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Dual spec?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Anyone who has played WoW knows that blizzard came up with the awsome idea of dual spec.
I was thinking why not use that in 'STO?

That way we can have 2 specs we can change between at all times.

aka.

1. ground skills/support etc.
2. Space skills.

and we can then change between them and be good both on ground and in space etc.

That way it woul'nt be much issue with a skill cap, since we can change between specs at anytime.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    T-child wrote: »
    Anyone who has played WoW knows that blizzard came up with the awsome idea of dual spec.
    I was thinking why not use that in 'STO?

    That way we can have 2 specs we can change between at all times.

    aka.

    1. ground skills/support etc.
    2. Space skills.

    and we can then change between them and be good both on ground and in space etc.

    That way it woul'nt be much issue with a skill cap, since we can change between specs at anytime.

    I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that this limitation is exactly why there's currently a skill cap and adding a dual spec would completely negate that so it's probably 95% that it won't happen.

    If we had trees like in WoW where you basically either had to spec tanking or DPS, etc that are fairly universal roles I could see this, but that's not how things work here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I figure we might see something like this in the far future. After they sort the skill tree out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    No reason you can't train in both, you don't have to train every skill to 9, and one doesn't have to be a jack of all trades... Specialize, in specific ground and specific space skills.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    T-child wrote: »
    Anyone who has played WoW knows that blizzard came up with the awsome idea of dual spec.
    I was thinking why not use that in 'STO?

    That way we can have 2 specs we can change between at all times.

    aka.

    1. ground skills/support etc.
    2. Space skills.

    and we can then change between them and be good both on ground and in space etc.

    That way it woul'nt be much issue with a skill cap, since we can change between specs at anytime.

    I never thought of that. Thats a fantastic idea!!!!!

    It would work especially well in this game. Nice idea man. I think they'd have to flesh out the skills a little more first, but yea, I think this would be a fantastic way to go.

    It makes a lot of sense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I suggested the same thing many times. We do need a seperate skill pool for ground abiliies. Because nearly everyone puts the majority of their points into their Space Skills.

    In fact, I would love we had 1 specific Character Trait we could choose for Ground Traits, during character creation. Because many people choose Astrophysics, Warp Training, or even Operations to boost their space skills.


    Frankly, when we were revealed long ago that STO is going to have 3 Classes and 3 Subclasses each, I had the impression they were all going to be unique. Instead they all blurred together. So Cryptic has the opportunity to expand upon them and Medics are Medics, Scientists are Scientists. (After all, Spock wasn't a Medic and McCoy wasn't into Astrophysics).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'm not at RA level yet, though i've used character builders over the last couple of days and I seem to have enough skill points to do exactly what I need; sure I can't have 9/9 in every box, but I definitely have enough to cover all the necessary bases.

    Maybe some people are just wanting the 'I win' option?

    In Galaxies you had enough skill points to do maybe 2 1/2 professions, and there were many more than that Pre-CU.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tannagra wrote: »
    I'm not at RA level yet, though i've used character builders over the last couple of days and I seem to have enough skill points to do exactly what I need; sure I can't have 9/9 in every box, but I definitely have enough to cover all the necessary bases.

    Maybe some people are just wanting the 'I win' option?

    In Galaxies you had enough skill points to do maybe 2 1/2 professions, and there were many more than that Pre-CU.

    hehe you going to notice that you dont

    but to the OP brilliant idea dual spec would be awsome


    Boba
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I dont see a need for it as this game does not need you to spec a certain way in order to tank, dps, or heal. the idea of having it so you can max out every space skill or ground skill sounds... Cheap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I figure we might see something like this in the far future. After they sort the skill tree out.

    Same here. CoX has "Dual Builds" as well. Very nice feature indeed, especially for those who use them to great effect to switch between PvP and PvE builds.

    I wouldn't mind seeing this in STO as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Same here. CoX has "Dual Builds" as well. Very nice feature indeed, especially for those who use them to great effect to switch between PvP and PvE builds.

    I wouldn't mind seeing this in STO as well.

    I had two completely different builds on CoX for the same char, one for flight/tele and another for speed/leaping, fantastic system, loved it. Would love to see it on STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    T-child wrote: »
    Anyone who has played WoW knows that blizzard came up with the awsome idea of dual spec.
    I was thinking why not use that in 'STO?

    That way we can have 2 specs we can change between at all times.

    aka.

    1. ground skills/support etc.
    2. Space skills.

    and we can then change between them and be good both on ground and in space etc.

    That way it woul'nt be much issue with a skill cap, since we can change between specs at anytime.


    Wow, two threads on the same topic. I will simply quote myself from the other thread ( http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=144251 ):



    I agree on the fact that the skill system as it is needs an overhaul. A system that was designed without a point cap doesn't work too well if one is added at the last minute.


    However, I fail to see the link between this fact and the wish of a few "here today, gone tomorrow" kind of people to be able to change their spec whenever they please.


    You know, this bullcr** happened in WoW too. At first, one was able to have one talent build only, but could respec it whenever one wanted - however, the cost of respecing would rise everytime it was done up to a hurtful amount of in-game gold per respec. "People" complained.
    So, the max limit for these costs was set to 50 gold, with a chance to lower itself again over time if you don't respec for while. Still, "people" complained.
    Then, after a long time, a "dual spec" system was added, allowing players to pick two talent builds and switch between them whenever they wanted, at no extra cost safe for an "activation fee" of 1000 gold. And for a short time, "people" were happy.
    But then "people" started to complain again, asking for the possibility to get a "triple spec" - some of them went even further.


    Do you see where this is going? Now, you may wonder why I always put quotation marks around the word "people" - this is because those special few were by far not the majority, yet would keep complaining as if they were speaking for everyone.
    Blizzard catered partially to them because they saw that their game indeed was going into a direction on which it was almost required to have at least two talent builds readily available - then again, this also had something to do with the fact that there are hybrid classes who are only efficient (that is, useable) within a certain role if their selected talents fully supported that role.
    And indeed, for a warrior to be able to do loads of damage, he needed to be speced in one of two damage skill trees. For efficient tanking however the same warrior is required to spec into the tanking tree.


    Now, one could argue that something similar would apply to STO. This however is not really true for a number of reasons:

    - Unlike WoW, STO does not have the classic "tank, healer, dps" class distinctions. The classes and starships of STO resemble this pattern, but by far not as specialized and distinct as the classes in WoW are.

    - Except for maximizing your character's efficiency for the two STFs and maybe PvP, in STO one can pretty much skill anything and equip anything and still succeed in the game.

    - Even without "maximizing" your abilities for a given situation, unless one completely specs into a direction that he really doesn't even remotely use, everyone with practically any talent build can bring something to the table and contribute to a mission's success.



    To sum up my posting: be glad that we finally have the option to respec at all. And if you really feel the need to respec for practically each and every mission / engagement you want to play just be a big boy and pay the price for it, either with merrits or with real currency.

    However, for those special "people" that "don't get it", I recommend a different game that really allows and requires you to practically tinker with your skills at least once per day - STO is not that kind of game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Wow, two threads on the same topic. I will simply quote myself from the other thread ( http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=144251 ):


    To sum up my posting: be glad that we finally have the option to respec at all. And if you really feel the need to respec for practically each and every mission / engagement you want to play just be a big boy and pay the price for it, either with merrits or with real currency.

    However, for those special "people" that "don't get it", I recommend a different game that really allows and requires you to practically tinker with your skills at least once per day - STO is not that kind of game.

    yeah i see how we who support dual spec should find us a new game, now when they added 3 new skills 5400 sp and T3 , T4 ship specific skill now carry 25% over to next Tier another 5800 sp just in new ship skills alone sure dosent justify dual spec

    are you for real?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Bobafeit wrote:
    yeah i see how we who support dual spec should find us a new game, now when they added 3 new skills 5400 sp and T3 , T4 ship specific skill now carry 25% over to next Tier another 5800 sp just in new ship skills alone sure dosent justify dual spec

    are you for real?


    Yes, I am.

    And as I already mentioned, the fact that the skill system in itself needs an overhaul does not mean that lower respec costs and / or dual spec would be really "required" to have.

    Besides, I was able to include the new skills quite nicely into my respective ships and characters. One just needs to know into which direction one wants ones ship / character to go and then spec accordingly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    What we need are templates. Let them cost a lot of merits. I want to save my current skill setup, and build a new one so I can buy another type of ship. I am all skilled to fly my science ship, but I can't buy and setup a cruiser or an escort. I don't think it's really fair to have an all ground or all space build and use the templates to switch between. The Klingon's don't have many ground missions to do so they can go all space and have at least that advantage in PvP. I would be fine with a maximum of say 60% or 70% spent in ground or space. But I DO NOT want to grind through the whole game again with another character. I do have a Klingon character that I rolled but is still at level 1. That is fine to have a character per faction. Maybe I can see starting an Engineer to get to play with the cool toys on the ground.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Wow, two threads on the same topic. I will simply quote myself from the other thread ( http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=144251 ):



    I agree on the fact that the skill system as it is needs an overhaul. A system that was designed without a point cap doesn't work too well if one is added at the last minute.


    However, I fail to see the link between this fact and the wish of a few "here today, gone tomorrow" kind of people to be able to change their spec whenever they please.


    You know, this bullcr** happened in WoW too. At first, one was able to have one talent build only, but could respec it whenever one wanted - however, the cost of respecing would rise everytime it was done up to a hurtful amount of in-game gold per respec. "People" complained.
    So, the max limit for these costs was set to 50 gold, with a chance to lower itself again over time if you don't respec for while. Still, "people" complained.
    Then, after a long time, a "dual spec" system was added, allowing players to pick two talent builds and switch between them whenever they wanted, at no extra cost safe for an "activation fee" of 1000 gold. And for a short time, "people" were happy.
    But then "people" started to complain again, asking for the possibility to get a "triple spec" - some of them went even further.


    Do you see where this is going? Now, you may wonder why I always put quotation marks around the word "people" - this is because those special few were by far not the majority, yet would keep complaining as if they were speaking for everyone.
    Blizzard catered partially to them because they saw that their game indeed was going into a direction on which it was almost required to have at least two talent builds readily available - then again, this also had something to do with the fact that there are hybrid classes who are only efficient (that is, useable) within a certain role if their selected talents fully supported that role.
    And indeed, for a warrior to be able to do loads of damage, he needed to be speced in one of two damage skill trees. For efficient tanking however the same warrior is required to spec into the tanking tree.


    Now, one could argue that something similar would apply to STO. This however is not really true for a number of reasons:

    - Unlike WoW, STO does not have the classic "tank, healer, dps" class distinctions. The classes and starships of STO resemble this pattern, but by far not as specialized and distinct as the classes in WoW are.

    - Except for maximizing your character's efficiency for the two STFs and maybe PvP, in STO one can pretty much skill anything and equip anything and still succeed in the game.

    - Even without "maximizing" your abilities for a given situation, unless one completely specs into a direction that he really doesn't even remotely use, everyone with practically any talent build can bring something to the table and contribute to a mission's success.



    To sum up my posting: be glad that we finally have the option to respec at all. And if you really feel the need to respec for practically each and every mission / engagement you want to play just be a big boy and pay the price for it, either with merrits or with real currency.

    However, for those special "people" that "don't get it", I recommend a different game that really allows and requires you to practically tinker with your skills at least once per day - STO is not that kind of game.

    While I certainly have issues with the skill tree 'history' in STO. This post is essentially correct.

    I played a Paladin in wow, for raiding I was either Prot or Holy, depending on the night and the content. For arenas I was Ret. In any given week I could easily have to respec 8 or more times, not to play with talents or try things out mind you, but just to fill the role I needed to fill.

    STO isn't like that at all. There really isn't a great need for multiple specs in STO. Skill just dont make that great of an impact (especially on the ground game). When they revamp the skill trees (and they really have to do this) I expect free respecs for everyone to allow for the changes. Other than that though, I just dont see the need for more. Would you be marginally better with a dedicated ground build? Sure, but you arent gimped in any way by NOT having one. It isn't the same as wow at all (where if I was specced for Hoy I didnt have a chance in hell of tanking anything beyond some trash or 5-mans). Of course, I also had to manage multiple sets of gear too...
    wayneb64 wrote: »
    What we need are templates. Let them cost a lot of merits. I want to save my current skill setup, and build a new one so I can buy another type of ship. I am all skilled to fly my science ship, but I can't buy and setup a cruiser or an escort. I don't think it's really fair to have an all ground or all space build and use the templates to switch between. The Klingon's don't have many ground missions to do so they can go all space and have at least that advantage in PvP. I would be fine with a maximum of say 60% or 70% spent in ground or space. But I DO NOT want to grind through the whole game again with another character. I do have a Klingon character that I rolled but is still at level 1. That is fine to have a character per faction. Maybe I can see starting an Engineer to get to play with the cool toys on the ground.

    Now this is actually a good idea. Just a nice time saver for when you do respec.
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