For one thing, there are too many stupidly overpowered/non-fun powers. We all know what they are.
But for another... there are simply too many powers. Period.
In T2 PvP, it's about maneuvering your ship, choosing your target, and carefully timing your torps and your limited selection of powers. The powers in T2 must be deployed with care since you have so few, but it's easy to keep track of them for the same reason. You can concentrate more on the killing. And few of them are game-changers on their own... cruisers can get one dose of RSP I guess, but it only lasts 15 seconds and costs them the use of any other LT power. And it can't heal other ships. Seems pretty balanced to me.
In T5 though, it is just insane. It's tough enough to keep track of all my powers on my RA5 for PvE space combat. In PvP, no, forget it. 12 BOFF powers plus all your personal powers, on top of all the normal business such as torps/mines/shield redirects/power redistributions. Who needs that headache? And that's just my own powers. Let alone having a decent dual with a klingon get ruined by VM/subnucleonic/5 other OP'ed powers spammed one after another.
Good PvP games (MMO and otherwise) give players only a limited selection of abilities. Think the Battlefield series, DAOC pre-TOA, Counterstrike, and need I go on? The focus should be on the action, not your power tray.
I just had an awesome T2 match that we lost tonight. It was still hella fun. I am never, ever going back to T5 PvP as it currently stands. Long live T2 PvP.
Lol maybe. But the ridiculous number of powers at T5 still ruins it for me.
In T2, tight builds that synergize their BOFF powers can do amazing things. The difference betrween a pro and a noob in T2 is vast. In T5, everyone has godlike powers no matter how much of an unskilled nub they are.
I want to be able to PvP with my sovereign but it's just no fun. Period. Certainly not as fun as the low tiers.
WAR ran into this same trap. I hope Cryptic finds some sort of solution. I would suggest limiting all players to 4 BOFF powers + 2 personal powers of their choosing in space PvP.
Incidentally, T5 ground PvP is still ok because of the relative lack of powers. I mean, it's as good as ground PvP can be in this game. :rolleyes:
Actually its easy to tell who is nub and who isnt in T5 also. But yes, i much more preferred the slow-paced combat of T2-T3. It felt more tactical.
You mean before the latest fix of critical damage, too?
Because I am currently running a Tier 2 escort. I haven't had that much direct experience in PVP, but in PVE, combat is over extremely fast. In PVP, I play mostly play Kerrat and since I don't like to kill at the spawn point, I mostly engage Borg ships and not Klingon ships during that mission. But even the rare occasions I do engage Klingons, it doesn't seem to last all too long. One of us will be dead quickly.
i found killing players in t2, t3, t4 and now t5 never chaged that much. crusiers have always gone boom and in a short amount of time. I am about to start a new character today (actually to show someone from the federation side how i pvp, choose targets, spot threats etc) so i will no doubt see you there and you can start threads about how unbalanced t2, t3 t4 pvp is vs klingons. Not decided on a name yet, but why not let me know what your character is called and i will be sure to demonstrate that pvp is about the players far more than it is about the powers available.
Federation lack of teamwork and spirit (they aren't there for PvP, they are mainly there to work up Marks of Honor).
Klingons advantage in forward firepower on all but the VoQuv (3-4 cannons, no problem!)
Klingon Negh'vars having slightly more survivability.
BoP's able to combine the leathality of Escorts with Science abilities (deadly combo).
While the Federation Cruisers are virtually floating target hulks that rely on Reverse Shield Polarity. Their Escorts are the only ones that can dish out firepower, and their Science Ships are not so common.
I agree with the OP and seen it (yes, again i mention it) in WARHAMMER also. T4 was boooooooooring, you would in die in seconds or beat on somebody who refused to die at all (sounds familiar right ?)
T1 was fun, T2 was awesome, T3 was getting less fun and T4 and city raids, well...erm.....not really fun anymore. Subscribtion went down, servers closed, we all know the story, total fail. PvP is going that way right now, so yes, i agree with the OP and this has nothing to do with macroing a button, it isn't exiting with the win button combo's and unleasing death in 3 seconds while staring at your ship getting blown up saying WTF JUST HAPPEND and scrolling though your combat log and having no idea what happend and thus not knowing how to counter such an attack. It should be about tactics, ship setups, items, maybe even some skills, but it isn't anymore........
How hard can it be to look at other games and think: oh wait, they did this wrong, or, they did this right and use it in STO ?
I know there are a lott of die-hard PvPers who have wonderfull idea's about how this should be, put them in a PvP council and change the way we have PvP now.
Sorry we aren't going to twink or do Battlgrounds. At least I hope not.
Not sure if twinking is really plausible in this game. Like at Lt. Commander level ... there's no very rare items to be gained at that level (other than Bridge Officers and they don't affect PVP because their "bonuses" are all ground bonuses right now and in ground PVP it's just you, none of your crew ... and oddly enough the one BO space trait available comes from green Saurians, lol).
So it's really just about a smattering of blue items. Which come from war zones and missions so are all readily available. And their base damage is the exact same as every other item in the game.
I think some of the older science consoles that weren't "nerfed" might play a part in twinking, but that's about all I can think of. For the most part gear is rather level at each tier and has a pretty small impact on PVP gameplay.
That being said I'm ambivalent about XP being turned on or off for PVP playability. Not really feeling strong one way or the other. I can understand the people who want this. I see their point. But I'm not all that fired up about it to the point where I have any issue with things staying as they are now.
I thought tiers 2 and 3 were more fun, more star trek like. Thing is, those brackets are nearly dead. Limited character slots combined with STO's stellar image has wrung the towel dry.
Sadly, I have to admit, I'm not enjoying T5 PvP either. My Neg'Var doesn't seem to be any match for the Feds, that seem way too OP.
Don't give me the L2P TRIBBLE, I've been playing since Open Beta, through each tier you get a feel for how balance is, and sadly in T5, it's the Feds that seem to have the advantage.
T1 - Agreed, Klinks advantage
T2 - WRONG - Feds have definite OP advantage
T3 - WRONG - Must be relatively balanced, I didn't notice out of balance
T4 - WRONG - same as T3
T5 - WRONG - Feds have definite OP advantage
Sadly, I have to admit, I'm not enjoying T5 PvP either. My Neg'Var doesn't seem to be any match for the Feds, that seem way too OP.
Don't give me the L2P TRIBBLE, I've been playing since Open Beta, through each tier you get a feel for how balance is, and sadly in T5, it's the Feds that seem to have the advantage.
i don't find it to be so, not saying your experience is not valid for you, just mine is not the same. i have started to lose a few more games, but that is a mix of factors not OP fed ships.
I had the misfortune to sit through a golf tips dvd at my fathers birthday, came as part of a gift i guess, anyway the pro did make one interesting point. He said if you always find you slice the ball, yet you always approach the shot in the same old way, you will get the same old result. If something isn't working you need to make a change. I appreciate you have been playing since OB, but tbh lengh of time will not make you a good pvp'er if you continue to use the exact same style of play, build etc that has not been working for you. Doing something wrong for months will not suddenly turn into something right, well unles you get thme to alter the game to match what you are doing.
i don't find it to be so, not saying your experience is not valid for you, just mine is not the same. i have started to lose a few more games, but that is a mix of factors not OP fed ships.
I had the misfortune to sit through a golf tips dvd at my fathers birthday, came as part of a gift i guess, anyway the pro did make one interesting point. He said if you always find you slice the ball, yet you always approach the shot in the same old way, you will get the same old result. If something isn't working you need to make a change. I appreciate you have been playing since OB, but tbh lengh of time will not make you a good pvp'er if you continue to use the exact same style of play, build etc that has not been working for you. Doing something wrong for months will not suddenly turn into something right, well unles you get thme to alter the game to match what you are doing.
As obvious as this point is, it's still a bit of a wake up call. Maybe this is where I'm falling short. I've been operating under the basic assumption that I'm doing it wrong and need to try harder. Maybe, sadly, I'm doing it right and it just doesn't work like I feel it should, lol.
Comments
an example
Offencive powerups 3456
Offencive disablers ctrl+1234
Defencive powers zxcvfgrt
Can be setup to your specifications
Don't have brace of impact good keybound tho.
In T2, tight builds that synergize their BOFF powers can do amazing things. The difference betrween a pro and a noob in T2 is vast. In T5, everyone has godlike powers no matter how much of an unskilled nub they are.
I want to be able to PvP with my sovereign but it's just no fun. Period. Certainly not as fun as the low tiers.
WAR ran into this same trap. I hope Cryptic finds some sort of solution. I would suggest limiting all players to 4 BOFF powers + 2 personal powers of their choosing in space PvP.
Incidentally, T5 ground PvP is still ok because of the relative lack of powers. I mean, it's as good as ground PvP can be in this game. :rolleyes:
Because I am currently running a Tier 2 escort. I haven't had that much direct experience in PVP, but in PVE, combat is over extremely fast. In PVP, I play mostly play Kerrat and since I don't like to kill at the spawn point, I mostly engage Borg ships and not Klingon ships during that mission. But even the rare occasions I do engage Klingons, it doesn't seem to last all too long. One of us will be dead quickly.
Possibly we could change something like lower shield/hull regeneration but higher shield/hull hit points
Halving tactiical energy consoles would do alot better job. Would improve torps and mines a bit also, in the bigger picture.
Tier 2: Best PvP, because it's fairly balanced.
Tier 3: Favor Klingons.
Tier 4: Favor Klingons more.
Tier 5: Really favor Klingons
Why?
While the Federation Cruisers are virtually floating target hulks that rely on Reverse Shield Polarity. Their Escorts are the only ones that can dish out firepower, and their Science Ships are not so common.
T1 was fun, T2 was awesome, T3 was getting less fun and T4 and city raids, well...erm.....not really fun anymore. Subscribtion went down, servers closed, we all know the story, total fail. PvP is going that way right now, so yes, i agree with the OP and this has nothing to do with macroing a button, it isn't exiting with the win button combo's and unleasing death in 3 seconds while staring at your ship getting blown up saying WTF JUST HAPPEND and scrolling though your combat log and having no idea what happend and thus not knowing how to counter such an attack. It should be about tactics, ship setups, items, maybe even some skills, but it isn't anymore........
How hard can it be to look at other games and think: oh wait, they did this wrong, or, they did this right and use it in STO ?
I know there are a lott of die-hard PvPers who have wonderfull idea's about how this should be, put them in a PvP council and change the way we have PvP now.
Sorry we aren't going to twink or do Battlgrounds. At least I hope not.
Not sure if twinking is really plausible in this game. Like at Lt. Commander level ... there's no very rare items to be gained at that level (other than Bridge Officers and they don't affect PVP because their "bonuses" are all ground bonuses right now and in ground PVP it's just you, none of your crew ... and oddly enough the one BO space trait available comes from green Saurians, lol).
So it's really just about a smattering of blue items. Which come from war zones and missions so are all readily available. And their base damage is the exact same as every other item in the game.
I think some of the older science consoles that weren't "nerfed" might play a part in twinking, but that's about all I can think of. For the most part gear is rather level at each tier and has a pretty small impact on PVP gameplay.
That being said I'm ambivalent about XP being turned on or off for PVP playability. Not really feeling strong one way or the other. I can understand the people who want this. I see their point. But I'm not all that fired up about it to the point where I have any issue with things staying as they are now.
This is not a balancing issue. This is an idiocy issue.
Don't give me the L2P TRIBBLE, I've been playing since Open Beta, through each tier you get a feel for how balance is, and sadly in T5, it's the Feds that seem to have the advantage.
T1 - Agreed, Klinks advantage
T2 - WRONG - Feds have definite OP advantage
T3 - WRONG - Must be relatively balanced, I didn't notice out of balance
T4 - WRONG - same as T3
T5 - WRONG - Feds have definite OP advantage
i don't find it to be so, not saying your experience is not valid for you, just mine is not the same. i have started to lose a few more games, but that is a mix of factors not OP fed ships.
I had the misfortune to sit through a golf tips dvd at my fathers birthday, came as part of a gift i guess, anyway the pro did make one interesting point. He said if you always find you slice the ball, yet you always approach the shot in the same old way, you will get the same old result. If something isn't working you need to make a change. I appreciate you have been playing since OB, but tbh lengh of time will not make you a good pvp'er if you continue to use the exact same style of play, build etc that has not been working for you. Doing something wrong for months will not suddenly turn into something right, well unles you get thme to alter the game to match what you are doing.
As obvious as this point is, it's still a bit of a wake up call. Maybe this is where I'm falling short. I've been operating under the basic assumption that I'm doing it wrong and need to try harder. Maybe, sadly, I'm doing it right and it just doesn't work like I feel it should, lol.