*pewpewpew*
*massive broadsides fail to DENT the Klink carrier*
*pewpewpew*
*Birds of Prey take down my Cruisers shields in 2 seconds*
*pewpewpew*
*Hull is gone in 4 seconds*
*Klinks winning*
The pattern is ? that you are new to pvp and your team lacked coordination ?
You must be new to STO and your thinking process has failed to see the big picture; if so much is wrong with STO why would you think the PvP factions would be balanced.
You won with the Klinks because The average klink is good, and the average Fed is bad.
You Lost as Fed because the average Klink is good, and the average Fed is bad...
If you want to win:Play Klink
If you want to get better: Play Fed
Otherwise complain on the forums.
I'm a fed and I got owned in pvp at first, then I made a new character and decided to get to admiral with only pvp to see what it was like for the Klinks. I now do massive damage and healing and my team wins as long as there is some somewhat decent people on the team. I LEARNED, not COMPLAINED.
Honestly, I've found that it seems like much a higher percentage of KDF players will just leave the match if it goes badly than Feds. I rarely see Feds leave a match when its going badly, but if a match is going badly for the KDF, you can almost guarantee one or more will quit. Feds are used to losing, maybe even expect to lose, but if the coin gets flipped, a lot of KDF players just can't take the heat and will simply quit.
Honestly, I've found that it seems like much a higher percentage of KDF players will just leave the match if it goes badly than Feds. I rarely see Feds leave a match when its going badly, but if a match is going badly for the KDF, you can almost guarantee one or more will quit. Feds are used to losing, maybe even expect to lose, but if the coin gets flipped, a lot of KDF players just can't take the heat and will simply quit.
I don't have extensive PVP experience but this is more of what I've seen as well. In fact, it's frustrating to see just how often we Feds will simply suicide to get it over with. Leaving doesn't do anything for us and in the past it has tended to take long for us to get into matches.
You always ought to stay when outnumbered, in my view, simply because whilst you mght get endlessly killed it's only a few minutes out of your life and you are at least providing target practise for the opposition. If everyone bugged out when they saw the wind was against them PvP would die, and I don't want that.
Some serious thought applied to PvP by Cryptic wouldn't go amiss - ie watch some real PvP battles (quite a lot of them in fact), record the combat logs for number crunching if needed, and with sufficient data it ought to be possible to see if their are imbalances that need to be addressed. Maybe then people wouldn't feel the need to bail. Even the numbers up too - 2 of us (klink) v 5 feds for a while yesterday, for example, wasn't that much fun but having had a few matches where the feds were really torn apart it seemed fair to stick around to be shot down for a while.
*pewpewpew*
*massive broadsides fail to DENT the Klink carrier*
I don't know what you are flying but I suggest that you visit the forum section dealing with your ship of choice and see if you can improve it.
I love the posts that insist (in the way that only teenage boys can) that the Klingons are better than Starfleet. Do I undego brain surgery when I switch sides?
I learned the basics as a fed, I learned to pvp as a Klink. Simple, they co-ordinate more readily, the help each other more willingly, they level in pvp and that means they want the match over and your sorry carcasses dead asap so they can get to the next match and carry on levelling.
If Klingons had the same level of PvE content, would they win as often as they do? No.
If every match was premade both sides would they win as much? No.
If Feds levelled the same way Klingons do, would they lose as often? No.
Spotting the pattern here?
Everyone yells about imbalance, of course there is, but it's not equipment it's culture.
You won with the Klinks because The average klink is good, and the average Fed is bad.
You Lost as Fed because the average Klink is good, and the average Fed is bad...
If you want to win:Play Klink
If you want to get better: Play Fed
Otherwise complain on the forums.
I'm a fed and I got owned in pvp at first, then I made a new character and decided to get to admiral with only pvp to see what it was like for the Klinks. I now do massive damage and healing and my team wins as long as there is some somewhat decent people on the team. I LEARNED, not COMPLAINED.
Your assessment has all the markings of a wow kiddie comparing horde to alliance. There are plenty of good federation players who pvp, in fact the average for both is just that, average.
As a owner of a RA5 and BG5, the later of which did many KvK pvp I can tell you the pvp game content is as broken and lackluster in design as the pve content. No amount of fanboism can alter the truth of this.
I learned the basics as a fed, I learned to pvp as a Klink. Simple, they co-ordinate more readily, the help each other more willingly, they level in pvp and that means they want the match over and your sorry carcasses dead asap so they can get to the next match and carry on levelling.
If Klingons had the same level of PvE content, would they win as often as they do? No.
If every match was premade both sides would they win as much? No.
If Feds levelled the same way Klingons do, would they lose as often? No.
Spotting the pattern here?
Everyone yells about imbalance, of course there is, but it's not equipment it's culture.
Well I have come from a long line of MMO's that all I ever did was pvp in them. I brought that experience with me to STO. It does appear to me that Fed are only interested in the kills. Kills don't win the game in Salvage Operations, holding space does. In Arena space kills win the game.
Of course any out numbered matches can cause a win or lose on either side. Sometimes the Klingons can be out numbered by as many as 4 players and win the game. Not always though. What will happen where a large salvage operation is Fed heavy ended in players the game will run longer because we have a more even team with less Klingon's and more Feds. Many games I am in when fed have 4 more players than Klingon's the game takes much longer.
Then there are the fed complainers in the run because Klingon's are down 4 people it is our fault that the game is taking longer because Feds are there for the kills and the klingons are out numbered and are having a hard time holding space in salvage operations. If at that moment the feds would start holding more space or even some space at all the game would then move faster.
Sometimes the blame is really the ones complaining about the blame.
Or better yet, the Feds asking the Klingon's to surrender the game, well that's not going to happen and we run the game down until we lose fair and square.
Your assessment has all the markings of a wow kiddie comparing horde to alliance. There are plenty of good federation players who pvp, in fact the average for both is just that, average.
As a owner of a RA5 and BG5, the later of which did many KvK pvp I can tell you the pvp game content is as broken and lackluster in design as the pve content. No amount of fanboism can alter the truth of this.
Actually, never played WoW in my life. I believe that if there is an advantage, it can be overcome by skill, so I learned, If my teams wins, it's usually because I carry them becasue they are not as experienced. If Fed's pvped more they would be better. It's more about practice and teamwork. I don't see where the pvp is broken (besides the queue system). It's just experienced vs. non-experienced. Feds can easily beat Klinks if they are better. http://s930.photobucket.com/albums/ad146/Luepert/?action=view¤t=STOSSPVP1.jpg
Your assessment has all the markings of a wow kiddie comparing horde to alliance. There are plenty of good federation players who pvp, in fact the average for both is just that, average.
As a owner of a RA5 and BG5, the later of which did many KvK pvp I can tell you the pvp game content is as broken and lackluster in design as the pve content. No amount of fanboism can alter the truth of this.
I still that the experience with PvP is relevant and a benefit for Klingons. But imbalances will probably rarely be admitted by the "winning" side if they exist. I mean, who would want to readily admit and accept that it's not his superior skills and rather this superior ship?
The funny thing about pvp in this game is the defense abilities are nerfed and the attack abilities can stack. This causes the whole I am weaker than you scenario that makes people believe something needs to be nerfed. Perhaps something does need a nerf, however, since in all of Star Trek Cloak is a basic trait of Klingon's and Romulan's for that matter and not of Star Fleet. Why would STO nerf it?
The feds whole nerf cloak is like the World of Warcraft Alliance asking Shaman to be nerfed. Blizzard never did listen to the Alliance until after they gave alliance the Shaman....... So while you want to see cloak nerfed down the line you may get cloak and then Cryptic will nerf it and yet again you will be complaining about Cloak.
There are a tremendous amount of good Fed teams out there that can win every pvp match out there against the klingon's and bet they would tell you Cloak is a minor issue in their strategy.
Honestly, I've found that it seems like much a higher percentage of KDF players will just leave the match if it goes badly than Feds. I rarely see Feds leave a match when its going badly, but if a match is going badly for the KDF, you can almost guarantee one or more will quit. Feds are used to losing, maybe even expect to lose, but if the coin gets flipped, a lot of KDF players just can't take the heat and will simply quit.
Not sure I agree with this - there are quitters on both sides and the reasons are not always obvious.
I know one thing, in an uneven match it is a lot easier for a Klingon to leave than a Fed. The Klingon ques are much shorter, and it is much easier for the Klingon to find a more balanced game quickly than it is for a Fed.
It is an inequality, and it sucks, but it is hard to ask a player to spend a great deal of time in an unbalanced match when they can easily find a better match to play quickly.
I don't fault players for leaving matches. There are many possible reasons for it, and unless the reason is stated, we can only assume the reasons and assuming the rational of other players can be a fine line towards insanity.
Not sure I agree with this - there are quitters on both sides and the reasons are not always obvious.
I know one thing, in an uneven match it is a lot easier for a Klingon to leave than a Fed. The Klingon ques are much shorter, and it is much easier for the Klingon to find a more balanced game quickly than it is for a Fed.
It is an inequality, and it sucks, but it is hard to ask a player to spend a great deal of time in an unbalanced match when they can easily find a better match to play quickly.
I don't fault players for leaving matches. There are many possible reasons for it, and unless the reason is stated, we can only assume the reasons and assuming the rational of other players can be a fine line towards insanity.
dark you brting up some valid points here bud . However I think feds have really fast ques now as well I usually get 10+ game sin a night where before i would be lucky to get 3. I think quitters on both sides (not LD or family emergency type stuff just "we are losing I quit) need to be buffed with a deserter buff so no queing for some time.
Its usually the same type of players that do those things too. The same ones that call people exploiters and hackers in zonechat when they do not understand how to beat the enemy.
Not sure I agree with this - there are quitters on both sides and the reasons are not always obvious.
I know one thing, in an uneven match it is a lot easier for a Klingon to leave than a Fed. The Klingon ques are much shorter, and it is much easier for the Klingon to find a more balanced game quickly than it is for a Fed.
It is an inequality, and it sucks, but it is hard to ask a player to spend a great deal of time in an unbalanced match when they can easily find a better match to play quickly.
I don't fault players for leaving matches. There are many possible reasons for it, and unless the reason is stated, we can only assume the reasons and assuming the rational of other players can be a fine line towards insanity.
I have left a game before when I have started to fall asleep because it is late at night. I have left a game before when someone has come to the door and it has taken more time than 15 minutes to answer their question such as a family member coming over. I haven't left a single game because we have been losing the game. You get points regardless if you win or lose. Unless I am doing the daily pvping is all I do for enjoyment in STO because after the dailies there's nothing to do in the game but PvP.
I am on my 3rd. character I am tired of making characters.
im definately not new to space pvp and i did stacks of it in swg
and i have been trying out the kilnk side to see if theres a difference
well one your ships are better than fed ships way overpowered and more manoevarable
2 i have been also doing wargames as a klink against klinks and in my starter ship i can bam 3 levels above me and hardly take any damage
you cant do this on fed side beleive me
so i say nerf the klinks ships and nerf that pesky cloak
stop the pvp ganking and make the pvp into a decent game say one on one battles then we would see who the better player was
Now I thought this was funny. You are talking about a "starter" ship. I will agree with you the starter ship is better than the Miranda class....that is just a horrible ship in pvp. However, I say to you this. Level your "Klingon" past that of the starter ship. The higher you go, the faster things change and balance out. Just wait until that fantastic moment of having an escort behind you, and before you can say "WTF" you are a flaming spaceball ready for respawn. Or my other personal favorites, tractor beam and the white bubble of doom, or VM/CPB/white bubble of doom, or even just the white bubble of doom. To make a comparison of the "starter" ships is just laughable.:rolleyes:
dark you brting up some valid points here bud . However I think feds have really fast ques now as well I usually get 10+ game sin a night where before i would be lucky to get 3. I think quitters on both sides (not LD or family emergency type stuff just "we are losing I quit) need to be buffed with a deserter buff so no queing for some time.
Its usually the same type of players that do those things too. The same ones that call people exploiters and hackers in zonechat when they do not understand how to beat the enemy.
Right now you can't queue back to another say Salvage when you leave it, until you either log off or that game ends. So a deserter would really help deter quitting.
Well I have come from a long line of MMO's that all I ever did was pvp in them. I brought that experience with me to STO. It does appear to me that Fed are only interested in the kills. Kills don't win the game in Salvage Operations, holding space does. In Arena space kills win the game.
Ah, wasn;t exactly clear on what i meant there.
I meant more the prevalent attitude.
Most feds I've noticed have a tendency to pick a target and steam in all guns blazing. Youkill em they come back and do it again you kill em again they repeat or quit.
Or they fedball up and don't co-ordinate properly, you break the ball and they go back to steaming in.
Whereas the vast majority of klingon games, you join you invite to team or get invited to a team and then have a more ordered game in order to get 15 kills fast and then win.
Thats the difference I was attempting to describe.
Another "Klingons are too OP!" thread...:rolleyes:
In my experiance of playing since the BETA I've seen plenty of really good Fed teams, and plenty of bad ones.
Feds teams that co-operate, heal and support each other are very tough to beat, if you can beat them at all. And they can blow a ship apart in mere seconds...hmm..where have I heard that before...
But teams that constantly attack a similiar group of 5 Klingons 1 or 2 at a time will be continually atomized quickly.
The same goes for both sides. I've been in plenty of PvP fights where ya got 1 or 2 that just won't group or sometimes won't even team when invited and cost the Klingons the match because they are continually stupid.
I've had matches where one player could cost us as much as 8-10 kills alone because of the way they ran into a group of Feds alone over and over.
Teamwork is the key, using your Captain and BO abilities for the good of the team rather than just yourself will make a huge difference no matter what side you're on.
I myself have retrained some skills just because it offers a group or AOE buff/debuff vs a singular effect on just me or 1 enemy.
Be more of a team player and you might even have more fun. :cool:
OP why were you firing on the carrier with bop's nearby? It seems that maybe you need more experience fighting as a team. I bet the kilnks that won started with the escorts and targeted them when ever possible.
Honestly, I've found that it seems like much a higher percentage of KDF players will just leave the match if it goes badly than Feds. I rarely see Feds leave a match when its going badly, but if a match is going badly for the KDF, you can almost guarantee one or more will quit.
I don't know how much of this is going on but if it is then this is because of the waiting times. The queues for PvP usually have a high number of Feds waiting to get in with very little Klinks waiting. So Klinks can just drop out of any PvP and then jump back in to another one quickly. Since Feds have been waiting so long to get in they usually play a bad match anyways just to get credit for it and not have to wait forever for the next match.
At least FvF has helped with waiting times, but as we feared it now seems that FvK matches take even longer to get into.
*pewpewpew*
*massive broadsides fail to DENT the Klink carrier*
*pewpewpew*
*Birds of Prey take down my Cruisers shields in 2 seconds*
*pewpewpew*
*Hull is gone in 4 seconds*
*Klinks winning*
***
Cryptic, you notice a pattern here?
Pattern I see here is that you failed to learn from the Klingons.
Pattern I see here is that you failed to learn from the Klingons.
Pattern I see here is that you failed to learn from the Klingons.
Comments
You must be new to STO and your thinking process has failed to see the big picture; if so much is wrong with STO why would you think the PvP factions would be balanced.
Oh, you thought you were that good.
You Lost as Fed because the average Klink is good, and the average Fed is bad...
If you want to win:Play Klink
If you want to get better: Play Fed
Otherwise complain on the forums.
I'm a fed and I got owned in pvp at first, then I made a new character and decided to get to admiral with only pvp to see what it was like for the Klinks. I now do massive damage and healing and my team wins as long as there is some somewhat decent people on the team. I LEARNED, not COMPLAINED.
I don't have extensive PVP experience but this is more of what I've seen as well. In fact, it's frustrating to see just how often we Feds will simply suicide to get it over with. Leaving doesn't do anything for us and in the past it has tended to take long for us to get into matches.
Some serious thought applied to PvP by Cryptic wouldn't go amiss - ie watch some real PvP battles (quite a lot of them in fact), record the combat logs for number crunching if needed, and with sufficient data it ought to be possible to see if their are imbalances that need to be addressed. Maybe then people wouldn't feel the need to bail. Even the numbers up too - 2 of us (klink) v 5 feds for a while yesterday, for example, wasn't that much fun but having had a few matches where the feds were really torn apart it seemed fair to stick around to be shot down for a while.
I love the posts that insist (in the way that only teenage boys can) that the Klingons are better than Starfleet. Do I undego brain surgery when I switch sides?
Feds play for the kills.
I learned the basics as a fed, I learned to pvp as a Klink. Simple, they co-ordinate more readily, the help each other more willingly, they level in pvp and that means they want the match over and your sorry carcasses dead asap so they can get to the next match and carry on levelling.
If Klingons had the same level of PvE content, would they win as often as they do? No.
If every match was premade both sides would they win as much? No.
If Feds levelled the same way Klingons do, would they lose as often? No.
Spotting the pattern here?
Everyone yells about imbalance, of course there is, but it's not equipment it's culture.
Your assessment has all the markings of a wow kiddie comparing horde to alliance. There are plenty of good federation players who pvp, in fact the average for both is just that, average.
As a owner of a RA5 and BG5, the later of which did many KvK pvp I can tell you the pvp game content is as broken and lackluster in design as the pve content. No amount of fanboism can alter the truth of this.
Of course any out numbered matches can cause a win or lose on either side. Sometimes the Klingons can be out numbered by as many as 4 players and win the game. Not always though. What will happen where a large salvage operation is Fed heavy ended in players the game will run longer because we have a more even team with less Klingon's and more Feds. Many games I am in when fed have 4 more players than Klingon's the game takes much longer.
Then there are the fed complainers in the run because Klingon's are down 4 people it is our fault that the game is taking longer because Feds are there for the kills and the klingons are out numbered and are having a hard time holding space in salvage operations. If at that moment the feds would start holding more space or even some space at all the game would then move faster.
Sometimes the blame is really the ones complaining about the blame.
Or better yet, the Feds asking the Klingon's to surrender the game, well that's not going to happen and we run the game down until we lose fair and square.
Actually, never played WoW in my life. I believe that if there is an advantage, it can be overcome by skill, so I learned, If my teams wins, it's usually because I carry them becasue they are not as experienced. If Fed's pvped more they would be better. It's more about practice and teamwork. I don't see where the pvp is broken (besides the queue system). It's just experienced vs. non-experienced. Feds can easily beat Klinks if they are better.
http://s930.photobucket.com/albums/ad146/Luepert/?action=view¤t=STOSSPVP1.jpg
and i have been trying out the kilnk side to see if theres a difference
well one your ships are better than fed ships way overpowered and more manoevarable
2 i have been also doing wargames as a klink against klinks and in my starter ship i can bam 3 levels above me and hardly take any damage
you cant do this on fed side beleive me
so i say nerf the klinks ships and nerf that pesky cloak
stop the pvp ganking and make the pvp into a decent game say one on one battles then we would see who the better player was
I still that the experience with PvP is relevant and a benefit for Klingons. But imbalances will probably rarely be admitted by the "winning" side if they exist. I mean, who would want to readily admit and accept that it's not his superior skills and rather this superior ship?
The feds whole nerf cloak is like the World of Warcraft Alliance asking Shaman to be nerfed. Blizzard never did listen to the Alliance until after they gave alliance the Shaman....... So while you want to see cloak nerfed down the line you may get cloak and then Cryptic will nerf it and yet again you will be complaining about Cloak.
There are a tremendous amount of good Fed teams out there that can win every pvp match out there against the klingon's and bet they would tell you Cloak is a minor issue in their strategy.
Not sure I agree with this - there are quitters on both sides and the reasons are not always obvious.
I know one thing, in an uneven match it is a lot easier for a Klingon to leave than a Fed. The Klingon ques are much shorter, and it is much easier for the Klingon to find a more balanced game quickly than it is for a Fed.
It is an inequality, and it sucks, but it is hard to ask a player to spend a great deal of time in an unbalanced match when they can easily find a better match to play quickly.
I don't fault players for leaving matches. There are many possible reasons for it, and unless the reason is stated, we can only assume the reasons and assuming the rational of other players can be a fine line towards insanity.
dark you brting up some valid points here bud . However I think feds have really fast ques now as well I usually get 10+ game sin a night where before i would be lucky to get 3. I think quitters on both sides (not LD or family emergency type stuff just "we are losing I quit) need to be buffed with a deserter buff so no queing for some time.
Its usually the same type of players that do those things too. The same ones that call people exploiters and hackers in zonechat when they do not understand how to beat the enemy.
I have left a game before when I have started to fall asleep because it is late at night. I have left a game before when someone has come to the door and it has taken more time than 15 minutes to answer their question such as a family member coming over. I haven't left a single game because we have been losing the game. You get points regardless if you win or lose. Unless I am doing the daily pvping is all I do for enjoyment in STO because after the dailies there's nothing to do in the game but PvP.
I am on my 3rd. character I am tired of making characters.
Now I thought this was funny. You are talking about a "starter" ship. I will agree with you the starter ship is better than the Miranda class....that is just a horrible ship in pvp. However, I say to you this. Level your "Klingon" past that of the starter ship. The higher you go, the faster things change and balance out. Just wait until that fantastic moment of having an escort behind you, and before you can say "WTF" you are a flaming spaceball ready for respawn. Or my other personal favorites, tractor beam and the white bubble of doom, or VM/CPB/white bubble of doom, or even just the white bubble of doom. To make a comparison of the "starter" ships is just laughable.:rolleyes:
Ah, wasn;t exactly clear on what i meant there.
I meant more the prevalent attitude.
Most feds I've noticed have a tendency to pick a target and steam in all guns blazing. Youkill em they come back and do it again you kill em again they repeat or quit.
Or they fedball up and don't co-ordinate properly, you break the ball and they go back to steaming in.
Whereas the vast majority of klingon games, you join you invite to team or get invited to a team and then have a more ordered game in order to get 15 kills fast and then win.
Thats the difference I was attempting to describe.
You took me a little too literally, my bad.
In my experiance of playing since the BETA I've seen plenty of really good Fed teams, and plenty of bad ones.
Feds teams that co-operate, heal and support each other are very tough to beat, if you can beat them at all. And they can blow a ship apart in mere seconds...hmm..where have I heard that before...
But teams that constantly attack a similiar group of 5 Klingons 1 or 2 at a time will be continually atomized quickly.
The same goes for both sides. I've been in plenty of PvP fights where ya got 1 or 2 that just won't group or sometimes won't even team when invited and cost the Klingons the match because they are continually stupid.
I've had matches where one player could cost us as much as 8-10 kills alone because of the way they ran into a group of Feds alone over and over.
Teamwork is the key, using your Captain and BO abilities for the good of the team rather than just yourself will make a huge difference no matter what side you're on.
I myself have retrained some skills just because it offers a group or AOE buff/debuff vs a singular effect on just me or 1 enemy.
Be more of a team player and you might even have more fun. :cool:
I don't know how much of this is going on but if it is then this is because of the waiting times. The queues for PvP usually have a high number of Feds waiting to get in with very little Klinks waiting. So Klinks can just drop out of any PvP and then jump back in to another one quickly. Since Feds have been waiting so long to get in they usually play a bad match anyways just to get credit for it and not have to wait forever for the next match.
At least FvF has helped with waiting times, but as we feared it now seems that FvK matches take even longer to get into.
Pattern I see here is that you failed to learn from the Klingons.
Pattern I see here is that you failed to learn from the Klingons.
Pattern I see here is that you failed to learn from the Klingons.
Gorn have no females ... Andorians have 4 sexes.
The math ... it doesn't add up!