Lets see I have 2 characters to RA5... Total points spent into ground skills = 0...
We need to separate skill trees to fix this problem... I barely have enough skill points as is, without putting anything into ground abilities.
Simple Solution - Have to separate skill trees with a separate points system
Ground: Same skills however now you get ground SP for doing missions and PVP...
Space: Same skills however now you get Space SP for doing missions and PVP...
This fixes people not wanting to waste XP on ground abilities...
Edit:
To everyone stating that no game should let you be good at both space and ground... Star Wars Galaxies had a separate skill system for space and ground... (Not stating that this is correct or it should be that way, just showing that another space/ground MMO did there skill system this way and it was in my opinion way better...)
Why. It's obvious which are space and which are ground skills. You get the same amount of skill ppoints as eveyone else. If you choose not to put any into ground thats your fault.
Why. It's obvious which are space and which are ground skills. You get the same amount of skill ppoints as eveyone else. If you choose not to put any into ground thats your fault.
My point is that why would I waste SP in ground skills... I would love to put SP into ground combat but it becomes a waste of my Space potential... This would allow two trees with two separate point systems so that we have ground XP and space XP...
Currently:
So if I put points into space I will be weak on the ground, if I put points into ground I will be weak in space... It shouldn't have to be this way.
But you would still only get the max skill points, thats not going to change and if it worked out that you did more ground than space missions you would have lees to spend on Space.
You have to compromise. Even having put everything you have into Space you still haven't maxed every Space skill or have you.
I,ve gone half and half so I'm effective in both.
My point is that why would I waste SP in ground skills... I would love to put SP into ground combat but it becomes a waste of my Space potential... This would allow two trees with two separate point systems so that we have ground XP and space XP...
Currently:
So if I put points into space I will be weak on the ground, if I put points into ground I will be weak in space... It shouldn't have to be this way.
I'd have to see a screen of your skill tree before I could possibly agree. I have an RA5 Tac in a cruiser and, after my free respec, have all ground skills related to how I want to play him, and all space skills for how I want to play him.
My Captain 4 Sci/Sci will have all T1-T4 science skills, all ground skills related to healing, and all other space skills necessary to how I play him.
My point is that why would I waste SP in ground skills... I would love to put SP into ground combat but it becomes a waste of my Space potential... This would allow two trees with two separate point systems so that we have ground XP and space XP...
Currently:
So if I put points into space I will be weak on the ground, if I put points into ground I will be weak in space... It shouldn't have to be this way.
They need to take the current amount of skill points and require a min amount in seperate space and ground trees to advance in rank. Say you have to put at least 1.2k in to one or the other.
If they just add more skill points so you can take both, they might as well increase the level amounts and you still wouldnt put any into ground. You'd just be even more powerful in space.
How they didnt consider that no one in their right mind would take ground points if they were serious about space (cough PvP'ers) is beyond my ability to comprehend.
I'd have to see a screen of your skill tree before I could possibly agree. I have an RA5 Tac in a cruiser and, after my free respec, have all ground skills related to how I want to play him, and all space skills for how I want to play him.
My Captain 4 Sci/Sci will have all T1-T4 science skills, all ground skills related to healing, and all other space skills necessary to how I play him.
I hope you dont PvP against dedicated PvPer's then (in space) or that you dont hope to win a mostly space STF in the near future. You are severly gimping yourself compared to people that dont care about ground combat (there are a lot).
For comparison, i have EVERY pre Adm. sci skill to 9 except tractor beams, which gives me enough to go 6/9 in 2 efficency skills, and 6/9 in a performance skill and the 2 basic eng skills as 9/9 and 7/9. I also have enough to get all of the 3 new combat skils up to 7/9 take most of the relative ship skills and 7/9 all the team leader skills.
They need seperate trees. I would destroy you in space combat.
lol, you got to be kidding me, you get the same skills as the rest of us...if you want to neglect Ground for space thats a choice, but you kinda lose out on the cure and other ground based quest/ missions, but hey your Reilly strong for space?
+1 for separate tree's.. they need to start fixing the skills they have done basically nothing to fix it after they added the skill cap, none of this would be a problem without it. i'm already annoyed as it is that I have to decide whether I want to fly an escort or a cruiser, when without the cap I could have flown either whenever I wanted but now I have to do a lengthy 20k merit respec whenever I feel like a change. /sigh
lol, you got to be kidding me, you get the same skills as the rest of us...if you want to neglect Ground for space thats a choice, but you kinda lose out on the cure ant other ground based quest/ missions, but hey your Reilly strong for space?
Thats the problem... If I want to be the good in space I have to sacrifice ground...
Thats the problem... If I want to be the best in space I have to sacrifice ground...
There is no "best" in this game. It's all a balancing act. You can't be awesome in space and awesome on the ground. You'll either be awesome in space and crappy on the ground, awesome on the ground and crappy in space, or not quite awesome in both.
Like Jedi, my Tac RA has ground and space skills set up nicely, all of the Cruiser skills up to T5 maxed, T5 has a few ranks. All space T1 and T2 weapon skills maxed, with T3 quantums maxed. All of the 3 Tactical Ship skills, the new ones, maxed. All of the ground combat skills maxed. And I've got Eng skills maxed in the areas that I need for my Cruiser and my Eng BOs. And my Tac RA is only RA2, so I'll end up maxing a few more skills before I'm done.
We get enough sp to get more then enough skills to be quite capable in space and ground at the same time, PvE or PvP. YOUR decision to max out only your space related skills is just that, your decision. And I've noticed it's a rather common one, both Fed and IKF, to ignore ground skills because 'they just aren't needed'. I'm guessing the people who make that statement are the ones who die repeatedly on the ground PvE missions and just keep charging right back in until they finally kill everything, along with whining about how the other faction is OP in ground PvP because they just die all the time.
I've got a few fleet mates who've done the same mistake as the OP, maxed out Space skills only and totally ignored the Ground skills. They try to do the STF and just don't understand why they can't do jack when they hit the ground...go figure huh?
Like Jedi, my Tac RA has ground and space skills set up nicely, all of the Cruiser skills up to T5 maxed, T5 has a few ranks. All space T1 and T2 weapon skills maxed, with T3 quantums maxed. All of the 3 Tactical Ship skills, the new ones, maxed. All of the ground combat skills maxed. And I've got Eng skills maxed in the areas that I need for my Cruiser and my Eng BOs. And my Tac RA is only RA2, so I'll end up maxing a few more skills before I'm done.
We get enough sp to get more then enough skills to be quite capable in space and ground at the same time, PvE or PvP. YOUR decision to max out only your space related skills is just that, your decision. And I've noticed it's a rather common one, both Fed and IKF, to ignore ground skills because 'they just aren't needed'. I'm guessing the people who make that statement are the ones who die repeatedly on the ground PvE missions and just keep charging right back in until they finally kill everything, along with whining about how the other faction is OP in ground PvP because they just die all the time.
I've got a few fleet mates who've done the same mistake as the OP, maxed out Space skills only and totally ignored the Ground skills. They try to do the STF and just don't understand why they can't do jack when they hit the ground...go figure huh?
If ground missions didn't have the difficulty rating of a Pokemon game I might see the point in putting skills in there...
There is no "best" in this game. It's all a balancing act. You can't be awesome in space and awesome on the ground. You'll either be awesome in space and crappy on the ground, awesome on the ground and crappy in space, or not quite awesome in both.
Take your pick.
I think that is the point of this thread.
Why should I have to CHOOSE one or the other in a game. I did not purchase this game with the idea that I had to pick between ground combat or space combat, only Fed or Klink.
Split the 2 skill trees so we can ALL play BOTH.
Edit: To those that think its a 'balancing' act, you are very short sighted. Your choices will soon be;
1. Have 2 max lvl toons, one for ground, one for space.
2. Have 1 max level toon, balanced, loose in ground and space combat to those that chose #1.
If you REALLY think that's a good plan, then you have issues.
I like how both game play areas cover one skill tree. This forces you to pick and choose. You can't be great at everything in game (in terms of maxing every skill). Do you want better ship combat or better ground?
Making us Jack of All Trades Masters of All will make this a very boring game.
I like how both game play areas cover one skill tree. This forces you to pick and choose. You can't be great at everything in game (in terms of maxing every skill). Do you want better ship combat or better ground?
Making us Jack of All Trades Masters of All will make this a very boring game.
I never said I wanted to be great at everything... I would like to be good at space and ground, however the current system makes you ok at both...
Thats the problem... If I want to be the best in space I have to sacrifice ground...
And that is your choice to make.
YOU, decided it was worth the sacrifice to specialize, and specialization has its own negatives, as you probably have noticed.
By the way, you wouldn't have happened to come here from WOW, would you?
Because that is what I have always considered the WoW mindset, ultra specialization to the point of being worthless in any other role but the one you speced for. It works in Wow, but not so well in other games, and it did take Wow several years to introduce dual specing.
I can rock space and ground, and I can do it without begging for more skill points
I like how both game play areas cover one skill tree. This forces you to pick and choose. You can't be great at everything in game (in terms of maxing every skill). Do you want better ship combat or better ground?
Making us Jack of All Trades Masters of All will make this a very boring game.
Have fun losing to those people that simply make 2 toons.
I agree the trees should be split but for a different reasons. One, is so they can add more diverse skills in either thee as we go along. Second so their could be more clarity on what the skills actually do and effect. Now, do I think they are going to split the trees? No. Overall, I would like the see the skill tree revamped. Not to be good in ground and space, but for more diversity in skills.
YOU, decided it was worth the sacrifice to specialize, and specialization has its own negatives, as you probably have noticed.
By the way, you wouldn't have happened to come here from WOW, would you?
Because that is what I have always considered the WoW mindset, ultra specialization to the point of being worthless in any other role but the one you speced for. It works in Wow, but not so well in other games, and it did take Wow several years to introduce dual specing.
I can rock space and ground, and I can do it without begging for more skill points
I have only ever played the 21 day Trial for wow. I come from EVE (No skillcap game)
If ground missions didn't have the difficulty rating of a Pokemon game I might see the point in putting skills in there...
If that's the case, why do you care?
Oh..right..because it's not the case, especially when you do the STFs or do a little Ground PvP or the Fleet Ground stuff like Big Dig and DS9.
Yeah..see...the Feds have no real excuse for ignoring ground skills, they get great examples of why they are important. IKF has no excuse because half the PvP mission are ground PvP along with the ground Fleet action stuff. People starting rethinking this whole 'ground skills are useless' thing when the first STF was opened up, while some of us were rethinking that as soon as they announced the STFs and made clear they'd have ground action that really required you to be skilled in ground combat. But I guess we're just the folks who paid attention and planned ahead a bit..or played IKF to BG and realized that without ground skills, you just die a LOT...repeatedly...and badly.
Space PvP is fun and all, but it's NOT the only PvP around, and IKF gets half their PvP missions as ground based PvP. Feds do quite a bit of ground combat in their PvE missions, including multiple Fleet Actions that are ground based. So, anyone who neglected their ground skills to ONLY master the space skills..that's your own fault. Specialization leads to being totally useless in anything outside of your limited little bailiwick.
I agree the trees should be split but for a different reasons. One, is so they can add more diverse skills in either thee as we go along. Second so their could be more clarity on what the skills actually do and effect. Now, do I think they are going to split the trees? No. Overall, I would like the see the skill tree revamped. Not to be good in ground and space, but for more diversity in skills.
Agreed, they need to reorganize the tree to make it easier to read and simplistic. I have gone through all my abilities and listed what skills I want, but it takes a lot of digging on some skills. Making the skill tree easier to read and use will be a big bonus.
Actual numbers might be nice, such as "Increasing this skill lowers the cooldown of X skills by Y" or some junk.
There is no "best" in this game. It's all a balancing act. You can't be awesome in space and awesome on the ground. You'll either be awesome in space and crappy on the ground, awesome on the ground and crappy in space, or not quite awesome in both.
Take your pick.
This.
Gimping your ground ability to add more points to space is your decision to do so and you need to live with that choice. If you are intentionally building your character this way, then you have the choice to skip any kind of ground mission as well and stick to space combat only.
Just about every other MMO on the market follows the same pattern... the player needs to make choices. If I choose to go all damage and no defense on my toons in CoX, I'll die a lot more than I would if I have a balance of the two.
Also, its not the skillpoints, its the player that makes the character effective or not.
Learn to play to your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses. That is part of the learning curve. The suggestion to split the trees makes no sense.
So, what you are saying is............you have no argument and are going to resort to insults.
Sorry the WoW troll didn't work for you, I know you were waiting.
Sorry If it came across as an insult, but I was saying that EVE from what I hear requires much dedication from the fan base, basically work when not at work.
Edit: I'm not sure about the WOW reference, but by level 16 I was bored senseless playing it.
Gimping your ground ability to add more points to space is your decision to do so and you need to live with that choice. If you are intentionally building your character this way, then you have the choice to skip any kind of ground mission as well and stick to space combat only.
Just about every other MMO on the market follows the same pattern... the player needs to make choices. If I choose to go all damage and no defense on my toons in CoX, I'll die a lot more than I would if I have a balance of the two.
Also, its not the skillpoints, its the player that makes the character effective or not.
Learn to play to your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses. That is part of the learning curve. The suggestion to split the trees makes no sense.
I wouldn't say it makes no sense. Currently, STO is almost like playing 2 games at once. You have a space simulator like game, and a traditional ground combat game. The reasoning for wanting split trees is because currently, you play what seems like 2 different games, but only 1 set of "upgrade" points to distribute.
Not saying I agree, but saying it makes not sense, to me, is a bit much.
see the thing is if you play other mmos, you dont get to Heal DPS and Tank...well I look at this the same way.
Except...STO does not work that way. A Tactical Officer is NEVER going to be a great healer here. This is like having 2 different 'battlegrounds', one fire, one frost. Except you cannot excel at both ever, unless you make 2 different toons.
Essentially we can only pick one 'battleground' to win, and should expect to lose the other because many, many, many people will simply make a toon for each 'battleground'.
Everyone has every right to choose to specialize in Space, Ground, or neither. They just have no right to complain that they get curbstomped in one or the other because of some crippling overspecialization desicions.
PvP's the same thing. They choose to do PvP in a certain area and excel at it and hence gimping themselves at the other. Since they know what they're getting into, they also don't have the right to complain that they're less effective in PvE situations that require both. If they choose to create two characters to specialize in both, then good for them. Saying that they have an unfair advantage over other PvPers because they've invested more time and effort in it is like saying that it's not fair that someone with the same build can beat you down in MMA just because they've dedicated more years to it that you have.
The skill tree IMO needs some changes such as how weapon tiering is done, maybe some readability QOL improvements, etc. Separate skill points isn't needed though and with several free respecs given to players, no one really has an excuse to being gimped unless they consciously do so for the fun of it.
Comments
My point is that why would I waste SP in ground skills... I would love to put SP into ground combat but it becomes a waste of my Space potential... This would allow two trees with two separate point systems so that we have ground XP and space XP...
Currently:
So if I put points into space I will be weak on the ground, if I put points into ground I will be weak in space... It shouldn't have to be this way.
You have to compromise. Even having put everything you have into Space you still haven't maxed every Space skill or have you.
I,ve gone half and half so I'm effective in both.
I'd have to see a screen of your skill tree before I could possibly agree. I have an RA5 Tac in a cruiser and, after my free respec, have all ground skills related to how I want to play him, and all space skills for how I want to play him.
My Captain 4 Sci/Sci will have all T1-T4 science skills, all ground skills related to healing, and all other space skills necessary to how I play him.
They need to take the current amount of skill points and require a min amount in seperate space and ground trees to advance in rank. Say you have to put at least 1.2k in to one or the other.
If they just add more skill points so you can take both, they might as well increase the level amounts and you still wouldnt put any into ground. You'd just be even more powerful in space.
How they didnt consider that no one in their right mind would take ground points if they were serious about space (cough PvP'ers) is beyond my ability to comprehend.
I hope you dont PvP against dedicated PvPer's then (in space) or that you dont hope to win a mostly space STF in the near future. You are severly gimping yourself compared to people that dont care about ground combat (there are a lot).
For comparison, i have EVERY pre Adm. sci skill to 9 except tractor beams, which gives me enough to go 6/9 in 2 efficency skills, and 6/9 in a performance skill and the 2 basic eng skills as 9/9 and 7/9. I also have enough to get all of the 3 new combat skils up to 7/9 take most of the relative ship skills and 7/9 all the team leader skills.
They need seperate trees. I would destroy you in space combat.
Thats the problem... If I want to be the good in space I have to sacrifice ground...
There is no "best" in this game. It's all a balancing act. You can't be awesome in space and awesome on the ground. You'll either be awesome in space and crappy on the ground, awesome on the ground and crappy in space, or not quite awesome in both.
Take your pick.
Oh so your saying you want to be the best in both...I get it now!
Nice, well I want my T4 ship to be as good as a T5 ship! and T3 skills for ENG/ SCI and Tac...why not right?
We get enough sp to get more then enough skills to be quite capable in space and ground at the same time, PvE or PvP. YOUR decision to max out only your space related skills is just that, your decision. And I've noticed it's a rather common one, both Fed and IKF, to ignore ground skills because 'they just aren't needed'. I'm guessing the people who make that statement are the ones who die repeatedly on the ground PvE missions and just keep charging right back in until they finally kill everything, along with whining about how the other faction is OP in ground PvP because they just die all the time.
I've got a few fleet mates who've done the same mistake as the OP, maxed out Space skills only and totally ignored the Ground skills. They try to do the STF and just don't understand why they can't do jack when they hit the ground...go figure huh?
If ground missions didn't have the difficulty rating of a Pokemon game I might see the point in putting skills in there...
I think that is the point of this thread.
Why should I have to CHOOSE one or the other in a game. I did not purchase this game with the idea that I had to pick between ground combat or space combat, only Fed or Klink.
Split the 2 skill trees so we can ALL play BOTH.
Edit: To those that think its a 'balancing' act, you are very short sighted. Your choices will soon be;
1. Have 2 max lvl toons, one for ground, one for space.
2. Have 1 max level toon, balanced, loose in ground and space combat to those that chose #1.
If you REALLY think that's a good plan, then you have issues.
I like how both game play areas cover one skill tree. This forces you to pick and choose. You can't be great at everything in game (in terms of maxing every skill). Do you want better ship combat or better ground?
Making us Jack of All Trades Masters of All will make this a very boring game.
I never said I wanted to be great at everything... I would like to be good at space and ground, however the current system makes you ok at both...
And that is your choice to make.
YOU, decided it was worth the sacrifice to specialize, and specialization has its own negatives, as you probably have noticed.
By the way, you wouldn't have happened to come here from WOW, would you?
Because that is what I have always considered the WoW mindset, ultra specialization to the point of being worthless in any other role but the one you speced for. It works in Wow, but not so well in other games, and it did take Wow several years to introduce dual specing.
I can rock space and ground, and I can do it without begging for more skill points
Have fun losing to those people that simply make 2 toons.
I have only ever played the 21 day Trial for wow. I come from EVE (No skillcap game)
Apparently not, and basically for someone with absolutely no life, from what I hear.
EVE sounds like work, when you're not at work.
If that's the case, why do you care?
Oh..right..because it's not the case, especially when you do the STFs or do a little Ground PvP or the Fleet Ground stuff like Big Dig and DS9.
Yeah..see...the Feds have no real excuse for ignoring ground skills, they get great examples of why they are important. IKF has no excuse because half the PvP mission are ground PvP along with the ground Fleet action stuff. People starting rethinking this whole 'ground skills are useless' thing when the first STF was opened up, while some of us were rethinking that as soon as they announced the STFs and made clear they'd have ground action that really required you to be skilled in ground combat. But I guess we're just the folks who paid attention and planned ahead a bit..or played IKF to BG and realized that without ground skills, you just die a LOT...repeatedly...and badly.
Space PvP is fun and all, but it's NOT the only PvP around, and IKF gets half their PvP missions as ground based PvP. Feds do quite a bit of ground combat in their PvE missions, including multiple Fleet Actions that are ground based. So, anyone who neglected their ground skills to ONLY master the space skills..that's your own fault. Specialization leads to being totally useless in anything outside of your limited little bailiwick.
Agreed, they need to reorganize the tree to make it easier to read and simplistic. I have gone through all my abilities and listed what skills I want, but it takes a lot of digging on some skills. Making the skill tree easier to read and use will be a big bonus.
Actual numbers might be nice, such as "Increasing this skill lowers the cooldown of X skills by Y" or some junk.
So, what you are saying is............you have no argument and are going to resort to insults.
Sorry the WoW troll didn't work for you, I know you were waiting.
This.
Gimping your ground ability to add more points to space is your decision to do so and you need to live with that choice. If you are intentionally building your character this way, then you have the choice to skip any kind of ground mission as well and stick to space combat only.
Just about every other MMO on the market follows the same pattern... the player needs to make choices. If I choose to go all damage and no defense on my toons in CoX, I'll die a lot more than I would if I have a balance of the two.
Also, its not the skillpoints, its the player that makes the character effective or not.
Learn to play to your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses. That is part of the learning curve. The suggestion to split the trees makes no sense.
Sorry If it came across as an insult, but I was saying that EVE from what I hear requires much dedication from the fan base, basically work when not at work.
Edit: I'm not sure about the WOW reference, but by level 16 I was bored senseless playing it.
I wouldn't say it makes no sense. Currently, STO is almost like playing 2 games at once. You have a space simulator like game, and a traditional ground combat game. The reasoning for wanting split trees is because currently, you play what seems like 2 different games, but only 1 set of "upgrade" points to distribute.
Not saying I agree, but saying it makes not sense, to me, is a bit much.
Except...STO does not work that way. A Tactical Officer is NEVER going to be a great healer here. This is like having 2 different 'battlegrounds', one fire, one frost. Except you cannot excel at both ever, unless you make 2 different toons.
Essentially we can only pick one 'battleground' to win, and should expect to lose the other because many, many, many people will simply make a toon for each 'battleground'.
PvP's the same thing. They choose to do PvP in a certain area and excel at it and hence gimping themselves at the other. Since they know what they're getting into, they also don't have the right to complain that they're less effective in PvE situations that require both. If they choose to create two characters to specialize in both, then good for them. Saying that they have an unfair advantage over other PvPers because they've invested more time and effort in it is like saying that it's not fair that someone with the same build can beat you down in MMA just because they've dedicated more years to it that you have.
The skill tree IMO needs some changes such as how weapon tiering is done, maybe some readability QOL improvements, etc. Separate skill points isn't needed though and with several free respecs given to players, no one really has an excuse to being gimped unless they consciously do so for the fun of it.