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Question Concerning Damage:

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
I remember reading that the reason for the changes to the EPS conduits was that the devs wanted to slow damage down, to give the battles a more tactical feel.

What I have noticed is that after this patch...the damage is INSANE. I am seeing on a regular basis over 1 million damage on pvp scoreboards now during a typical capture pvp round. Heck, I have hit a few of them myself, and I fly a cruiser.

But my shields are getting close to useless now. They are just gone... and my hull down to 50%. Where I never had been a RSP spammer before... I am now forced to just to stay in the fight.

Did I miss something?

If this damage get's much faster I am just going to have to lock my S-foils into attack position and begin my run on the Death Star.

Seriously... this is not Star Wars guys. SLOW IT DOWN.

Here is a clip of Starfleet Command 3. While not the best in the series, please note the speed of combat. This is how it SHOULD BE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCHci4OfOk
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I totally agree. I just got into tier 3 pvp today. The recent patch changes plus the increasing disparity of dps and health as you increase in level made it a huge difference from what I was used to in tier 2.

    This game plays as fast or faster than an fps now. That's just not right. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I think they repaired crits, with high accuracy you get the excess numbers to convert to crit severity. Most people fly like slugs, thus have low defence and basicaly give their enemies free crit severity, which in turn makes it look like the dmg is increased. The thing is, people were used to fly like slugs, because defense didnt seem so important. But now crits are fixed so defense is very noticable, but most people still fly like slugs.

    But thats just my observation :o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    My guess is those high scores your seeing is FBP spammers and with FBP3 you get insane scores. The next patch that is on trible they are reducing the feedback so allot of those "high" scores will drop. They are also making changes to SNB and VM that will help also because its not going to allow players to totally disable a ship and get "free" hull hits.

    Personally I have noticed a slight increase in dmg but nothing earth shatering. I do agree it is still a little fast paced (though I like it that way) they should bump up the sheilds and hulls slightly so the pace stays the same but people will survive longer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Stingray10 wrote: »
    My guess is those high scores your seeing is FBP spammers and with FBP3 you get insane scores. The next patch that is on trible they are reducing the feedback so allot of those "high" scores will drop. They are also making changes to SNB and VM that will help also because its not going to allow players to totally disable a ship and get "free" hull hits.

    Personally I have noticed a slight increase in dmg but nothing earth shatering. I do agree it is still a little fast paced (though I like it that way) they should bump up the sheilds and hulls slightly so the pace stays the same but people will survive longer.

    It's not just FBP causing the high damage. Crits are hitting for significantly earth shattering numbers now (quantums can two-shot people if one of them crits.).

    the dps has gotten rediculous.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Here is my opinion as to why the SFB games seem to more accurately reflect space battles in Star Trek:

    It seems to me that, in Star Trek, ships start out with a large amount of resources. These would be shields, hull, weapon charge, torpedoes, etc. As the battle progresses, ships expend these resources with minimal to no capability of resupplying them. Bridge Officer abilities (which are not as obvious in the shows, but can be seen if you know what to look for) provide a powerful bonus for a limited amount of time, and are generally only usable once or twice per encounter.

    The only times that ships blow up quickly, is when they sustain a massive amount of damage very quickly through the application of overwhelming force. This only happens with a suitably more powerful enemy is present, or multiple vessels focus fire on one target with coordinated fire. Other than these instances, starship battles seem to be maneuvering affairs, with each participant jockeying for an advantageous position, with ships diminishing resources through damage and expenditure of power/ammunition. You try to expose a weak point on your enemy by reducing their capacity in one area (say, the aft shields and/or weapons) while they try to do the same to you, all while trying to minimize your exposure of the vulnerable locations.


    Now, in STO, starships have very small resources. They expend these resources fast, and refill them almost equally fast. This applies to all defensive aspects of a starship. On the offensive side, we expend very few resources (exclusively weapon energy, which recharges relatively fast), and BOff powers enhance what we already have. The concept of a vulnerable arc does not exist, due to shield balance spamming. Bridge Officer powers are both strong, and recover very quickly, so the spamming of these powers dominates. In fact, all other aspects of space combat are overshadowed by Bridge Officer powers. While, technically, your vessels are capable without the BOff powers, just try playing without using any. You will quickly see that BOff powers don't provide an edge, or a way to turn the tide, but instead are the backbone of every encounter. Even in PvE.


    I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it does not accurately reflect what we have come to expect from space combat in Star Trek. Take it for what you will.


    NOTE: In TOS, there were a couple of encounters where ships would fire at each other from MASSIVE range and inflict lethal blows immediately. This was done due to FX budget constraints. Ironically, this was also probably a fairly accurate portrayal of how battles using Star Trek technology would really occur. Vessels with devastating levels of firepower would fire at each other from distances well beyond visual range, with the first one to suffer a solid blow being the one that gets destroyed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I am in full agreement. PvP as a Captain in a cruiser, my shields go down in 2 to 3 seconds if I do not have reverse shield polarity up. Hull then takes just a couple seconds more than and Im gone. Sure doesnt help that even at high speeds I cant move very well at all.

    With PvP 100% focused on DPS, it makes it very difficult for cruisers to even go into PvP. The whole "hull tanking" is utterly rubbish.

    I would prefer things to be slowed down somehow. I don't want nerfing on either side, but I'd surely enjoy something more tactical, thought out and such. I'd also like my cruiser to not fire a thousand beams a second, but rather one or two very powerful beams instead.

    Meh, ground combat is WAY slower than space combat... something should be done.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Pretty sure it's the crits + the new skills causing it.



    Incidentally, nothing should ever crit against a shield. A crit would be a "critical hit" meaning you hit something vital. Shields don't have vitals. You either hit them or you don't. A crit hit against a shield makes no sense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    DanaDark wrote: »
    ...

    Meh, ground combat is WAY slower than space combat... something should be done.

    Ironic that it is just the opposite in the shows, eh? :rolleyes:


    Slamz wrote:
    ...

    Incidentally, nothing should ever crit against a shield. A crit would be a "critical hit" meaning you hit something vital. Shields don't have vitals. You either hit them or you don't. A crit hit against a shield makes no sense.

    Good point. Bleed through, sure, but the shields themselves are an energy field of more or less equal dispersion in a given arc. Sadly, this would make the disparity between hull tanking and shield tanking even greater.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Meh, I just had kinda sorta wished/had the idea that I'd be incredibly slow to kill and would kill slowly while others would be faster to kill and kill quickly.

    So, by the time they got through my shields and were hitting my hull I'd be at the same point as them. If evenly specced and such.

    Too much of a dogfight... and when you fly an oil tanker into a dogfight... yeah lol.

    I personally would prefer for cruisers to be heavily armed and heavily defended while escorts were moderately armed and lightly defended. And escort going toe to toe shouldnt be a match for a cruiser...

    As a cruiser player, I'd rather enjoy being faced off with a BoP or two that HAD to use small hit and run tactics, decloaking quickly to do a strike and then cloaking.

    Kinda figured the escorts would be the closest to dogfighters while the cruisers be the massive ships that can take the beatings.

    Bah, Im rambling lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    It's not just FBP causing the high damage. Crits are hitting for significantly earth shattering numbers now (quantums can two-shot people if one of them crits.).

    the dps has gotten rediculous.

    My fleet leader tested FBP3 and laughed his TRIBBLE off. People would hit him with beam overload and would literally kill themselves he wouldnt fire a shot. Why do you think the BO's on exchanche that have it are going for up to 2mill + each.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    My first few encounters with FBP were devestating.

    Without any special beam attacks, one use of FBP brings my cruiser's hull down to 40% unless I stop firing.

    Really blows when I fire all weapons and then see it... and watch as my weapons continue to fire...

    Sigh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I agree, the damage is ridiculous now, too fast, too much. If escorts, BOPs, and raptors had trouble surviving before, they have no real hope now. It really doesn't feel like Star Trek at all when shields go from 100% to zero with basically nothing in between.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Definately.

    If they decide to up shield strength and remove crits from shields it'd help a lot.

    BUT PvP would take MUCH longer.... they'd definately need to up the rewards for it then.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'm personally more of the opinion that the huge DPS increases are largely due to the modification of cannon cooldowns.

    Hence my nickname for this update: Season of Cannons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Did I miss something?

    Yes. Imagine what gameplay would be like with all the current changes AND NO CHANGES to EPS consoles.

    That's the damage they slowed down. The even more insane damage that would have been present without the tweaks to EPS.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Yes. Imagine what gameplay would be like with all the current changes AND NO CHANGES to EPS consoles.

    That's the damage they slowed down. The even more insane damage that would have been present without the tweaks to EPS.

    WERE SAVED!! YAAAAAAY

    Tank goodness for that EPS nerf, otherwise I wouldn't even be able to move my mouse before I am dead.

    Seriously.... It seems like the old game "Paranoia" .. With the Doc-Bots with surgical chainsaws. They would fix a cut finger by cutting off an arm.

    Seems appropriate.
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