I just finished watching the video called Expanding universe pt 3 and i was wondering if you dev guys are going to release the refit ships because i saw the voyager flying around attacking things in the next STF concerning the undine. PLEASE SAY ITS SO!!!!!
Being able to refit lower tier ships for use at Rear Admiral is probably one of the most requested features on the forum, yet as far as I am aware not a single thread has had a developer response.. either that means they really don't want to do it, or it's already in the works and they want to suprise us.. hopefully the latter.
Being able to refit lower tier ships for use at Rear Admiral is probably one of the most requested features on the forum, yet as far as I am aware not a single thread has had a developer response.. either that means they really don't want to do it, or it's already in the works and they want to suprise us.. hopefully the latter.
Actually I chatted with a Dev in IRC lest week. The problem isn't that they don't want to do it.. they know the community wants it.. the problem is getting it approved by the powers that be (License holders.. Atari, CBS, etc.).
The feeling I got from the responses by the devs made me feel "Hey, if it was up to us, it would already be in game.. however, we need to get approval before we can do this."
Now like I stated, that was the feeling I got, however I also got the feeling it wasn't on the list of Priorities.
I've thought of the subject myself, ranging from the serious "man I want an Intrepid or Defiant at RA" to the more comical "A Miranda at RA would be the funniest thing ever to watch" Wouldn't mind a Constitution now either seeing as how they got a bridge for it similar to the new movie... just wish they had the hull to match, man that new one was just awesome.
But I digress, and as much as I hate to say this I think they just had an Intrepid in there for effect or to mix it up, not really a huge variety of just RA ships and besides when I think Borg and Undine I naturally think Voyager, likelihood is they made the obvious connection and referenced the series, much like the one video Past part 1 when they showed a brief scene with two Mogai (Valdor dammit!) and the Scimitar chasing a Sovereign while mentioning Nemesis, but yet its obviously a different engagement.
My point: lets not jump to conclusions over something which is fairly abstract but then again maintaining a level of hope never really hurt, unless it was too much hope.... okay lets remain "Cautiously Optimistic" that works.
Cautiously optimistic sounds cool....but I'm all for a massive outbreak of nerd rage if they don't do it.
Nobody picked up this game so they could fly a Dervish or a DSSV endgame. When I think of playing space PVP, the only ship I think of using is the Defiant.
I'm sick of the argument of "oh it's been 30 years, there are new ships now". Complete TRIBBLE. Not to mention, this is a game, and they managed to get the MIranda and the TOS Constitution in for no other reason than to please the fans.
Other arguments may include "It just won't feel authentic to the license to have older, or smaller ships competing with the massive ships we have at endgame." Need I remind you that Starfleet Officers running around in body armor looking like Halo Marines wielding disruptor gatling guns doesn't suit the license too well either, but we seem to have plenty of room for that.
Actually I chatted with a Dev in IRC lest week. The problem isn't that they don't want to do it.. they know the community wants it.. the problem is getting it approved by the powers that be (License holders.. Atari, CBS, etc.).
The feeling I got from the responses by the devs made me feel "Hey, if it was up to us, it would already be in game.. however, we need to get approval before we can do this."
Now like I stated, that was the feeling I got, however I also got the feeling it wasn't on the list of Priorities.
I gotta call BS on that... why would they need approval for it? they already have approval to use the ships in the game, what difference would it make to CBS whether people can upgrade them to be on par with the tier5 ships or not? The statistics of the ships and such is surely in the domain of the game developer, Cryptic, not something CBS needs to approve? surely they don't have that much hold on Cryptic... I can see it now.. some CBS bean-counter going over the weapons in the Valour store checking that they all do the right damage before approving it... just sounds ridiculous to me.
I mean, you can already use them at RA5, their stats just aren't upgraded to match other RA5 ships... why would something like that need CBS approval? I seriously call BS on that.
Edit: Now, a better theory would be, that they don't want them upgraded to RA5 because then who would buy the better looking RA5 C-store ships when they can fly around in a Galaxy or Intrepid or Defiant?
Now, a better theory would be, that they don't want them upgraded to RA5 because then who would buy the better looking RA5 C-store ships when they can fly around in a Galaxy or Intrepid or Defiant?
Definitely with you there, Trek ships outclass Cryptic ships in every way.
The response I got from a PM I sent back in open beta was more along the lines of they thought it was a cool idea, and the only things preventing it being implemented is finding a really simple way to implement it, and of course having the time to do it.
I still say the easiest way to make this happen is to have every lower tier basic game ship unlock as a customization option as you rank up.
* Lt CDRs would be able to only use the tier 2 ships, but once they rank up to CDR they would have both tier 3 and tier 2 ships available.
* The UI for the ship customization window would add a drop down menu to select the tier ships you wish to use. If you wanted to choose tier 2 cruisers as a CDR, then you would be able to select customization ships only from those three ships, not a mix and match of tier 2 and 3.
* Any of the classic ships that are in the works would be obtained in the C-Store, or a quest series. As most of those classic ships were built to be modular, and have mission packages installed quickly, any of those ships SHOULD be available at any tier and any category. Some exclusions would be the Oberth (obviously a science ship), Excelsior (obviously a cruiser). These classic ships should also not have any customization options aside from material, colors, windows, pattern (omega, Orion etc.,).
* Any new Cryptic hsips would be available in C-Store and would be available only at the rank/category Cryptic dictates.
By making the existing non-C-Store ships available as customization options at any rank they shuold be able to bypass CBS approval for the most part, as they are already in the game.
I'm sure this could be done in 10 minutes as an unlockable costume option in the ship customisation screen just like the new costumes you can buy for them in the cstore.
Heck I'm sure if they added them on the cstore a LOT of people would pay to be able to use them at tier 5.
I'm sure this could be done in 10 minutes as an unlockable costume option in the ship customisation screen just like the new costumes you can buy for them in the cstore.
Heck I'm sure if they added them on the cstore a LOT of people would pay to be able to use them at tier 5.
I wouldn't want such a rush-job like that though, OR a c-store option.. I want a proper "refit" system, that would cost energy credits/merits, lord knows we need SOMETHING to spend these on...
I came up with this idea as a way to refit ships. Tell me what you guys think.
I would prefer a system that would allow all ships to be equally matched endgame.
The current tier system would remain the same EXCEPT:
When you get your 1 free ship token with your promotion you can choose to spend that token on buying a new ship OR you can use it to upgrade one of your current ships.
When you rank up and buy a ship, any ship you buy will be priced and scaled in power(BO slots, console slots, weapon slots, etc) to match the new ships that are available for your rank. For instance, buying an Intrepid Class ship will cost more when your are an Admiral than it would have when you were Captain AND it would be on par with any other T5 science ship.
Upgrading existing ships: If you already have a ship that corresponds to a lower tier than your rank and you did not choose to spend your free upgrade token on it, it will cost you the price of a ship of your current tier to upgrade it. (In order to keep track of this, when you pull up your "Character" window and view your ship, instead of just saying "Science Vessel," it might say "Tier 3 Science Vessel" or "Science Vessell(T3)" or something to that effect. That way, you know it's a Nova Class (or one of the variants) but you also know that either you purchased it at the rank of Commander (T3) or at some point upgraded it to T3.
Now, I'm not saying that all ships will be the same endgame, obviously some would have more hull strength or shield strength than others, but basically, all cruisers at T5 should have the same amount of weapon slots as any other cruiser and the same goes for escorts and science ships.
Light cruisers of course, pose a dillemma, since they don't fall into anyt of the 3 categories (cruiser, sci or escort). This can be solved by:
A) Only allowing refits on T2 ships and up Allowing slightly different refits to light cruisers
Since light cruisers as of now can pack any weapons that an escort can, they would either need to lose that funcionality or get nerfed or upgraded in other aspects. If you let them keep dual cannons but don't give them the benefits of sci ships or cruisers, they basically become escorts. Personally, I'm fine with them losing the dual cannon functionality, at least once refitted beyond Tier 1, or only allowing them to equip Mk I-II dual cannons, regardless of tier.
Or you could just let Light Cruisers become their own class, perhaps able to use Mk I-II dual cannons but never having anything higher than a Lt. Tactical slot will prevent them from ever reaching the damage output of an escort. Basically, they should be like the midpoint between cruisers and escorts; slightly better damage than a cruiser but not as good as an escort, slightly better defense than an escort but not as good as a cruiser, slightly better maneverability than a cruiser but not as good as an escort.
Maybe, just maybe Light Cruisers could be like the BoP of the Fed side and have universal bridge officer slots but nothing higher than Lt. Cmdr or just not as many BO slots as a more specialized ship. Basically, with this line of reasoning, Light Cruisers, would be Jacks of All Trades but Masters of None. Ideal for players who want to generalize rather than specialize. They'll never reach the specialized potential of the other classes but they would be a handy little ship that can hold its own. They would be pretty much average in all respects.
Of course, this would involve a lot of balancing if they didn't go with the copout option of using lower tier ships as skins. You can't just let players pick any particular T5 ship's stats and match it to any lower tier skin because it would pose a new dillemma:
It would devalue the existing specializations of the existing T5 ships. All T5 skins would then become the only skins that are limited to a certain set of stats and all lower tier ships would be free to be matched to any stats. The former best ships in the game would now be the red-headed stepchildren of the game.
Frankly, I wouldn't mind, if, as an incentive for players to continue to use existing T5 ships if they didn't allow the specializations of T5 ships on lower tier ships. So, for instance, all upgraded ships would still get their increased rank in BO slots that correspond to their ship class. So, for instance, you upgrade a Defiant class ship to T5: You now have Cmdr and Lt Cmdr Tactical slots opposed to the Lt. Cmdr and Lt slots you had at T4. You still have a Lt Sci and a Lt Eng slot. You do not, however, have an Ensign Sci or Eng slot that you would have if you had an Advanced or Fleet Escort respectively. The same with the consoles: You would still get your 4 tactical consoles but you would only get 2 eng and 2 sci rather than the bonus consoles you currently get from T5 ships.
But that wouldn't be equal.
There are a number a ways this can be handled:
A) Make ALL skins of a certain type (cruiser, sci, escort) interchangeable with ANY specialization (fleet escort, advanced escort, assault cruiser, star cruiser) That way, you wouldn't have to come up with new specializations for every single ship, and people who want to use a Prometheus skin but have Fleet escort stats won't feel slighted because all of a sudden the Defiant captain gets to have their cake and eat it too.
Make every upgraded ship fall into one of the existing specialized categories (ie, the Akira becomes an advanced escort, the Defiant becomes a fleet escort, the Galaxy becomes a Star Cruiser, the Intrepid becomes a DSSV) This way, no new specializations have to be invented and nobody gets special treatment, therefore, no one who selected a T5 ships feels slighted.
C) This way requires the most work but is the most comprehensive way: ALL ship classes get their own stats: so the Defiant may lack the extra eng slots or sci slots of the existing T5 escorts but it makes up for it with greater maneuverability, or fire power, or say, an ability-for-ability tradeoff by getting a cloaking device (just a regular cloak, nothing fancy like battle cloak) of course that may not be balanced and everyone would ditch their existing T5 escorts for a Defiant.
I digress.
Balancing all ships for endgame is the ultimate goal, the secondary goal would be to make them all unique. Basically, to balance all ships for endgame would require that they all bring something unique to the table, and that every ship is useful and no ship is useless.
I would suggest simply having a full on, separate ship, like the Connie, that uses a lower tier's graphics but has the state of its upper tier counterpart.
That said, there's some indication that RA 6-10 will get a new tier of ships so part of the rationale for the delay might be that refits will be tailored around the next tier up.
Comments
Actually I chatted with a Dev in IRC lest week. The problem isn't that they don't want to do it.. they know the community wants it.. the problem is getting it approved by the powers that be (License holders.. Atari, CBS, etc.).
The feeling I got from the responses by the devs made me feel "Hey, if it was up to us, it would already be in game.. however, we need to get approval before we can do this."
Now like I stated, that was the feeling I got, however I also got the feeling it wasn't on the list of Priorities.
But I digress, and as much as I hate to say this I think they just had an Intrepid in there for effect or to mix it up, not really a huge variety of just RA ships and besides when I think Borg and Undine I naturally think Voyager, likelihood is they made the obvious connection and referenced the series, much like the one video Past part 1 when they showed a brief scene with two Mogai (Valdor dammit!) and the Scimitar chasing a Sovereign while mentioning Nemesis, but yet its obviously a different engagement.
My point: lets not jump to conclusions over something which is fairly abstract but then again maintaining a level of hope never really hurt, unless it was too much hope.... okay lets remain "Cautiously Optimistic" that works.
Nobody picked up this game so they could fly a Dervish or a DSSV endgame. When I think of playing space PVP, the only ship I think of using is the Defiant.
I'm sick of the argument of "oh it's been 30 years, there are new ships now". Complete TRIBBLE. Not to mention, this is a game, and they managed to get the MIranda and the TOS Constitution in for no other reason than to please the fans.
Other arguments may include "It just won't feel authentic to the license to have older, or smaller ships competing with the massive ships we have at endgame." Need I remind you that Starfleet Officers running around in body armor looking like Halo Marines wielding disruptor gatling guns doesn't suit the license too well either, but we seem to have plenty of room for that.
I gotta call BS on that... why would they need approval for it? they already have approval to use the ships in the game, what difference would it make to CBS whether people can upgrade them to be on par with the tier5 ships or not? The statistics of the ships and such is surely in the domain of the game developer, Cryptic, not something CBS needs to approve? surely they don't have that much hold on Cryptic... I can see it now.. some CBS bean-counter going over the weapons in the Valour store checking that they all do the right damage before approving it... just sounds ridiculous to me.
I mean, you can already use them at RA5, their stats just aren't upgraded to match other RA5 ships... why would something like that need CBS approval? I seriously call BS on that.
Edit: Now, a better theory would be, that they don't want them upgraded to RA5 because then who would buy the better looking RA5 C-store ships when they can fly around in a Galaxy or Intrepid or Defiant?
Definitely with you there, Trek ships outclass Cryptic ships in every way.
I still say the easiest way to make this happen is to have every lower tier basic game ship unlock as a customization option as you rank up.
* Lt CDRs would be able to only use the tier 2 ships, but once they rank up to CDR they would have both tier 3 and tier 2 ships available.
* The UI for the ship customization window would add a drop down menu to select the tier ships you wish to use. If you wanted to choose tier 2 cruisers as a CDR, then you would be able to select customization ships only from those three ships, not a mix and match of tier 2 and 3.
* Any of the classic ships that are in the works would be obtained in the C-Store, or a quest series. As most of those classic ships were built to be modular, and have mission packages installed quickly, any of those ships SHOULD be available at any tier and any category. Some exclusions would be the Oberth (obviously a science ship), Excelsior (obviously a cruiser). These classic ships should also not have any customization options aside from material, colors, windows, pattern (omega, Orion etc.,).
* Any new Cryptic hsips would be available in C-Store and would be available only at the rank/category Cryptic dictates.
By making the existing non-C-Store ships available as customization options at any rank they shuold be able to bypass CBS approval for the most part, as they are already in the game.
Constellation should be available as a T2 and up Cruiser
Excelsior: T3 and up Cruiser
Ambassador and Nebula: T4 and up Cruiser
Oberth: T2 and up Science Ship
I guess Steamrunner and Norway could be added for escorts, not sure how different they are from Cryptic's variants. Probably T2 or T3 and up.
Heck I'm sure if they added them on the cstore a LOT of people would pay to be able to use them at tier 5.
I wouldn't want such a rush-job like that though, OR a c-store option.. I want a proper "refit" system, that would cost energy credits/merits, lord knows we need SOMETHING to spend these on...
I would prefer a system that would allow all ships to be equally matched endgame.
The current tier system would remain the same EXCEPT:
When you get your 1 free ship token with your promotion you can choose to spend that token on buying a new ship OR you can use it to upgrade one of your current ships.
When you rank up and buy a ship, any ship you buy will be priced and scaled in power(BO slots, console slots, weapon slots, etc) to match the new ships that are available for your rank. For instance, buying an Intrepid Class ship will cost more when your are an Admiral than it would have when you were Captain AND it would be on par with any other T5 science ship.
Upgrading existing ships: If you already have a ship that corresponds to a lower tier than your rank and you did not choose to spend your free upgrade token on it, it will cost you the price of a ship of your current tier to upgrade it. (In order to keep track of this, when you pull up your "Character" window and view your ship, instead of just saying "Science Vessel," it might say "Tier 3 Science Vessel" or "Science Vessell(T3)" or something to that effect. That way, you know it's a Nova Class (or one of the variants) but you also know that either you purchased it at the rank of Commander (T3) or at some point upgraded it to T3.
Now, I'm not saying that all ships will be the same endgame, obviously some would have more hull strength or shield strength than others, but basically, all cruisers at T5 should have the same amount of weapon slots as any other cruiser and the same goes for escorts and science ships.
Light cruisers of course, pose a dillemma, since they don't fall into anyt of the 3 categories (cruiser, sci or escort). This can be solved by:
A) Only allowing refits on T2 ships and up
Since light cruisers as of now can pack any weapons that an escort can, they would either need to lose that funcionality or get nerfed or upgraded in other aspects. If you let them keep dual cannons but don't give them the benefits of sci ships or cruisers, they basically become escorts. Personally, I'm fine with them losing the dual cannon functionality, at least once refitted beyond Tier 1, or only allowing them to equip Mk I-II dual cannons, regardless of tier.
Or you could just let Light Cruisers become their own class, perhaps able to use Mk I-II dual cannons but never having anything higher than a Lt. Tactical slot will prevent them from ever reaching the damage output of an escort. Basically, they should be like the midpoint between cruisers and escorts; slightly better damage than a cruiser but not as good as an escort, slightly better defense than an escort but not as good as a cruiser, slightly better maneverability than a cruiser but not as good as an escort.
Maybe, just maybe Light Cruisers could be like the BoP of the Fed side and have universal bridge officer slots but nothing higher than Lt. Cmdr or just not as many BO slots as a more specialized ship. Basically, with this line of reasoning, Light Cruisers, would be Jacks of All Trades but Masters of None. Ideal for players who want to generalize rather than specialize. They'll never reach the specialized potential of the other classes but they would be a handy little ship that can hold its own. They would be pretty much average in all respects.
Of course, this would involve a lot of balancing if they didn't go with the copout option of using lower tier ships as skins. You can't just let players pick any particular T5 ship's stats and match it to any lower tier skin because it would pose a new dillemma:
It would devalue the existing specializations of the existing T5 ships. All T5 skins would then become the only skins that are limited to a certain set of stats and all lower tier ships would be free to be matched to any stats. The former best ships in the game would now be the red-headed stepchildren of the game.
Frankly, I wouldn't mind, if, as an incentive for players to continue to use existing T5 ships if they didn't allow the specializations of T5 ships on lower tier ships. So, for instance, all upgraded ships would still get their increased rank in BO slots that correspond to their ship class. So, for instance, you upgrade a Defiant class ship to T5: You now have Cmdr and Lt Cmdr Tactical slots opposed to the Lt. Cmdr and Lt slots you had at T4. You still have a Lt Sci and a Lt Eng slot. You do not, however, have an Ensign Sci or Eng slot that you would have if you had an Advanced or Fleet Escort respectively. The same with the consoles: You would still get your 4 tactical consoles but you would only get 2 eng and 2 sci rather than the bonus consoles you currently get from T5 ships.
But that wouldn't be equal.
There are a number a ways this can be handled:
A) Make ALL skins of a certain type (cruiser, sci, escort) interchangeable with ANY specialization (fleet escort, advanced escort, assault cruiser, star cruiser) That way, you wouldn't have to come up with new specializations for every single ship, and people who want to use a Prometheus skin but have Fleet escort stats won't feel slighted because all of a sudden the Defiant captain gets to have their cake and eat it too.
C) This way requires the most work but is the most comprehensive way: ALL ship classes get their own stats: so the Defiant may lack the extra eng slots or sci slots of the existing T5 escorts but it makes up for it with greater maneuverability, or fire power, or say, an ability-for-ability tradeoff by getting a cloaking device (just a regular cloak, nothing fancy like battle cloak) of course that may not be balanced and everyone would ditch their existing T5 escorts for a Defiant.
I digress.
Balancing all ships for endgame is the ultimate goal, the secondary goal would be to make them all unique. Basically, to balance all ships for endgame would require that they all bring something unique to the table, and that every ship is useful and no ship is useless.
That said, there's some indication that RA 6-10 will get a new tier of ships so part of the rationale for the delay might be that refits will be tailored around the next tier up.