER Role-Playing Game out there, and one of a handful who's seen its subscriber numbers go up since its launch. But gentlemen, we have a problem.

    I say gentlemen because, though there are few ladies roaming Star Trek, the truth is, there are too few of them. As @Mynxee wrote about in "The Real Sisters of Star Trek", STO is an MMO that is overwhelmingly played by male, and where the female player population hovers at a about 5% of its total subscriber base.

    out of interest how is this the most hardcore. in what regards?

    where is that 5% coming from. how would anybody know what gender people are
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'm here but I have to agree w/ LordofPit really. I would love this game a lot more if it had the "real" Trek stuff - diplomatic missions and Prime Directive pickles. I prefer games that make me think a little.

    I like being surprised - so give me missions that throw me for a loop. Give me the ability to stop war crimes before becoming an unwilling participant in one.

    But this game is still fun for me and I will admit to doing something "very" girly - I have a boat-load of character slots because I do like the creation aspect of it - as well as just trying out how the game plays differently from each of those builds...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    LordOfPit wrote: »
    Perhaps if Cryptic started by adding more varied (and valid) non-lethal ways to resolve conflict, more women (and men) will feel empowered by this and therefore stick around.

    The Federation is certainly far too bloodthirsty at this point. Adding diplomatic missions won't change the existing missions. They need to allow enemies in existing Federation missions to have a chance to surrender, retreat, or negotiate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Chat wrote: »
    Ehh... Sure why not with more options but there is more to life than just talking to people. ;)
    (should be noted that Chat finds killing on average 2-3000 enemies to be relaxing. especially if there is giant mechs involved)
    I agree, especially about the Mechs. :D However, I've often found that more than I love to shoot my enemies one enemy at a time, I love tricking them into standing in one long line and taking them out with one well-placed shot.

    Combat strategies aside though, I would love Star Trek Online a whole lot more if it actually did have more to it than combat and shallow interactions with objects/NPC's.
    Chat wrote: »
    Chat hates you so much right now...
    But it's good! :D
    I'm glad to hear you enjoy it!! :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    where is that 5% coming from. how would anybody know what gender people are

    By their "ample nacelles," if you pardon the engineering parlance. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    TerilynnS wrote: »
    ...I prefer games that make me think a little...
    In other words, let us feel more like Captains who have a say in what's going on, just like the TV shows portrayed Star fleet Captains?
    TerilynnS wrote: »
    ...Give me the ability to stop war crimes before becoming an unwilling participant in one.
    In short, empower me with awesome script-writing?
    TerilynnS wrote: »
    ...I have a boat-load of character slots because I do like the creation aspect of it - as well as just trying out how the game plays differently from each of those builds...
    And if I may be allowed to sum up everything you've said, the more imagination is involved in the game-world and gameplay experience, the better, and right now... the game is not as imaginative as it could be. Am I close?
    Mirai wrote: »
    They need to allow enemies in existing Federation missions to have a chance to surrender, retreat, or negotiate.
    Well, I think this would be a bit too complex to do right now, but there are other options, like leaving the choice whether to terminate an enemy (vaporize/kill) or capture them relatively unharmed (beam them out when they're "exposed").
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    From what I've noticed in other MMO's, women care more about socializing, whereas guys care more about being "uber" (getting epic gear, being top 10 in PvP, etc.) Sure, I've met some females who are all into stats, and some guys who only care about socializing, but I think the above sentence holds true to most guys and girls.

    I feel like STO does very little to encourage socializing, if not discourage socializing: the severe instancing, the lack of a fluid economy, and the lack of need to group with anyone for anything (except for the STF's, which very few people do anyways.)

    Pretty much the only things even close to socializing that I've seen are in Earth Spacedock, where people ask how to respec, or flame each other over political issues; and in the Alpha Centauri sector block, where people rage over the Crystalline Entity.

    I think if Cryptic changed or added things in STO to encourage socializing, we'd not only see more female players, but male players as well.

    The last thing, which again I'm not completely sure about, is that less females are fans of science fiction compared to fantasy, and this is something Cryptic just can't control.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    personae wrote:
    Was that Landroval? I miss that server. Had much fun there.



    And quoted for truth. I know more than one who maintain this policy. Because being 'outed' as real females tends to make their lives miserable. Its much easier on them when they maintain an veil of Reasonable Doubt. ;)

    Yes Landroval.

    But I'm severely limited on my time there, since like with most MMO's including this one, I usually hijack my boyfriends accounts when he tests a game and drops it. He dropped STO, I took it up.

    He hasn't dropped LOTRO, so....you can say that's probably the reason I'm still here hoping for rp/social content.

    As for usually hiding my gender in game, well, one answer: The sexual deviants of Jedi Academy former RPG server, <name unspoken>
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    personae wrote:
    By their "ample nacelles," if you pardon the engineering parlance. ;)

    Do you also think women with big TRIBBLE are really men in real life? Its only men that get breast implants in real life afterall, right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    Do you also think women with big TRIBBLE are really men in real life? Its only men that get breast implants in real life afterall, right?

    Heh. I'm guessing you didn't realize I was making a joke off one of Scotty's lines in the latest film. Not an actual commentary regarding breast size. I apologize for any confusion there. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Good grief. I almost never make any effort to "play up" my gender in online games because if it ever comes up, the inevitable "are you really a girl, if so prove it" stuff starts. So, I imagine there might be more than a few women who don't want to be bothered/harassed as well.

    There might be more females playing this game than you think ... or, at least there certainly were lots more when the game first released. In any event, I don't make a big deal out of it. My in-game avatars speak for themselves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    TrickSh0t wrote:
    ..."are you really a girl, if so prove it" stuff starts.
    Oh, it's very easy to prove you're a girl in MMO's, just ignore the proof-seeker and if they won't leave it at that, you're undoubtedly a girl! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    LordOfPit wrote: »
    Oh, it's very easy to prove you're a girl in MMO's, just ignore the proof-seeker and if they won't leave it at that, you're undoubtedly a girl! :D

    LOL! Yes, that's usually what happens. Or if they are really persistent and I'm short on patience I say, "Yes. I'm a guy."

    I don't get why its so important? Do they plan on falling in love or something? :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    TrickSh0t wrote:
    LOL! Yes, that's usually what happens. Or if they are really persistent and I'm short on patience I say, "Yes. I'm a guy."

    I don't get why its so important? Do they plan on falling in love or something? :)

    My favorite quote is "It really doesn't matter what gender I am. You're never going to see me naked." :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Small disclaimer for (very brief) explanation of terminology. According to modern gender politics, there is a difference between 'sex' and 'gender': 'sex' refers to the biological difference, whereas 'gender' is a psychological identity construct.

    ===
    Popkornn wrote:
    As @Mynxee wrote about in "The Real Sisters of Star Trek", STO is an MMO that is overwhelmingly played by male, and where the female player population hovers at a about 5% of its total subscriber base.
    Where did this statistic come from? I question its accuracy and validity.
    Popkornn wrote:
    I am one of those who believes that, though the game should not be changed to specifically go after that part of the gaming population, Star Trek Online would greatly benefit if somehow the balance the 2 genders roaming the galaxy would lean towards an equilibrium.
    Why? Benefit how?

    More basic to a marketing argument, what is the current target demographic(s)? Why should this be changed specifically to balance sex/gender population (assuming there is currently an imbalance)?

    Unless there is an inherent sex-bias or gender-bias in STO or Star Trek, I don't see a problem, nor any need to change marketing. And, to be honest, since the later seasons of TNG, I have not seen sex-bias or gender-bias in Star Trek. (Please feel free to correct me if you see something I overlooked.)

    Anything else seems irrelevant to me. 'We need more girl gamers', 'this game needs more women', and similar arguments just seem like they come from people who don't know enough women in their own lives. Or are not comfortable with their own sexuality to play a game where they either do not know the real sex/gender of their fellow players, or they assume their fellow players are male.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Small disclaimer for (very brief) explanation of terminology. According to modern gender politics, there is a difference between 'sex' and 'gender': 'sex' refers to the biological difference, whereas 'gender' is a psychological identity construct.

    I bet you're a real riot at social events, Matt. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    TrickSh0t wrote:
    I bet you're a real riot at social events, Matt. :p
    They call me Bojangles at the office.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'll say it's partly the franchise, not the lethality. Star Wars is more kill happy that standard Trek and yet I know plenty of girls who would (and do) dress up as Star Wars characters and see that as fairly healthy and normal. Firefly is even more brutal and grim than either SW or ST and seems hugely popular with women.

    I think Star Trek is visually more clautrophobic and repetitive on TV and in the films and the game is mirroring or not quite living up to that in many places.

    If this were closer to Star Trek: The Animated Series and the Trek films and maybe not quite so ship centric, I think it would have a broader appeal.

    Exotic aliens, exotic, moody locales. Less generic bases and bulkheads. Basically, kick the art department into overdrive.

    I think Champions was a step up from City of Heroes in this regard and that Star Trek seems to have taken a step back. There's only so much diversity you can have in space and they already bend it with heavy nebula and asteroid usage.

    Ground is the name of the game. More diverse weather, plant life, cities, temples, etc. Lush colors. Sunsets.

    Classical romance basically. Star Wars and Warcraft are drowning in that. Trek can be a bit sterile. I think this is one case where the game needs to be freed up from the IP somewhat because it can do more on a budget than a TV show can.

    Give me fifty foot tall aliens and winged aliens and snake people. Let me play Predator in a jungle with a Hirogen. Work in alien cities with some interiors and balconies and streets, not just Western-style sound stage exteriors.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    personae wrote:
    Heh. I'm guessing you didn't realize I was making a joke off one of Scotty's lines in the latest film. Not an actual commentary regarding breast size. I apologize for any confusion there. :)

    It doesn't really matter, someone is thinking it and will say it, that avatar boob size implies something. I am simply pointing out that real life doesn't support that idea at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    It doesn't really matter, someone is thinking it and will say it, that avatar boob size implies something. I am simply pointing out that real life doesn't support that idea at all.
    But who is main force behind getting them?


    Exactly. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'll say it's partly the franchise, not the lethality.

    I'm gonna go on a tangent based on the germ of your idea.

    As I look back at the representation of "front line" women in Star Trek it has a spotty history.

    When Star Trek Voyager was being prepped, I was really excited. Finally a female lead! And then Janeway turned out to be a waffling, lip quivering psychopath.

    Then Seven of Nine was introduced to the show--a strong female character ... in a cat suit with huge TRIBBLE.

    Um, well ... we had B'Elana too ... but she seemed to be dealing with her Klingon side, that mostly looked like she was PMSing all the time. Poor Tom Paris.

    Let's see ... Deanna Troi, emotional and whimpering for 5 seasons. Finally got some backbone and made me like her.

    T'Pol from Enterprise ... another irrational (AND A VULCAN NO LESS!) female in tight clothing. Thanks guys.

    Now, my two favorites are Kira Nerys and Jadzia Dax ... two unapologetically strong characters without all the baggage writers usually like to heap on female characters.

    There just hasn't been much for women to grasp on to based on the representations. Well, I guess, I should speak for myself. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    TrickSh0t wrote:
    There just hasn't been much for women to grasp on to based on the representations. Well, I guess, I should speak for myself. :p
    Well, now you get to be your own! (paraphrased from the game box) ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    personae wrote:
    By their "ample nacelles," if you pardon the engineering parlance. ;)

    LOL! Well done. :cool:

    How can STO get more female customers? Uh... make a better product??? :rolleyes:
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