I was making a list of what each side gets. this is pvp related.
Klingon's get :
gets to use CC first.( snb, jam, VM, ect)
gets to pre-load buffs/ weapons so they overlap.( omega, HY, Rapid-fire, ect )
get to regroup with out being jumped on the way back.
gets to travel at full impulse with no fear to be jumped with power offline.
gets to wait for power level to adjust before engages.
gets to pick targets pre-fight,
gets to wait till all allies are in range and in position before firing.
can not be jumped if solo.
does not fear if the ship your jumping has allies in firing range.
gets to battle cloak if shields offline.
gets to select canons on any vessel as choice.
one more class type ship.( feds get 3, Klingon get 4)
feds get :
10% more hull on average.
30% more shields on average.
access too better bridge officers skills on exchange. ( like beam target shields 3, ect.)
does not include each ship types build cause most ships are not comparable. and i do not think this comparing is not valid for this argument.
I was making a list of what each side gets. this is pvp related.
Klingon's get :
gets to use CC first.( snb, jam, VM, ect)
gets to pre-load buffs/ weapons so they overlap.( omega, HY, Rapid-fire, ect )
get to regroup with out being jumped on the way back.
gets to travel at full impulse with no fear to be jumped with power offline.
gets to wait for power level to adjust before engages.
gets to pick targets pre-fight,
gets to wait till all allies are in range and in position before firing.
can not be jumped if solo.
does not fear if the ship your jumping has allies in firing range.
gets to battle cloak if shields offline.
gets to select canons on any vessel as choice.
one more class type ship.( feds get 3, Klingon get 4)
feds get :
10% more hull on average.
30% more shields on average.
access too better bridge officers skills on exchange. ( like beam target shields 3, ect.)
does not include each ship types build cause most ships are not comparable. and i do not think this comparing is not valid for this argument.
what did i miss, that only one side gets?
Most of what you refer to seems to be tied to cloaking. Obviously you havn't played much as Klingon to see how just how it functions.
Re:
getting to use them first...assume you mean by first you mean activate them before uncloacking...dumb idea since you waste precious effect time while you uncloak and wait for your power to transfer. Uncloaking in the middle of a group of Feds, even a couple, is a sure way to get hammered before your shields are up.
Klingons do not have access to buff/resist abilities at any level that Feds do not also have access to. If anything, Feds usually have better science abilities since most of their ships allow a higher level of science BO.
Pre-load buffs? see above...an BTW, almost all buff/resist abilities cannot be activated while cloaked, there are very few exceptions.
Getting to regroup, ya got me there, cloaking can allow you to do that. But, if the Feds are using detection abilities they can detect you anyway if you get too close.
Getting to wait for power levels to adjust...well, ya got to wait for the power levels to adjust once you uncloak, otherwise, your shields collapse as soon as you get hit because there is no power to your shields yet. Don't know how that means we "get to". More like, you'd better uncloak far enough away to get those pwr levels up before engaging or you'll be dead in 5 seconds.
Getting to pick targets and wait for allies...well, yep again, ya got me there. Only helps when you have co-operative team members and equal numbers, tho.
Can't be jumped solo? Maybe...again, if Feds use their detection abilities, they can be found and killed quickly if found since they have no shields while cloaked, giving a min of 3 seconds of incoming fire with no shields to slow down the damage, nor the abilitiy to apply any buffs or resistance since your cloak is techniclly still engaged.
Does not fear target's in range of Allies? Only an idiot would do that. If there's other bad guys around your target and you don't think they'll hurt your chances of killing your target before you die, you need to go back to PvE where you can easily get away with that. It simply doesn't work that way in PvP. Ignoring your target allies is a sure way to die quickly and often.
The battle clak...beating a Dead Horse there...only the BOP can battle cloak, and there are several ways to defeat it and hit them, usually delivering a mortal blow due to no shields and the fragile hull all BOPs have.
Cannons...I was under the impression pretty much all Fed ships could now use cannons as well. Perhaps I am mistaken there. I see a Lot of Feds with cannons in PvP... But, just because we can use them, doesn't mean every single one uses them. Their very narrow firing arcs makes them not always the weapon of choice. Having heavy weapons won't do you any good if you can't keep them in arc.
More classes of ships? Hardly...I present this user submitted ship tier chart: http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/stoshiptierchartv19.png
You also failed to mention:
Feds get crafting abilities, tribbles that can be breed and thus improved with very useful buffs, storyline missions with item rewards, lots of PvE missions that drop loot left and right which fattens their bank accounts selling the stuff on the exchange to Klingons who can't get them any other way, Vendors that sell almost every type of weapon and console or equipment there is, science ships with "built-in" abilities that Klingons have to have a BO or Captain skill for and tons more costume choices (not that I personally care about that much).
Hmm, anything I missed?
I really hate feeding trolls, guess I'm just in the mood today...
this. Cloak imho is only a problem when you can't survive the alpha strike (which rightfully happens sometimes; read 5 players on 1 target <or> 4 snb shots). I used to ***** about it being boring and insipid, but I got used to it. keep in mind this was a long time ago (during the beta)
yes klingons can utilise the advantage of cloak to grp/first strike. However the other day you and i (yyrd) defended against wave after wave of federation ships while defending the sensor node, you in a carrier and me in a bop, you cant cloak and i remained in combat from the beginning to the end of the game without cloaking, we died only once each during that whole time.
All of those points you mention that are linked to cloak are things any of the returning feds could have done as we were never out of combat and were reacting to changing situations not dictating the situation. Under those conditions all we had were inferior shields and hulls and good team work and high experience. we never lost the node and in the end the constant zerging moved on to other map areas. If they are taken the time they had to wait for full power or arrived on mass they could have and should have overwhelmed us, but they didn't. That had nothign to do with cloak, it had nothing to do with first strike, or cc, it had everything to do with poor play.
You forgot to mention that Klingons are usually a lot more experienced in PvP than Feds and thats not a put down or saying that one side is just better than other but it relates to how much time one side spends in pvp compared to the other side. A lot of "how to" and "what ability to use and when" comes from experience. Just because I roll a Klingon it does not give me an automatic "I win" button. I grant you that the ability to stealth is a big plus but unless you are in a BoP you can not combat stealth so you are open for continuous attacks and can't get away and disengage/restealth as fast as someone in BoP can.
On the other hand I do run into "increadibly" tough Feds from time to time that are doing something different than the rest (call it more skill or better BO loadout) that leave me puzzled how exactly they can counter my attack so fast and make me actually use strategy (what ability to use when and pay better attention to their shield/hull level) rather than just hit button 1, 2, 3 etc...
But back to your general point. The stealth let Klingons use alpha strike strategy but Feds usually stay in a ball so even if I can take down one ship fast that does not mean that I'll get away or that I'll survive. If I pop speed buff and use evasive and try to combat stealth while out of range I might get away but that will work only in a BoP.
Feds have extra consoles too. And different BO setups - which can be advantageous if used correctly to counter Klingon tactics.
And if Klingons get to use things first - adapt your strategy. If you play as a team then the Klings will burn their cooldowns and become sitting ducks. I don't think Feds realize how weak we are when battle cloaking...I can survive a battle cloak if I have A) Evasive Maneuvers Engineering team C) Hazard Emitters D) EmPower to Engines *all at once* and I still escape with like 10% health. The majority of the time I just run because battle cloaking is suicide.
Klingons have one more class type ship? You have your choice of two escorts, two cruisers, and two sci vessels all with different advantages. We get one escort, one cruiser, and one sci vessel (carrier) or a BoP which needs to sacrifice certain other abilities to specialize as a specific ship. The BoP can be jack of all trades - or a master of one - but not both.
Comments
Most of what you refer to seems to be tied to cloaking. Obviously you havn't played much as Klingon to see how just how it functions.
Re:
getting to use them first...assume you mean by first you mean activate them before uncloacking...dumb idea since you waste precious effect time while you uncloak and wait for your power to transfer. Uncloaking in the middle of a group of Feds, even a couple, is a sure way to get hammered before your shields are up.
Klingons do not have access to buff/resist abilities at any level that Feds do not also have access to. If anything, Feds usually have better science abilities since most of their ships allow a higher level of science BO.
Pre-load buffs? see above...an BTW, almost all buff/resist abilities cannot be activated while cloaked, there are very few exceptions.
Getting to regroup, ya got me there, cloaking can allow you to do that. But, if the Feds are using detection abilities they can detect you anyway if you get too close.
Getting to wait for power levels to adjust...well, ya got to wait for the power levels to adjust once you uncloak, otherwise, your shields collapse as soon as you get hit because there is no power to your shields yet. Don't know how that means we "get to". More like, you'd better uncloak far enough away to get those pwr levels up before engaging or you'll be dead in 5 seconds.
Getting to pick targets and wait for allies...well, yep again, ya got me there. Only helps when you have co-operative team members and equal numbers, tho.
Can't be jumped solo? Maybe...again, if Feds use their detection abilities, they can be found and killed quickly if found since they have no shields while cloaked, giving a min of 3 seconds of incoming fire with no shields to slow down the damage, nor the abilitiy to apply any buffs or resistance since your cloak is techniclly still engaged.
Does not fear target's in range of Allies? Only an idiot would do that. If there's other bad guys around your target and you don't think they'll hurt your chances of killing your target before you die, you need to go back to PvE where you can easily get away with that. It simply doesn't work that way in PvP. Ignoring your target allies is a sure way to die quickly and often.
The battle clak...beating a Dead Horse there...only the BOP can battle cloak, and there are several ways to defeat it and hit them, usually delivering a mortal blow due to no shields and the fragile hull all BOPs have.
Cannons...I was under the impression pretty much all Fed ships could now use cannons as well. Perhaps I am mistaken there. I see a Lot of Feds with cannons in PvP... But, just because we can use them, doesn't mean every single one uses them. Their very narrow firing arcs makes them not always the weapon of choice. Having heavy weapons won't do you any good if you can't keep them in arc.
More classes of ships? Hardly...I present this user submitted ship tier chart:
http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/stoshiptierchartv19.png
You also failed to mention:
Feds get crafting abilities, tribbles that can be breed and thus improved with very useful buffs, storyline missions with item rewards, lots of PvE missions that drop loot left and right which fattens their bank accounts selling the stuff on the exchange to Klingons who can't get them any other way, Vendors that sell almost every type of weapon and console or equipment there is, science ships with "built-in" abilities that Klingons have to have a BO or Captain skill for and tons more costume choices (not that I personally care about that much).
Hmm, anything I missed?
I really hate feeding trolls, guess I'm just in the mood today...
this. Cloak imho is only a problem when you can't survive the alpha strike (which rightfully happens sometimes; read 5 players on 1 target <or> 4 snb shots). I used to ***** about it being boring and insipid, but I got used to it. keep in mind this was a long time ago (during the beta)
>yyrd@yyrd..<
its just a list of things klingon can do feds cant, and a list feds can do klingons cant.
not so bad.
yes the cloak lets 90% of these happen. but still theer all valid.
shall i add the the list, " fed can detect klingons cloak , randomly, within 10k? not sure cause both get this skill.
anyways, it is not to debate about the CLOAK. its about skill balance. not about any of these skills.
i think you agreed with me , with out agreeing.. and the end part about the feds: im referring to pvp. pve is another beast to tackle.
All of those points you mention that are linked to cloak are things any of the returning feds could have done as we were never out of combat and were reacting to changing situations not dictating the situation. Under those conditions all we had were inferior shields and hulls and good team work and high experience. we never lost the node and in the end the constant zerging moved on to other map areas. If they are taken the time they had to wait for full power or arrived on mass they could have and should have overwhelmed us, but they didn't. That had nothign to do with cloak, it had nothing to do with first strike, or cc, it had everything to do with poor play.
On the other hand I do run into "increadibly" tough Feds from time to time that are doing something different than the rest (call it more skill or better BO loadout) that leave me puzzled how exactly they can counter my attack so fast and make me actually use strategy (what ability to use when and pay better attention to their shield/hull level) rather than just hit button 1, 2, 3 etc...
But back to your general point. The stealth let Klingons use alpha strike strategy but Feds usually stay in a ball so even if I can take down one ship fast that does not mean that I'll get away or that I'll survive. If I pop speed buff and use evasive and try to combat stealth while out of range I might get away but that will work only in a BoP.
And if Klingons get to use things first - adapt your strategy. If you play as a team then the Klings will burn their cooldowns and become sitting ducks. I don't think Feds realize how weak we are when battle cloaking...I can survive a battle cloak if I have A) Evasive Maneuvers
Klingons have one more class type ship? You have your choice of two escorts, two cruisers, and two sci vessels all with different advantages. We get one escort, one cruiser, and one sci vessel (carrier) or a BoP which needs to sacrifice certain other abilities to specialize as a specific ship. The BoP can be jack of all trades - or a master of one - but not both.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=150840
LOL thats the truth!! And I play fed and am tired of the whines as well.