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Shields?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
What shields are people running in pvp? I am torn between the covariant cap and the resilient with only 5% bleed through.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Covariant [Cap]x2
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Basically, the idea is that no one ever died because of bleed-through, so don't run resilient.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Resilient cap x 2 Anti proton resist
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Naevius wrote:
    Basically, the idea is that no one ever died because of bleed-through, so don't run resilient.

    Pvp much? i don't think so. Resilient shields are awesome against peeps when you use RSP and protecting against those random tricobalt torps and ramming speed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I use Covariant [Cap] x3 (52 marks of Honor). But it really doesn't matter since Rapid fire burst damage makes every shield useless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Drucard wrote:
    I use Covariant [Cap] x3 (52 marks of Honor). But it really doesn't matter since Rapid fire burst damage makes every shield useless.

    Seriously.

    I ran Cov Capx2... lasts under 5 seconds in pvp against ANY foe.

    Shields are SOOO Pre-Patch man.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    Seriously.

    I ran Cov Capx2... lasts under 5 seconds in pvp against ANY foe.

    Shields are SOOO Pre-Patch man.

    Well, WTF else can I do? Hull resists are no better. I'm in a cruiser, how am I supposed to absorb damage and help my team mates?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Drucard wrote:
    Well, WTF else can I do? Hull resists are no better. I'm in a cruiser, how am I supposed to absorb damage and help my team mates?

    I am a cruiser too!

    Right now... its ALL about damage. Spec yourself as though you are simply flying an escort with engine damage. And PRAY the enemy never finds your sides.

    Pretty much the best shield stats I seen were about 9k on a player... with escorts making 10k crits with ONE weapon (They do fire like 5 at once every couple seconds) do you REALLY think that extra 1k or 2k shield strength is going to mean anything at all?

    I am a cruiser. I love to pvp in STO and do it as often as I can... but seriously, with these newest changes, I cannot in good concience, join PvP in a cruiser. It is a hinderance to myself and my team mates while PvP is geared 100% towards Science captain in Escorts.

    While indeed there will be SOME people in cruisers managing to stay alive in PvP, I 100% gurantee that they'd add 10x more to the engagement had they been in an escort.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    Pretty much the best shield stats I seen were about 9k on a player... with escorts making 10k crits with ONE weapon (They do fire like 5 at once every couple seconds) do you REALLY think that extra 1k or 2k shield strength is going to mean anything at all?

    7k is all I can manage.

    DAMNIT!!!

    :mad:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    yeah and as a engineer stacking my shield abilitys to get something close to 95% shield resistance and they still get cut through like a hot knife through butter. EP shields, rotate shields, science team 2, and sturcture to aux pup those together you get some nice resistance but its to bad you dont notice much except you can like a few seconds longer provided you can move you'r ship accordingly to all shield facing before you get burnt down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Drucard wrote:
    7k is all I can manage.

    DAMNIT!!!

    :mad:

    Im at 7.9k shields with a rare Admiral Mk IX at the moment.

    Right now man, we aren't meant for PvP... go do PvE missions for now until the devs work this out.

    PvP I find my cruiser is a liability.

    PvE... well, I own. The changes made make a Cruiser godlike in PvE, but the lame duck in PvP.

    As I said, PvP EVERYONE has to be an escort. Cruisers, Sci ships, escorts... all escorts. But which do you think does the best at being an escort? heh.

    If you really must PvP as a cruiser, I suggest picking targets that are already engaged so you can forcus your fore weapons on them. Make your fore weapons dual beams, NOT arrays. Pump out as much DPS in the forward area as you can.

    Equipt all EPS consols, full power to weapons.

    Given the strength of attacks, an escort could last like 3.5 seconds compared to a cruiser's 4 seconds ish. But the escort has WAAYYY more damage output.

    REVERSE SHIELD POLARITY... as many as you can. Feedback Pulse is good and so is science team.

    If someone cripples you (Viral Matrix... the purple doom thing) and you dont have Sci team... you just lost. Dead. over.

    In fact, at Capt on up, you HAVE TO have sci team... not having it is pretty much the same as covering yourself in chocolate and throwing yourself in the middle of Fat Camp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    So basically cruiser have no purpose in pvp now except to be easy kills? sweet so much for being a tank in pvp wtf. :( That just makes me sad seeing as if i wanted to be a glass cannon in pvp i would play my tactical officer but i want to be the hard to kill tank guy/support in pvp and now we cant even do that. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Chronico wrote: »
    So basically cruiser have no purpose in pvp now except to be easy kills? sweet so much for being a tank in pvp wtf. :( That just makes me sad seeing as if i wanted to be a glass cannon in pvp i would play my tactical officer but i want to be the hard to kill tank guy/support in pvp and now we cant even do that. :(

    It has me rather upset too.

    This also applied for the Klingons. At least they can cloak and have a little easier time. Us fed cruisers... not so much.

    I do not believe this was the Dev's intention... I am certain they have been reviewing player feedback and are looking at ways to fix this... many ideas have been presented by several different people too.

    Hopefully us cruisers, fed and Klingon alike, will get some aid for PvP soon, or some overall fixes to make all ship types function more as they are supposed to for PvP AND PvE (As even PvE I burn through things easily like an escort while having escort like defenses)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Dekkameron wrote: »
    Pvp much? i don't think so. Resilient shields are awesome against peeps when you use RSP and protecting against those random tricobalt torps and ramming speed


    I am with you on the Resilient Shield for PvP. At least on my Raptor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    Im at 7.9k shields with a rare Admiral Mk IX at the moment.

    Right now man, we aren't meant for PvP... go do PvE missions for now until the devs work this out.

    PvP I find my cruiser is a liability.

    PvE... well, I own. The changes made make a Cruiser godlike in PvE, but the lame duck in PvP.

    As I said, PvP EVERYONE has to be an escort. Cruisers, Sci ships, escorts... all escorts. But which do you think does the best at being an escort? heh.

    If you really must PvP as a cruiser, I suggest picking targets that are already engaged so you can forcus your fore weapons on them. Make your fore weapons dual beams, NOT arrays. Pump out as much DPS in the forward area as you can.

    Equipt all EPS consols, full power to weapons.

    Given the strength of attacks, an escort could last like 3.5 seconds compared to a cruiser's 4 seconds ish. But the escort has WAAYYY more damage output.

    REVERSE SHIELD POLARITY... as many as you can. Feedback Pulse is good and so is science team.

    If someone cripples you (Viral Matrix... the purple doom thing) and you dont have Sci team... you just lost. Dead. over.

    In fact, at Capt on up, you HAVE TO have sci team... not having it is pretty much the same as covering yourself in chocolate and throwing yourself in the middle of Fat Camp.
    I like the VM the way it is. What could be better for VM would be some way like .1% resistance in some way or form to keep it from being to over used or maybe a longer cool down. VM is not suppose to be used to take you out, It is an effect to be used so you can escape your enemy and either charge up for another round or go do something else. Though everyone uses it as a death sentence.

    VM is an evasive ability for escape.

    After thinking, make it so you are invincible during the VM since you are completely disabled that would make VM much more of an evasive ability that allows you to escape and it would make a lot more sense of its use.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Airwen wrote:
    I like the VM the way it is. What could be better for VM would be some way like .1% resistance in some way or form to keep it from being to over used or maybe a longer cool down. VM is not suppose to be used to take you out, It is an effect to be used so you can escape your enemy and either charge up for another round or go do something else. Though everyone uses it as a death sentence.

    VM is an evasive ability for escape.

    After thinking, make it so you are invincible during the VM since you are completely disabled that would make VM much more of an evasive ability that allows you to escape and it would make a lot more sense of its use.

    I do like VM as I think it's nifty... even though I dont use it. But I'd prefer for it to not be that death sentence it is in PvP currently.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    i dont know what you guys are talking about, cruisers are fine in pvp. If you get alpha striked, eps, eps shileds, and rsf.... and dont be a newb and not balance your bloody shields. I've have escorts complaining i was hacking and rsp'ing the whole fight simply because i was actively balancing shields on my damaged side. Seriously... shields are weaker than pre patch atm... but its not impossible. Stop saying cruisers are not meant for pvp atm... its just means your dont know how to use them correctly. Please people i beg you, .... look at your own gameplay before blaming the game, its usually you. And i'm not saying i dont die in pvp.... if your outnumbered, and they arent TRIBBLE... you should lose everytime. But to say that cruisers arent worth anything in pvp.... you must be just bad.

    A cruiser and escort duo kicks so much TRIBBLE if you know what your doing.... try it
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    REVERSE SHIELD POLARITY... as many as you can.
    If I see a fed cruiser start glowing green, I ignore it and look for something else. Which is pretty hilarious when it's just another cruiser that also starts glowing green. ^_^ Enough of that ability stacked and you can hold out for a pretty good while, but if the rest of your team is shot down you're probably still gonna die.

    I'd recommend using science teams and whatever else you can manage to keep the more fragile teammates alive, but focus fire from cannons is pretty vicious right now, so i'm not sure how well that works. And your Extend Shields is on the same cooldown as the skill that's keeping you alive, so...

    Personally, flying a BoP, I've been saying "TRIBBLE it", hoping the escorts don't notice me, and extending shields like crazy to keep the people that actually deal damage alive. As soon as some one notices me I explode though. You might be able to get away with that for a while, it depends on how on top of that sort of thing the klingon team is. And how well extend shields actually works in the current damage fest.
    DanaDark wrote:
    I do like VM as I think it's nifty... even though I dont use it. But I'd prefer for it to not be that death sentence it is in PvP currently.
    I, for one, despise it from the very pit of my black heart. ^_^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    i dont know what you guys are talking about, cruisers are fine in pvp. If you get alpha striked, eps, eps shileds, and rsf.... and dont be a newb and not balance your bloody shields. I've have escorts complaining i was hacking and rsp'ing the whole fight simply because i was actively balancing shields on my damaged side. Seriously... shields are weaker than pre patch atm... but its not impossible. Stop saying cruisers are not meant for pvp atm... its just means your dont know how to use them correctly. Please people i beg you, .... look at your own gameplay before blaming the game, its usually you. And i'm not saying i dont die in pvp.... if your outnumbered, and they arent TRIBBLE... you should lose everytime. But to say that cruisers arent worth anything in pvp.... you must be just bad.

    A cruiser and escort duo kicks so much TRIBBLE if you know what your doing.... try it

    Its a well known issue in PvP that Fed cruisers are not worth their weight. Can they make it through PvP? yes they can. But again, they wont be able to carry their weight even half the time.

    Had you paid ANY attention to the issues brought up, you'd have understood this from the start.

    Many of us know how to use cruisers correctly, that is not the problem. I invite you to educate yourself and read up on the matter and display facts rather than your own opinion on the issue.

    When a bunch of people make comments on a balancing issue, Klingon and Federation alike, there is a VERY good chance there is an issue. Additionally, both Fed and Klingon players have presented facts, data, and the like. So please, feel free to bring such things too.

    I would also like to point out there is a psychological term for what you've just done... but I won't go into detail. Not trying to flame it or anything, I just find it amusing how it is something that MANY people do constantly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Dekkameron wrote: »
    Pvp much? i don't think so. Resilient shields are awesome against peeps when you use RSP and protecting against those random tricobalt torps and ramming speed

    Quite a bit, actually. The math simply doesn't support giving up tons of shield points to reduce bleed through.

    And one of my tricobalt torps does 18k, so blocking an extra 5% is going to save you 900 pts out of that. Hmmm.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    Its a well known issue in PvP that Fed cruisers are not worth their weight. Can they make it through PvP? yes they can. But again, they wont be able to carry their weight even half the time.

    Had you paid ANY attention to the issues brought up, you'd have understood this from the start.

    Many of us know how to use cruisers correctly, that is not the problem. I invite you to educate yourself and read up on the matter and display facts rather than your own opinion on the issue.

    When a bunch of people make comments on a balancing issue, Klingon and Federation alike, there is a VERY good chance there is an issue. Additionally, both Fed and Klingon players have presented facts, data, and the like. So please, feel free to bring such things too.

    I would also like to point out there is a psychological term for what you've just done... but I won't go into detail. Not trying to flame it or anything, I just find it amusing how it is something that MANY people do constantly.

    My cruiser never has been more powerfull than now. My shields are gone right away with capx3 but there aswell if i shoot an escort with my 5000dps beam overload. I am mostly top damage and healing, and mostly zero or 1-2 deaths. I see my shield as a circle around me. Use hull abilities combined with RSP and you will do fine. Also, people should play cruiser more like escort. With the new skills, my evasive is so strong. That i can get away like 20km if i have full power to engines. So if you are taking heavy fire use RSP and after 10 secs evasive and they wont all chase you, mostly one and that one you can kill mostly easy.

    http://members.upc.nl/r.benthem7/sto/screenshot_2010-03-28-21-28-49.jpg
    http://members.upc.nl/r.benthem7/sto/screenshot_2010-03-28-20-06-11.jpg
    http://members.upc.nl/r.benthem7/sto/screenshot_2010-03-25-18-20-26.jpg
    Who needs escorts if you can give high damage good team support and tank ;) These where just pugs btw.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    as a sci ship i use covariant with high shield levels to make them regen more and have more resistance.
    plus the 11k in shields holds up well VS an assult
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    Its a well known issue in PvP that Fed cruisers are not worth their weight. Can they make it through PvP? yes they can. But again, they wont be able to carry their weight even half the time.

    Had you paid ANY attention to the issues brought up, you'd have understood this from the start.

    Many of us know how to use cruisers correctly, that is not the problem. I invite you to educate yourself and read up on the matter and display facts rather than your own opinion on the issue.

    When a bunch of people make comments on a balancing issue, Klingon and Federation alike, there is a VERY good chance there is an issue. Additionally, both Fed and Klingon players have presented facts, data, and the like. So please, feel free to bring such things too.

    I would also like to point out there is a psychological term for what you've just done... but I won't go into detail. Not trying to flame it or anything, I just find it amusing how it is something that MANY people do constantly.

    I invite you to educate yourself. fed cruisers are indeed worth their weight when their actually supporting and not trying to DPS the opponent down (hint: let the escort do that). If you think that the damage is too much, think about it this way. As a healer your job is to keep them alive long enough to kill the opponents.

    what happens when that RSP'd escort goes into the fray with 2-3 people targetting him? sure he may kill one of them before his RSP drops, but if he isn't propped up then hes just going to die. If you support him long enough, chances are he'll kill the other players; and you really don't need to heal him that long, just long enough for him to burst his opponents down.

    to all my fellow cruiser pilots; stop playing it like a DPS machine and play it like its meant to be played.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I use covariant myself, though I'm at work at the moment and can't quite remember just which one I do use. It's a x2 or x3 or something. I don't remember.

    Cruisers in pvp... ugh. It's a love/hate relationship. Some matches, it's weird because it'll go good. Other matches it doesn't matter, and the only contribution I provide is the circle of debris that I hope the other team runs into and rams a piece of it. lol. Not possible but fun to think about.

    I use the RSP ability but I only have it once and I never spam it. What's funny is that I remember a few times where I've had maybe 6 klingons opening up on me and with the RSP ability the weapons fire alone will blot out my ship. So I just look like this big glowing orb of energy flying through space. lol.

    Most pvp matches I've played in lately, it's seemed as if the opposing team, Fed or Klink have been gunning for cruisers. The downside to this is that even though they are focused on me or another cruiser, most groups can't seem to agree on which target to attack, so we all just fly in, get briefly acquainted through weapons fire and then dropped like a hot potato before they move on the next one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    Its a well known issue in PvP that Fed cruisers are not worth their weight. Can they make it through PvP? yes they can. But again, they wont be able to carry their weight even half the time.

    Had you paid ANY attention to the issues brought up, you'd have understood this from the start.

    Many of us know how to use cruisers correctly, that is not the problem. I invite you to educate yourself and read up on the matter and display facts rather than your own opinion on the issue.

    When a bunch of people make comments on a balancing issue, Klingon and Federation alike, there is a VERY good chance there is an issue. Additionally, both Fed and Klingon players have presented facts, data, and the like. So please, feel free to bring such things too.

    I would also like to point out there is a psychological term for what you've just done... but I won't go into detail. Not trying to flame it or anything, I just find it amusing how it is something that MANY people do constantly.

    I invite you to L2P or stick with escorts. There are obviously many more people than me that have seen the benefits of cruisers. They are the healers of this game and without then escorts are only tough forthe first alpha strike, then they drop like flies without extends or engi teams. In my experience, cruisers fail in pvp bcause they have the misconception that they are the big damage dealrs, his is wrong they are Clerics with heavy armor that have nice sustained dps
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    I invite you to educate yourself. fed cruisers are indeed worth their weight when their actually supporting and not trying to DPS the opponent down (hint: let the escort do that). If you think that the damage is too much, think about it this way. As a healer your job is to keep them alive long enough to kill the opponents.

    what happens when that RSP'd escort goes into the fray with 2-3 people targetting him? sure he may kill one of them before his RSP drops, but if he isn't propped up then hes just going to die. If you support him long enough, chances are he'll kill the other players; and you really don't need to heal him that long, just long enough for him to burst his opponents down.

    to all my fellow cruiser pilots; stop playing it like a DPS machine and play it like its meant to be played.

    I agree most with this reply, Cruisers are meant to be playing the Command Ship role in battles not doing the face to face DPS, you add to the DPS and you support operations (repair other ships so they can do the killing), that is the role of a cruiser.

    A Good group should be made out of 1 Cruiser and 1 Science ship with 3 Escorts. The Cruiser is front line supporting the escorts the Science Ship CCing and Supporting the Cruiser should it come under attack, the escorts should be doing the killing, and switch to target who ever is attacking the cruiser or the science ship...synergy....at least under the current ability based mechanics.

    the next question is...do you actually relate to playing like this, do you like playing like this?

    if not then there is a problem between what the devs intent is and what the players expectation is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well guys i dissagree about role of a cruiser.
    the Most successful fighting ship ever

    My Assault Cruiser.R5 Build / Galaxy-class/ Sovereign- class
    http://tinyurl.com/yeb2y9y


    it 's all ways the Cruiser like the Galaxy warping in to save the day.

    The key to good Pvp fight whith a cruiser is to supply power to other ships
    or boost you own or Boost you tractor beams to hold an opponent the DPS ships drop like flys around me


    The Galaxy-class starship is one of the most powerful ships the Federation has ever designed. It is intended to serve as an exploration vessel, but in addition to a variety of different specialized research laboratories, it contains an impressive amount of firepower and excellent shielding. During the Dominion War, the Galaxy-class was one of the most successful fighting ships.




    Introduced in the 2370s, the Sovereign class was first battle-tested in the Battle of Sector 001 in 2373.

    Smaller than the earlier Galaxy Class, Sovereigns boast improved technology and weapons but less room for civilian personnel and family quarters. Expanded engineering facilities allow the Sovereign to supply power to other ships or boost its tractor beams to hold an opponent in place for improved targeting
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Cruiser is the universal ship from feds, it can do loads of DPS AND support team mates good. You need to have high weapon power for that and hazard + st en 2 x engi team and you can support your team nicely. And tactical in cruiser is also really nice, which i am. Imagine the go down fighting feature. With cruiser you can just let your hull get to 50% and activate it and bring down a rain of distruction and than combined with attack patern alpha + attack patern beta. But if you go to 50% hull on escort there is not much left.
    Firetroll wrote: »
    Well guys i dissagree about role of a cruiser.
    the Most successful fighting ship ever

    My Assault Cruiser.R5 Build / Galaxy-class/ Sovereign- class
    http://tinyurl.com/ycnw49m

    sorry but your skilltree looks wrong. Too much on 9 put more things on 7. No skills in science abilities, and those new powers are needed if you want to give some nice damage. Also subsystem repair doesnt do anything usefull, it doesnt boost engineer team so get rid of that. Its also sad you only spent 9 points in admiral skills levels, those give the biggest boost you know. Hull repair and weapon system performance are important for cruiser. http://tinyurl.com/yar9oo8 See here. You still have loads of skillpoints left to spent in science abilities. And after that you have 7 points left to spent in hull repair or weapon system performance. Tactical team leader is not needed for cruiser. And if you use that BO ability get rid of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I fixed it
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    zenixzor wrote:
    My cruiser never has been more powerfull than now. My shields are gone right away with capx3 but there aswell if i shoot an escort with my 5000dps beam overload. I am mostly top damage and healing, and mostly zero or 1-2 deaths. I see my shield as a circle around me. Use hull abilities combined with RSP and you will do fine. Also, people should play cruiser more like escort. With the new skills, my evasive is so strong. That i can get away like 20km if i have full power to engines. So if you are taking heavy fire use RSP and after 10 secs evasive and they wont all chase you, mostly one and that one you can kill mostly easy.

    http://members.upc.nl/r.benthem7/sto/screenshot_2010-03-28-21-28-49.jpg
    http://members.upc.nl/r.benthem7/sto/screenshot_2010-03-28-20-06-11.jpg
    http://members.upc.nl/r.benthem7/sto/screenshot_2010-03-25-18-20-26.jpg
    Who needs escorts if you can give high damage good team support and tank ;) These where just pugs btw.

    Beatings child! LoL.

    I havent been saying cruisers are utterly useless and defenseless... I been saying cruisers no longer get to play as cruisers... which is what you just said right here.

    My cruiser can pop PvE Battleships in like 5 seconds and take down players relatively quickly too if my fore is facing them. However, I cannot take nearly as much damage as I once was able to.

    Cruisers are "Broken" in the sense that they cannot do what they were initially designed to do. Think about if warriors in WoW or EQ2 could no longer take damage but got spells to do massive damage... all of a sudden, they dont feel like "Warriors" anymore but rather "wizards".

    And I been suggesting to cruiser players that want to stay in PvP to indeed play as a slower escort because that is the only hope for now.

    I been arguing for some sort of fix so that Cruisers can regain their former glory of actually being a cruiser.
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