I was discussing microtransactions with Commander Reed yesterday in a different thread. In said thread I mentioned that MTs (Microtransactions) would pretty much be the wave of the future. This got me to thinking about Microtransactions in general so I decided to see what is up with them overall.
This thread is for the discussions of MTs in general and how they relate to STO.
Personally, I am neither for nor against microtransactions. I see the benefit of each type of model. (Sub, F2P, MTs and combinations of all.) My purpose in giving this thread life is to discuss how the MTs help Cryptic in making STO a better game. I realize not everyone sees this the same as me and I have no intention of arguing that. I will debate my point but lets try to limit any frustrations.
Ok, lets establish a few things right off the bat. At the moment MTs are not massively in use at present in a lot of MMOs. However, I think this is going to change. I think we are going to start seeing more MMOs and game in general slowly add MTs. In fact this change has already started. For the moment, some MMOs use the MTs in small amounts, Blizzard pets etc. It is starting to be used in single player PC titles as well, such as Dragon Age (Return to Ostgar DLC) There was even talk by EA in putting in MTs for Battlefield Bad Company. (I don't know if they went through with it yet or will).
MTs are also slowly creeping up on the console world too. XBox live uses them and so does the Playstation Network. Games such as Wipeout HD and Rockband and Guitar hero all use MTs and the list goes on. So what does this mean right now? It means that MTs are starting to slowly enter into mainstream gaming. Need proof? How about the fact that Steam is now adding support for MTs. (
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/valves-steamworks-now-supports-microtransactions-and-more-data-storage-20100322/) Also there companies that do nothing but work with MTs. (Example: TrueFish
http://www.livegamer.com/)
The debate on MTs goes beyond this forum. Even at the Games Developers Conference there was a heated discussion on MTs verses traditional models such as using subs. (There was no clear winner). So why is this such a hot topic? Here is part of the problem. Take SWG, came out in 2003 with a sub price of 14.99. Adjusted for inflation to today's dollars (2009) it becomes 17.44. Yet the standard sub price is still 15.00 dollars. It has not gone up with inflation but remained the same price for six years. What hasn't remained the same is the demand for better games. Better graphics, better gameplay the works. As each game is developed using a subscription model the price of the subs don't change but the development costs do.
In an earlier thread I used the Department of Labor statistics for the median income of a computer programmer in California as a base. (2006 then adjusted for inflation) The median income was 80k+. If we were to assume that there are 30 developers on the STO team you are looking at a sizable chunk of change every month. (In the other thread that 80K includes estimates on standard health care and insurance packages.) Does the currently estimates number of subs cover that cost. Sure it does. Yet, there other things to add into it. The energy consumption of the server farm, cooling for said server farm. Bandwidth costs, normal misc overhead costs. Salaries for sales reps, executives, marketing and all the things that go into that such as graphic printing etc. There is also rent and other things that have to come out of that monthly sub price. With 100K subs you are looking at approximately 1.5 million dollars a month. (Not counting lifers etc etc). That puts the margin on a per sub basis, very small.
So how does a company make up the difference? This is where the MTs come into play. Microtransactions allow the company to make money but provide a value only to the players who wants it. Let me use an example to help explain. Say a Art Dev is currently rendering a new project to go into an update. Rendering can take a long time depending on what is being rendered. During this time he can sit idle and wait or he can put that time to productive use for the company. While waiting for the other project to finish rendering he creates a new uniform. Over the next couple of days while haveing to endure downtime on the other project he tweeks it and finally it is done. What does he do with it? He could put it in the update but the interesting fact is not everyone is going to want or like it. So the company puts it on the MT store to let only the people who want it, purchase it.
The company would have to pay that developer for the down time anyway so why not let the developer work on something small that can give the players some value and the company make money off that previously unused downtime. Yet, this only addresses those with concerns that the company is just out for greed. It doesn't address the issue that some have that ALL content should be included in the sub price. That part is a little more complicated that it seems.
Regardless, you can't justify large ongoing development costs only on a subscription basis. Most companies no longer have the luxury of long development times and endless buckets of shareholder money to take the large risk on a new MMO. Lets face it, MMOs are risky. Many folks will no doubt point at Blizzard for part of this. Well take into account Blizzard owns and did own its own IP. Warcraft was theirs. There was no license fees, no approval processes outside the company. The didn't have to content with 40 years of background from various sources either. Even Bioware that now has the ST license can spend more money because they have the backing of the license holder. (LucasArts) Believe it or not SWG showed (Pre CU and NGE) that a Star Wars MMO was a viable investment. When you look back at the previous Star Trek games from Activision and Interplay you won't see that level of success in even the single player arena.
Where does that leave us. It leaves us with the fact that in order for Cryptic to maintain a healthy margin and improve STO they need the C-Store and the Microtransactions. Is it an absolute must? I don't know, I can't answer that. What I can say from what research I have done is that we will see more future content because of the C-store and not just for the C-Store. Also there are many companies that are looking at adding MTs in the future. Global Agenda is just one that is exploring the possibility. EA has already given serious thought to adding MTs. You are going to see more and more MTs as time goes on.
Comments
If this is the future....it's not very good. At least make the C-store tempting. As it stands I have not needed to buy any cryptic points as the only things I could see of value were the extra slots. Perfect. I used the free points I got with my initial game purchase.
Personally though I think the Atair/Cryptic Business model sucks and I won't pay for content while I am paying for my subs AND any expansions. PERHAPS if this game gave as much value for money as most if not all other Sub based MMO's out there then maybe if they had worthwhile stuff in the C-store then maybe....just maybe I would.
As it stands no point whatsoever.
Certainly what you say has some validity to it. I think that is the reason why you will see more races like the Packleds and Caitians on the C-Store. Some people don't want to play those but for others they would have value. I wouldn't buy a Packled but I will buy a Caitian. I may not buy any escort skins (Unless they are super cool) but I might more cruiser skins and maybe science skins.
The point is that the C-Store like the rest of the game needs time to get fully up to speed.
Now, I would be concerned and understandably upset if they were to, say put the new upcoming Klingon content on the C-Store. Or to release the Romulan faction as a C-Store addition. Those should come free.
For Star Trek Online... I'd say going the MT route wouldn't be such a bad idea. If I weren't a lifer, I would feel very hard pressed to justify spending 15 bucks a month on this game.
As it is, there are other F2P games that launched with more depth, and better polish than STO (ROM, DDO, even Free Realms is more entertaining, Allods, etc). So being that STO is in some ways, below the standards of some free to play games, I can't see any reason for STO to not adopt the F2P model.
If this game were the same game without the Star Trek IP, would anyone of us still be here? Ouch.
I was just looking at Face Of Mankind......it's a new MMO not long out of Beta just like STO.......it is free to play BUT you can go VIP and have more inv space, customizable living quarters and quite frankly it puts STO to shame. On just the initial observations it has unbelievably more depth than STO.
I just don't see how MT's can be that needed when you get some little indy game pop up that is quite frankly leagues ahead of anything Cryptic has done and can be played for free.
Spot on
Complete the game first then I will consider paying extra. Right now these things only remind how shallow this experience really is. If it was not for my fleet I would have moved on already. Its funny how Cryptic is apt enough to vision this marketing model but has never considered the term "competition". This IP will only push you so far before you give up on this highway robbery model. The game lacks content. Charging at this point for stuff is absurd.
I never minded utility things on the C store like the slots, respecs and renames. Blizzard has also used this (and it took them a long time to get there) but did you see them start charging for armor set skins or capital city interior design? No. Only character pets (like the shuttles).
Subscription OR microtransactions you decide. But you cant have your pie and eat it too.:rolleyes:
Oh and as for the skins......please.....if they insist on designing their own weird ships then it seals the fate of MT's in this game for me. Why oh why would I pay for what can only be described as Trek ships that have just plainly gone wrong when they COULD put some canon ships in that are just beyowtiful to behold?
Do I want to buy a sci skin of a dev designed ship when all the dev designed sci ships I have so far are just as pugly? No......just to cruise around in I would rather roll in any of the other canon trek ships.
My Intrepid......if only I could make that t5 I would never want for a diff skin again.
My Galaxy.......mmmmmmmm
My Connie.......mmmmmmmm
etc etc
The devs that are designing the new ships need to switch off whatever techno/Acidhouse/jungle music they are listening to......put away whatever non prescribed medication it is they are taking and start cranking out any number of AWESOME canon ships that they can draw from instead.
If they wanted a fed dreadnaught.....man they could have gone for a TNG version of the old Dreadnaughts they had in Mr Scotts guide to the Enterprise. Jupiter? looks like it ate one too many BOPs for dinner.
From what I understand, the reason there isn't any more canon ships in game is they have to be approved by CBS. I would have thought that all the ships would come with the license but apparently not. I too want more canon ships in game. Cryptic has never been real clear on why they aren't.
LOL oh dear.....that does not bode well.
No canon ships.....no happy brucie.
The funny thing is , you can have your cake and eat it too. (I would have made a cake is a lie joke but Portal 2 is coming out so maybe the cake wasn't a lie after all.)
I think they should have stuck with just the slots and respecs etc for now till more content was out. However by the same token it goes to what I said in the OP. They can take the downtime that hey ordinarily have and make this fluff and put it on the C-Store to pad the bottom line. It is only if the C-Store stuff takes precedence over them making content is where I would be upset.
I wish I knew why there was a delay. IT might have something to do with the fact what tier do you make the canon ships. People at T5 will want to play them too. I wish Cryptic would just come out and tell us either way.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2448339
He bolded the name Excelsior.
And this
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=142585
So they might very well be on the drawing board or the approval board or what ever. The fact he won't say is significant.
As far as I am aware it was only the Lifers perks that were an overtime work thing. All the rest of the fluff that is now in C-store HAS taken precedence as there is pretty much still a dearth of content even with the season 1 patch.
Now don't get me wrong like I say I don't mind there being a C-store.....I just won't be using it.....but for the love of Goddenberry just get the content out now.
The devs are playing catch up because the game was released bare bones and almost every week we are seeing content getting held back again and again. So really someone needs to make an executive decision and have a week or two of double shifts in order to gain some ground. Otherwise Season 2 will just be soo far away from hitting holodeck that those on the fence will be loooong gone.
As I recall the plan was that there would be an STF every week with a smallish patch every 2 weeks and then a bigger patch every 45.
That was the plan originally. Of course it has all changed now.....but that is because they are so behind it's a real chore to catch up.
But I am sure NO SUBSCRIPTION games are the future.
I personally would prefer a Guild Wars style model: Pay a larger sum once and pay for additional large chunks of content every half a year or year.
The "little stuff for little money" that often sums up to still quite a lot of money in the end is something I dislike about item-shop based games. Often you might up with the price of a full subscription or even more.
I am a bit a hater at the moment when it comes to Cryptic:
Subscription + Item Shop is double dipping. Too bad the item shop for "extras" like some spiffy pets and stuff comes to more and more sub games. It is a bad trend.
Offering non-essential items that don't give anyone a clear advantage and are mostly cosmetic.
You are kind of wrapping two issues into one. One being the C-Store (MTs) and the other the lack of content.
The MTs I discussed in the OP. The lack of content. Yes, there is a lack of content. Noone can deny that I think. Having said that, content takes a while to make. You just can't wave a magic wand and POFF content. Yes, I agree they are playing catch up. I don't think they can code and design any faster though.
Its already happening. How many updates on the C Store you saw in this month alone? You think we will get as many essential changes before Season 2 (or STO goes live as i like to call it)?
The truth of the matter is I dont want them to design new fugly bridges, races and ships yet. I want more episodes and the variety in game we were promised. The C store has taken the lead and is taking the designer's time instead of let's say adding more planet types and fixing the god awful existing ship models. Even maybe make random aliens have different ships and stop us from getting texts about all races and their grandmas having a f***** 3rd dynasty that spreads artifacts all over.
The C store MUST stop here. Slots and respecs were necessary but now its time to move on to justify those subs. As for the cannon ships how on Earth you have a licence for Mirandas, Cheyenne all the Enterprise models (save NX) and dont have the licence on Excelsior Nebula and Ambassador? They all more or less belong to already licenced eras. So I call BS on the CBS excuse. They just want money for it.
They released the game early to get their bonus and now they want more money for releasing cosmetic junk while continuously delaying stuff.
The line must be drawn here !!!
I have this image of Cryptic borg all over your engineering section.
On the license thing, CBS is notorious for the license deals. I think the only one with a worst rep is NBC. I can see them pulling something like that, where they want final approval before they are added. I would be willing to be there is some issue with Paramount in all of that too. Yet, I really don't know. I just don't put it past them.
As far as the content goes, let me ask you this. Do you really think if they stopped working on any C-store items that more content would get released sooner?
If this is a sign of the variants to come from Cryptic I wont buy any more, pretty poor unfortunatly (although klingon ones looked quite good, go figure)
All the other stuff in there is fine, but do remember we pay a monthly fee (or LT fee whichever) which we should get some of these things included for too.
Bottom Line, if Cryptic want to continue charging a monthly fee and C-Store they need to put some effort into the C-store items to justify the cost.
Erm why would it not? Sure they have different teams but erm they could pitch in and make new weapons to fix the loot tables OR even fix the darn ugly AP weapons that look as if the devs forgot to finish the models for them.
Or how about making more MK X purp gear for phasers and disruptors SEEING as the benefit of going for the other weap types are non existent?
But who's to say they aren't already working on those. Do you think it they stopped doing any C-Store stuff that all that would be fixed any sooner than Season two?
Since I don't have a Cryptic org chart I can't speak to how the teams are arranged. Usually you can't just grab people off of one team to put on another to make stuff happen quicker. Not in programming at least.
Well I am just going by experience.....look at Season 1.
People said LOOOONG before it had any dev notes on it that they suspected it would not fix the lack of klingon content DESPITE the devs leading people to think that way at launch. People were right and it had an awful lot of fluff in it.
So that is where I draw it from. Experience. Of course you are right that there is no way of knowing 100% for sure about it BUT you could pretty much use that trump card and nerf the majority of the threads in this forum with that one so it's not really fair to do that as we are simply discussing are we not?
Yes. If it takes them any length of time to design a new bridge or ship variant theycan equally adjust the existing ones or add more environment and mission variables. The difference is that C Store is extra income. So it will take precedence. Unless of course they are denied putting those up for sale in the first place. (Until the game reaches a point where its a complete product as advertised).
Guess how many plasma conduits I would nerdsmash to get the Cryptic "Queen"
Apparently the "new" stuff this month are things like:
- auto fire that was broken/missing to begin with
- fixing the incomplete exchange placeholder
- giving outfits that people paid for two months earlier
- making the trill available to klingons that was supposed to be available at launch as a preorder
- aid missions you dont warp out as soon as you get them
- fixing memory alpha casino crafting system when you bet a number of anomalies hoping to get the to
next tier.
- Difficulty that was fine on beta but broken ever since launch.
Did I leave anything out?
About Season 1. Yes, many people did believe it wouldn't fix the Klingon problem. I agree and I agreed back then. The lack of full Klingon PVE content is readily apparent. As far as the devs leading people on, that is strictly opinion based so I really can't address that. Again saying it had a lot of fluff is based on perspective and I can't really address that either. Yet, again though, you are mixing issue. Content production is not directly equal to MTs.
If it takes a developer a month to create new story missions for the Klingons and it only takes 2 hours to make a new uniform. How is him spending the downtime in between renderings or waiting on the code team to send over the latest build etc going to make the content come out faster? The truth is, is that it isn't. Now, if we were seeing a TRIBBLE load of new items every week then sure I would say what you are getting at would be valid.
If you notice most of the stuff that is coming out on the C-Store is mostly art related stuff. The level designers and story writers and such are working on the meat and potatoes so to speak and this stuff has to be done before the art department gets it. Then I am sure it has to be sent back and forth till it is done. You just can't throw more people at the project and hope it completes faster.
Like I was explaining to Bruce. The art department isn't typically involved in the process like that. The level designers and story writers have to create the latest build. It then goes to the art department and back and forth till it goes to tribble. (Not every company does that but it is the typical process.) So during all this waiting they create this fluff.
Oh the violence inherent in the system
Are you talking about space autofire? I agree to a point that these things should probably have been done before launch. In a sense that is a different topic all together. The point that I am trying to make with the OP is that MTs will benefit us and the game. It doesn't detract from the problems that needs to be solved but eliminating the C-store won't solve the problems either. If we accept the fact that they launched a framework of a game we need to be able to give them time to flesh it out. It won't happen over night. To be honest I think a season every three months is ambitious at best. Maybe they can pull it off. Who knows. I do expect though as they add more content the time between additions will get longer as there will be more to balance, to code etc.
yeeaaah. I am not reading that. I will just disagree with you.
Lol...Face of Mankind. The game that started it's beta in 2004, sold retail copies in 2006 and was shut down by hackers for over a month causing it to be taken offline until it was recently re-released?
Great comparison.:rolleyes:
Eliminating the C store is not what I am asking for. Nor I muse that it will solve anything. I am simply stating that they should just lay off the C store stuff for now and fully focus on the game. 2 Hours here and there added together for all the stuff they keep forking out could have been used to improve on existing issues. I understand it takes time to develop but the tribble server had nothing new either for me to test. The C store is a distraction to them at this point. And it will cost them dearly if they carry on in this manner as people have already noticed the frequency of which the C store seems to get updates versus the actual game.
I am sorry but I am expecting better on a game reskinned over an existing pre-tested engine (from CO). They need to give an incentive for people to stay because empty promises and constantly delayed features is not it. Those "cosmetics" could be used to reassure us, but instead they choose to infuriate us.
I see their "April joke" becoming a self fulfilling prophecy minus the STO2 part if they dont start coughing up.
No way really?
Damn.....that sucks......still it went through all that and yet it still has more depth than STO......how about that?
...let me compare that to Xbox 360 DLC
What we get in STO is the Horse Armor-DLC from Oblivion.
-> http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/01/oblivion-dlc-half-off-except-horse-armor-which-is-doubled/
What i want is GTA4 - The Lost and the Damned -> real improvement of the game for a fair price.
-> http://uk.xboxlive.ign.com/articles/947/947252p1.html
"Rockstar isn't dicking around with horse armor."
Yes but the interesting part of the GTA4 is that it costs 20 dollars and quote from the article.
"While The Lost & Damned features the same gameplay mechanics and storytelling style of GTA IV, it is as close to a full new game as I've seen for "add-on content."
First off one is single player and easier to code for and STO isn't. However, you did show my main point that MTs are going to become increasingly common