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Tyken's Rift Qs.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2010 in PvP Gameplay
So I thought I'd give Tyken's rift a spin and see how it works in PVP. Pretty much my conclusion from last night is that it's not doing what I'm expecting it to do.

Science ship: I stacked a Tachyon dish, and 4 +spatial anomaly mk x consoles (+28 version).

My TR3 says the following when at 100 aux:

71dmg/sec
-125 power over 2 seconds
12 second duration

So... from that I'm thinking ok, someone could counter with a battery, or a ePower to X and get one subsystem back up but at the very least, it "should" take down 2 or 3 other subsystems right?

So what am I missing with this power in PVP? I popped it, rift shows up starts zapping people. I see they get slowed down yet at no time during the 12 seconds do they either; stop completely (zero engine power), shields drop (zero shield power) OR stop shooting (zero weapon power); I'm guessing it would be hard to tell the effect of zero aux.

Is there an easy counter to this ability that I'm missing, e.g. science team1? Is it bugged, or am I just not getting how this is supposed to work (like simply adding an EPS flow console counters the whole ability?).

I spent an hour or two PVPing last night trying it out and I think in that whole time I managed to knock one persons shields down using this (and of course they were back up a 7-10 seconds later, but that's sort of expected, at least they went down and "could" have been assist trained). There's a whole lot of snaring going on (and woo 70 damage per tick!), but I'm just not seeing the full effect of -125 power to every subsystem as expected.

I'm positive it's not something stupid like I'm coming in under full impulse with no aux power. I'm flying in slowly @10km with full aux power (100 set, plus some extra in yellow above 100) up specifically watching for the rift to shut down anyone in radius of effect and it's just not happening. Is the -125 power divided by the number of targets in range? e.g. 3 ships in radius, so each only receives 41 power drain (which is pretty useless)?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well I use this skill all the time on my BoP. I do not have it equipped on my science vessel however. Utilized correctly it is a great skill to force the enemy to burn science team/Engineering team etc that they would normally save for a little later. The better effect is that it is an AOE skill, so all vessels in its range experience the same effects of being slowed, loss of shields briefly.

    I do not know what your DPS lvl is, however in a science vessel I would recommend you use it in a supporting aspect. Try targeting a player that is engaged with lets say an escort. You slow them down and lower the shields allowing for more of the escorts damage to be applied to the direct hull and not shields. I am sure the escort would thank you for it.

    I love it when I use it, and hate it when it is used against me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    jfkgoodlos wrote:
    Well I use this skill all the time on my BoP. I do not have it equipped on my science vessel however. Utilized correctly it is a great skill to force the enemy to burn science team/Engineering team etc that they would normally save for a little later. The better effect is that it is an AOE skill, so all vessels in its range experience the same effects of being slowed, loss of shields briefly.

    I do not know what your DPS lvl is, however in a science vessel I would recommend you use it in a supporting aspect. Try targeting a player that is engaged with lets say an escort. You slow them down and lower the shields allowing for more of the escorts damage to be applied to the direct hull and not shields. I am sure the escort would thank you for it.

    I love it when I use it, and hate it when it is used against me.

    Definately running as a support science ship, so my DPS is irrelavent. From you're comment "slow them down and lower their shields" excatly what I want out of it, except it's NOT lowering thier shields even though it's supposed to apply a -125 power drain. In fact I would expect it to: stop them dead in space, drop their shields and stop their weapons from firing (the effect from setting all power levels to zero) for approx 10 seconds (takes 2 seconds to apply the -125 power). However it's not doing any of those three things which is what's confusing me...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Legatus wrote:
    Definately running as a support science ship, so my DPS is irrelavent. From you're comment "slow them down and lower their shields" excatly what I want out of it, except it's NOT lowering thier shields even though it's supposed to apply a -125 power drain. In fact I would expect it to: stop them dead in space, drop their shields and stop their weapons from firing (the effect from setting all power levels to zero) for approx 10 seconds (takes 2 seconds to apply the -125 power). However it's not doing any of those three things which is what's confusing me...


    Just asking. What level of Tyken's are you using? Also, it could be that after the patch it is bugged right now. I currently have TR III. Also, are you using it as an initial attack or later in the fight? Also, its effect can also be lost if are using a defensive buffing effect just as you attack.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It's relatively easy to move out of range of Tyken's Rift. I use it on my cruisers (so I'm usually running 60% aux) and it's decent situationally. It's usually best to pick someone that's not moving very quickly, usually an escort BoP who thinks it's a good idea to sit still and just unload cannons into something. It's not a full shutdown like VM (at least not at 60% aux), but it can be effective.

    Most players use EPS consoles, and the "Emergency Power to..." all increase the power of a system enough that your drain might not shut it down entirely. Then you have captain abilities which can raise power even higher. On my Engineer I can leave my power set to 50% to all subsystems, but because of abilities my shields and weapons are usually at 70% to 90% while engines and aux are around 60%.

    Also, having a system drained to 0% doesn't necessarily turn it off. Weapons drop and recharge very quickly, and they fire but with pathetic DPS instead of stopping. That's why I like to target escorts and BoPs -- they already balance their weapons and power closely enough that an extra turret can drop them to zero very quickly, so any power drain at all on them greatly reduces their DPS.

    Engines at 0% also doesn't stop you from maneuvering on thrusters. If your target want's to pop Evasive or Ramming Speed then they'll probably get out

    Against shields I mostly notice that regeneration just turns off. Shields don't drop all by themselves, but they go down fast if I'm also DPSing.

    Mostly Tyken's Rift looks bad because people are used to Science powers which are "I win buttons". It's not like that, it has an effect but it's actually kind of balanced.


    EDIT -- I wanted to add that the type of ship you are targetting makes a big difference. Cruisers are a really bad target for it. The Cruiser itself generates extra power, they are loaded with engineering stations which often generate more power, and the captains are often engineers so they generate even more power and can resist drains. Escorts and BoPs are usually the best target since *any* power loss quickly reduces their DPS and their survival abilities tend to be focussed on keeping shields up. An escort will often have Emergency Power to Weapons, but they use it on their first volley to boost DPS so it's likely to be on cooldown, and even if they have it available a 25% power cannon volley hurts a lot less than a 125% one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    jfkgoodlos wrote:
    Just asking. What level of Tyken's are you using? Also, it could be that after the patch it is bugged right now. I currently have TR III. Also, are you using it as an initial attack or later in the fight? Also, its effect can also be lost if are using a defensive buffing effect just as you attack.

    TR3:
    71dmg/sec
    -125 power over 2 seconds
    12 second duration

    I've tried it pretty much every way I could think: as an initial attack, after the fact assisting someone who's already got their target 1/2 dead, coupled with beam target shield rank 2, even trying to snare and finish off someone who just popped emergency maneuvers and flew away (I chased them with my own speed boost and used it when we both slowed down). I just can't seem to get peoples shields to drop with it which was my whole game plan with the ability.

    I'm hoping it's just bugged, otherwise that's a big waste of merits to respec, throw out the dish and consoles and respec the BO's (again).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    @inktomi19d: your experience is what I would expect from 60aux (or using TR1, or TR2). 60 aux seems to give you about half the power drain effect of maxed aux (i think it's 110 or 115? 100+bonus whatever that is).

    Rough guesses w/ full dish, consoles and skills:

    (guesses)@60aux
    TR3 = -50 power
    TR2 = -40 power
    TR1 = -30 power

    (real)@max aux:
    TR3 = -125 power
    TR2 = -100 power
    TR1 = -75 power

    As far as catching people and keeping them in rift, that's definitely not a problem. If they left the rift I could totally understand why they're not effected however, I see them snared in it and the red beam connecting them to the rift for the full duration - still very, very rarely do I see someones shields dropping (I do see it happen, just not enough to justify the heavy investment to get -125 power).

    *edit: hmm could be the cruiser thing like you mentioned. Maybe it's just that there's so many different ways to counter it that it's really not that good? Sci team, Eng team, ePower to X, batteries, drain resist, syphons, etc...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    To be honest, I didn't really pay attention last night as to its effects, I was to busy tweaking my BoP, as well as testing damage ratio's after the weapons power changes, then throw in respec, and everthing else. I didn't even notice. I will pay a little more attention tonight to see if there is any difference with TR.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I've gotten very mixed results with Tykens. I tried pairing Tykens 3 at max aux with a tractor beam to ensure they are in the rift for the duration, and it remained very hit or miss. Sometimes it would shut people down completely, enough that if I timed it all right, I could combine it with attack pattern beta, a tricobalt and insta kill BOPs or finish off other ships that were in otherwise good shape. But other times they just kind of sat there and took it, or their shields dropped only for a few moments before it jumped back up again.

    The conventional wisdom seems to be that EPS consoles heavily devalue Tykens because the actual power drain doesn't continue for the entire duration. It leeches power quickly, but it can start to recharge even if they are still in the rift. I decided to drop it myself. It can provide some really impressive, but really hard to achieve results when it works, but when it doesn't, its entirely pointless.

    On the receiving end, Tykens is rarely ever a problem for me because I usually run at full speed so I'm not in there long enough for it to matter. And even if I lose shields, I probably have an EPtS handy that will bring them up again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    The conventional wisdom seems to be that EPS consoles heavily devalue Tykens because the actual power drain doesn't continue for the entire duration. It leeches power quickly, but it can start to recharge even if they are still in the rift.

    Well since EPS consoles to use your term have been "heavily devalued", the drain of Tykens should be greater now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    cry SNB nerf... you got it patch..
    cry FBP nerf... you go it next patch.
    cry VM nerf... you got it next patch.

    now you cry about Rift?
    than about energy syphon?
    than about scramble + jamming sensoers?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Rastaban wrote:
    Well since EPS consoles to use your term have been "heavily devalued", the drain of Tykens should be greater now.

    It should, but it's not from what I can tell.
    My Tyken's drains 147 energy power (and that is with the still bugged +30 Spatial Anomaly Consoles), and it drops enemies' shield only very rarely in PVP. PVE it's awesome, especially against tactical cubes and such. But PVP, not so much. Sometimes I think I might run better with Target Shield Subsystem.

    With the globally high DPS at the moment, it's much better to just run at full weapon power and eat through their shields ...

    :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    TF is a hold with a drain effect at 125 it should shut down just about everything on a ship, however as it is a hold effect with drain could it be that something like APO which makes you immune to snares/roots etc also as a side effect makes players immune to the drain, which is linked to the snare. This would explain perhaps why you are not always seeing the result you expect from the drain component. you would need to look for the buff on players you see when you apply it to find out tho.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    most of the problem is that the drain only last 2 sec it drains 125 in 2 sec then the remaining 10 it doesnt do much and seeing almost every 1 is using esps yeah they were nerfed but not that much at all.

    my advice is to drop tykens rift and pick up target shields it works much better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tykens's Rift doesn't work worth shat because of the EPS conduit god console that renders all power concerns moot.

    Seriously, no decent player in this game doesn't stack EPS conduits on their ship because it basicly makes you immune to power drain. Cryptic screwed up and simply made it increase the speed at which systems gain power even when your total power levels are down rather than only boosting transfer rate.

    That means energy drain from weapons or energy draining attacks just get cancelled out by them.



    Also a MAJOR factor you have to keep in mind: Tyken's Rift splits the ammount drained between all targets it hits. This basicly means that the fact that it's an AoE skill is its own biggest weakness. (And Cryptic wonders why people think they suck at designing abilities) Make sure that when you use it you only hit one target!

    Also this means that Carriers are immune to Tyken's Rift because of their giant swarm of bullshat that just splits the total drain a dozenfold.
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