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FvF killing KvF PvP?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited April 2010 in PvP Gameplay
I knew it would get like this, but I never imagined it would be this hard to get good KvF games, quickly, on redside.

I do most of my space PvP Blueside, and my ground PvP Redside. This latest FvF change has really just spread the problem around, hasn't it?

A request:

Change this to all FvK and KvK, with FvF kicking in if and *only* if you cannot get a FvK match in 20 min by mixing if need be the red side (see below).

Mix and match the redside population if need be - add F players to K side as red by making them mirror universe versions - change their ship designation to ISS, and their fleet logo and combadge to the stabbed earth Terran logo, just for the duration of that battle.

The current populations never need to mix F and K blueside, may as well leave that be.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Jnoh wrote:
    I knew it would get like this, but I never imagined it would be this hard to get good KvF games, quickly, on redside.

    I do most of my space PvP Blueside, and my ground PvP Redside. This latest FvF change has really just spread the problem around, hasn't it?

    A request:

    Change this to all FvK and KvK, with FvF kicking in if and *only* if you cannot get a FvK match in 20 min by mixing if need be the red side (see below).

    Mix and match the redside population if need be - add F players to K side as red by making them mirror universe versions - change their ship designation to ISS, and their fleet logo and combadge to the stabbed earth Terran logo, just for the duration of that battle.

    The current populations never need to mix F and K blueside, may as well leave that be.

    This is ridiculous request. FvF is saving PvP for Feds, because of FvK imbalance issues.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    FvF is too a major timesaver considering that if your Fed, it takes an aaaaaaaaage to get into a FvK mstch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    FvF is too a major timesaver considering that if your Fed, it takes an aaaaaaaaage to get into a FvK mstch.

    QFT!

    Its not the FvF thats killing PvP.... its the flawed Que system that is killing PvP.
    I got better things to do all day than wait around 30 minutes just to get into one PvP match.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I can make 100K in an hour doing FvF, I can make approximately make half that in FvK in 1 hour.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    What level are you talking about here? I do BG/RA level space pvp and if it doesn't instant pop, then it will within a minute usually....

    Obviously things are quite bad at the lower levels..... I've kind of abandoned trying to level up my Engy Klink just now, because of the stupid time sap between games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    PVP for RAs is still slow. That why I'm lvling up my Klink.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ngaio wrote: »
    This is ridiculous request. FvF is saving PvP for Feds, because of FvK imbalance issues.

    It's ridiculous to want to be able to level up your character? 'Cause that's how Klingons level up.

    Just because you like it one way doesn't make a request for a little help on someone else's faction "ridiculous." What it does do is give a suggestion you -- and I -- don't agree with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    FvF is too a major timesaver considering that if your Fed, it takes an aaaaaaaaage to get into a FvK mstch.
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    QFT!

    Its not the FvF thats killing PvP.... its the flawed Que system that is killing PvP.
    I got better things to do all day than wait around 30 minutes just to get into one PvP match.
    PVP for RAs is still slow. That why I'm lvling up my Klink.

    all of these pretty much sum up my view on this.

    also, 90% of terribad feds go into fvf first, meaning that (sometimes) better players go into fvk. its still depressing though when I can outheal everyone on my team exponentially AND outdps them by a factor of 4 (200k, second highest was an escort, with 47k not joking)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ngaio wrote: »
    This is ridiculous request. FvF is saving PvP for Feds, because of FvK imbalance issues.

    There's not as much FvK going on because there's not that many "K" to begin with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ngaio wrote: »
    This is ridiculous request. FvF is saving PvP for Feds, because of FvK imbalance issues.
    This is hardly a ridiculous request. FvF is killing the klingon side. Seriously, look at your zones in FvF. There were 411 folks on in all the instances of the sol system of the sol system I looked at tonight. You are lucky if you see 20 klingons in Quonos instance combined. Galanda might have 20-30 at a time. It's pretty steady. Klingons are quitting or going fed because being a klingon is not very fun. We can't level if there is no one to pvp. Our pve contest is busted, and is in no way fun.
    It's ridiculous to want to be able to level up your character? 'Cause that's how Klingons level up.

    Just because you like it one way doesn't make a request for a little help on someone else's faction "ridiculous." What it does do is give a suggestion you -- and I -- don't agree with.

    I agree. No leveling up klingons, no pvp dailies for a large part of the feds except warzones. I quit leveling up my tac officer because it honestly took way to long. There is nothing to do except dailies and Infected/cure runs on my BG5 sci. I get on to do some premade, but when I am by myself, there is nothing to do.
    PVP for RAs is still slow. That why I'm lvling up my Klink.
    Good luck, it's nice to see someone who likes to pvp for us.


    There really aren't the imbalance issues that people think the klinks have going for them, thus having a need for FvF. Feds have problems in ground and space for a lot of reasons. First off, you have daisy pickers/right fielders. These are the folks that are just there to do a tiny bit of damage and collect all the points/badges/cash for participating. (I think participation rewards are horrible, because it kills the fed urge to really fight.) They basically just are there picking their nose and doing nothing, so your team is already at a disadvantage. In ground pvp, it's very similar but thee is the added benefit of FREE CONSUMABLES(YAY!!!!), so you have the chance for multiple people TRIBBLE up your game. Add in the lack of teamwork that plagues the feds(yeah I know about this very well since I started leveling up a fed), and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Klingon fleets primarily recruit for the expressed purpose of premade pvp groups. I have been recruiting with the same exact message I used for my Klingon guild for a week on the fedside and have only gotten one request to join. Actually take a look at the guild spam, I have only seen two guilds advertise for premade pvp other than myself. A pug really doesn't have a chance to win out against a premade. And a non fleet premade doesn't have a chance against a vent using fleet premade. There are probably a lot of other reasons I can't think of right now why feds lose in pvp, but these are my big pet peeves as a BG5 turned Lt.Com Starfleet person.

    It's a lot tougher than it used to be to grind up to BG5. I understand the need for f v f. It kind of sucks going against a faction that consistently beats you because you are a casual pvper and they are experienced pvpers. KvK is dead because we generally don't want the bad blood that might hurt teamwork. It's why our KvK warzone is usually dead up until RA where it is a quick alternative with a 50/50 shot of pvp as opposed to the 100% of the FvK. We rarely fight each other, and we even have missions to do it. I think i have maybe been in 3 KvK matches in a grind up to BG5 Science and Commander 6 tac combined. But in the end, you will have less and less klingons playing because they can't pvp to level up. Cryptic should change the FvK queue system so experienced fed players don't have to play with people who are just there for the points. It would me more fair for all pvp players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    A simple solution could be, that you don't queue up for FvF/FvK but just for a game type and then randomly get assigned to either fight a mock battle with feds or get called to action in a real battle with klingons.
    Could work the same way for Klingons and their KvK, too.

    Less wait time for queues, faster action for everyone, more "realism", since what feds would shoot each other in mock battles when the real enemy comes knocking?

    The only disadvantage would be that sucky feds who are afraid of a real challenge can't go fight each other reliably, but fear not, i've got a solution against sucky:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=150840
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ummm I have no idea what you're talking about. The longest queue I've had at tier 5 since FvF PvP came out was 5 minutes - if that. Well maybe a bit longer than that for the 10v10 but I settle for the one minute or less pop I get with 7v7 Salvage.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    BobTheYak wrote:
    Ummm I have no idea what you're talking about.
    Levling up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Oh I leveled up before FvF but we had even more limited PvE content. Granted PvE content is still pew pew - you have a couple more options for keeping yourself occupied while waiting in Q. PvE is probably faster for leveling than PvP anyway. Agreed not as fun but at least you're not completely stuck flying around sector space aimlessly while waiting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    BobTheYak wrote:
    PvE is probably faster for leveling than PvP anyway.
    Actually doing space arena FvK was the fastest way to level. You won all the time for double exp, no feds playing the 'i can bore you to death by cloaking longer than you' game some TRIBBLE klings are so very fond of... plain and simple go and make 15 feds explode. rinse, repeat.

    Just don't do ground missions, sci is there even more annoying than in space and killing the same guy 40 times over just do finish one mission sucks and ain't worth the hassle, neither exp nor fun wise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    PvP is good if you are on the Klink side, but bad if you are on the Fed side. Simple reason is everyone wants to have options and the easy button for leveling. Klinks dont get many options, and when it comes to leveling, sure a Klink "can" do PvE, but PvP is 90% of leveling up as a Klink. And with fewer Klinks now than ever I feel bad for the Klinks leveling up right now since probably 75% of the population plays Fed as primary. That being said it is in the hands of those wanting more PvP to stop complaining and do something about it. I play Klink at T5 and have a T3 Fed and T2 Klink that I PvP with. I don't play just one, I play them all, and do so when PvP is slow. When PvP is slow on any given character I will que up for PvP and go do a few missions to pass the time.

    If you want something done, do it yourself. That is what I have been doing, and you should stop doing what your doing right now if you cant get into a PvP match and play the other side for a change. Chances are you will get into PvP and have oh I dont know, some fun perhaps?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Keyol wrote: »
    A simple solution could be, that you don't queue up for FvF/FvK but just for a game type and then randomly get assigned to either fight a mock battle with feds or get called to action in a real battle with klingons.
    Could work the same way for Klingons and their KvK, too.

    Less wait time for queues, faster action for everyone, more "realism", since what feds would shoot each other in mock battles when the real enemy comes knocking?

    The only disadvantage would be that sucky feds who are afraid of a real challenge can't go fight each other reliably, but fear not, i've got a solution against sucky:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=150840

    Solution that has already been proposed MANY MANY times:

    1 "space pvp" queue
    1 "ground pvp" queue

    Maps being randomized, matches filled with FvF, FvK, KvK depending on population. At the very least, make 2 spaces pvp queues for "arenas" and for "capture and hold" maps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    They have those, Yodarkore. Or at least for FvK and KvK. I assume you're referring to the fact that there are *several* and we only need one due to the limited amount of PvPers?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Theres another option.

    Remove all rewards of any kind from FvF matches.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Speaking just for myself here, i've found that my opponents in the FVF matches are, shall we say, more civil? The klingon players tend to be poor sports when they start losing. Haven't gotten cursed out by any fed players yet, and for good reason - I could be on their team in the next game. That alone is reason enough to be curteous to the enemy.

    I appreciate the Klingons' dedication to upholding the Empire's image but no one's going to want to fight you guys if you're jerks to the other team when you lose.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I rarely speak to feds, let alone while im doing PvP. It is really just a small percentage for either side that trash talk. It would be nice if STO did what WoW did and introduce faction specific chat where the other side sees it as jibberish. But, then again the multifleets wouldnt exist and down the road later we wouldnt have multifaction missions/raids that are being rumored of.

    In the end though it comes down to this, do you really care what the enemy is saying? It is one thing if it is just open chat, but if they start PMing you it is entirely different and I do not condone that behavior at all. If you are in the fleet I am in you will be expelled from the fleet and black listed from the PvP allies of ours.

    I myself see both sides taunting, and only once have I been PMd during PvP that I noticed. I got accused of exploiting. Long story short I was in a BoP fighting a Prometheus and out turned, out gunned, and killed the guy that had the drop on me. Evasive maneuvers is what I used and he claimed it lasted too long. Little did he know I had hit EPE (Emergency Power to Engines) just prior to his attack on me, and I hit evasive maneuvers to get a firing arc on him. I cannot help it if he was using beams and I was using DHCs and TCs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I play both Fed and Klingon and lets face it... Klingons have the advantage in coordination, escape, and the ability to focus fire initially through cloak. The average klingon player is also better built and skliled in PvP (largely because PvE for klingons is non-existant). Each of those advantages make FvK not all that enticing.

    If you want to improve the queue times you and your team can do quite a bit to keep the Feds coming back for more.

    First thing, remember that it often sucks to pvp as Fed. In general it the level of suckage is proportional to the scoreboard i.e. 0-15 means Feds aren't happy at the end of the match and probably are tempted to drop off the queue list. If you recognize that, then be kind during and at the end of the match and limit the smacktalk to team talk.

    Second thing play with sportsmanship, commend Fed's genuine efforts, and let 1v1s and 2v2s finish if the feds are outnumbered or are unable/unwilling to coordinate instead of 3v1ing each Fed that is trying to make a new fedball. .

    Three, don't put so much worth on the scoreboard, if both sides have fun and it's a reasonable match then the Feds will be more likely to keep the queues busy. It may not show on the scoreboard for most damage afterwards, but the Feds will be far more likely to stick around for the next match, and in turn you'll have a lower queue time, and chances are you'll still win 1v1. Then once the Fed team gets coordinated or some skilled Feds join up, then you can go all out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Good points Debonair, but sadly neither side will do this in practice. I think what should happen is they should release two new factions, have those two factions allied with eachother, and then after a month or two make it fed and klink as allies against say for example romulans and cardassians. This way each side gets ships that have massive shields and hulls, and also get ships that can cloak thanks to two sides on each side having different play styles.

    If im on to something it is because I am tired and bored from lack of good PvP today. So, gnite. :(
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