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PvP is not even fun anymore

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited April 2010 in PvP Gameplay
I respecced yesterday like most others to an escort build. I already had MK X cannons since I actually had leveled as an escort. I pick up my necessary BOFF skills such as CRF 2 and 1 along with APB and HYT 2.

I head into my first PUG PvP match and end up getting a score of 22 and 1 along with some 400k+ damage. And the trend has continued ever since in fact the worst I have done is 10 and 2. Simply put escort DPS or rather dual heavy/dual cannon rapid fire DPS is so out of control it makes PvP trivial. No longer am I worried about having abilities to counter other players heck I hardly worry about survivability at all since I stay with the group. People stacking RSP are not even a problem since I can kill them with bleed through damage. And even though I am doing so "good" in pvp it is not even remotely fun my opponents have no chance there is no thrill or excitement.

Is anyone else feeling this way? I am only logging on anymore to do dailies now since PvP has become such a drag.

The tribble change to shields will not even be enough to fix this problem.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Keep in mind that most Feds aren't PvPers.

    It will take the PvE'rs much longer to adjust to the new changes.

    Also remember that you're more fragile now too when you're targeted.


    I agree though the Cannon damage is a bit on the high side.

    Especially for BoP's that are Tactical ships that can spam Sci.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Yes, PVP sucks with damage the way it is. Defenses are pretty much useless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    I respecced yesterday like most others to an escort build. I already had MK X cannons since I actually had leveled as an escort. I pick up my necessary BOFF skills such as CRF 2 and 1 along with APB and HYT 2.

    I head into my first PUG PvP match and end up getting a score of 22 and 1 along with some 400k+ damage. And the trend has continued ever since in fact the worst I have done is 10 and 2. Simply put escort DPS or rather dual heavy/dual cannon rapid fire DPS is so out of control it makes PvP trivial. No longer am I worried about having abilities to counter other players heck I hardly worry about survivability at all since I stay with the group. People stacking RSP are not even a problem since I can kill them with bleed through damage. And even though I am doing so "good" in pvp it is not even remotely fun my opponents have no chance there is no thrill or excitement.

    Is anyone else feeling this way? I am only logging on anymore to do dailies now since PvP has become such a drag.

    The tribble change to shields will not even be enough to fix this problem.

    Playing against people that know what they are doing will dramatically reduce your leetness. One Jam sensor and you can be killed before it's over. One well timed tractor beam, sub nuke, viral matrix... etc etc. List goes on, very easy to kill an escort/bop.

    But a good captain can pop on someone and destroy them rather fast if everything is up. If you are one of the people that only fight at 100%, every timer up, try staying in the fight, gets alot more exciting. Do not hit the full engine evasive battery move and wait.

    The problem lies at the other end of the internet connection on the keyboard. Not the game.

    Try going 50+ and 5 , instead of worrying about dying. Over a mil dmg etc...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    God I hate people that always think because they know a few tricks that they are elite and get to act like anyone that hasn't learned those tricks is just a noob with no skills. Its not freaking rocket science and you are not uber because you play a video game.

    Cannons are to powerful, just like FBP which is getting fixed. Just like VM which can hold for way to long.

    All mmo pvp needs to have a balance that keeps people interested and all mmo companies know it. So you will see changes and they might not all be what you think or what you like but it will happen and then those that abuse OP powers or combos will complain for a while and then adjust or move on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Yea, cannons are way too powerful right now, and in general the DPS gap in this game is wider than the grand canyon. The difference in DPS between a support ship running aux and an escort running weapons is litterally a factor of 20 or greater.

    I don't know exactly what Cryptic was thinking, maybe Phasers on a science ship running aux are supposed to the equivalent of a wizard hitting an enemy with his stick or sometrhing. But then again, in every game with wizards their spells do huge damage... Science abilities can't kill anything, except for Feedback Pulse which is getting nerfed and rightly so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Andor wrote: »
    God I hate people that always think because they know a few tricks that they are elite and get to act like anyone that hasn't learned those tricks is just a noob with no skills. Its not freaking rocket science and you are not uber because you play a video game.

    Cannons are to powerful, just like FBP which is getting fixed. Just like VM which can hold for way to long.

    Did you even read the OP? He's saying exactly that Escorts have become unbalanced recently.

    Seriously, try reading posts instead of looking for key words to give you an excuse to go off on someone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Rothnang wrote:
    Yea, cannons are way too powerful right now, and in general the DPS gap in this game is wider than the grand canyon. The difference in DPS between a support ship running aux and an escort running weapons is litterally a factor of 20 or greater.

    I don't know exactly what Cryptic was thinking, maybe Phasers on a science ship running aux are supposed to the equivalent of a wizard hitting an enemy with his stick or sometrhing. But then again, in every game with wizards their spells do huge damage... Science abilities can't kill anything, except for Feedback Pulse which is getting nerfed and rightly so.

    Yep my thoughts exactly how come none of the science abilities cause any real fear they are all feel gimmicky at best. (Besides VM and SNB).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ninjaboy wrote: »
    Keep in mind that most Feds aren't PvPers.

    It will take the PvE'rs much longer to adjust to the new changes.

    Also remember that you're more fragile now too when you're targeted.


    I agree though the Cannon damage is a bit on the high side.

    Especially for BoP's that are Tactical ships that can spam Sci.

    This whole Fed carebear excuse is just bologna.There are plenty of very good fed pvp'ers. I play both sides, and when it comes to pugs its that poorly designed queue system that decides the winner of the match for the most part.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Freeport wrote:
    Did you even read the OP? He's saying exactly that Escorts have become unbalanced recently.

    Seriously, try reading posts instead of looking for key words to give you an excuse to go off on someone.

    Did you read the post just above mine, because that was what i was responding to.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    I respecced yesterday like most others to an escort build. I already had MK X cannons since I actually had leveled as an escort. I pick up my necessary BOFF skills such as CRF 2 and 1 along with APB and HYT 2.

    I head into my first PUG PvP match and end up getting a score of 22 and 1 along with some 400k+ damage. And the trend has continued ever since in fact the worst I have done is 10 and 2. Simply put escort DPS or rather dual heavy/dual cannon rapid fire DPS is so out of control it makes PvP trivial. No longer am I worried about having abilities to counter other players heck I hardly worry about survivability at all since I stay with the group. People stacking RSP are not even a problem since I can kill them with bleed through damage. And even though I am doing so "good" in pvp it is not even remotely fun my opponents have no chance there is no thrill or excitement.

    Is anyone else feeling this way? I am only logging on anymore to do dailies now since PvP has become such a drag.

    The tribble change to shields will not even be enough to fix this problem.

    THe FBP fix comming up will greatly reset the balance. Cannon weapons will also bounce back at the attacker and in an escort that wont be fun.
    Thrax73 wrote:
    This whole Fed carebear excuse is just bologna.There are plenty of very good fed pvp'ers. I play both sides, and when it comes to pugs its that poorly designed queue system that decides the winner of the match for the most part.

    I agree with you. Ive gone against Fed premades that are awsome.

    I do think however the que is much better now. At least the feds are all in the match by the time we get over there. I think our pug groups are better PvPers, alot of times we dont group up and we still toss heals and sience teams when we see someone VMed on each other.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    the only issue aint our cannon, its the way we can scale up our damage with 4000 atack buffs

    anyway, we need to do damage, , vs skilled premade, if you are focused, you are nearly useless
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    yes, i agree
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'd prefer a slightly slower more strategic space combat experience myself. When one well timed volley can completely wipe an opponent from the map that doesn't seem too fun to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    regardless of "skill" or experience, the team fitted with more escorts has got far more chances to succeed. Escorts deal heavy damage, really don't take this much damage thanks to maneuverability and they can leave effective weapon range in an blink of an eye. Like some kind of arcade game, fly in, pew pew, respawn, okay, next map. Cruiser pilots and science ships trying to compensate focused damage on one teammate (if there is a team in the first place) will more often fail than succeed. TSS, alpha strike damage amplifier stuff...cruiser gone in about 4 seconds. Forced to use RSP (in case your shields are working anyways) the support ability Extend Shields is useless. Even with engineering team III (about 16k hull repair and 50% damage resistance buff) some cruisers will die. There are ways to survive, yes, but your team has to be coordinated. Escorts don't need teaming to deal massive damage...
    As long as there is this kind of gameplay, there will be players who don't see any fun in pvp anyway. There are hints for pvp in numerous threads, naming the important team aspect. But commonly you'll join an arena unteamed, maybe finding yourself somewhere else than the rest of your "team" not teamed at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The fun in pvp is to test various setups and abilities, doing pvp for 2 days to get another reset, than find a bug or really screwed ability..and to waste another weekend pvping for another reset...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    The fun in pvp is to test various setups and abilities, doing pvp for 2 days to get another reset, than find a bug or really screwed ability..and to waste another weekend pvping for another reset...

    Sub Nuc escort huh..... pain in the TRIBBLE they are... Jam sensored, sub nuc instant death.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    the support ability Extend Shields is useless
    I stopped reading here.

    Even though Extend Shields shares a GCD with RSP, it's far from useless. Typically the goal is to use Extend Shields first, keeping yourself alive for the next 20 seconds with other defensive buffs (ET, ST, EP:S, HE, pick your favorites). It's very unusual for me to be destroyed in the 20 seconds after using Extend Shields before I can drop RSP, even if the other team switches targets to me immediately. I have a lot of resist buffs I can stack.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    well, i respect your opinion on extend shields, wildfyre010. but there are some restrictions in quoting; quoting half of a sentence doesn't reflect the whole message. when forced to maintain rsp on yourself, you won't be able to use extend shields. extend shields is not useless at all, but in this particular case.
    regardless of your personal bo-setting (or mine) some situations may be as described above. In my opinion there is a problem in balancing that is producing alot of frustration right now.

    "I'd prefer a slightly slower more strategic space combat experience myself. When one well timed volley can completely wipe an opponent from the map that doesn't seem too fun to me." -SteveHale

    i really like his opinion on the topic. pvp isn't really strategic at the moment, there is no time for some decisions while in combat. maybe it's me, too slow for this game, too clumsy. Well, should keep on doing some pve stuff. Seriously, i don't think so called "whine"-threads are random events. There has to be some reason for the lack of fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Andor wrote: »
    Did you read the post just above mine, because that was what i was responding to.

    Oh really? How did you know I was responding to you directly?

    Oh right, because I used quotes. You may want to try that in the future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    If you are bored, hop in lower tier ship of your choice and pvp. Its good for a while, but even that gets boring.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I stopped reading here.

    Even though Extend Shields shares a GCD with RSP, it's far from useless.


    It isn't useless, but it's the most powerful heal in the game right now by a huge margin and a single ship with cannons can still bust through the healing factor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    Yes, PVP sucks with damage the way it is. Defenses are pretty much useless.

    it works as intended :D (psst get a tactical alt and you can do insane dmg. who cares of shields? AP)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    SteveHale wrote: »
    I'd prefer a slightly slower more strategic space combat experience myself. When one well timed volley can completely wipe an opponent from the map that doesn't seem too fun to me.

    Just Tacticals will wipe ppl from map in 2 sec. others arent really that bad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Rothnang wrote:
    Yea, cannons are way too powerful right now, and in general the DPS gap in this game is wider than the grand canyon. The difference in DPS between a support ship running aux and an escort running weapons is litterally a factor of 20 or greater.

    I don't know exactly what Cryptic was thinking, maybe Phasers on a science ship running aux are supposed to the equivalent of a wizard hitting an enemy with his stick or sometrhing. But then again, in every game with wizards their spells do huge damage... Science abilities can't kill anything, except for Feedback Pulse which is getting nerfed and rightly so.

    I been saying since CB, that cannon, especially DHC is overpowering, combined this with rapid fire.. etc. and it a major issue.

    Why cannon is op - if you read Cryptic description,

    Each of the weapons types has strengths and weaknesses associated with it.

    * Beams burn down shields very well but do less damage against the hull.
    * Cannons burn down shields almost as well as beams, but do more hull damage.
    * Torpedoes do little damage to strong shields, but do a lot of hull damage.
    * Turrets can burn down shields well, but don’t do as much damage to the hull.

    Its the only weapon that can do both well, burn down shields almost as well as a beam and on top of it, do more hull damage.

    If you read the rest of weapon types, they only l do one thing well, not two.. Cannon need to do one thing well, either shield or hull, but not both well.

    If not, give the other class the ability to equip DHC cannon then :) :Ding
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Just would like to point out that beams arent that much weaker in terms of dps as cannons. They just lack the burst. If they would be severely underpowered, my escort fitted with 4 beam arrays wouldnt be on top dmg table with other cannon escorts. ;) I have tested thoroughly (150 matches) it during my extended weekend, and there is nothing wrong with beams. Its much more personal thing.

    They could however lower the burst capability of rapid fires by 10-15% tho.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    Just would like to point out that beams arent that much weaker in terms of dps as cannons. ... Its much more personal thing.

    I concur. Though I do pack a load of cannons, I will never get rid of beams entirely. I've seen Overload deliver the coup de grace too many times.

    BTW, I won't mention screen and ship name (not sure how you feel about it), but if you are who I think you are....you got one speedy ship! Damned hard to kill too. Tip o' the hat.:o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Tsvaox wrote:
    I respecced yesterday like most others to an escort build. I already had MK X cannons since I actually had leveled as an escort. I pick up my necessary BOFF skills such as CRF 2 and 1 along with APB and HYT 2.

    I head into my first PUG PvP match and end up getting a score of 22 and 1 along with some 400k+ damage. And the trend has continued ever since in fact the worst I have done is 10 and 2. Simply put escort DPS or rather dual heavy/dual cannon rapid fire DPS is so out of control it makes PvP trivial. No longer am I worried about having abilities to counter other players heck I hardly worry about survivability at all since I stay with the group. People stacking RSP are not even a problem since I can kill them with bleed through damage. And even though I am doing so "good" in pvp it is not even remotely fun my opponents have no chance there is no thrill or excitement.

    Is anyone else feeling this way? I am only logging on anymore to do dailies now since PvP has become such a drag.

    The tribble change to shields will not even be enough to fix this problem.

    i havent been on tribble so what change to shileds ^^

    also lets say u get 10% bleedthrough
    ud have to do over 400k dmg to kill a cruser by bleed through
    if 5 of u wanted to kill by bleedthrough ud have to each give an average of

    about 75k each which turnes out to be about
    5000 dps for 15 secconds

    which is possble however each ship would need to be equipped with 4 front cannons (4004 dps if specked)
    and several back turrets
    then you would have to be engeneer and use nadeon inversion and eps transfer ect so your weapon power dosent dissapear

    well its possble but your egzagerating slightly ^^
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