It was mentioned many times in the past that space battle will be lengthy, have more strategy and what I see now is not so much as a failure but a serious problem of game balance. I will be going into many different view points so try to keep up. Elites, sorry for the below but the time has come to expose to the public much.
Coming into PVP today at RA levels is rather annoying for the large majority of the STO community once fully geared and speced. Many have spoken out and to that end I will relay my findings as I have in the past.
We have escorts in the game that have learned the tides of the correct weapon of choice, ability, spec, consoles, ship and class. Going up against almost anyone they can swiftly destroy a target as if it was never there in the first place. It has come to the point where we already know them by name and many steer clear. We have science vessels loading up on Photonics and are Sub beaming gamers into inactivity during battle of almost close to 30 seconds of not being able to do anything but die. The gamers are not at fault what so ever. What these gamers are doing is nothing more then any other gamer figuring out the perfect everything and using it to their own advantages, sometimes also using exploits and unbalanced abilities, true however that isn't their fault either. Cryptic however, you have promised us a much different picture. Going 1v1 against these players is almost always a battle in of itself. Tearing through shields and hulls like they never existed destroying target in less then 5 seconds? Seriously? Is that what you meant by extended battle? It wouldn't matter if they had the best purples in the game, they stand no chance against these select few. Target sub system ability is a quite secret many are trying to keep a lid on. Many don't give out the details to why this is so effective so allow me to blow the whistle because this needs a massive nerf as well.
A) Specing your toons points in this case specifically 9 across the boards for anything o do with weapons would be your first step. Purchasing for example Target Shields II would be our second step
C) Equipping one phaser beam on your escort would be your third step.
Now full power to weapons approach your target, turn to get your phaser beam arc into firing mode and hit the target shields II. Shields are down, turn into your target and blast away. Rinse and repeat. Sorry for all the non whistle blowers.
CRYPTIC, Balancing and diminishing returns within a MMORPG is one of the most crucial mechanics that needs to be tested from all angles of game play and I see this is not happening quick enough or correctly in vital areas. Battles should be lengthy. Ganging up on 5 gamers on 1 needs to be dealt with or whats the point.
I am one of those few who are on tribble as well. I read notes from devs on engineering reports and I do my own testing within my fleet in game and I am almost never surprised. Recently we got a patch that made it possible for gamers to stack the RSP ability and use the global cool down timer to their advantage. Whether this was done on purpose or not is not the issue. Once it hit the patch and the game commenced, slowly everyone began learning and adapting. Using multiple RSP's during battle is not an answer to balance. Those of you who don't know, even RSP can be outwitted with focus firing mass DPS. There are many other things in game that need balancing but I will try to stay on topic and speak about Space battle in particular.
What I don't understand is why is balancing such a big problem. True, If I sat down and wrote down every ability, class, ship and spec, yes it would take me some time to consider the variables to figure this all out but I am not developing this MMO, I am playing it. Unbalancing will create a slow death for this MMO, one I see and am enduring now as we move into the future but don't wish to see occurring. Instead of useful patches that add to the games brilliance, Cryptic is focusing on many things at once, like for example, the C-store and getting more of your money rather then doing the most important fundamental functions when deploying and developing an MMORPG.
*Tested, fully functional updates with as close to zero faults including detailed patch notes always.
*Game balance review cross the board of affected areas
*Stability and maintenance.
*Diminishing Returns overhaul on all abilities. (not from one attacker but from all)
We all know that the best part of this MMO takes place in space. Those that have the luxury as I do to play this game on full detail and still have a high FPS, are wowed by the reality of how things look in and the sheer beauty of space designed by Cryptic and Genesis.
Cryptic,what we need now is to better correct the MMO. Stay true to the IP is what we all want to see. All of us see many things that are not true to the IP or we see things that are broken, or not correctly done. It has come to the point where we brush it off and say things like, that's cryptic. Many reference past failings of other MMO's you built and their mechanics and relate it to this one. Honestly I am tiered of listening to it but most of all quietly enduring it. I want to see some excellence in consistency with every patch from Cryptics end. Other games are coming soon. Personally I would hate to see this MMO die a slow death and would appreciate it if you all had a meeting or something and got down to the nity gritty. Keep in mind that many people pay monthly for this. There are many who also pay for ventrilo servers and forums for their fleet trying to best manage many people with the little tools they get from cryptic.
This will be the last article I will post on these forums but I will leave you with this. Please get it together or you will shortly find many fleets quitting the game on mass. We want a solid MMO focusing on Core game play first everything else should be secondary. Fix, Fix, Fix... We beg you.
This wall of text was disorganized and hard to read in General where you originally posted it. If you're going to go through the trouble of posting twice (which is against forum rules anyway, isn't it?), could you maybe do some editing so it actually has a main point and an argument and stuff?
Also, sorry, but Target Subsystem stacking is hardly a secret that anybody has bothered to keep. Your post doesn't even describe how to do it right.
I don't know if posting twice the same thing in a different location is against forum rules. I read the rules in every thread and didnt notice that. Like many who dont bother I am not one of those people. What I wrote covers a few areas of the game and I wanted those who seek feedback specifically and or combat specifically to find it.
As for your statements about my post I am sorry I didn't conform to your specific needs. I will curtail things next time just for you.
Interesting thread Pr0x. It is a little troubling that there seems to be so much room for what I'd call "cheese tactics" in PvP.
Please don't get me wrong - I think it's a good thing when you have an ability system that encourages players to get creative with their strategies. But I also think that someone shouldn't be able to take two or three abilities and use them in tandem to effectively create an "I win" button in 1v1 fights.
There's two downsides to that - first is that it will skew the battlefield severely. Ideally, all ship types and character types should be viable in PvP - and balance should be at least a form of rock/paper/scissors, if not even more nuanced than that. If that's not true, and you get everyone flying around as tactical officers in escorts (or science officers in escorts) for PvP matches it takes something away from that side of the game.
The second downside is that tactics such as the ones you point out discourage less skilled players from participating in PvP. No one likes to lose repeatedly, and the majority of people will be inclined to give up after a few unfair fights, rather than stick with it and learn. Some PvP players might think that's fine, but without new players entering it fairly regularly, that side of the game will never fulfill its potential, and all the cool things that I think everyone would like to see will likely not come to pass.
PvP balance gets exponentially harder with every power, ability, or ship that's added to the game. That's just the nature of the beast. But ultimately what it really takes is a concerted, dedicated effort on the part of the developers to watch what players are doing and make changes in order to keep a fair and level playing field. In Cryptic's case, I'm sure they are stretched a little thin having just come out of launch, and now trying to keep up with players in terms of adding PvE content. But, it would be good to hear from some of them about what they see the main issues as being in PvP, and what they're thinking about doing to correct those.
In that sense, the players on this forum can be a huge asset. I think that if the devs who are working on PvP issues take the time to start discussions and honestly listen to player feedback on the issues and proposed solutions, things will go well. We players will happily pick apart a proposed or change and analyze it in every way imaginable (and a few that aren't). So, hopefully they will.
We have escorts in the game that have learned the tides of the correct weapon of choice, ability, spec, consoles, ship and class. Going up against almost anyone they can swiftly destroy a target as if it was never there in the first place. It has come to the point where we already know them by name and many steer clear. We have science vessels loading up on Photonics and are Sub beaming gamers into inactivity during battle of almost close to 30 seconds of not being able to do anything but die.
What you have described is not an exploit or a cheat, but infact is nothing more than an example of a player or players who have learned how the game works and what works well in combination. Its something all players should strive to do in learning the game and something that should not be "nerfed" because some players don't strive to achieve it. Most would call it min/maxing, and there is no way to keep it from happening
Cryptic however, you have promised us a much different picture. Going 1v1 against these players is almost always a battle in of itself. Tearing through shields and hulls like they never existed destroying target in less then 5 seconds? Seriously? Is that what you meant by extended battle? It wouldn't matter if they had the best purples in the game, they stand no chance against these select few.
Sounds as if you have fought these particular players and lost. Badly.
Why should they be punished because of your inability to adapt? You have access to the same skill sets and equipment, put in an effort to strive to be a better player.
Target sub system ability is a quite secret many are trying to keep a lid on. Many don't give out the details to why this is so effective so allow me to blow the whistle because this needs a massive nerf as well.
A) Specing your toons points in this case specifically 9 across the boards for anything o do with weapons would be your first step. Purchasing for example Target Shields II would be our second step
C) Equipping one phaser beam on your escort would be your third step.
Now full power to weapons approach your target, turn to get your phaser beam arc into firing mode and hit the target shields II. Shields are down, turn into your target and blast away. Rinse and repeat. Sorry for all the non whistle blowers.(whistle blowing implies that something is being exploited-which is not he case)[/
Sounds like very good tactics to me.
The same can be said for TS2 + TB+ JS+ EPtW+CRF+HYT used in combination to destroy a target quickly. I drop your shields, hold you with tractor beam, jam your targeting sensors so you can't shoot back, activate all my dammage buffs and take the attack. No cheats, no exploits and no unbalanced gameplay as you too can do this or counter it with PH,RSP,ST,ET and a whole bunch of other options. These are all tactics that I founsd on the forums, and I don't even PvP.
CRYPTIC, Balancing and diminishing returns within a MMORPG is one of the most crucial mechanics that needs to be tested from all angles of game play and I see this is not happening quick enough or correctly in vital areas. Battles should be lengthy. Ganging up on 5 gamers on 1 needs to be dealt with or whats the point.
I agree, some things are always in need of balancing, but having 5 players versus 1 player just means you needed to bring more players into your team or learn to use what you have to your advantage and use teamwork. If I attack 5 players by myself, I would expect to die just due to the numbers difference.
What I don't understand is why is balancing such a big problem. True, If I sat down and wrote down every ability, class, ship and spec, yes it would take me some time to consider the variables to figure this all out but I am not developing this MMO, I am playing it. Unbalancing will create a slow death for this MMO, one I see and am enduring now as we move into the future but don't wish to see occurring.
How is what you given examples of unbalanced?
The concept of stringing abilities together in combat is not an unbalanced act, but a sign of higher gameplay. It denotes the fact that some players have learned what functions well together for maximum effect with the abilities allowed to them. While some of these abilities may not need to be strung together in the eyes of the Dev's, what you give as examples of min/maxing is just good sound tactics and it makes you seem as if you are just upset that you got manhandled in a PvP fight and want the Dev's to make it all better and soothe your ego.
That was an excellent post Trace. I and my fleet will continue to press on. Largely we are one of the best fleets out there covering many aspects of the game. My main objective is to make sure that my gamers are content with the MMO. Our Tribble members are actively investigating upcoming changes that are being implemented soon. Many of which in my personal opinion will do well in meeting the goals that I see for the MMO.
In my opinion, PVE, PVP, it doesn't really matter. If a gamer does not have the full picture on what ability does what exactly then they will never be able to reach there full potential. Providing us with brief explanation of what abilities do which are almost always vague, and giving us some examples of what ability's effect what is the actual problem. Cryptic must give to us the points and percentages for every ability's that exists in the game cross the board. We need this to better tweak our individual game play styles and effectiveness. Cryptic however continues in its tradition to elude us in exact numbers. The only way to do this now is test it yourself. Causing much farming for merit points, respec alterations, and gear changes. A serious waste of everyone's time as we move forward. I know they have these numbers readily available. Why they hold all of this information a secret is beyond my comprehension.
what ever they wish they must realize that eventually 3rd part developers will make tools for the everyday gamer. Some of which are already out and are still either wrong, need updates or are just very limited. We still don't have a proper way to sum up DPS numbers and heal numbers so that we can better tweak our setups. Believe it or not but things such as these will solve the problem for the non pro's doing better. Giving them these tools they will see it for themselves.
Right now some serious concerns not being addressed that I am seeing are as follows:
-There is still no standard hotkey for the Fleet window
-Movement in game on ground using the W key for forward and using the left+right mouse buttons to go forward, when using one or the other or both the character stops and the keys need to be pressed yet again. These is a constant for Tact officers who need to move around a lot during ground combat.
-Fleet chat is not visible when players move to other chat channels and should be always visible. Communications are very important.
*Fed ships continue to re-spawn in PVP and get stuck on Salvage operation inside the Star base with no way to kill themselves or get unstuck and this has been going on for months.
*Patches come out and still we don't have a transparent and true way of seeing what was altered or changed regardless of how small it was.
-Ticket submition are getting annoying in the OTHER section. All you get is an automated response and they never get back to you.
-Transportation in game still is not true to the IP. Buzzing around manually cross sector block and cross sector, we should be able to click the big map, click on a sector and get a list of systems and select it right from there and autopilot would commence correct piloting vectors and warping on automatic.
-Loot drops for BOE Blue and purples items needs to be increased. I play this game 6-8 hours every day including weekends and I might get one a month.
-Transwarp cool down is way too high in my opinion and we need to be able to set the transwarp to other locations other then SOL. Sol is boring and those who don't have life time subs get to see the room they cant enter every time they leave SOL.
-Item stacks for anomalies and same items cross the board need to be able to stack in 100's or even 500 stacks. Fleet banks don't have the allotment of much needed space for large fleet. Given the sheer size of our fleet our tabs are almost always full. Space in each tab must be added and stacks much stack to much higher then 50.
-ALT key continues to get stuck with every patch promising to fix it. Whats annoying is that you will never realize it until you need to shoot a ship or jump or move in game. Nothing works until you realize you need to hit ALT once to bring things back to normal.
-Enabling Evasive menuevers in space decreases the amount of damage they take. They are still being hit with X amount of damage so I don't know why this is having this effect.
-We need the devs to release a huge list of every abilities, its points, percentages, effects ect... Third party developers will create damage meters for us that are accurate. This will assist cryptic in the future when they wish to lock it down and make there own.
Trace I would love to hear your thoughts on the above bullets but I would very much appreciate it if you forwarded that to our special Dev. Or I can do that. I very much appreciate your words. Spot on.
Many of these questions are irrelevant to the original post or this forum, which should be about Combat. In the future, it would be more helpful to both you and potential respondents if you posted specific issues in the appropriate places.
-Fleet chat is not visible when players move to other chat channels and should be always visible. Communications are very important.
You can select which chat channels -- including Fleet chat -- are displayed in any tab by right-clicking on the chat window and ticking the boxes (under each tab) as appropriate.
*Fed ships continue to re-spawn in PVP and get stuck on Salvage operation inside the Star base with no way to kill themselves or get unstuck and this has been going on for months.
/stuck , /killme -- do these work for you? These are explicitly labelled in the Stuck help window.
*Patches come out and still we don't have a transparent and true way of seeing what was altered or changed regardless of how small it was.
I do not remember seeing a patch without release notes (either in the client Release Notes tab, or in the Announcements forum). Do you have any particular patch in mind?
-Ticket submition are getting annoying in the OTHER section. All you get is an automated response and they never get back to you.
-All- tickets generate an automated response. In order to get maximum coverage (and personal attention for urgent issues), you -also- need to make a forum post in the Gameplay Bugs forum, or Tribble Bug Forum (if related to a Tribble build). Cite your ticket # as well as the steps needed to reproduce your issue. Otherwise, PM GM_Litana or any member of the bug team or QA team. Also read this thread for details on how to write a helpful bug report.
-Transportation in game still is not true to the IP. Buzzing around manually cross sector block and cross sector, we should be able to click the big map, click on a sector and get a list of systems and select it right from there and autopilot would commence correct piloting vectors and warping on automatic.
While point-and-click instant-travel would be convenient, it eliminates the possibility of random enemy encounters (Deep Space Encounters). However, the DEVs did say that they are working on a way to compromise, so that sector space travel would be visible from within the ship (bridge, most likely). We have no further details beyond that.
At present, you can still click on any system name, either on the map or in the system list for your current sector, and your ship will auto-navigate toward it. You will still be susceptible to random enemy encounters, but you can otherwise leave your keyboard alone during flight time.
-Loot drops for BOE Blue and purples items needs to be increased. I play this game 6-8 hours every day including weekends and I might get one a month.
First, 'blue' and 'purple' mean 'rare' and 'very rare' respectively. So it makes sense if they do not drop frequently. However, the Difficulty Slider (now active on the latest build on Tribble) increases frequency of rare and very rare item drops, when set to higher or maximum difficulty.
-ALT key continues to get stuck with every patch promising to fix it. Whats annoying is that you will never realize it until you need to shoot a ship or jump or move in game. Nothing works until you realize you need to hit ALT once to bring things back to normal.
What precisely is happening, and what was happening at the time you experienced your issue? Information like this needs to be detailed, along with a ticket #, in order for anyone to be able to help you. Based on the (very little) information you provided, my best guess is that either you have conflicting keybinds (e.g., ALT key bound to something like a toggle, and ALT+other keys bound to other things), or you have a keyboard (or keyboard macro/programming) issue outside the game client. More information would be helpful. Post something like this in a bug ticket and then either in the Gameplay Bugs forum or the PC/Technical Issues forum.
-Enabling Evasive menuevers in space decreases the amount of damage they take. They are still being hit with X amount of damage so I don't know why this is having this effect.
Defense rating is dependent upon current speed. Defense rating is the 'avoidance' stat, or the counter to enemy Accuracy. Evasive Maneuvers not only (temporarily) increases your speed but it also (temporarily) increases your base Defense rating.
In order to learn more about these ratings, open your Status window, ship tab, and mouseover the different ratings in each section, particularly Defense.
-We need the devs to release a huge list of every abilities, its points, percentages, effects ect... Third party developers will create damage meters for us that are accurate. This will assist cryptic in the future when they wish to lock it down and make there own.
Regarding documentation, the DEVs have stated that they are working on that. Regarding add-ons or mods, the DEVs have stated that they are still internally discussing whether or not to allow third-party development tie-ins to the game client. That discussion is taking place in the Controls and UI forum.
In the meantime, you can enable your CombatLog (/combatlog 1) and then parse the log file using CombatLogParser (a CombatLog parser created by a player for Cryptic games).
===
You might find it helpful to keep up with the latest STO developments by not only reading the Tribble forums (specifically, the Announcement forum), but also checking out the Engineering Reports forum, which gives a rough road-map of upcoming and future development.
Blah, blah, blah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, some people have figured out how to build a great ship, blah, blah, blah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, and I haven't, and it isn't fair and you should nerf everything so that I don't feel inferior, 'cause I'm not having fun.
ok....just reading every single post in this thread. every single word. and i thought that you where comunatating your points fine ,if a bit OTT, untill that last reply to Matt_Dravis. He responed in a nice....ish way and you turn around and call him a moron and an idiot. and some other names. It is looking like this thread is turing in to a rage thread.
Blah, blah, blah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, some people have figured out how to build a great ship, blah, blah, blah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, and I haven't, and it isn't fair and you should nerf everything so that I don't feel inferior, 'cause I'm not having fun.
What you have described is not an exploit or a cheat, but infact is nothing more than an example of a player or players who have learned how the game works and what works well in combination. Its something all players should strive to do in learning the game and something that should not be "nerfed" because some players don't strive to achieve it. Most would call it min/maxing, and there is no way to keep it from happening
Online games are this great laboratory for human behavior and they demonstrate, to me anyhow, that we as a species are really good at being lazy. I don't mean that in any bad way, we are wired to optimize our solutions to problems. In real life, we may make poor optimization choices, since we are influenced by emotion and reality doesn't let you experiment over and over, but in games there is, almost always, exactly one optimal solution to a given scenario and gamers always end up finding it. If it's a solution vastly superior to the next best, then it becomes hugely popular and will probably get nerfed. If it's just a slightly better solution then it becomes the "recommended spec".
I will say that if a skill or strategy is so popular that people will tell you that you absolutely can't do something without it's usually a nerf target. If it's just the best strategy out of several viable and non-optimal ones, then I think it's fine there's always going to be something on top.
I will say that if a skill or strategy is so popular that people will tell you that you absolutely can't do something without it's usually a nerf target. If it's just the best strategy out of several viable and non-optimal ones, then I think it's fine there's always going to be something on top.
Great post.
The thought here is that MMOs always have "solutions" that are more than "optimal" to the point of being requirements if you ever want to win. Left alone too long by the developer, they will cause the loss of players through boredom, which in the long run, diminishes the enjoyment level of everybody. Nobody wants to play "GhostTown Online".
So, I support the original poster in bringing forward his concerns, whether he is correct or not. I also support those who disagree with him, because he may simply not have information they are privy to. Those who disagree with the OP should point out the failures of the original post in a calm, rational fashion. Likewise for the OP when responding to disagreement. Keep it civilized and honorable Trekkies.
Player founds fleet, epeen grows.
Fleet wins in PVP, epeen grows.
Game changes. Others take advantage of changes.
Fleet starts to loose in PVP, epeen shrinks.
Player comes to forum to lament epeen shrinkage.
Forum goers roll eyes....
This happens in EVERY MMO out there in PVP... Always.
Adapt, or quit PVP. Just puhleeez stop whining....
In my opinion, PVE, PVP, it doesn't really matter. If a gamer does not have the full picture on what ability does what exactly then they will never be able to reach there full potential. Providing us with brief explanation of what abilities do which are almost always vague, and giving us some examples of what ability's effect what is the actual problem. Cryptic must give to us the points and percentages for every ability's that exists in the game cross the board. We need this to better tweak our individual game play styles and effectiveness. Cryptic however continues in its tradition to elude us in exact numbers. The only way to do this now is test it yourself. Causing much farming for merit points, respec alterations, and gear changes. A serious waste of everyone's time as we move forward. I know they have these numbers readily available. Why they hold all of this information a secret is beyond my comprehension.
....
Warning! Completely off topic!
Now how does that saying go? Time is money? The more time we need to figure stuff out the more money Cryptic gets.:p ... STF's are another example cuz a PUG team disintegrates really fast without any progress and you keep getting stuck at the same level and doing it over and over again... Some times I spend 30 to 45 minutes just getting a team together cuz people keep leaving. Then you do one run, like the space battle part, and most leave again. If they at least tried to finish that part so we can all continue another day ok but... ppfffft. Now I am considering joining a fleet just to be able to do a STF!? A fleet needs some minimal commitment I think and if you do not have the time or just do not want to join a fleet... well there you have it.
The problem is the Target Sub Shield 3 that escorts get. I current have Target Sub Wep 3 on my escort. I just haven't found or wanted to spend that money on it.
I have instances where my shield would never recover. Power to shields (adjusted my power settings), Eng team, Sci Team, Shield Batter, Haz emitors. EPtS, never came back up.
The reason could be anything since I was also getting FBP, Tyken,Gravity Well, VM, Tractored. Anyone of these could haved bugged on me.
I just shook it off, respawn and blasted away with my team mates.
Please consider creating a separate set of rules for PvP damage and abilities. NCSoft did it. By the time PvPers are done PvE combat will be nerfed to hell.
Oh wait... they will never be done. It's a never ending cycle of PvP moans leading to PvE nerfs. Please take the proper course of action and isolate PvP balancing so it affects only PvP combat.
Please consider creating a separate set of rules for PvP damage and abilities. NCSoft did it. By the time PvPers are done PvE combat will be nerfed to hell.
Oh wait... they will never be done. It's a never ending cycle of PvP moans leading to PvE nerfs. Please take the proper course of action and isolate PvP balancing so it affects only PvP combat.
Thanks!
Yes because PvE currently is so hard, any nerfs will surely shatter playability :rolleyes::rolleyes:
This sarcasm was sponsored by MAVO (Monsters And Villains Organisation)
PVP is broken in the higher tiers, where the self-proclaimed skilled people are just throwing exploits in an unpolished system at each other and claiming that this makes them good. Sad stuff.
Longer battles are what we need. The truly good and entertaining battles in Trek weren't over in 5 seconds, they lasted long enough for you to care about them. These are starships we're fighting on, not fighters that can get killed in a spit second. If battles required actual thought and skill instead of just using FOTM exploits then PVP would actually be a popular part of this game.
If battles took longer, cruisers could actully tank some damage, or atleast try to.
Right now in my BoP the damage I can deal is really insane. To me there isnt much of a difference when I take on an escort or science ship. I would love to see something that tones down damage.
Oh and just a friendly suggestion, if you plan on PvPing when you hit RA, then for god sakes PvP all the way there. That way you atleast wont be hit so shocked when you get there.
the biggest problem this game has....as with most other Role Playing Games with PVP.....is that there is no wild card items....
So a player who has the upper hand will continue to have an upper hand...until someone designs a specific character to beat that person....then that person will have the upper hand until someone else comes along.....a tired and tediious system....the concept looks good on paper to make it fair...yet playwise fails to remain enjoyable for long...
Thats why most people stay off the pvp things....becasue it gets tedius.
Now if there was some wild card items placed in the areas...like a repair item that randomly appears in random spots.....and a cloak item.....and a weapon power up item......i bet alot more people would play....even if the items appear in specifc places
I think the most enjoyable pvp game i have ever played still to this day would be San Fransico rush 2049...simply becasue they had an option to change all the weapons into purple question marks and you got a random weapon when you drove over it, and also the players appeared back on the map in random locations when they spawned there....so there was no chance of spawn camping weapons or players....and someone who had some great weapon wasnt always the only person with it....
Also another feature that made me real happy in Sanfransico Rush 2049...they had a negative point system....so that if the person killed themselves...or died in some silly way...like crashing into a wall or something they got negative points....although i dont think that would be easily created inthis game....unless collison dmaage started happening in PVP.
In this game they could put in hazard portions to the map that cause damage or things like a giant energy spike that instantly kills a player...that might reward a negative point...that way...though stuff like that causing negative points is kind of...geh!!
Maybe i am the only one who likes to do this...but in most pvp games....i tend to find the person who is winning(or who is bragging the most) and make it so they dont keep winning as much....if the negative points are possible i try to get them to have some.....as nothing makes a pvp game more fun then people who catch up...and the entire stress of knowing that anyone could win at any time.
In fact...the best games are when that person who cant play pvp worth beans through my efforts and possibly others as well becomes the victor...as nothing makes the icing on the cake better then making that big blow hard braggert lose that badly....so far though....isnt alot of of people bragging....
So basically, you want us to play a Star Trek version of Quake or Unreal Tournament? Will one of those "Wildcard items" be a Quad Damage?
Yes, players with better items have an advantage over people who don't, that's called having more free time to spend in-game.
Yes, players who spec into a certain build are better at that particular type of gameplay, but it also reduces their effectiveness in other areas. It's a conscious decision. You can't be good at everything, you have to choose what you want to be good at.
If Cryptic wanted everyone to be equal and be good at everything, they would give you enough SP to 9 all the skills in your tree, and would give you all the best purples automatically when you hit RA5.
PVP is broken in the higher tiers, where the self-proclaimed skilled people are just throwing exploits in an unpolished system at each other and claiming that this makes them good. Sad stuff.
Longer battles are what we need. The truly good and entertaining battles in Trek weren't over in 5 seconds, they lasted long enough for you to care about them. These are starships we're fighting on, not fighters that can get killed in a spit second. If battles required actual thought and skill instead of just using FOTM exploits then PVP would actually be a popular part of this game.
I agree here. People can moan about "Oh you're such a noob if you can't adapt" while they're gleefully blowing people to shreds in a couple seconds. How do you expect someone to react quick enough? Especially when you completely dismantle their defenses? These people defend themselves with whatever scraps they can because winning comes easy and they do not want to put forth the effort, and instead rely on abilities that are frankly too good. I will not call these abilities and tactics exploits, because frankly, that implies cheating -- but frequently and most often this is the way the abilities are designed, and their combination with other powerful abilities leads to this mess.
I cannot blame the players too much for what they do, either-- People will naturally gravitate to what works best and what dismantles the opposition the easiest. But their attitudes and arrogance in suggesting what they do possesses some "skill" and the people they shut down/destroy are "unskilled" because they can't deal with it. There is no skill involved in any of that... and likely you did not figure this combination out on your own, either. Likely read about it or someone told you how to do it.
This isn't good design when someone can totally lock you down or destroy you in seconds. But the game is still young and eventually it will work itself out.
someone explain to me in plain English what these alleged exploits are please.
i was just recently accused of using an exploit and aparently frapsed as well - I have an escort - equipped with tetryon dual heavies. the normal buffs alpha beta omega scramble sensors the customary reverse shield polarity and turrets in the rear.
would love to know what Im exploiting and how Im doing it.
I hate people using exploits but I hate it even more if Im doing something and not aware of it.
just curious - I hear a lot about exploit this that or the tuther but havent got a clue..
Comments
Also, sorry, but Target Subsystem stacking is hardly a secret that anybody has bothered to keep. Your post doesn't even describe how to do it right.
I don't know if posting twice the same thing in a different location is against forum rules. I read the rules in every thread and didnt notice that. Like many who dont bother I am not one of those people. What I wrote covers a few areas of the game and I wanted those who seek feedback specifically and or combat specifically to find it.
As for your statements about my post I am sorry I didn't conform to your specific needs. I will curtail things next time just for you.
Got it.
Thanks!!!!!
if it's really this easy then they need tix fix their game.
Please don't get me wrong - I think it's a good thing when you have an ability system that encourages players to get creative with their strategies. But I also think that someone shouldn't be able to take two or three abilities and use them in tandem to effectively create an "I win" button in 1v1 fights.
There's two downsides to that - first is that it will skew the battlefield severely. Ideally, all ship types and character types should be viable in PvP - and balance should be at least a form of rock/paper/scissors, if not even more nuanced than that. If that's not true, and you get everyone flying around as tactical officers in escorts (or science officers in escorts) for PvP matches it takes something away from that side of the game.
The second downside is that tactics such as the ones you point out discourage less skilled players from participating in PvP. No one likes to lose repeatedly, and the majority of people will be inclined to give up after a few unfair fights, rather than stick with it and learn. Some PvP players might think that's fine, but without new players entering it fairly regularly, that side of the game will never fulfill its potential, and all the cool things that I think everyone would like to see will likely not come to pass.
PvP balance gets exponentially harder with every power, ability, or ship that's added to the game. That's just the nature of the beast. But ultimately what it really takes is a concerted, dedicated effort on the part of the developers to watch what players are doing and make changes in order to keep a fair and level playing field. In Cryptic's case, I'm sure they are stretched a little thin having just come out of launch, and now trying to keep up with players in terms of adding PvE content. But, it would be good to hear from some of them about what they see the main issues as being in PvP, and what they're thinking about doing to correct those.
In that sense, the players on this forum can be a huge asset. I think that if the devs who are working on PvP issues take the time to start discussions and honestly listen to player feedback on the issues and proposed solutions, things will go well. We players will happily pick apart a proposed or change and analyze it in every way imaginable (and a few that aren't). So, hopefully they will.
In my opinion, PVE, PVP, it doesn't really matter. If a gamer does not have the full picture on what ability does what exactly then they will never be able to reach there full potential. Providing us with brief explanation of what abilities do which are almost always vague, and giving us some examples of what ability's effect what is the actual problem. Cryptic must give to us the points and percentages for every ability's that exists in the game cross the board. We need this to better tweak our individual game play styles and effectiveness. Cryptic however continues in its tradition to elude us in exact numbers. The only way to do this now is test it yourself. Causing much farming for merit points, respec alterations, and gear changes. A serious waste of everyone's time as we move forward. I know they have these numbers readily available. Why they hold all of this information a secret is beyond my comprehension.
what ever they wish they must realize that eventually 3rd part developers will make tools for the everyday gamer. Some of which are already out and are still either wrong, need updates or are just very limited. We still don't have a proper way to sum up DPS numbers and heal numbers so that we can better tweak our setups. Believe it or not but things such as these will solve the problem for the non pro's doing better. Giving them these tools they will see it for themselves.
Right now some serious concerns not being addressed that I am seeing are as follows:
-There is still no standard hotkey for the Fleet window
-Movement in game on ground using the W key for forward and using the left+right mouse buttons to go forward, when using one or the other or both the character stops and the keys need to be pressed yet again. These is a constant for Tact officers who need to move around a lot during ground combat.
-Fleet chat is not visible when players move to other chat channels and should be always visible. Communications are very important.
*Fed ships continue to re-spawn in PVP and get stuck on Salvage operation inside the Star base with no way to kill themselves or get unstuck and this has been going on for months.
*Patches come out and still we don't have a transparent and true way of seeing what was altered or changed regardless of how small it was.
-Ticket submition are getting annoying in the OTHER section. All you get is an automated response and they never get back to you.
-Transportation in game still is not true to the IP. Buzzing around manually cross sector block and cross sector, we should be able to click the big map, click on a sector and get a list of systems and select it right from there and autopilot would commence correct piloting vectors and warping on automatic.
-Loot drops for BOE Blue and purples items needs to be increased. I play this game 6-8 hours every day including weekends and I might get one a month.
-Transwarp cool down is way too high in my opinion and we need to be able to set the transwarp to other locations other then SOL. Sol is boring and those who don't have life time subs get to see the room they cant enter every time they leave SOL.
-Item stacks for anomalies and same items cross the board need to be able to stack in 100's or even 500 stacks. Fleet banks don't have the allotment of much needed space for large fleet. Given the sheer size of our fleet our tabs are almost always full. Space in each tab must be added and stacks much stack to much higher then 50.
-ALT key continues to get stuck with every patch promising to fix it. Whats annoying is that you will never realize it until you need to shoot a ship or jump or move in game. Nothing works until you realize you need to hit ALT once to bring things back to normal.
-Enabling Evasive menuevers in space decreases the amount of damage they take. They are still being hit with X amount of damage so I don't know why this is having this effect.
-We need the devs to release a huge list of every abilities, its points, percentages, effects ect... Third party developers will create damage meters for us that are accurate. This will assist cryptic in the future when they wish to lock it down and make there own.
Trace I would love to hear your thoughts on the above bullets but I would very much appreciate it if you forwarded that to our special Dev. Or I can do that. I very much appreciate your words. Spot on.
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You can map the Fleet window to a keybind in the Key Binds game options menu.
You can select which chat channels -- including Fleet chat -- are displayed in any tab by right-clicking on the chat window and ticking the boxes (under each tab) as appropriate.
/stuck , /killme -- do these work for you? These are explicitly labelled in the Stuck help window.
I do not remember seeing a patch without release notes (either in the client Release Notes tab, or in the Announcements forum). Do you have any particular patch in mind?
-All- tickets generate an automated response. In order to get maximum coverage (and personal attention for urgent issues), you -also- need to make a forum post in the Gameplay Bugs forum, or Tribble Bug Forum (if related to a Tribble build). Cite your ticket # as well as the steps needed to reproduce your issue. Otherwise, PM GM_Litana or any member of the bug team or QA team. Also read this thread for details on how to write a helpful bug report.
While point-and-click instant-travel would be convenient, it eliminates the possibility of random enemy encounters (Deep Space Encounters). However, the DEVs did say that they are working on a way to compromise, so that sector space travel would be visible from within the ship (bridge, most likely). We have no further details beyond that.
At present, you can still click on any system name, either on the map or in the system list for your current sector, and your ship will auto-navigate toward it. You will still be susceptible to random enemy encounters, but you can otherwise leave your keyboard alone during flight time. First, 'blue' and 'purple' mean 'rare' and 'very rare' respectively. So it makes sense if they do not drop frequently. However, the Difficulty Slider (now active on the latest build on Tribble) increases frequency of rare and very rare item drops, when set to higher or maximum difficulty.
What precisely is happening, and what was happening at the time you experienced your issue? Information like this needs to be detailed, along with a ticket #, in order for anyone to be able to help you. Based on the (very little) information you provided, my best guess is that either you have conflicting keybinds (e.g., ALT key bound to something like a toggle, and ALT+other keys bound to other things), or you have a keyboard (or keyboard macro/programming) issue outside the game client. More information would be helpful. Post something like this in a bug ticket and then either in the Gameplay Bugs forum or the PC/Technical Issues forum.
Defense rating is dependent upon current speed. Defense rating is the 'avoidance' stat, or the counter to enemy Accuracy. Evasive Maneuvers not only (temporarily) increases your speed but it also (temporarily) increases your base Defense rating.
In order to learn more about these ratings, open your Status window, ship tab, and mouseover the different ratings in each section, particularly Defense.
Regarding documentation, the DEVs have stated that they are working on that. Regarding add-ons or mods, the DEVs have stated that they are still internally discussing whether or not to allow third-party development tie-ins to the game client. That discussion is taking place in the Controls and UI forum.
In the meantime, you can enable your CombatLog (/combatlog 1) and then parse the log file using CombatLogParser (a CombatLog parser created by a player for Cryptic games).
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You might find it helpful to keep up with the latest STO developments by not only reading the Tribble forums (specifically, the Announcement forum), but also checking out the Engineering Reports forum, which gives a rough road-map of upcoming and future development.
Blah, blah, blah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, some people have figured out how to build a great ship, blah, blah, blah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, and I haven't, and it isn't fair and you should nerf everything so that I don't feel inferior, 'cause I'm not having fun.
Would you like some cheese with your whine?
thats all.
LOL. This hits this thread on the head.
ENough said.
you lost me "I and my fleet"
what are ya, 14?
its My fleet and I""if u want too brag about being a fleet marshall, or just say, "our fleet", much more mature.
Since this simple sentence reveals ur "Me myself and Irene" pattern of thought, nothing u say after that gets taken serious by serious players...
I will say that if a skill or strategy is so popular that people will tell you that you absolutely can't do something without it's usually a nerf target. If it's just the best strategy out of several viable and non-optimal ones, then I think it's fine there's always going to be something on top.
The thought here is that MMOs always have "solutions" that are more than "optimal" to the point of being requirements if you ever want to win. Left alone too long by the developer, they will cause the loss of players through boredom, which in the long run, diminishes the enjoyment level of everybody. Nobody wants to play "GhostTown Online".
So, I support the original poster in bringing forward his concerns, whether he is correct or not. I also support those who disagree with him, because he may simply not have information they are privy to. Those who disagree with the OP should point out the failures of the original post in a calm, rational fashion. Likewise for the OP when responding to disagreement. Keep it civilized and honorable Trekkies.
Your wall of text can be easily distilled -
Player founds fleet, epeen grows.
Fleet wins in PVP, epeen grows.
Game changes. Others take advantage of changes.
Fleet starts to loose in PVP, epeen shrinks.
Player comes to forum to lament epeen shrinkage.
Forum goers roll eyes....
This happens in EVERY MMO out there in PVP... Always.
Adapt, or quit PVP. Just puhleeez stop whining....
Warning! Completely off topic!
Now how does that saying go? Time is money? The more time we need to figure stuff out the more money Cryptic gets.:p ... STF's are another example cuz a PUG team disintegrates really fast without any progress and you keep getting stuck at the same level and doing it over and over again... Some times I spend 30 to 45 minutes just getting a team together cuz people keep leaving. Then you do one run, like the space battle part, and most leave again. If they at least tried to finish that part so we can all continue another day ok but... ppfffft. Now I am considering joining a fleet just to be able to do a STF!? A fleet needs some minimal commitment I think and if you do not have the time or just do not want to join a fleet... well there you have it.
It's like 20 or 30% if I remember. That is also just one side facing.
I have instances where my shield would never recover. Power to shields (adjusted my power settings), Eng team, Sci Team, Shield Batter, Haz emitors. EPtS, never came back up.
The reason could be anything since I was also getting FBP, Tyken,Gravity Well, VM, Tractored. Anyone of these could haved bugged on me.
I just shook it off, respawn and blasted away with my team mates.
Please consider creating a separate set of rules for PvP damage and abilities. NCSoft did it. By the time PvPers are done PvE combat will be nerfed to hell.
Oh wait... they will never be done. It's a never ending cycle of PvP moans leading to PvE nerfs. Please take the proper course of action and isolate PvP balancing so it affects only PvP combat.
Thanks!
Yes because PvE currently is so hard, any nerfs will surely shatter playability :rolleyes::rolleyes:
This sarcasm was sponsored by MAVO (Monsters And Villains Organisation)
Longer battles are what we need. The truly good and entertaining battles in Trek weren't over in 5 seconds, they lasted long enough for you to care about them. These are starships we're fighting on, not fighters that can get killed in a spit second. If battles required actual thought and skill instead of just using FOTM exploits then PVP would actually be a popular part of this game.
If battles took longer, cruisers could actully tank some damage, or atleast try to.
Right now in my BoP the damage I can deal is really insane. To me there isnt much of a difference when I take on an escort or science ship. I would love to see something that tones down damage.
Oh and just a friendly suggestion, if you plan on PvPing when you hit RA, then for god sakes PvP all the way there. That way you atleast wont be hit so shocked when you get there.
This is what happens in all PVP
the biggest problem this game has....as with most other Role Playing Games with PVP.....is that there is no wild card items....
So a player who has the upper hand will continue to have an upper hand...until someone designs a specific character to beat that person....then that person will have the upper hand until someone else comes along.....a tired and tediious system....the concept looks good on paper to make it fair...yet playwise fails to remain enjoyable for long...
Thats why most people stay off the pvp things....becasue it gets tedius.
Now if there was some wild card items placed in the areas...like a repair item that randomly appears in random spots.....and a cloak item.....and a weapon power up item......i bet alot more people would play....even if the items appear in specifc places
I think the most enjoyable pvp game i have ever played still to this day would be San Fransico rush 2049...simply becasue they had an option to change all the weapons into purple question marks and you got a random weapon when you drove over it, and also the players appeared back on the map in random locations when they spawned there....so there was no chance of spawn camping weapons or players....and someone who had some great weapon wasnt always the only person with it....
Also another feature that made me real happy in Sanfransico Rush 2049...they had a negative point system....so that if the person killed themselves...or died in some silly way...like crashing into a wall or something they got negative points....although i dont think that would be easily created inthis game....unless collison dmaage started happening in PVP.
In this game they could put in hazard portions to the map that cause damage or things like a giant energy spike that instantly kills a player...that might reward a negative point...that way...though stuff like that causing negative points is kind of...geh!!
Maybe i am the only one who likes to do this...but in most pvp games....i tend to find the person who is winning(or who is bragging the most) and make it so they dont keep winning as much....if the negative points are possible i try to get them to have some.....as nothing makes a pvp game more fun then people who catch up...and the entire stress of knowing that anyone could win at any time.
In fact...the best games are when that person who cant play pvp worth beans through my efforts and possibly others as well becomes the victor...as nothing makes the icing on the cake better then making that big blow hard braggert lose that badly....so far though....isnt alot of of people bragging....
So basically, you want us to play a Star Trek version of Quake or Unreal Tournament? Will one of those "Wildcard items" be a Quad Damage?
Yes, players with better items have an advantage over people who don't, that's called having more free time to spend in-game.
Yes, players who spec into a certain build are better at that particular type of gameplay, but it also reduces their effectiveness in other areas. It's a conscious decision. You can't be good at everything, you have to choose what you want to be good at.
If Cryptic wanted everyone to be equal and be good at everything, they would give you enough SP to 9 all the skills in your tree, and would give you all the best purples automatically when you hit RA5.
I agree here. People can moan about "Oh you're such a noob if you can't adapt" while they're gleefully blowing people to shreds in a couple seconds. How do you expect someone to react quick enough? Especially when you completely dismantle their defenses? These people defend themselves with whatever scraps they can because winning comes easy and they do not want to put forth the effort, and instead rely on abilities that are frankly too good. I will not call these abilities and tactics exploits, because frankly, that implies cheating -- but frequently and most often this is the way the abilities are designed, and their combination with other powerful abilities leads to this mess.
I cannot blame the players too much for what they do, either-- People will naturally gravitate to what works best and what dismantles the opposition the easiest. But their attitudes and arrogance in suggesting what they do possesses some "skill" and the people they shut down/destroy are "unskilled" because they can't deal with it. There is no skill involved in any of that... and likely you did not figure this combination out on your own, either. Likely read about it or someone told you how to do it.
This isn't good design when someone can totally lock you down or destroy you in seconds. But the game is still young and eventually it will work itself out.
i was just recently accused of using an exploit and aparently frapsed as well - I have an escort - equipped with tetryon dual heavies. the normal buffs alpha beta omega scramble sensors the customary reverse shield polarity and turrets in the rear.
would love to know what Im exploiting and how Im doing it.
I hate people using exploits but I hate it even more if Im doing something and not aware of it.
just curious - I hear a lot about exploit this that or the tuther but havent got a clue..
call me dumb or a total newb